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Ninjalitude
2008-03-24, 05:49 PM
I was flipping through my copy of the Complete Scoundrel and i notice the spell Blockade. I read some more about it and realize that if you could drop that 2000 pound block of wood on to something, it would be the most effective spell ever at level 1. Here's what I came up with

By dropping that cube of wood onto a unsuspecting BBEG you could deal 10d6 damage (+1d6 per 10 feet fallen) with a first level spell. Of course this is still hard because you need to be in the position to drop it on him, but it still is an efficient way to deal massive damage at low levels.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-24, 05:54 PM
The rules generally do not allow you to teleport (or conjure) items or people in mid-air.

I think this is a fun suggestion and would certainly allow it myself, although I would cap the damage on grounds of it being a 1st-level spell (perhaps it is light wood, or a set of boards that fall apart, or something). And obviously a trick like this should allow a reflex save on the part of the victim.

AslanCross
2008-03-24, 05:55 PM
Well, it does need a scoundrelly set up before you can actually use it to deal damage. Since you can't cast it in midair (it has a range of 0 feet anyway), you still have to find yourself on higher ground above the BBEG and push it over the edge.

Reel On, Love
2008-03-24, 05:57 PM
Well, it does need a scoundrelly set up before you can actually use it to deal damage. Since you can't cast it in midair (it has a range of 0 feet anyway), you still have to find yourself on higher ground above the BBEG and push it over the edge.

Good luck pushing that 2000-pound block.

lesserarchangel
2008-03-24, 06:00 PM
You can do similarly large damage, although not quite at level 1, by invoking Summon Monster. Summon a griffin or a bison and have it fall on the target. I think you could get about 10d6/level.

Chronos
2008-03-24, 06:08 PM
For that matter, you could push a big boulder off of a cliff on someone without any magic at all.

AslanCross
2008-03-24, 06:08 PM
Good luck pushing that 2000-pound block.

Well, that too.


You can do similarly large damage, although not quite at level 1, by invoking Summon Monster. Summon a griffin or a bison and have it fall on the target. I think you could get about 10d6/level.

You can't summon an animal in an environment it wasn't meant for. You can't summon a bison or whale into thin air. You could summon a griffin, but I don't think the control you have over the animal is sufficient for you to order it to fall.

RTGoodman
2008-03-24, 06:10 PM
Good luck pushing that 2000-pound block.

Luck? Who needs that when you can have a Half-Orc?

You can push or drag something with a weight of up to 5x your maximum load (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/carryingAndExploration.html). Pushing a 2,000 block of wood would require a max load of 400 lbs, which is the max load for a character with 20 Str, easily achievable at first level if you have a race with a +2 or +4 Str (i.e., Half-Orc or Orc, to name a few).

And you can probably get a bonus for greasing up the area first, so you might could pull it off with a character with maybe 18 Str or so.


EDIT: I've got the solution! Summon an Air Elemental in the air above the target (since they can fly and they're made of freakin' air, that's gotta be their natural environment), and then use a metamagic rod to quicken a polymorph any object to make it into an Earth Elemental! Hey, it's not a 1st level tactic, but it works!

Overlord
2008-03-24, 06:25 PM
"OH MY GOD! A GIANT ROCK! IT'S A ROCK AND IT'S GIANT!"

...This sounds like a new challenge:

The Wile E. Coyote Challenge

Assuming pretty ideal conditions (a 200 foot tall narrow shaft, with a corridor opening into the top of the shaft for the PC to stand on, and the BBEG at the bottom of the shaft) what is the most amount of damage you can cause by dropping a weight onto somebody?

Let the Looney-ness begin.

Kurald Galain
2008-03-24, 06:41 PM
Assuming pretty ideal conditions (a 200 foot tall narrow shaft, with a corridor opening into the top of the shaft for the PC to stand on, and the BBEG at the bottom of the shaft) what is the most amount of damage you can cause by dropping a weight onto somebody?

Wouldn't that be won by default by the Mega-Hurler, or the conjurer of Anti-Osmium? :smallbiggrin:

Bag_of_Holding
2008-03-24, 06:41 PM
That sounds a lot like "I shoot a colossal bolt using my Launch Bolt spell. I deal 6d6 damage!" "But that's only a 0-level spell!" "It doesn't say I can't do that" "..."


Yeah, a lot like it.

Tengu
2008-03-24, 06:46 PM
While useless in combat on its own (apart from some very specific cases), this spell would be useful when combined with Levitate, which is only a second level spell - 10d6 damage at third level is still a whole lot.

Animefunkmaster
2008-03-24, 08:07 PM
Level 0: Summon Instrument (Pipe organ). Same concept.

The easiest way to deal massive damage at low levels is a goliath psywarrior with a bastardsword and various size increasers.

Overlord
2008-03-24, 08:33 PM
Wouldn't that be won by default by the Mega-Hurler, or the conjurer of Anti-Osmium? :smallbiggrin:

Not unless there's a "Hulking Dropper of Weights from Great Heights" prestige class. :smalltongue:

bugsysservant
2008-03-24, 08:41 PM
Good luck pushing that 2000-pound block.

So you cast Grease first. 10d6 for two first level spells is pretty good in my book.


Level 0: Summon Instrument (Pipe organ). Same concept.

I think it has to be hand held. And if you're strong enough to lift a pipe organ easily, why are you killing someone with a cantrip?

senrath
2008-03-24, 09:00 PM
I think it has to be hand held. And if you're strong enough to lift a pipe organ easily, why are you killing someone with a cantrip?

It does. And you would do that just to be funny.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-24, 10:55 PM
I, personally, am still trying to figure out how to slaughter with Prestidigitation. :smallbiggrin:

tyckspoon
2008-03-24, 11:01 PM
I, personally, am still trying to figure out how to slaughter with Prestidigitation. :smallbiggrin:

Re-flavor somebody's food to hide the taste of a lethal allergy.

Rutee
2008-03-24, 11:16 PM
That sounds a lot like "I shoot a colossal bolt using my Launch Bolt spell. I deal 6d6 damage!" "But that's only a 0-level spell!" "It doesn't say I can't do that" "..."


Yeah, a lot like it.

That's pretty fantastic. I support this.

Mewtarthio
2008-03-24, 11:40 PM
I, personally, am still trying to figure out how to slaughter with Prestidigitation. :smallbiggrin:

You are allowed to use prestidigitation to evoke a short burst of flame, just hot enough to light candles and such. Now, remember that scene in License to Kill where James Bond kills a guy with a faulty cigarette lighter?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-24, 11:55 PM
No, but I have a father who loves action movies and access to Wiki. The spellcasters just got a power boost.:smallbiggrin:

TheThan
2008-03-25, 12:38 AM
Easy way to get around it: floating disk, cast it, then cast the spell in question, then move the disk up one foot and let it wink outÖ

But the problem is that it weighs 2000 pounds, it doesnít say what happens when too much weight is put on it. if it winks out, your set, if it floats to the ground.. .well thatís not so great.

On second thought Iím not so sure itís a good idea, it could fall on you.

Aquillion
2008-03-25, 12:40 AM
Level 0: Summon Instrument (Pipe organ). Same concept.It doesn't have to appear in your hands, exactly, but sadly:
This spell summons one handheld musical instrument of your choice. This instrument appears in your hands or at your feet (your choice). The instrument is typical for its type. Only one instrument appears per casting, and it will play only for you. You canít summon an instrument too large to be held in two hands.
But there's a loophole here. Can you spot the loophole?

It doesn't say whose hands. Hey, yeah, there are two hands out there that can hold a 2000-ton solid lead pipe organ made to be played by Titans... somewhere... and it plainly says it can appear at my feet, overriding the usual rules that require that you put it on a surface.

As long as Bigby can handle it, say, you're gold. And you don't have to be able to fly if you have a high tolerance for pain and are only using this character for this one exploit: Just cut off your feet, hand them to a friend, and ready an action to cast 'summon instrument' when your friend throws them above the enemy you want to crush.

Icewalker
2008-03-25, 02:06 AM
See here is what you do: get on a ledge above BBEG

Cast spell so that the blockade is half over the edge.

Tilt.

Angelmaker
2008-03-25, 03:51 AM
...And you don't have to be able to fly if you have a high tolerance for pain and are only using this character for this one exploit: Just cut off your feet... And all the other stuff QFT - I am absolutely crying with delight over here. You gave me a really, really, really disturbing mental image. Well done! :smallbiggrin:

Tengu
2008-03-25, 07:36 AM
It doesn't have to appear in your hands, exactly, but sadly:
But there's a loophole here. Can you spot the loophole?

It doesn't say whose hands. Hey, yeah, there are two hands out there that can hold a 2000-ton solid lead pipe organ made to be played by Titans... somewhere... and it plainly says it can appear at my feet, overriding the usual rules that require that you put it on a surface.

As long as Bigby can handle it, say, you're gold. And you don't have to be able to fly if you have a high tolerance for pain and are only using this character for this one exploit: Just cut off your feet, hand them to a friend, and ready an action to cast 'summon instrument' when your friend throws them above the enemy you want to crush.

While amusing, if I were a DM I'd shove a d4 up the nose of the player who'd even suggest that. First the left nostril, then the right one.

hewhosaysfish
2008-03-25, 08:17 AM
While amusing, if I were a DM I'd shove a d4 up the nose of the player who'd even suggest that. First the left nostril, then the right one.

If he's willing to cut off his own feet, I for one would let him away with it.

Ninjalitude
2008-03-25, 08:40 AM
For that matter, you could push a big boulder off of a cliff on someone without any magic at all.

But can you summon boulders with a snap of your fingers :smalltongue:

MorkaisChosen
2008-03-25, 09:25 AM
Slippery Salve is a godsend. Even funnier if you manage to drop a block of wood with Universal Solvent or Sovereign Glue on the bottom on someone...

"ARGH! I'm crushed! Get it off getitoffgetitoff... Stuck? NOOOOOOO!"

Tyrael
2008-03-25, 10:43 AM
For that matter, you could push a big boulder off of a cliff on someone without any magic at all.

This message brought to you by Wile E. Coyote.

Craig1f
2008-03-25, 10:54 AM
If you want to do 10d6 damage at level 1, use Power Word Pain. It's from either Draconimicon, or Dragon Magic, or Races of Dragons, I forget which.

It basically does 1d6 damage per round, for a number of rounds based on the HP of the target. For a target with less than 50hp, it's 4d4 rounds, which is 10 round on average.

Ganurath
2008-03-25, 11:06 AM
I'll stick with a thin stone slab on a flying carpet to provide the base for a sculpted wall of stone, thank you. Rock falls, everything dies.

Aquillion
2008-03-25, 11:43 AM
If he's willing to cut off his own feet, I for one would let him away with it.Or you could be a troll wizard. Sure, the +5 LA sucks, but you only need one cantrip...

Also, the ultimate answer to this thread:

Power Word: Meep-Meep
Transmutation
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous

You may cast this spell only when threatened by imminent death from a falling object that was deliberately dropped, created, pushed, or otherwise used against you by a specific person. This spell allows you to move a distance equal to twice your base land speed in order to avoid it; additionally, it conjures a trampoline, which causes the object (irrespective of weight or distance fallen) to bounce upwards and land on the person who caused it to fall on you, doing full falling damage no matter where they are and how they defend themselves.

bugsysservant
2008-03-25, 11:57 AM
I REALLY did not need to hear the idea of how to weaponize somneone's severed, gangranous feet. Seriously. Just thought I should let you know that...

RTGoodman
2008-03-25, 12:31 PM
I REALLY did not need to hear the idea of how to weaponize somneone's severed, gangranous feet. Seriously. Just thought I should let you know that...

Hey, no one but you said anything about gangrene. Really, you could just sever the feet in combat and they'd be pretty fresh, and on top of that gentle repose is only what, a 2nd level Cleric spell? :smalltongue:

fireinthedust
2008-03-25, 01:07 PM
And you don't have to be able to fly if you have a high tolerance for pain and are only using this character for this one exploit: Just cut off your feet, hand them to a friend, and ready an action to cast 'summon instrument' when your friend throws them above the enemy you want to crush.

I smell a character with ECL here! Can we say "Troll"? Regenerates lost limbs, has the giant type (ergo not unreasonable to believe they have larger giants as friends), and with that ECL pulling down Spellcaster level you'd better believe the character needs *something* to make taking cantrips worth it!