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View Full Version : New Monk Fix/Variant - Focus on Stunning Fist



Prometheus
2008-03-26, 04:50 PM
What do you think about the following fixes?
1-Monk's may make any number of stunning fist attempts that they wish per round
2-Whenever a monk succeeds on a stunning attempt he may forgo stunning his opponent and a monk may instead receive another full attack against him (this does not stack with multiple successes; a monk cannot both stun his opponent and receive and additional full attack; this ability only works against creatures not immune to stunning)

#1: This would allow a Monk to almost ensure that he would land a stunning fist, but of course, at the cost of making him weaker against future encounters. Since part of the monk's weakness and spellcaster's strengths are the fact that there aren't that many encounters per day, this isn't a big concern. In any event, it would give an incentive for taking the Extra Smiting Feat (3 more/day).

#2a: This is mostly equivalent to stunning, since a stunned creature would receive a full attack from the monk anyway. There are a couple of minor pros and cons: a) stunned creatures receive -2 AC and are flatfooted b) all of the monk's allies and all the opponent's allies would receive another action if they creature is stunned c) a monk might prefer to use the time the creature would have spent stunned otherwise. Therefore, monks would only use this ability when they are outnumbered with few allies, which supports the image of a self sufficient monk (and give incentive for the Cleave feat). This also seems to be more realistic, someone who is quick and takes advantage of the opportunity for more attacks rather than someone who pummels a lifeless opponent.

#2b: Instead of giving monks the choice every time they attack, they could instead choose one of the two stunning attack styles when they receive the ability. In addition, the Fortitude save ordinarily required could be replaced by a Reflex save. Finally the thing about not working against opponents immune to stunning can probably be waved.

As you can see, #1 is the main mechanical fix, #2 is just to make monks more interesting. The two options can be used in any combination.

EDIT: Rule 2 modified for clarity

Kurald Galain
2008-03-27, 04:10 AM
As worded, the ability seems to do this, for a fifth level monk.

I charge, and use ability (2) to trade my attack for a full attack. Then I full attack, adding a stun to each of the two attacks. Then I replace both of those with full attacks, since I can do this as often per round as I like. Now I have four attacks. I have two stuns left, so I add those to the first two, and end up with six attacks in a round. A level-15 character would get about 30 attacks in the first round this way. This is probably not what you intended.

Talic
2008-03-27, 04:40 AM
Please, let's not spawn TWO concurrent monk threads. Suffice it to say that if we remove stunning from the stunning fist, then it's no longer stunning fist.

By making stunning fist function on things immune to stunning, such as:

Golems
Undead
Weapons
Brick Walls
Clouds
Jello
Doors
Potatoes
Candles
Books
Libraries
Armor
Water
Lasagna

We allow the monk, with a standard action, to full attack everything on a single attack. So, why not just call option 2(b) Pounce, plus an extra attack?

As for 1? DC 22 fort save vs Fort save bonus +19. Go ahead, make 4. Still won't help, and now that you've full attacked, let's let big monster eat you.

Prometheus
2008-03-27, 08:21 AM
Ahh I see there is a misunderstanding here. Rule 2 doesn't imply that a monk can get another full attack instead of a stunning attempt, but rather, whenever he succeeds on a "stunning" attempt. I've edited OP to reflect this.