Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs Llince

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 35: Grushnak vs. Llince

Map:http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z123/TheChilliGod/Giantitp/Arena4ii.gif

Extra notes: Houses are on average 20 feet high (just use that average figure all over the house), hay piles are up to 10 feet high against the walls. And, I don't care whether you're immune to sanctuary effects, you are not immune to the arena's sanctuary effect. Creatures summoned during the 1st round are also affected by the sanctuary effect.

XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

LtKeen - Grushnak (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=43672)
FlyMolo - Llince (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=43700)

All Combatants, please roll initiative.

[FlyMolo]

[roll0]

That's my initiative.

No new new purchases, purchases since last map were, lesee. Upgraded my xbow to mwk, replaced my powerstone, and bought a couple of crawling tats. All on my sheet for the world to see.

I'll start in X11, my psicrystal in W11.

[FlyMolo]

What I'm holding, subject to slight changes upon purchases(maybe): I'm holding the crystal and xbow. Crawling tats location subject to what he's holding.

[chilepepper]

[roll0]

That's my initiative.

No new new purchases, purchases since last map were, lesee. Upgraded my xbow to mwk, replaced my powerstone, and bought a couple of crawling tats. All on my sheet for the world to see.

I'll start in X11, my psicrystal in W11.

ref chilepepper
FlyMojo
Small matter of accounting... A Masterwork Hand Crossbow costs 400g. Masterwork adds 300g to the base price.

[FlyMolo]

ref chilepepper
FlyMojo
Small matter of accounting... A Masterwork Hand Crossbow costs 400g. Masterwork adds 300g to the base price.

Are you serious? That's expensive. Could have sworn it was 150...Nope, you're right. 300. So if I don't do that (because I can't) Then I have 209 gp left over. I'll just save it.

[LtKeen]

Nothing new bought, starting in D10.
Inititiative [roll0]

[FlyMolo]

I move to Q13, crystal in R13. Manifest from my powerstone, sharing with my crystal, then drop it. Xbow in both hands. Crystal taps one his tattoos, which drops off and runs to G11 this turn. It's the tattoo of concussion, which doesn't violate the sanctuary effect. Not a direct attack. In any case, no attacking going on this turn.

statsAc 19, health 5/5, pp 8/8, Q13
Crystal: AC 20. health 13/13 all powers ready to use, R13

Your go.

[LtKeen]

I move, disappearing behind B6

To refs: I move to E3

that'd make it your turn

[FlyMolo]

Assuming you stopped after moving out of sight to cast something, the tattoo scrabbles along after you. I see it reach B7, and then it vanishes off behind the building. If it reaches you, it gloms on and tries to hit you with it's touch attack.[roll0]. If it hits, the power affects you. If you made a double-move of it, it pursues you around the building, reaching C2. I can't see what it sees, or control it, but that's what it does. It's not very smart.

And: I loudly admonish my psicrystal for activating that tattoo. Repeatedly, making sure my opponent can hear me.

As for me, Single move to M/N 9, Ready an action to manifest Psionic Charm on LoS, my crystal readies an action to manifest energy ray (fire), triggered on telepathic communique from me/failed Psionic Charm.

stats Me: M9 AC 19, health 5/5, pp 8/8
Crystal:Crystal: AC 20. health 13/13 all powers ready to use, N9.

Done. Ref check needed, but take your actions.

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

As a matter of clarity fo Grushnak, Llince did not upgrade his crossbow to masterwork. (it was spoilered)

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

LtKeen
You have 30' movement. Starting in D10-C9-B8-7-6-B5 is 30'. Then your second move goes B5-B4-B3-C3, 15' so far. Entering a square of hay costs 4 squares of movement, since you only have 15' left, you end your movement in C3.

edit: You see the tattoo come up to C2, no attack

refs Crawling tattoos have to enter the opponents square to attack, and that provokes AoO so here's the stats of the tattoo for when that happens. AC18, HP10, hardness 5, speed 30', att =nmanifester's level + key ability mod

[LtKeen]

To refs: I take a 5 foot step to B3. Provoking an attack of opportunity if it is Small or Medium sized, I fire at the tattoo with my crossbow.
attack roll: [roll0]
damage if it hits: [roll1]

If it's Small or Medium, I just provoked an attack of opportunity
That'd make it your turn

[FlyMolo]

ref chilepepper

As a matter of clarity fo Grushnak, Llince did not upgrade his crossbow to masterwork. (it was spoilered)

Eeep. Sorry. :smallredface: More clarity in future. Promise.

Whatever turn it is:
[roll]1d20+5[roll]AC 16.
I'm not totally sure Tattoos can take AoO's. Actually, it's a moot point. The thing is diminutive, or tiny. If you're close enough to provoke an AoO from it, it probably nabs you on this turn anyways. So use that attack roll. [roll0] damage on a hit.

Actions: single move to J4, J5. Same readied action as previous. If LoS is established on my turn, just use the powers as specified.

[stats]
Me: J4 AC 19, health 5/5, pp 8/8
Crystal:Crystal: AC 20. health 13/13 all powers ready to use, J5.

Done, on LoS check. Doesn't really affect my actions, though.

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

flymoto, refsRefs are going to act on behalf of the tattoo. I'm guessing it will act with one purpose in mind, attacking. If you'd like to dispute that, call for a high ref.

edit: Also, no LoS

LtKeen, refsThe tattoo is indeed too small to threaten you as you move. Your arrow hits it. It moves into your square, which would normally provoke an AoO, but it looks like you are only armed with a bow. That means you don't threaten. If I'm wrong, please take your attack of opportunity.

Once in your square, it attacks. [roll0] touch attack. I'll edit this post once I check that roll. Looks like that's a miss.

Other than the tattoo in your square, you have no LoS.

refs onlyThe tattoo was hit, and after hardness was dealt 5 points of damage.
AC 18
HP 5/10
Hardness 5
Speed 30'
Att +5
2.5' reach
Location: B3

The tattoo has acted. It is now LtKeen's turn.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

@refs:Note that while the tattoo is too small to threaten on the opponent's last move, it does threaten its own square. If Ltkeen takes movement that would normally provoke on his turn, the tattoo will get an AoO, if it's provoked from the square Ltkeen starts in.

Current actions unaffected, clarification on refs only information. Turn proceeds in accordance with above instructions by Chile.

[LtKeen]

Tor refs: well, since it's diminuitive... wish I was aware of that sooner, I could've made a move action last turn :smallsigh:
anywho, 5 ft step to B2 and another attack from my crossbow
Attack roll: [roll0]
damage if it hits: [roll1]
As I take these actions, not being the most intelligent person in the world, I shout "I HATE SPIDERS!" from the northwest direction

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

@LtKeen:You hit it, and damage it a bit more. It's still kickin' tho. On your opponent's turn, the tattoo will take a 5foot step into your square and attack again.

[roll0]
Will deal with effects if it hits.

No LOS, aside from crawlie thing.

@Flymolo:No LoS. You did clearly hear his yell from a mostly western direction.

@refs:The tattoo was hit, and after hardness was dealt 2 points of damage.
AC 18
HP 3/10
Hardness 5
Speed 30'
Att +5
2.5' reach
Location: B3

Yell DC to hear is -10. Adjusted for 60 feet of distance, going around walls, and DC is -4. Fly could roll a 0 and hear.

[FlyMolo]

Single move action to E1(me) F1(crystal). Same readied actions as before, barring ref fiat that Charm won't work due to allies attacking. That shouldn't be a problem, though. If LoS is established on turn, don't bother readying, just manifest.

Done, pending refcheck. Lemme go fetch one.

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

LoS is established.

Llince is in E1, psisrystal is in F1, tattoo and Grushnak are in B2.

It is still Llince's turn.

LlinceLemme see if I can find a ruling on charm, I think I remember a specific ruling.

Be right back.

[chilepepper]

ref chilepepper

refsSo, we're talking about
Charm, SRD
This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.

Alright, here's the previous ruling.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58639

Specifically

Well, Blaize hasn't actually done anything threatening all match. If an offensive spell was cast, or if Blaize had a weapon drawn and was waving it in front of Frizz's face, that would definitely count. But just their circumstances shouldn't be a factor.

Llince has a loaded crossbow in both hands, the psicrystal (whom activated the tattoo that is attacking Grush) is right by his side. Separately, they might not be enough, but together I'd call it threatening. The bow is loaded and the psicrystal indirectly attacked and currently appears to be an ally. Unless a High Ref wants to contradict, we'll go with that.

The thing is, I don't see anywhere in the rules that Llince would know Grush is getting the +5 to the save, so I assume that information is withheld. Also, it has been previously stated that refs are NOT to help with tactics, so I also assume we shouldn't point Llince to the previous match. I don't know what, if any, information should be passed to him on the ruling.

I'm going to recommend a hold on this match so a high ref review the above. FlyMoto, if you get here before a high ref and you want to continue, go ahead.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

@Refs
Per previous precedent set by the Chilli god, having a loaded weapon drawn and readied should qualify for the +5 bonus. Further, unlike the standard activation of charm, the spell in question here is being activated by an attack. If flymolo asked concerning the modifier, I'd provide that information. As is, he asked whether or not Charm can work. I'm answering that question.

@FlymoloThere is nothing in the text of charm person that prevents it from working due to your or allied attacks prior to the casting. Note that the spell does end if you or any ally performs an offensive action AFTER the casting.

[LtKeen]

Not sure exactly what is going on, besides reestablished LoS.
I do have something to note though. FlyMolo, shouldn't your base will save be 2 instead of 0, since you're a level 1 Psion? (skimmed your sheet for the first time today)

[chilepepper]

Single move action to E1(me) F1(crystal). Same readied actions as before, barring ref fiat that Charm won't work due to allies attacking. That shouldn't be a problem, though. If LoS is established on turn, don't bother readying, just manifest.

It is still FlyMolo's turn.

[FlyMolo]

Alrighty then. I look as friendly as possible, shout "I got it, dude! Sorry about earlier. He's a little impulsive." and manifest something. Displays happen. Roll a will save, DC 15.

My crystal readies an action to tap his entangling ectoplasm tattoo. ( I must resist the urge to say tat.) Activated on a failed charm ONLY.

[LtKeen]

oh snap, a will save.
Will [roll0]
Curse you, Twelve Gods! :smallannoyed:

[Talic]

Grushnak is Charmed per the Charm person spell. It is Grushnak's turn.

[FlyMolo]

refs The tattoo doesn't count as an ally of mine, does it? Do I have any control over it? I'd like it to stop what it's doing now, really.

I yell to Grushnak that the spider-tat is right behind him, so he should get behind me, and that I'll help him kill it. I also order my psicrystal to look nonthreatening.

((Speaking, and telepathic communication, are free actions I can take on other peoples turn, right?))

[LtKeen]

"I don't want this little bugger to escape, so I'll go to block off the other path."
I move to A4 and take another shot at it, provoking an AoO from it.
Attack roll: [roll0]
Damage if it hits: [roll1]


On a side note, I can't really run behind you from where you're positioned. Hay and your psicrystal are in the way :smallwink:

[LtKeen]

ooh, a critical
Rolling to confirm:
1d20+10

[LtKeen]

jeez forums and their 60 second rule ~_~
[roll0]
that would make it 24 damage, if it's vulnerable to crits.

[FlyMolo]

I don't believe so. It's unclear, because they are subject to other things constructs are invulnerable to. It takes 3 damage, at least. How much health does it have now?

[Talic]

Three damage will be enough to incapacitate it. However, prior to that we need to resolve the AoO issue. Will rule it when I get back to books.

[FlyMolo]

Three damage will be enough to incapacitate it. However, prior to that we need to resolve the AoO issue. Will rule it when I get back to books.

I think it does take the AoO. I don't know if that's in my best interest, one way or another, but it's in his square, threatening him. Then he leaves, provoking an AoO.

Not a ref, tho.

[Talic]

@Flymolo:If it takes the AoO, that could break the charm. If you can order it to take no offensive actions, it wouldn't. If you can't, it would take the AoO. That's why I need to get to books, to read rules for Psionic Tattoos. If it's a construct, and you created it, it could be construed as an "ally" of you, that's the issue. Will have an answer for you in 2 hours.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

After reviewing source, the Crawling Tattoo does allow wielder to claim it, However, other than that, the wielder has no control over it.

Grushnak moves out of B2, moving to A4 (10 foot move), provoking an AoO. (The tattoo does threaten its own square). The tattoo must take that AoO.

Flymolo, you may roll the attack for the crystal, as you have LOS.

2nd part. Prior to the crossbow attack. Does the AoO break Charm? According to Charm:
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell.

Now, the psicrystal activated the tattoo, and that is what's attacking him. The tattoo might not be considered an ally (Llince has stated his intent to protect Grushnak from the tattoo), however, the item that activated the tattoo certainly is.

I hate precedent-setting rulings. I really do. I'd like a little more opinion before a ruling is made. Either way, Flymolo, make the AoO attack for the tattoo. Whether charm stays or not is in question though, so this match will be on pause immediately following that attack.

[Morbius]

ref Morbius

... pretend this is not here...

[FlyMolo]

[roll0] AC something. 16?

[roll1] damage

It says apparent allies, doesn't it? So far I've stated explicitly that I don't want the tattoo to attack him anymore. So whether it's an ally is not in question, it's whether its an apparent ally.

Anyways, match paused.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

See, but there, if we rule that the tattoo, and not the creature that activated it, is the "ally", then it would be, at the very least, a bluff check, opposed by sense motive, to convince your opponent of something that's not true.

That seems the simplest course, however, and, in absence of other opinions, that's going to be the one I go with.

EDIT: Llince, I need a bluff check from you.
Grushnak, I need a sense motive.

[LtKeen]

Sense Motive check [roll0]

[FlyMolo]

The ironic part is, it's not doing what I want, it's not listening to me, and its not even acting in my best interests.

Even IC.

[roll0]

I knew I shouldn't have dumped Cha.

[FlyMolo]

Even more interestingly, does this count as a failed charm for purposes of activating my psicrystals readied action?:smallsigh:

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

The bluff was for "Sorry about earlier. He's a little impulsive.". You were giving the impression that the crystal was acting against your best interests when it launched its attack, and that the attack was a misunderstanding, rather than intended.

The charm spell breaks, based on what Grushnak can only perceive as an intentional attack, by something launched from an ally.

I'll get followup on the readied action in a minute.

@Refs:
Activated on a failed charm ONLY.The terms are considerably more vague than "on a failed save" or, "if he's not successfully charmed".

Grr, this match has too many non-clear-cut rulings.

[Mavian]

@Talic Refs

The charm was successful. Although I didn't check to see if the in combat +5 modifer was added to the save. The readied action should only trigger if the charm had failed, which it did not. It was removed after the fact.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

@Refs:Combat +5 was included.

I think we're in agreement here, a charm that successfully saves, and is subsequently broken by an attack is not considered to have failed.

Play continues from the point the charm was broken, which was the missed attack by the tattoo.

Grushnak may modify the remainder of the turn based on the broken charm.

[LtKeen]

Well, revised round based on the fact that is was a failed bluff. crawling tattoo isn't incapacitated.
Grushnak moves instead to B4, enraged. "You think apologies and false friendships work in an arena match? Think again!" He fires a bolt at Llince.
Attack roll: [roll0]
Damage if it hits:[roll1]

The failed bluff was before the charm, and the charm ending was after the bluff. How to verbally react to that? :smallconfused:

[FlyMolo]

I assume we're using the first rolls? In which case that misses. Do I get cover? Nevermind, it doesn't matter.

I'm in E1, Psicrystal in F1. We move to B2/B3. I'm in B3. I manifest something. Roll a DC 15 will save Or take[roll0] damage. Mind Thrust, baybee! My tattoo presses a hand to his cheek, and something small and dark drops off and runs at you, skittering down the legs of my psicrystal and right up to you, lunging with inky jaws at your feet. But missing horribly. (yup, another one.) [roll1]AC 16. If it hits, stuff happens. But it didn't. Lackaday.

[stats] Full health, pp6/8, AC 19 for me, AC 20 all powers undischarged crystal. No tattoos left on any of us.

[LtKeen]

Will Save [roll0]
If that doesn't hinder me, I'll take a 5 foot step back towards B5 and shoot again at Llince.
Attack Roll: [roll1]
Damage if it hits: [roll2]

[FlyMolo]

I am glad I took Enhanced Resilience. I burn 2 pp to take that damage down to 2, then take it.

Waitaminute. Don't I get soft cover? My psicrystal is in the way, after all. 20 or less and it misses and I don't take the damage. Yay. I probably will, so we'll roll with that for now.

The tattoo runs up to you and swings at you. [roll1] AC 16 And you're entangled.

I manifest something. Make another DC 15 Will save or take [roll2] damage. Work this time plz!

My psicrystal manifests something painful too. [roll3]AC 16, normally, but you take a penalty to dex for being entangled now, right? So what, 14?[roll4]

3/5 health, pp3/8, AC 19+4(cover)=23 for me, AC 20 one fire ray used for crystal. No tattoos left on any of us.

[FlyMolo]

So I'm out some pp, take some(2) damage, you take some (4)damage and have to roll another will save. You're entangled. Okay. I'm all straight now.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Soft cover and concealment are two different things.


Soft Cover

Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check.


The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.

Correct on the entanglement. Opponent needs to make a will save for the effect listed. For future reference, please label the actions you take. It makes it much easier to sort each turn out.

[LtKeen]

You would have no reason to get soft cover. You were in B3(check your post yesterday), I was in B4. I stepped back to B5 and attacked.

Your psicrystal isn't in the way because you said you both moved to B2/B3, and you were in B3, placing your psicrystal in the square behind you (B2)

Even if you did get soft cover, it gives a +4 bonus to AC, not a percentile chance of it hitting the giver of cover. In that circumstance, your current AC would have to rise to 25, or you'd need to spend more power points to prevent incapacitation

[LtKeen]

Will save: [roll0]

If that doesn't hinder me, I'll move back to B5, and make another attack
Attack Roll: [roll1]
Damage if it Hits: [roll2]

to refs: current hp: 4/11

[LtKeen]

I critted again?
Rolling to confirm: [roll0]
If so, that's 12 damage

[FlyMolo]

Oh bugger! I totally messed up my positions! In theory I was supposed to be behind the psicrystal, in order to gain cover. So much for that, right? :smallannoyed: And the soft cover thing(annoyingly, you rolled well enough to hit me anyway. I'm not very good at this, am I?

Ah well. I blow a power point (immediate) to take 2 damage instead of 6. I manifest again(standard). Roll another will save, DC 15. Fail this time, if you would be so good. [roll0]damage

I head for the hills. I move out of sight behind the barn (move), ending at G1 I maintain telepathic contact(range 1 mile, I think?). My psicrystal is under orders to tell me anything it sees.

My psicrystal manifests again(standard), then moves to A5. [roll1]AC 14[roll2]

Stats:Me: AC 19, pp 1/8, health 1/5, Location G1
Psicrystal: AC 20, both rays used, health 13/13, location A5

[FlyMolo]

Bah. He misses. Will save failure will save failure will save failure will save failure will save failure

In other news, how many crits have you rolled today?

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Another point of note. x2 crit does not equal "double the damage". It means, "roll the weapon's damage again".

In other words, it would be
2d6+8, not (1d6+4)x2.

[LtKeen]

apparently because of a typo I DIDN'T move last turn, though I did fire a ranged weapon. anywho, if neither my Will save nor anything else hinders me, I'll move to C3, and fire upon Llince if I see him, if not, the tattoo that keeps hitting me for damage.

Will Save: [roll0]

Attack Roll: [roll1]
Damage if it Hits: [roll2]
Subtract 1 to the to hit and damage if my target is further than 30 feet away.

This time I barely make the Will save, but still somehow make it nonetheless. Do these forum rollers love me or what? :smallconfused:

[FlyMolo]

Okay, you definitely see me. I'm in G1. Cover rulings need to be ruled(not my forte, but I'm almost nearly sure I get cover.) And you provoke an AoO from my psicrystal. [roll0]AC No idea. [roll1] damage, and make a DC 11 reflex save or catch on fire.

I'll get a ref for that cover silliness.

[FlyMolo]

And I forgot the fire damage. Typical. [roll0]

Your AC can't be higher than 18, cuz that's what it was earlier. So you take 5 damage at least. How many hitpoints do you have left?

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Yes, Llince in G1 has cover from Grushnak in C3. +4 AC is the relevant bonus.

[FlyMolo]

Whew. I don't die from that arrow, lucky me.

Now, does Grushnak die from fire and beatings administered by my familiar?

I recall 5 damage now, 4 from the energy ray, and I don't remember how much the first crawling tat did. Edit. Found it, 3. So that adds to 12? And Grushnak has 11 hp total?

So it appears my hide was saved by my flaming psicrystal. Whew. Charcoal briquettes in his future.

Good game. That was really really close there. If your luck had held out, I'd be pincushioned.

[LtKeen]

The 5 damage from the AoO was enough to finish me off, I only had 4 left, so I guess that means I automatically fail my reflex saves since that'd put me at -1?

Either way, Well fought. :smallsmile:

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Llince is the winner, collect your stuff, and take that xp and gold in the corner on your way out.