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Bandededed
2008-03-28, 06:53 PM
Stone to Flesh, as per SRD

This spell restores a petrified creature to its normal state, restoring life and goods. The creature must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to survive the process. Any petrified creature, regardless of size, can be restored.

The spell also can convert a mass of stone into a fleshy substance. Such flesh is inert and lacking a vital life force unless a life force or magical energy is available. (For example, this spell would turn a stone golem into a flesh golem, but an ordinary statue would become a corpse.) You can affect an object that fits within a cylinder from 1 foot to 3 feet in diameter and up to 10 feet long or a cylinder of up to those dimensions in a larger mass of stone.
Emphasis mine.

So, is creating a corpse from a statue then animating it as an undead being an evil act? My moral compass fails me!

If not, could a good necromancer exist viably? Creating fake corpses and animating them for a good cause, instead of killing the innocent peasants?

Or, could you create life from nothing using this spell in conjunction with wish. Make a statue, Stone to flesh statue to create corpse, make soul with wish, infuse with raise dead or similar magic?

Collin152
2008-03-28, 07:59 PM
Well, then again, it also says it can turn a stone golem nto a flesh golem, which is simply not the case.
So, who knows?

Starbuck_II
2008-03-28, 08:01 PM
Well, then again, it also says it can turn a stone golem nto a flesh golem, which is simply not the case.
So, who knows?

Wait, why can't it turn a stone golem to a flesh golem?

Icewalker
2008-03-28, 08:02 PM
Because they are totally different in structure, not just material. At least, that's what I'd rule as a DM.

Huh....a benevolent necromancer sculptor...that is an awesome idea. I want to use that in my campaign world now.

SadisticFishing
2008-03-28, 08:05 PM
Actually, making the corpses isn't the only evil part, creating semi-permanent negative energy is horribly evil. Animate Dead is an evil spell, and it only takes 7 of those to banish you to hell permanently when you die.

Dode
2008-03-28, 08:07 PM
Because they are totally different in structure, not just material. At least, that's what I'd rule as a DM.
Oh yes, we can't possibly neglect the logical implications of interior anatomical correspondance in our magical Stone to Flesh spell.

Glad you're not my DM.

Aquillion
2008-03-28, 08:10 PM
Oh yes, we can't possibly neglect the logical implications of interior anatomical correspondance in our magical Stone to Flesh spell.

Glad you're not my DM.
Actually, I suspect Collin was referring to the fact that Stone to Flesh is "SR: Yes", which means it does nothing to a Stone Golem at all because they (in effect) always resist it.

However, the part on their spell immunity says:

Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise notedSo perhaps this counts as a case where it is "otherwise noted". (Disintegrate affects them despite being "SR: Yes", too, though the effect is different than usual -- slowing and slightly damaging them with no save instead of destroying them.)

On the other hand, the fact that it's just a parenthetical remark in "Stone to Flesh" given as a 'for example...' suggests that what actually happened is that the person who wrote that section forgot that golems are immune to magic.

Collin152
2008-03-28, 08:11 PM
Wait, why can't it turn a stone golem to a flesh golem?


A stone to flesh spell does not actually change the golem’s structure but negates its damage reduction and immunity to magic for 1 full round.
Check and mate.


Edit: Though you could conceivably cast it while its immunity to magic is down, that's a long shot and two castings of the same spell.

Aquillion
2008-03-28, 08:17 PM
Check and mate.


Edit: Though you could conceivably cast it while its immunity to magic is down, that's a long shot and two castings of the same spell....WotC sucks. Or at least, their proofreaders do. Sure, I can understand missing that in the first publication, but how hasn't it been errataed by now?

Also, how do you lower its immunity to magic? I know of ways to drop SR, but I don't know how to eliminate immunity to magic entirely.

Collin152
2008-03-28, 08:20 PM
...WotC sucks. Or at least, their proofreaders do. Sure, I can understand missing that in the first publication, but how hasn't it been errataed by now?

Also, how do you lower its immunity to magic? I know of ways to drop SR, but I don't know how to eliminate immunity to magic entirely.

Ahem. I shall this time emphasize.

A stone to flesh spell does not actually change the golem’s structure but negates its damage reduction and immunity to magic for 1 full round.

Aquillion
2008-03-28, 09:04 PM
Oh, whoops. Maybe I should stop criticizing WotC for overlooking things...

I suppose that would work. If you assume that the first Stone to Flesh negates the Golem's entire Immunity to Magic ability, including the bit that changes the effect of Stone to Flesh, then the next casting would change it into a flesh golem. That seems like an absurd amount of work to make a golem slightly weaker, though... if you were fighting it, you could just use something that destroys it for the second spell, and if it's yours then it's pointless.

Bandededed
2008-03-28, 09:11 PM
Oh, whoops. Maybe I should stop criticizing WotC for overlooking things...

I suppose that would work. If you assume that the first Stone to Flesh negates the Golem's entire Immunity to Magic ability, including the bit that changes the effect of Stone to Flesh, then the next casting would change it into a flesh golem. That seems like an absurd amount of work to make a golem slightly weaker, though... if you were fighting it, you could just use something that destroys it for the second spell, and if it's yours then it's pointless.

Unless you have only stone and no desire to rip apart some corpses for your golem, that is :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, what about my second question:

Or, could you create life from nothing using this spell in conjunction with wish. Make a statue, Stone to flesh statue to create corpse, make soul with wish, infuse with raise dead or similar magic?

Collin152
2008-03-28, 09:16 PM
It says it creates a corpse, but Animate dead functions basedo n the HD of the dead creature. Since it had no HD, it can't really be affected, can it? Otherwise you'd be incapable of determining it's power.
If you create a soul, I don't know. I mean, just because the soul is free and a boy exists, it doesn't mean it can use that body.

psycojester
2008-03-28, 09:27 PM
Now that i think about it Stone to Flesh has a lot of unexplored potential for dungeon diving. Its an unlimited supply of food, a simple way to get through heavy stone doors and a more efficient way to deal with traps than disarming them.

Bandededed
2008-03-28, 09:51 PM
Heheheehehehe!

Imagine:

A wizard has a bag of holding that he never uses. The rest of his party ask time and time again to be allowed to store treasure in it, but he always refuses without telling them why.

Several years later, the party is in dire straights. They have just gone through a difficult encounter in a desert, during which most of their supplies were torn from them. As they linger around the campfire, growling stomaches abound. Suddenly, the wizard jumps to his feet, exclaiming "Why heavens me! I had nearly forgotten!"

With that he whips out his bag of holding and proceeds to dump the contents onto the ground for all to see.

"Rocks?" the others ask, except the rogue, who says "What the hell. Friggin' wizards"

Not discouraged, the wizard lines the stones up and wraggles his fingers, shouting "Stone to flesh!" as a climax. Suddenly, the ravenous party is faced with 250+ pounds of raw meat. "Get cooking!" he finishes, and the rest of the party cheers.

Man, talk about specific instances... :smallbiggrin:

Squash Monster
2008-03-28, 10:40 PM
As a DM, if somebody took a statue and did Stone to Flesh -> Animate Dead, I'd pull up the Animate Objects stats for a statue of that size, change the type as appropriate to the statue's form, and then apply the Zombie or Skeleton template to that.

However, the stats that yields are pretty low for all that effort. If the statue was actually designed and carved by a necromancer for these purposes, I'd give it loads of stat boosts.

Overlord
2008-03-28, 11:53 PM
Heheheehehehe!

Imagine:

A wizard has a bag of holding that he never uses. The rest of his party ask time and time again to be allowed to store treasure in it, but he always refuses without telling them why.

Several years later, the party is in dire straights. They have just gone through a difficult encounter in a desert, during which most of their supplies were torn from them. As they linger around the campfire, growling stomaches abound. Suddenly, the wizard jumps to his feet, exclaiming "Why heavens me! I had nearly forgotten!"

With that he whips out his bag of holding and proceeds to dump the contents onto the ground for all to see.

"Rocks?" the others ask, except the rogue, who says "What the hell. Friggin' wizards"

Not discouraged, the wizard lines the stones up and wraggles his fingers, shouting "Stone to flesh!" as a climax. Suddenly, the ravenous party is faced with 250+ pounds of raw meat. "Get cooking!" he finishes, and the rest of the party cheers.

Man, talk about specific instances... :smallbiggrin:

Yes, but what kind of raw meat? If I was the DM, I would make a quick table to roll on to decide what sort of flesh is produced. On a high roll: tasty cow or chicken meat. On a low roll: orc, or otyugh meat. On a 1: gnome meat.

Collin152
2008-03-28, 11:54 PM
Yes, but what kind of raw meat? If I was the DM, I would make a quick table to roll on to decide what sort of flesh is produced. On a high roll: tasty cow or chicken meat. On a low roll: orc, or otyugh meat. On a 1: gnome meat.

Gnome is good eating. Move it up to 100.

Zincorium
2008-03-29, 12:05 AM
Gnome is good eating. Move it up to 100.

But the portions are tiny. And there's always somebody glaring at me when I'm trying to sit down to a nice meal, it's worse than veal, I swear.

Collin152
2008-03-29, 12:07 AM
But the portions are tiny.

We're turning slabs of rock into meat. No mater how many chickens it takes, McNugets are all forged of a masive pile of flesh.



I should stop thinking after a certain point...

lothofkalroth
2008-03-29, 12:47 AM
We're turning slabs of rock into meat. No mater how many chickens it takes, McNugets are all forged of a masive pile of flesh.

and they make the buns using flesh to stone.

Collin152
2008-03-29, 12:50 AM
and they make the buns using flesh to stone.

Wonder where the flesh came from...

Mephisto
2008-03-29, 12:51 AM
Yes, but what kind of raw meat? If I was the DM, I would make a quick table to roll on to decide what sort of flesh is produced. On a high roll: tasty cow or chicken meat. On a low roll: orc, or otyugh meat. On a 1: gnome meat.

Presdigitation: It's magically delicious!

Collin152
2008-03-29, 12:56 AM
This thread suddenly remind me of Master of the House...
"Food beyond compare, food beyond belief, mix it in a mincer and pretend it's beef, kidney of a horse, liver of a cat, filling up the sausages with this and that,"

Mewtarthio
2008-03-29, 01:18 AM
Heheheehehehe!

Imagine:

A wizard has a bag of holding that he never uses. The rest of his party ask time and time again to be allowed to store treasure in it, but he always refuses without telling them why.

Several years later, the party is in dire straights. They have just gone through a difficult encounter in a desert, during which most of their supplies were torn from them. As they linger around the campfire, growling stomaches abound. Suddenly, the wizard jumps to his feet, exclaiming "Why heavens me! I had nearly forgotten!"

With that he whips out his bag of holding and proceeds to dump the contents onto the ground for all to see.

"Rocks?" the others ask, except the rogue, who says "What the hell. Friggin' wizards"

Not discouraged, the wizard lines the stones up and wraggles his fingers, shouting "Stone to flesh!" as a climax. Suddenly, the ravenous party is faced with 250+ pounds of raw meat. "Get cooking!" he finishes, and the rest of the party cheers.

Man, talk about specific instances... :smallbiggrin:

"Dammit, if only we hadn't eaten the cleric who could have just cast create food and water--or, since we're resorting to sixth-level spells, heroes feast! Not to mention all your scrolls of teleport... look, maybe you just shouldn't use edible paper, okay?!"

Aquillion
2008-03-29, 04:44 AM
You could use Stone to Flesh to turn rocks into food in Nethack and many similar roguelikes. I think the golem trick worked there, too.

Or, could you create life from nothing using this spell in conjunction with wish. Make a statue, Stone to flesh statue to create corpse, make soul with wish, infuse with raise dead or similar magic?Nah. First, Raise Dead doesn't let you just go around injecting souls into whatever you please -- it returns the soul of a dead person into the body it died out of, and that's all. You can't use it to restore a soul to a body that never had one in the first place.

On top of that, Raise Dead can only 'restore life to a deceased creature', and practically every other line in the spell has some other wording along the same lines. If the target was never alive to begin with, you can't use Raise Dead or any functions-like spells (such as resurrection) on it.

Additionally, making souls is not one of the 'kosher' uses for Wish, so what happens even just from that depends on what your DM decides; you could get the wish twisted or get a partial fulfillment.

Now. If you could bring the body to life despite it never having been alive and having no valid soul to return to it (none of the existing raise dead/resurrection type spells will do this), you could possibly then proceed to use Mind Switch, True Mind Switch, Magic Jar, or something similar to get into the body yourself. But you'd need a way to make it alive, first... and even then, it's debatable whether you can use Mind Switch etc. on targets with no mind (many places in their text implictly assume the target has one, at the very least.)

Lighturtle
2008-03-29, 07:12 AM
But the portions are tiny.

Stop insulting the gnome's portions!

Gorbash
2008-03-29, 07:51 AM
As a DM, if somebody took a statue and did Stone to Flesh -> Animate Dead, I'd pull up the Animate Objects stats for a statue of that size, change the type as appropriate to the statue's form, and then apply the Zombie or Skeleton template to that.

However, the stats that yields are pretty low for all that effort. If the statue was actually designed and carved by a necromancer for these purposes, I'd give it loads of stat boosts.

It says turns stone into flesh... Doesn't say - turns stone into human flesh along with all the muscles and bones... I'd say it just makes a heap of flesh.

droyer
2008-03-29, 09:15 AM
It says turns stone into flesh... Doesn't say - turns stone into human flesh along with all the muscles and bones... I'd say it just makes a heap of flesh.

But it said it made a corpse. A corpse have muscels and bones.

senrath
2008-03-29, 09:26 AM
But it said it made a corpse. A corpse have muscels and bones.

It depends, really. Sure, the corpse of someone stabbed to death would have muscles and bones, but the corpse of someone who had been imploded would be...different.

Xuincherguixe
2008-03-29, 09:59 AM
Mind you, a hideous mass of meat might be a good monster too.

senrath
2008-03-29, 10:14 AM
Mind you, a hideous mass of meat might be a good monster too.

I'm thinking something along the lines of either a chaos beast or a gelatinous cube made out of meat :P

TheCountAlucard
2008-03-29, 11:02 AM
I can't help but think of a bit from Crewel Lye: A Caustic Yarn, by Piers Anthony. Using a magic item at the wrong time, Jordan the Barbarian unintentionally turns part of the mountainside into a huge, amorphous blob of flesh.

Jack_Simth
2008-03-29, 11:24 AM
I can't help but think of a bit from Crewel Lye: A Caustic Yarn, by Piers Anthony. Using a magic item at the wrong time, Jordan the Barbarian unintentionally turns part of the mountainside into a huge, amorphous blob of flesh.

He didn't use a magic item at the wrong time.

They'd been scrambled. It wasn't the one he'd thought it was.

TheCountAlucard
2008-03-29, 12:06 PM
Oops, you're right! My mistake! I can't believe I had forgotten that... Well, it has been years since I read the book...

Pocketa
2008-03-29, 01:28 PM
Because they are totally different in structure, not just material. At least, that's what I'd rule as a DM.

Huh....a benevolent necromancer sculptor...that is an awesome idea. I want to use that in my campaign world now.

Building on this...

A person : skin, skeleton, guts, etc.

Statue: Pure stone

Technically, you could turn a statue into flesh, but it would just be pure flesh. No skeleton, no guts, technically, not a corpse.

TheCountAlucard
2008-03-29, 01:54 PM
Building on this...

A person : skin, skeleton, guts, etc.

Statue: Pure stone

Technically, you could turn a statue into flesh, but it would just be pure flesh. No skeleton, no guts, technically, not a corpse.

Then why does it say it turns it into a corpse?

And, for that matter, why does a person who's been turned into a statue be returned to normal with Stone to Flesh, instead of just flesh? After all, he'd be "pure stone," too...

While I see your point, the spell itself is very unclear about what would work and what wouldn't, and in what ways.

Collin152
2008-03-29, 01:58 PM
Then why does it say it turns it into a corpse?

And, for that matter, why does a person who's been turned into a statue be returned to normal with Stone to Flesh, instead of just flesh? After all, he'd be "pure stone," too...

While I see your point, the spell itself is very unclear about what would work and what wouldn't, and in what ways.

Also, doesn't flesh to stone turn possesion into stone with you, and stone to fleh change them back?

Should just call them Petrify and Unpetrify

DarknessLord
2008-03-29, 02:11 PM
Also, doesn't flesh to stone turn possesion into stone with you, and stone to fleh change them back?

Should just call them Petrify and Unpetrify

But then we wouldn't be having this talk right here, now would we?
(Or maybe we would, if the name was all they changed.)
In my mind, the stone to flesh should all really depend on the artist (hey, it's magical, we can say art pieces retain this sort of thing), if the artist was just trying to make something that looked human, (or any other given race) treat it as a glob of flesh, maybe with the appropriate hair and stuff as well. However if the artist was thinking about bone structure, muscles and organs and general anatomy to get a realistic creature, then it would be a full corpse. So any old statue might or might not work, but if a necromancer made one for this purpose, then if would work (unless they botched their craft check).

hylian chozo
2008-03-29, 06:47 PM
This thread reminds me of a murder mystery campaign I was thinking about running: The party finds the body of some famous hero with no visible cause of death and no signs of decay. I think it would work rather well because speak with dead doesn't work, it can't be raised, and everyone knows who he is.

And if you want to animate it I would just use the stats of a 1st level commoner zombie without weapons.

Ronin of Fire
2008-03-29, 07:11 PM
So Flesh to Stoned statue equals body shaped blob. I didn't know skelaton was a prerequisit for good zombie

Wooter
2008-03-29, 08:48 PM
If we're going the "It turns them into a human shaped pile of just flesh" rout, it would be useful to define flesh.Do we mean epithelial tissue? Do muscles count as flesh? If so, what kinds? Cardiac, skeletal, or smooth? Adipose tissue to make a big blob of fat? Maybe gray matter, or white matter? What about all the different connective tissues, are they flesh?

Or are we going with the old fashioned "flesh, blood and bone" thing, where if it isn't bone or blood it's all lumped into the category of flesh? Would that mean that it's just a tissue type chosen at random, possibly by a percentile chart?

See, I think if you cast Stone To Flesh on a statue it makes a full corpse. You know, because that's what it says in the spell description.

FlyMolo
2008-03-29, 09:46 PM
Also, doesn't flesh to stone turn possesion into stone with you, and stone to fleh change them back?

Should just call them Petrify and Unpetrify

It really doesn't matter if they do. Imagine trying to get a shirt off some statue. Nearly impossible. You'd have to cut it off. You might be able to do pants. Not a shirt, though. Unless they were petrified with arms over head?

Hats easy. Necklaces maybe. Belts easy too. Bracelets only if you're lucky.

Collin152
2008-03-29, 09:47 PM
It really doesn't matter if they do. Imagine trying to get a shirt off some statue. Nearly impossible. You'd have to cut it off. You might be able to do pants. Not a shirt, though. Unless they were petrified with arms over head?

Hats easy. Necklaces maybe. Belts easy too. Bracelets only if you're lucky.

Not the point. Those things aren't flesh.

FlyMolo
2008-03-29, 09:52 PM
Idea. All statues everywhere are just F2S ed versions of the models. Possibly using the clone spell. That's why S2F makes corpses. Inside, they have stone organs. Stone liver, stone nerves, etc etc. Like the Thing. So F2S turns them into real live things. Actually, that doesn't explain why they aren't live bodies. Possibly no soul?

DLoFunk
2008-03-30, 11:58 AM
Oh, I am SOOO making a home-brew PC Race of these! Statues turned into corpses infused w/ brand-spankin new souls? This is gonna be fun!

DLoFunk
2008-03-30, 12:41 PM
Also I love the idea of Craft checks to customize the corpse. Hell you could make yourself a Mount/Animal Companion/Familiar this way.

kamikasei
2008-03-30, 12:49 PM
So, is creating a corpse from a statue then animating it as an undead being an evil act? My moral compass fails me!

If not, could a good necromancer exist viably? Creating fake corpses and animating them for a good cause, instead of killing the innocent peasants?

Nothing requires you to kill the targets of your necromancy. You could rob graves or even pay people for the corpses of their deceased relatives. Any of these routes apparently still make casting Animate Dead evil, so logically (hah! as if) animating an artificial corpse would also be evil for that same ill-defined reason.

NEO|Phyte
2008-03-30, 12:54 PM
Nothing requires you to kill the targets of your necromancy. You could rob graves or even pay people for the corpses of their deceased relatives. Any of these routes apparently still make casting Animate Dead evil, so logically (hah! as if) animating an artificial corpse would also be evil for that same ill-defined reason.

The general argument for why mindless (and thus benign unless ordered otherwise by whomever controls them) undead are [evil] is that the undeadification somehow plays merry hob with the body's soul. If the body never HAD a soul...

raekuul
2008-03-30, 01:05 PM
Well, hang on. When you carve a statue of, say, Belkar, you expect it to be a faithful, if unholy, recreation of Belkar as though he had been petrified. There's nothing preventing a DM from allowing a statue that's been StF'd as the corpse of Belkar. Granted, we would then have two Chaotic Evil killers on the loose, but the PC's wanted it.

Of course, I DM under the assumption that animated things have a will of their own, and only serve the animator due to the "I brought you in, I can take you out again" attitude that I keep running into with my PC's. Imagine a Stone Golem being told to "go wild."

TheCountAlucard
2008-03-30, 01:21 PM
"STONE GOLEMS GONE WILD: COLLEGE GOLEMS, now available for $9.95! These are the HOTTEST stone golems you've EVER seen, and you'll NEVER believe what we filmed them DOING! So order STONE GOLEMS GONE WILD: COLLEGE GOLEMS now, for $9.95, and we'll throw in "STONE GOLEMS GONE WILD: SPRING BREAK as a gift! Order now!"

Sorry, had to do that. :smallbiggrin:

graymachine
2008-03-30, 01:44 PM
WWHD?

What would Hitler do? Stone-to-Flesh meatshields? Ration replenishment? Courtesans for extremely lonely soldiers?

o.O

Haikiah
2008-03-30, 09:08 PM
What would Hitler do? Stone-to-Flesh meatshields? Ration replenishment? Courtesans for extremely lonely soldiers?

o.O

Hitler would insert animated skeletons into stone statues, cast stone to flesh, find a way to stop them rotting so darn fast, and giggle himself to sleep.

Obviously :D

Parvum
2008-03-30, 10:20 PM
...Back on the original "Is it evil" question: I believe that I once read that simply casting Animate Dead made you evil. Because it has the evil descriptor. Something about fiddling with negative energy making the universe just a little bit more evil. You could be the nicest bloke around, rescuing everything from kittens to kingdoms, saving the wounded or emotionally depraved, caring for old ladies and keeping annoying children entertained, diving in front of threatening projectiles daily for the lives of simple commoners, but if you animate undead on a regular basis to help you in your heroic duties paladins will be all over your soon-to-be-severed arse. Despite the fact that negative energy is simply an energy, no more bloody evil than radiation or itching powder. Grk.

GammaPaladin
2008-03-30, 11:00 PM
True, but it's a stupid rule which I always ditch.

Evil descriptors on spells are stupid, more or less period.

It's what you do with the spell that matters.

Starbuck_II
2008-03-31, 06:15 AM
...Back on the original "Is it evil" question: I believe that I once read that simply casting Animate Dead made you evil. Because it has the evil descriptor. Something about fiddling with negative energy making the universe just a little bit more evil. You could be the nicest bloke around, rescuing everything from kittens to kingdoms, saving the wounded or emotionally depraved, caring for old ladies and keeping annoying children entertained, diving in front of threatening projectiles daily for the lives of simple commoners, but if you animate undead on a regular basis to help you in your heroic duties paladins will be all over your soon-to-be-severed arse. Despite the fact that negative energy is simply an energy, no more bloody evil than radiation or itching powder. Grk.

Problem, neither positive energy is good nor negative energy evil, is niether energy aligned innately.
Otherwise, Holy Wording a nursery is a good act.

hamishspence
2008-03-31, 07:10 AM
Descriptors are useful, but there are blurry areas. The aforesaid Holy Wording innocent neutral characters of any sort.

Its 9, not 7, evil spells, cast by Lawful characters, that lock a character to the LE afterlife (Fiendish Codex 2). And still not permanent, if person atones for acts in good ways. Atonement might be very difficult though.

Only notable permanent act is willingly offering your soul to Nine Hells, by signing a Pact Certain. Unfixable, even if you spend rest of game life doing Good acts.

The odd bit is 1 point for ALL evil descriptor spells, from animate dead to Summon Fiendish Horde.

Game mechanic is a little odd, but thats how it is written.

GammaPaladin
2008-03-31, 10:03 AM
Yet another reason why I chuck the rule to the curb and adjudicate good and evil by GM judgement.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-31, 10:13 AM
"The princess has been kidnapped and is being offered up for the prize in an underground poker tournament. She is being kept behind wardings that you have no means of accessing, and if you attempt to free her, she will be killed. What do you do?"
"Well, we could enter the tournament, but if we lose, she dies, right? Okay, then, I cast Cheat."
"Oh, btw, that's an evil spell, yeah, the cleric and paladin aren't going to like that, and I would probably make the paladin fall if he just accepted it. Sorry."

:smallconfused:

Why does anyone use the alignment system as written, anyways? :smallannoyed:

Ronin of Fire
2008-03-31, 11:14 AM
I always found Rolepalying was the best for those situations. I once was in a Chaotic Good party that ran a slave trade under a oblivious paladins nose when he found out about it made for hilarity. any as for spell discriptors you need to build your PCs to fit there Spell book. My Necromancers while good aligned have dubbed them selves as evil because they use death magic even though they have imposed restrictions on themselves as to what they can or can't do they still shy away from socity and don't go near holy sites. It really is how you roleplay the PC

NEO|Phyte
2008-03-31, 11:19 AM
"The princess has been kidnapped and is being offered up for the prize in an underground poker tournament. She is being kept behind wardings that you have no means of accessing, and if you attempt to free her, she will be killed. What do you do?"
"Well, we could enter the tournament, but if we lose, she dies, right? Okay, then, I cast Cheat."
"Oh, btw, that's an evil spell, yeah, the cleric and paladin aren't going to like that, and I would probably make the paladin fall if he just accepted it. Sorry."
"So I DON'T TELL THEM THAT I CAST IT."

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-03-31, 01:11 PM
"So I DON'T TELL THEM THAT I CAST IT."I was away from the BoVD when I typed that, and just thought up a use for the first evil spell that I could remember. But yes, there's a reason I've never had a GM run the alignment system as-written. It's just broken.

Yakk
2008-03-31, 04:04 PM
My mad wizard plan:
Step 1: Get ensouled corpses (or life bodies).
Step 2: Flesh to Stone.
Step 3: Merge into larger sculpture.
Step 4: Stone to Flesh.
Step 5: Raise Dead.
Step 6: Breed to produce new souls for further experiments.

Sachiel
2008-03-31, 04:05 PM
the whole good and evil thing is kinda frusterating...I play a warlock, he is general chaotic neutral, and his main philosiphy in life is that there is no such thing as good and evil, and the only real object of importance is power. I have had a couple of people tell me that believing that makes him evil...really evil is in the eye of the beholder(no pun intended) it almost depends on who decieds what good and evil is, is it some inherent energy in the universe, or do the gods decide what is good and evil? I myself have animated troves of undead.

And for the stone to flesh part, flesh can be define in any of the following ways.
-the soft tissue of the body, especially muscle and fat.
-animal tissue, especially animal tissue used as food.
-the human body as a physical entity.
-the skin of a human or animal.
-the soft, often edible, parts of fruits or vegetables.
-a yellowish pink colour; the colour of some human skin

so this runs the gambit from everything from vegetable to entire people. In my not in any way proffesional opinion, a caster with the appropriate amount of knowledge, of access to such knowledge on anatomy and whatever, and of course enough concentration and magical ability could shape the stone into the right kinds of flesh in the right place to make a human body, or somthing less comlicated like a skelliton in a meat glove that would work well as a zombie.

Another option of the DM could be that you can't reanimate it as per the spell reanimate dead since it was never alive to begin with, therefore never died in the first place.

Yakk
2008-03-31, 04:06 PM
My mad wizard plan:
Step 1: Get ensouled corpses (or life bodies).
Step 2: Flesh to Stone.
Step 3: Merge into larger sculpture.
Step 4: Stone to Flesh.
Step 5: Raise Dead.
Step 6: Breed to produce new souls for further experiments.

Sachiel
2008-03-31, 04:07 PM
sorry about the multiposting if anyone saw it while it was still around, my computer or the site or both freaked out then lagged and blew up, and when i checked there were three of my posts here teehee

Collin152
2008-03-31, 05:03 PM
My mad wizard plan:
Step 1: Get ensouled corpses (or life bodies).
Step 2: Flesh to Stone.
Step 3: Merge into larger sculpture.
Step 4: Stone to Flesh.
Step 5: Raise Dead.
Step 6: Breed to produce new souls for further experiments.

Ah, medical experiments. What else are wizards doing in those towers/foretresses of theirs?

Sachiel
2008-03-31, 05:04 PM
probably download el pron from the internet

Bandededed
2008-03-31, 05:09 PM
probably download el pron from the internet

So that's why their experiments are always screwed up. They cannot concentrate correctly :smallamused:

Collin152
2008-03-31, 05:11 PM
probably download el pron from the internet

They have scrying. And such.
The internet cannot compete!

Sachiel
2008-03-31, 05:18 PM
Quick, lemme pencil this into my charecter sheet.
Spell Like abilities
-Internet three times per day

Collin152
2008-03-31, 05:19 PM
Quick, lemme pencil this into my charecter sheet.
Spell Like abilities
-Internet three times per day

I can internet at will.
+8 to google checks, and i can take 10.

Sachiel
2008-03-31, 05:26 PM
man this thread is going down fast and hard, we have to get back to the original topic or somthing...erm ummm uhhh.
LOOK A DISTRACTION!.
*casts flare*