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Purple Cloak
2008-04-02, 10:45 AM
I'm just wondering, judging by how last session my players wound up getting the whole party killed by entering an inner sanctum of the temple they were suposed to be escaping from, even though I feel I made it quite clear where they were heading and had another prisoner point out that the rituals took place on the other side of the door, but i degress.

I'm just wondering how many DMs out their have wound up with a total party kill whether it be through their own malice, or the players not knowing how to take a hint that somthings too dangerous.

Annoyingly i have to rehaul my whole campaign world now because they were sacrafised to bring a deamon lord into the world, and I have to work out the ramafacations of that before I reboot the campaign.

But back to my point does anyone have any interesting or amusing storys to share in regard to partys getting wiped out?

Shishnarfne
2008-04-02, 10:57 AM
Yeah, I TPK'd a party in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft... They managed to find the fastest route to big trouble in the castle, then managed to get Strahd ANGRY with them...

It's at about that time that you have to either start a new party to fix the ramifications of what happened at that time or to start a new campaign...

But I believe that the occaisional TPK/near TPK is a good experience for most gaming groups. It keeps the players aware of their characters' collective mortality.:smallwink: Just don't overdo it.

clockwork warrior
2008-04-02, 10:58 AM
dont think i have had one yet, but i forsee one in the future cause i dont think the party clearly understands the risk of something they want to do...

its_all_ogre
2008-04-02, 11:05 AM
had a few. almost always from players not working together.
expecting another one either today or next wednesday.:smallbiggrin:

i hate them for the restarting the game point and also because it makes me feel like a rubbish DM. but hey ho what can you do?

valadil
2008-04-02, 11:06 AM
My all Commoner campaign ended abruptly when the group angered the wrong housecat.

Xefas
2008-04-02, 11:11 AM
Well, there are really only five things that can kill the entire party.

One, the PCs did something horrifically stupid. They jumped off a mile-high cliff and thought they could survive the fall damage, they made cracks about Bel's mum to his face while a regiment of 10,000 Pit Fiends was sitting only feet away, they murdered the King's son in front of him and then started playing hackysack with bits of his entrails, etc.

Two, the DM was being a jerk. He wanted to 'teach someone a lesson', or wanted to make the game seem 'gritty' or 'hardcore', but really, everyone just died horribly and went home.

Three, something stupid and arbitrary happened in battle. Someone used a save or die, and BAM, sorry you spent those 4 hours coming up with backstory only to have your character killed after 10 minutes of gameplay. Maybe that CR 1/2 Orc with a Greataxe just crit your level 6 Warblade for 48 damage in the surprise round, killing him instantly before the player even got a chance to decide anything. Are we having fun yet?

Four, an honest mistake was made. It turns out the CR wasn't appropriate for the battle, or the PCs' resources were too drained at that point, or some facet of their plan made it more difficult than it had to be, or you just read the statblock wrong.

Five, epic plot finale. The PCs sacrifice themselves, the BBEG goes with them, and the ultimate goal of crazy importance is realized. Alternatively, you get the 'WH40k' type ending where you sacrifice yourselves, the BBEG goes with you, but you really didn't accomplish anything important and no one really cares.

I've had 1, 3, 4, and 5 happen while I was DMing, and have been the indirect victim of number 2 as a player on occasion.

Purple Cloak
2008-04-02, 11:12 AM
My all Commoner campaign ended abruptly when the group angered the wrong housecat.

so im not the only one who stikes at their dignaty then, awsome.

I used to like punishing them with warptouch, but they find it too funny so it stoped working :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Ok I just realised the joke, im ashamed now :smallfrown:

TheCountAlucard
2008-04-02, 11:21 AM
One of the big things that cause TPK's is a lack of group unity. Each player is thinking mostly about his/her own character's health, assuming that the rest of the group is fine.

Another is the tendency to not retreat during a battle. While monsters often have the good sense to try and escape when down to 1/4 health or lower, players often don't.

Purple Cloak
2008-04-02, 11:26 AM
One of the big things that cause TPK's is a lack of group unity. Each player is thinking mostly about his/her own character's health, assuming that the rest of the group is fine.

Another is the tendency to not retreat during a battle. While monsters often have the good sense to try and escape when down to 1/4 health or lower, players often don't.

yeah, i think that was the major problem here, a player disided to go this way, and the rest of the party followed without question just because they wanted the extra muscle, ignoring all the hints, ah well it happens, maybe next time they will take a hint when I point out somthings dangerous.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-04-02, 12:04 PM
Players tend to assume they'll survive anything - or, at the very least, that anything they run into will be an appropriate encounter for them. This is not an unreasonable assumption, especially when playing a game with a challenge ranking system as extensive and explicit as D&D.

Many games hinge on disabusing players of this notion; usually, simply having a realistically lethal combat system will suffice (nobody wants to get in a shootin' fight in Cyberpunk 2020, and nobody wants to encounter anything at all if they can avoid it in Call of Cthulhu).

In D&D, though, you have to tell your players explicitly, at the start of the campaign, that they may have the opportunity to run into things they can't hope to defeat (or even situations they can't get out of alive); you also have to make clear (and they have to trust you) that you will never force them into such situations and will give ample warning and opportunity to avoid such encounters and situations.

And then you have to reinforce that sometimes. If the 6th-level party only knows the cult is going to summon "a demon", they'll crash that ritual sacrifice; if they know the cult is going to summon "a balor", they'll probably do the right thing and bail out. (No character should have a roleplaying reason to uselessly throw their life away with absolutely no hope of anything even distantly resembling success.)

Lucyfur
2008-04-02, 12:17 PM
If my players act foolishly, then they will be in danger of a TPK. The dnd world is harsh, and if you take it for granted, then their must be consequences.
As a player, if get the idea that my DM isn't putting the pcs in real danger, then the game becomes a bit less fun for me.

Although it does take skill for a dm to tpk the party while not pissing everyone off.

Also, occasionally the players will test the dm by putting themselves in needless danger. DMs gotta stand tall in this situation. It's like the pcs saying "Don't worry, our dm doesn't have the balls to actually tpk us. We'll be fine."

Prometheus
2008-04-02, 12:47 PM
I've never had my players act foolishly enough for "wrath" or "punishment" to become an issue, and I don't feel like its the best way with dealing with the subject.

As far as random danger, there has only been two incidents. One they survived when they were meant to be taken prisoner, the other time they were taken prisoner when they were meant to survive. I could have killed them, but I chose to make it more complicated than that.

A large party with the ability to send emergency signals or make emergency mistakes tends to avoid the kind of TPK that leaves he DM with not way to revive.

Purple Cloak
2008-04-02, 04:46 PM
Then promethius, you are a lucky person, I have cirtain members of my group who constantly screw around and annoy people by playing charicters that have no sence of self preservation, delebratly get the party in trouble and try to kill the party members and only seems to think he's acheved if he's annoyed everyone with the charicter, this is the situation that I punish with thinks like warptouch or wrath tables, but he dosnt seem to care so thats annoying.

Although yes if they flaunt the whole "The DM is too soft" angle, thats when im likly to be a little more nasty on purpose.

Alas not all players take the game seriosly enough to allow a light hearted game to be always fun :smallannoyed:

although to my point about his killing party members, excluding the TPK, four charicters have died, three of them by his doing, and only one by mine, incedently it was him though. :smalltongue:

But I degress, this thread is about sharing stories of failed heroics or DM cruelty, not bemoaning about irrataing players.

EDIT: Although lucyfur, I think i was lucky in regard to not annoying everyone because it was a case of, "well your all dead, but now i have to rehaul the campaign because of the deamon lord, sucks to be any of us" that or they just didn't mind

Grommen
2008-04-02, 05:12 PM
First night out the box with 3.0 ED.

We make the "IronBallzz" clan of Dwarves. (Look the computer told us it was a valid name in the name generator).

So three young, powerful 1st level Dwarves go on a grand adventure to slay what else? Ork. I mean first time out with a new edition we have to see how the Orks are.

3 orks vs 3 Dwarves....

1 round....Total loss, not a hit point left. (Why do they need 18 STR and a two handed weapon?) and only a 1/2 CR? WHY GODS WHY?

Ok so were not going out that way. DM sais, "Well you wake up naked in the ork stronghold where it looks like they are about to use you in gladitoral combat. Your fully healed but you have no weapons. Looks like their are some weapons in the arena, and some Kobalds."

So 3 Kobalds VS 3 Dwarves...

Took two rounds for the Kobalds to get us that time... :)

After that we just started drinking (ok more drinking), and looked through the monster manual for something else to kill.

wodan46
2008-04-02, 06:02 PM
why do you put up with a player who refuses to play reasonably with the others? if they aren't going to play as part of the party, then why put up with them at all?

nargbop
2008-04-02, 06:29 PM
I've found as a DM that player must, MUST have options obviously available. Some players operate by the computer-RPG idea "get to the next screen" and if there's only one option obvious, by gum they'll take it. Even if you make it perfectly clear "YOU SHOLD NOT DO THIS"

SilentNight
2008-04-02, 06:46 PM
I plan to run tomb of horrors soon. Once I do I'll come back here.

Eldariel
2008-04-02, 08:24 PM
I've found as a DM that player must, MUST have options obviously available. Some players operate by the computer-RPG idea "get to the next screen" and if there's only one option obvious, by gum they'll take it. Even if you make it perfectly clear "YOU SHOLD NOT DO THIS"

My own approach to such players is to either try to ram it to their heads that this is an interactive game where they live in a world rather than a scripted story, and if that doesn't work, well they'll figure it out for themselves eventually.

My games really have TPKs commonly, since I run the game on the premise that the world works logically and therefore I don't take character levels into account when making encounters. Of course I make sure that there's some way to live (not hard since characters tend to grow smart enough to get a scroll of Get The F Outta Here immediately when they can afford them). Sometimes though things happen: an evil party of 3 level 6 characters en route to Obad-Hai's domain to learn certain ritual (one of them wanted to turn into a Raksasha, eventually figuring out that the ritual wasn't readily available on the material plane) were going to Sigil first. They ended within the hub's spell suppressing powers, but too far to make it. The Druid had been making them food so suddenly they found themselves without ratios and starved to death. Who told 'em to start planar travels without contingency plans for dead magic areas? I think I didn't actually let 'em die of starvation though; they happened upon some random fellow out there and bought enough ratios (for some stupid high price - one does what one must; they had no real face so negotiations weren't their strong point) to survive to Sigil, but effectively they got themselves killed by being cheap and not carrying ratios.

Vaynor
2008-04-02, 08:29 PM
Disintegrating the roof is never a good idea. When disintegrating the roof, be sure NOT to blow up the main supports. Also, in general, don't even use disintegrate when excavating a dungeon underneath a giant lake.

(My plan to make the chandelier fall on the villains (BIG chandelier) failed pretty hard. I did kill them though! Also the entire party.)

Cuddly
2008-04-02, 08:35 PM
My own approach to such players is to either try to ram it to their heads that this is an interactive game where they live in a world rather than a scripted story, and if that doesn't work, well they'll figure it out for themselves eventually.

My games really have TPKs commonly, since I run the game on the premise that the world works logically and therefore I don't take character levels into account when making encounters. Of course I make sure that there's some way to live (not hard since characters tend to grow smart enough to get a scroll of Get The F Outta Here immediately when they can afford them). Sometimes though things happen: an evil party of 3 level 6 characters en route to Obad-Hai's domain to learn certain ritual (one of them wanted to turn into a Raksasha, eventually figuring out that the ritual wasn't readily available on the material plane) were going to Sigil first. They ended within the hub's spell suppressing powers, but too far to make it. The Druid had been making them food so suddenly they found themselves without ratios and starved to death. Who told 'em to start planar travels without contingency plans for dead magic areas? I think I didn't actually let 'em die of starvation though; they happened upon some random fellow out there and bought enough ratios (for some stupid high price - one does what one must; they had no real face so negotiations weren't their strong point) to survive to Sigil, but effectively they got themselves killed by being cheap and not carrying ratios.

So what, they tried to plane shift in, rolled poorly, and got stuck floating in space?

Yahzi
2008-04-02, 08:37 PM
But back to my point does anyone have any interesting or amusing storys to share in regard to partys getting wiped out?
I let my GUPRS modern group roll up whatever characters they wanted. They took so many mental disadvantages that by the end of the second session, they were throwing dynamite at each other.

kingpain
2008-04-02, 08:42 PM
Occassionally, my players just make that bad decision: not to rest, to attack something too powerful, or forgetting about area of affect size. My favorite was when an Illithid, with only 4 HPs left, had three tentacles latched onto the meat shield and the sole remaining party member stopped to bandage her caltrop wounds instead of aiding him.
Mostly though, it is just horrid, and I mean horrid, luck. Two crits on the same character back to back. Casting their lone fireball spell, and dealing only 12 damage at sixth level. Fumbling back to back to back.
After that follows metagame thinking. Players betting a creature doesn't have combat reflexes. Not having a rogue and going through a module with only one trap, but it's Enervation.
I give hints, suggestions, and ask the dreaded, "Are you sure you want to do that?" My players range from experienced to newcomer, most are intelligent, or if not, just so darn fun.
Poop happens, we always have more dice.

Eldariel
2008-04-02, 09:25 PM
So what, they tried to plane shift in, rolled poorly, and got stuck floating in space?

No, they found themselves in the wastes of the Outlands; they didn't have a planar guide (something about it costing too much again; they really didn't want to pay for anything unnecessary) and while they managed to locate a portal to the Outlands by themselves (it had something to do with divinations), they didn't know where exactly the portal would take them. They ended up in the 100mi. range from the hub unaware of directions; you can guess the rest (it was a freestanding portal, not a portal town).

Roderick_BR
2008-04-03, 10:47 AM
Player: Uh? He's still talking? I attack him.
DM: Okay, your sudden attack got him by surprise, and he fell down with a swing of your sword.
Player: Wooh! I got him
DM: And now the whole guard is pointing their lances at you for having killed the king.

Seriously, that's so common it ain't funny anymore :smalltongue:

its_all_ogre
2008-04-03, 11:01 AM
on the subject of saving money:
my group are exploring a homebrew world and were looking to travel across very very dangerous wilderness to get to a ruined city to loot it basically.
i furnished them with a map and told them it was not to any scale.
they'd just earned a huge amount of loot, around 12000 gp in total, and were offered a scale map of the continent by a master map-maker.
for 10gp
they turned it down.
one of them thought to by buy a map of the ruins they were heading too for 15gp though.
this map, the maker created, was put together from many scraps from previous travellers to that place, picking the bits that seemed most accurate...
so basically they bought a map they had been told was effectively definitely not accurate and passed on an accurate map of the continent.
did not even check the scale map to see how far it was to travel.
it was 600 miles as it happens.
at leats once a session somebody will ask me where they are on the map and i tell them 'you don;t know'
'can i try to work it out?'
'of course' hands them map 'go on then'

10GP!! of course there will never be a scaled up available in my campaign world because its too funny to repeat this theme!

Purple Cloak
2008-04-04, 01:10 PM
10GP!! of course there will never be a scaled up available in my campaign world because its too funny to repeat this theme!

I'm going to have to rember this, especaly with my chicken scratch handwriting for map annotations, unless they are wise enough to get a decent map, one of my players did, which im happy about, some of them have sence.

although wodan46 as for not tolerating the person , its not my choise only whether to throw a person out of a group, if thats what you're sugesting, as I try to be diplomatic about things, although the fact this person gets punished by other players too for his stupidity might eventualy get the message to sink in, hopefully.

although as for my next campaign i'm gonig to be a bit more brutal on the "work together of you die" front, as they will have a miffed of deamon lord to contend with, but judgeing by past experiance, that might lead a TPK ether other session, meh I don't know, I'll work somthing out.

FlyMolo
2008-04-04, 01:56 PM
I plan to run tomb of horrors soon. Once I do I'll come back here.
+1.

I think if you're going to punish your players, play the monsters cleverly. Tucker's kobolds, but with everything. Chaos Beast tag. Stirges attacking when they're asleep. The works.

Tyger
2008-04-04, 02:43 PM
Well, I can't remember the last time that I killed all the players in my game. There was that one hazy night in Bangkok though... never did see those guys again, and I did wake up all covered in...

What's the statute of limitations on that??

Now, assuming, as everyone else has, that you mean Total Party Kill, I have yet to do one. Mostly because my players are too damned clever by half. I have fudged rolls a couple times to prevent individual deaths, as I hate "random" deaths. That said, if an individual does something extremely stupid, I don't pull any punches. :smallcool: