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SamTheCleric
2008-04-06, 06:29 PM
I've almost got him to where I like him and will be swapping out my cleric (the one in my sig) for this guy.

Here is a list of the books in use, according to the GM.

Books in use
Players' Handbook I & II
Tome of Battle
Dungeon Master's Guide I & II
All Races Books
All Complete Books
Spell Compendium
Libris Mortis
Fiends I & II
Monster Manual I, II & III
Fiend Folio
Planar Handbook
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Book of Vile Darkness
Lords of Madness

Race: Human

Wizard 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 5
[Using the UA variant rule to replaced Scribe Scroll and Wizard Bonus feats with Fighter Feats, would like to replace familiar...]

(Brackets = Magically augmented)

STR 14 [18] CON 14 [16] DEX 16 INT 17 [21] WIS 10 CHA 8

Feats:
Human - Combat Casting (For Abjurant Champion after JPM)
1st - Arcane Mastery [Complete Arcane]
1st* - Power Attack
3rd - Practiced Spellcaster [Complete Arcane]
5th* - Improved Toughness [Monster Manual IV]
6 - Arcane Strike [Complete Arcane]
9 - Blade of Force [Complete Mage]

Stances:

Hunter's Sense
Flame's Blessing

Manuevers:

Vanguard Strike
Revitalizing Strike
Divine Surge
Moment of Perfect Mind
Emerald Razor
Stone Vise

Equipment:
+1 Spell Storing Scythe
+1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt
Handy Haversack
Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend
Ring of Counterspells
Headband of Intellect +4
Amulet of Health +2
Belt of Giant Strength +4

Talic
2008-04-07, 12:47 AM
If you'd like to replace Summon Familiar with another ability, consider the Immediate Casting variant.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-07, 06:02 AM
Where can I find the immediate casting variant?

Talic
2008-04-07, 06:13 AM
Complete Mage, I believe.

Either that or PHB 2.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-07, 06:21 AM
Hmm, that requires being a specialist wizard. I wasn't intending on being a specialist, but it could work. Enchantment and Necromancy can be given up quite easily (I want to keep evoc... Yes I know it's less that optimal, but there's some signature spells that I want to cast and not cast as shadow versions of them.)

The question, what to specialize in to get the most use out of immediate casting?

Talic
2008-04-07, 06:25 AM
Hmm, that requires being a specialist wizard. I wasn't intending on being a specialist, but it could work. Enchantment and Necromancy can be given up quite easily (I want to keep evoc... Yes I know it's less that optimal, but there's some signature spells that I want to cast and not cast as shadow versions of them.)

The question, what to specialize in to get the most use out of immediate casting?

Aprupt Jaunt is evil strong. Look that one up. 10 foot teleport as an immediate action. It can take you out of melee range, put you INTO melee range, move you through a door or wall, etc.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-07, 06:27 AM
Look at the Elven Wizard sub. level from RotW. It gives some nice benefits for a Generalist, and all you give up is the ability to specialize.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-07, 07:23 AM
Hmm, that requires being a specialist wizard. I wasn't intending on being a specialist, but it could work.

Regardless of whether you'd be using that immediate casting option, a specialist wizard is a good deal. You can even tack on the Focused Specialist option, or two levels of Master Specialist if you want. Also, a number of alternative options let you replace e.g. your scribe scrolls feat with something that may be more useful for your build (like a fighter feat of your choice).

Transmutation has a fun immediate alternative ability. Conjuration has the strongest (10' swift teleportation a few times per day). Most of the others are unimpressive.

Darrin
2008-04-07, 07:25 AM
Stances:

Hunter's Sense
Flame's Blessing

Manuevers:

Vanguard Strike
Revitalizing Strike
Divine Surge
Moment of Perfect Mind
Emerald Razor
Stone Vise


When going JPM, one of the important decisions is whether to focus on Desert Wind or Devoted Spirit. Looks like you've chosen Devoted Spirit, which is the stronger choice (too many things are resistant/immune to fire damage). Devoted Spirit leads to the Aura of Chaos stance, which is sparkly-unicorn-awesomeness on toast, particularly with a greatsword + punishing stance. Pick this stance up at ECL 15 with Martial Stance. Hmm. I'm not really getting a sense of why you picked your stances/maneuvers.

Hunter's Spirit...? Ok, yes, it has some uses, but it's not a bread-and-butter stance, unless you're using it to qualify for Sudden Leap (free movement! yay!)... but you aren't.

Flame's Blessing - Eh, somewhat useful, but too easy to duplicate with a spell or magic item. Pick up a Cloak of Elemental Protection, 1000 GP. MIC p. 87. Immediate action, gain fire resistance of chosen energy type until the start of your next turn.

If you're making a "Who wants some?" in-your-face kind of gish, you'll get more mileage out of Punishing Stance or Leading the Charge. If you're going the greatsword/THF route, then take Punishing Stance. If you're going TWF+Pounce, stick with Leading the Charge.

I'd take Mountain Hammer over Stone Vise, which requires a Fort save to do anything useful. Most everything you're going to run into will have a pretty good Fort save. Mountain Hammer is much more likely to be useful. It's your all-purpose anti-DR can-opener, and it also ignores hardness, so it's like a wand of infinite shatter for getting rid of annoying objects.

Talic
2008-04-07, 07:30 AM
Actually, the JPM I built was a Stone Dragon, heh. Gestalt Dwarf with a few levels in Deepstone Sentinel too. Battlefield Control Specialist, With a bit of backup Boom.

Oh, and for serious cast builds, I'm gonna weigh in against focused specialist. It's not that it's not good, you just give up too much for it. It shifts too many spells into 1 school, and bars access to almost 40% of the spells out there.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-07, 07:40 AM
All good advice. yeah, I'm going to specialize in Conjuration (giving up enchantment and necromancy). Abrupt Jaunt looks really good... it'd be 5x a day 10' jump.. Good for positioning and for going "No, the big ubercharger mountain troll does -not- get to hit me"

I'm -really- inexperienced with the tome of battle stuff, so I'm not exactly sure what would be great to pick up. The idea behind the stances was that I wanted stuff that was more utility... since the majority of the time I'd be in the Mystic Pheonix Stance for the +1 Caster Level, +2 Dodge to AC and DR x/Evil. Much better than any other option available to me.

I enter Warblade at character level 6 (so I'm effectively a 3rd level initiator... up to 2nd level manuevers/stances). I end up getting 3 starting warblade manuevers and 1 stance. I then get to pick 3 Devoted Spirit or Desert Wind manuevers and 1 Devo or DW stance.

I do like Revitalizing Strike and Divine Surge... which is why I took Vanguard Strike to provide the prereqs. Any further advice is very welcome.

Talic
2008-04-07, 07:59 AM
Just as a side note, Stone Dragon is generally not a good school for a mage, as you generally have a low AC, BAB, and HP. Blur and such can counter this somewhat, and certain PrC's can help HP, but without specific builds, it's bad.

Devoted Spirit is better for a standard build... Though this has given me an idea for the gestalt challenge... Heh.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-07, 08:05 AM
Well, Talic, Do you have any recommendations for manuevers?

I like the concentration checks to will saves (as it's my lowest save) ... and Emerald Razor seems like it'd work well with a full power attack.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-07, 08:14 AM
Regarding focused specialist... (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=952899)

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-07, 08:30 AM
You're going to lose at least one big school. It sucks. End of debate.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-07, 08:32 AM
Focused Specialist doesn't make you lose another school, it just lowers your "spells per day" to get more spells from your speciality.

I think it's -1 spell for an additional +2 spells from your speciality... but don't quote me on this, I'm not at home. :)

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-07, 08:35 AM
Focused Specialist is a bad choice, because you either end up giving up your Dispel Magic or your no-save spells. It's a serious trap.

Talic
2008-04-07, 08:37 AM
Regardless of what is said concerning Focused Specialist, the end result is, if you don't choose very well at character creation, you're completely gimped.

Yes, that's a good guide to Focused Specialists. No, I don't recommend anyone who is not thoroughly familiar with wizards to play one. Why?

Because if you don't have an idea of the encounter, and you selected poorly, you're so far behind wizard it's not funny. If you do? You're ahead, usually.

If you do have an idea of the expected encounter, and you selected poorly, chances are, you can't get the best spells for the situation. If you selected well, you may get most, and you'll probably be just as effective.

Basically, focused specialist makes a wizard like a sorceror, with more flexibility within 5 schools, and less flexibility (read: none) within 3.

A handwave to the UMD rogue or the cleric as a fix isn't really a fix. Those classes have actions too each fight, and they should be taking them. Not taking yours, because you can't. I would personally generally ban Necromancy as one of the 3, not abjuration.

Yes, focused specialist CAN be good. It can also be REALLY, REALLY bad.


As for the OP question on maneuvers, I'm not as conversant with maneuvers as I'd like to be. I built my JPM around Improved Sunder and the "Ignore all hardness" strikes, with Sundering Cleave and improved trip. Against human opponents, 1 round usually left someone weaponless, on their back, and wounded. It's not too viable outside of Gestalt though. At least, not with JPM and wizard.

For maneuvers, I'll bow to people with more skill in ToB. As concentration is Ki for wizard types anyway, I'd go for the ToB that works with Concentration. I believe there's a diamond nightmare strike that's good. Still, most of the moves may be best to be defensive in nature, freeing up the wizardly abilities to do what they do.

All depends on whether you want to be more of a Gish, or more of a caster.

EDIT: And yes, Focused Spec. does require you select an additional banned school, on top of the ones from specializing.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-07, 09:17 AM
You're going to lose at least one big school. It sucks. End of debate.

While it would be nice if you could "end" any debate by simply saying that something "sucks", the charop boards prove you wrong. Yes, it's powerful. No, it's not for everybody.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-07, 09:43 AM
Pshaw. I could list all the spells you lose in core, but the server will eat it. Suffice is to say Spellmaster gets you the same boost with a much minor drawback.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-07, 09:50 AM
Pshaw. I could list all the spells you lose in core, but the server will eat it.
Heh. You'd never memorize that many spells anyway, so that's unimportant. The above thread explains that you primarily lose things you wouldn't use anyway. And you can use Spell Versatility to get Dispel Magic back, if you really must.


Suffice is to say Spellmaster gets you the same boost with a much minor drawback.
You mean this one (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Spellmaster_%28DnD_Prestige_Class%29)? It loses a caster level, which is about the biggest "no" with regard to prestige classing. Bad idea.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-07, 09:55 AM
Eeehh, no I didn't even know there was a PrC. I'm talking about the feat (Think it was in Dragon), which requires being able to cast 4th level spells, and either INT or CHA 22, costs you four permanent points of CON, and gives you the same boost. It's a bit of an ouchie, but losing irresistible dance, Waves of Exhaustion, Enervation and all the other fun stuff is worse.

Talic
2008-04-07, 11:45 AM
Respectfully, Azerian, you're wrong here. In this instance, the Trap... it's a trap.

While most of the spells you listed are quite good, they can be done without. The point isn't having a spell you want and making it work. The point is having a spell that will work well at all times. Focused specialist can do that without those spells, as there are other choices that fulfill much the same function, mechanically.


Irresistable dance is questionable. I like more bang for my 8th level spots than a touch spell that takes one thing out of a fight for a few rounds. Yes, it can be made to work with other spells (Spectral Hand) or PRC's (Archmage), but it's less useful, as, at that level, things start getting mind blank, and anything immune to mind affecting abilities won't be affected.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-04-07, 12:10 PM
Also, you could quite easily ban four schools - the majority of the power of magic lies in abjuration, divination, conjuration, and transmutation. I could quite happily play a wizard restricted to them.

SamTheCleric
2008-04-07, 01:12 PM
So, change him to a conjuration specialist with the Abrupt Jaunt Immediate Magic variant from PHB2. Ban Enchantment and Necromancy.

Caster level will be 9 (11 with Practiced Spellcaster)... so up to 5th level spells.

Initiator level of 8.

I do plan on him being a gish-type... up in the thick of things smacking them with his scythe and then tumbling back to throw fireballs/prismatic rays...