View Full Version : Complete Champion

2008-04-08, 07:40 AM
Is it any good? My friend and myself had an argument over whether or not it was actually useable at all. I personally find it filled with nice fluff and decent rules and definetely worthy of starring with the other Complete Books.

2008-04-08, 07:48 AM
I think the general consensus is that it's filled with stuff that's nigh unusable (like the 40+ pages of just pre-made, world-specific organizations), and then has a lot of stuff that's ridiculously overpowered and should never have made it into print (like the Spirit Lion Totem barbarian variant and a few other things). Others can probably elaborate one what's what in it, since I haven't looked through it that much, despite owning it.

There is some pretty decent stuff in it (like some of the Paladin spells), and the fluff is good if you're using it in your game, but overall I'm not a fan. I'm not sure if it's the worst of the Complete series, but it's down there with Complete Psionic in my book.

2008-04-08, 08:21 AM
Well, I will be using the Ordained Champion in my game for the BBEG who will become the warlord of the devils in the Prime. Filled the LE champion's role better than blackguard for exemple.

But still it is overpowered, I just don't mind giving it to a guy the players will eventualy face and probably defeat.

2008-04-08, 08:27 AM
The strongest benefits of this book are more for your powergamer or for your paladin than most other players. It provides a bit of interesting fluff beyond that, and a bit of an expansive organization/benefits section.

I don't rate this book very high, over all. If you are a wizard, it at least offers a (/another) prestige class with full spellcasting that makes an excellent dip (paragnostic apostle).

2008-04-08, 08:34 AM
I like this book, though that may be because I enjoy playing my paladins. There is some overpowered stuff in it, so our group watches CChamp content, but generally speaking it's a good place to pick a feat or a couple of spells from.

2008-04-08, 10:05 AM
I went trough the pages of this book once, and to say the least, I don't regret an iota not having bought it.

2008-04-08, 10:13 AM
To me, it read like reprints from Complete Divine with a paint job. Seriously, how many of the "Paladin like class/prestige classes for alignment ____" do we really need?
Overall, I did not deem it worth buying. The only reason I care that it exists is because of the Barbarian Pounce thing.

2008-04-08, 10:16 AM
The only thing that made me want to buy the book was the Pres class that causes all the shadows in a room to distort so as to always conceal you. The idea of running a BBEG like that for my players gives me goosebumps. I mean, freaking imagine that! The villian walks through an empty, torchlit cathedral and the long shadows cast by the pillars follow him the entire trip up to the alter. How cool is that?

2008-04-08, 04:47 PM
Well, Complete Champion allows a Wizard to cast ANY divination spells spontaneously by sacrificing a spellslot of equal or greater level. All at the cost of wizard bonus feats (except Scribe Scroll)! So if you take the substitution at 5th level and PrC away, you'll never have to worry about divination. Ever.

Squash Monster
2008-04-08, 05:36 PM
The domain devotion feats and the various substitution levels are quite great. It's one of the books I find myself pulling from very frequently.

However, other than the beginning of the character options chapter where those are located, I can't say I've found much use out of the book.