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Mark Hall
2008-04-09, 11:59 PM
What effect favored weapons in Tome of Battle have on the styles? Is there an ill effect for using, say, a greatsword with a Iron Heart? Or a bastard sword with Stone Dragon? Or are they flavoring to the style that don't have any direct effect on the game?

NEO|Phyte
2008-04-10, 12:00 AM
There are some feats and class abilities that require using favored weapons, but it is mostly flavor.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-10, 12:04 AM
Play an Unarmed Swordsage. Specialize in Tiger Claw, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, and Stone Dragon. Never worry about favored weapon again.

Mark Hall
2008-04-10, 12:09 AM
Play an Unarmed Swordsage. Specialize in Tiger Claw, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, and Stone Dragon. Never worry about favored weapon again.

That's one of my two options, actually. The other one is a half-giant warblade/psychic warrior.

Ascension
2008-04-10, 12:15 AM
Swordsages get free weapon focus in the weapons of one discipline (Yeah, weapon focus isn't great, but hey, a free +1 is a free +1.), discipline-specific feats like the awesome Shadow Blade generally require the use of a discipline-preferred weapon, and some prestige classes (notably Bloodclaw Master) hinge on the use of discipline-preferred weapons. Other than that the sky's the limit. Really, for a warblade or crusader it hardly matters at all.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-04-10, 12:27 AM
Blade Meditation's a semi-useful feat in that it's Weapon Focus in every discipline weapon and +2 to a specific skill. So, instead of a crappy feat, it's like half a dozen crappy feats for the price of one.

I was considering that for a Crusader I just built, but then I realized that with his deity, he could take Fire Devotion and light himself on fire to deal additional damage to his enemies. I think that gives +2 Intimidate just from circumstance bonus. This is why so many feats in D&D don't get used; there's always more awesome ones out there.

But yeah, it's nothing to worry about with a Crusader, Warblade, or Swordsage who's already specializing in Unarmed, which shows up on many of the best disciplines.

Townopolis
2008-04-10, 03:03 AM
The favored weapons are there to mock and aggravate people like me who think a gnomish swordsage wielding a gnome hooked-hammer would be awesome but at the same time have issues letting class abilities go to waste.

Otherwise, they're just there to encourage swordsage players to adhere to a limited weapon selection determined by the authors.

And for fluff...

Admiral Squish
2008-04-10, 03:17 AM
Blade Meditation's a semi-useful feat in that it's Weapon Focus in every discipline weapon and +2 to a specific skill. So, instead of a crappy feat, it's like half a dozen crappy feats for the price of one.

I was considering that for a Crusader I just built, but then I realized that with his deity, he could take Fire Devotion and light himself on fire to deal additional damage to his enemies. I think that gives +2 Intimidate just from circumstance bonus. This is why so many feats in D&D don't get used; there's always more awesome ones out there.

But yeah, it's nothing to worry about with a Crusader, Warblade, or Swordsage who's already specializing in Unarmed, which shows up on many of the best disciplines.
On the subject of being aggressively on fire:
http://drmcninja.com/issue4/4p15.gif

AslanCross
2008-04-10, 05:38 AM
Favored weapons do not get in the way of your maneuvers, definitely. It's usually prestige classes and feats that are affected by the favored weapons. As far as I can tell, it's Tiger Claw (its feats and Bloodclaw Master) that are strictest about the favored weapon thing. Thankfully, Bloodclaw Master allows also for dual-wield daggers.

Grynning
2008-04-10, 05:43 AM
It's funny, I was just thinking about this very topic...
I finally broke down and bought ToB recently (which is a big step for me...believe me) and am slowly getting to like it. The weapon selection of the disciplines does kinda bug me as well, especially the fact that a) so many weapons are repeated across the disciplines and b) there are lots of other weapons I'd rather use (polearms and flails, for example).

However, I don't consider it a real problem, since the weapons are just flavor, and I hate the overall flavor of the book anyways. When I use it, I'll just change out the lists if I'm DM'ing or ask my DM if I can modify them slightly. Doesn't break anything at all, and I'm sure most DM's wouldn't really mind if it makes for a neat character (like the gnome swordsage with the hooked hammer - I think that's awesome, that weapon rarely gets any love at all).

AslanCross
2008-04-10, 05:55 AM
Yeah, adding stuff to the weapon lists doesn't really break anything. For example, I could totally see the maul and greathammer working with Stone Dragon. The Elven blades would easily fit Diamond Mind and probably Desert Wind. Most of the damage will be coming from your maneuvers anyway.

RTGoodman
2008-04-10, 07:40 AM
Also, I can't imagine a DM that wouldn't allow Crusaders to treat their deity's favored weapon as a favored weapon for at least Devoted Spirit, and probably any other school to which they have access.

Ascension
2008-04-10, 01:44 PM
Thankfully, Bloodclaw Master allows also for dual-wield daggers.

Why dual-wield daggers when you can dual-wield keen kukris?

Hadrian_Emrys
2008-04-10, 02:18 PM
Because kukris are the misbegotten spawn of the unholy union of a dagger and an axe perhaps? How does anyone feel like a hero/anti-hero/villian when they are swinging about what appears to be a modified bladed metal boomerang in melee? Cletus, the moonshine addled drunken master dwarf, looks more impressive wailing on foes (with a broken bottle) in stubby limbed glee!

Artanis
2008-04-10, 02:23 PM
Because kukris are the misbegotten spawn of the unholy union of a dagger and an axe perhaps? How does anyone feel like a hero/anti-hero/villian when they are swinging about what appears to be a modified bladed metal boomerang in melee? Cletus, the moonshine addled drunken master dwarf, looks more impressive wailing on foes (with a broken bottle) in stubby limbed glee!
Because real-life Kukris are seriously nasty weapons that can decapitate a person pretty easily.

Stabby
2008-04-10, 02:27 PM
Never met a real ghurka have you? Those guys are freakin SCARY!

Seriously though, I've met a couple. I agree that a kukri is funny looking, but I'm not about to tell them that.

playswithfire
2008-04-10, 02:31 PM
Why dual-wield daggers when you can dual-wield keen kukris?

So I can use my shadow blade feat

Hadrian_Emrys
2008-04-10, 06:22 PM
You don't know what scary is. My dad was a freedom fighter in Cambodia, specialized in gorilla warfare. I watched a man plead for his life, and the lives of his entire family, just because he saw my patron walking in their direction. It had been 20 years since he left the country, and still he was treated like the boogyman by those who participated in the brutal communist uprising.

All dad was doing was just showing me the house he grew up in. No intimidation, no threats, not even a shred of ill will. Hell, he was almost in tears as he smiled, just because he was seeing "home" again. Weapons are just tools, it's people that are scary.

A kukri is a silly looking tool, regardless of it's lethality in the hands of a capable combatant. It's the flying guillotine (sp) of melee weapons. Only, ya know, non-fictional.

Grynning
2008-04-10, 10:48 PM
On the subject of the Kukri, it really bugs me how D&D seems to lump them in with Middle Eastern weaponry. The Kukri is from Nepal, which is a mountainous, temperate region, not very much like the Persian Empire on which most of the D&D Middle Eastern stuff is based. Then again, they also included Indian weapons and armor in Oriental adventures, so w/e.

I prefer to use weapon group proficiencies, because they make more sense, and I think that a lot of weapons D&D classifies as exotic are really fairly simple to use (as someone pointed out above, a Siangham really is just a pointy stick). A Kukri is just a fancy hatchet or machete. An effective weapon, yes, but they're nothing particularly "exotic" about using one - you swing it at stuff, stuff gets hacked up.

Eldariel
2008-04-10, 11:13 PM
It seems stupidly intentional that Tiger Claw doesn't have a light 18-20 weapon as a favoured weapon, since Blood in Water is a Tiger Claw-stance and there're all those Bloodclaw Master-goodies, and I figure they thought it would be too good to be able to combine them all :/

Really, the one thing I dislike about ToB is that they printed Shadow Blade instead of just generic 'Improved Weapon Finesse', which would allow applying Dex to Damage with any Finessable weapon instead of being very specific Shadow Hand-feat requiring to be in an SH stance to work. Luckily DM can rule 0 that. Of course, there's so much good in the book that such small issue drowns in the sea of goodies.

NEO|Phyte
2008-04-10, 11:23 PM
It seems stupidly intentional that Tiger Claw doesn't have a light 18-20 weapon as a favoured weapon, since Blood in Water is a Tiger Claw-stance and there're all those Bloodclaw Master-goodies, and I figure they thought it would be too good to be able to combine them all :/

Uhh, last I checked, Tiger Claw had the kukri, which is a light 18-20 weapon.

The kukri is also a martial, not exotic, weapon, last I checked.

alexi
2008-04-10, 11:51 PM
"You don't know what scary is. My dad was a freedom fighter in Cambodia, specialized in gorilla warfare. I watched a man plead for his life, and the lives of his entire family, just because he saw my patron walking in their direction. It had been 20 years since he left the country, and still he was treated like the boogyman by those who participated in the brutal communist uprising."

Calling bull on pretty much all of this. I've lived in Cambodia, unless your dad was a soldier at Choeung Ek I doubt anyone would be that scared of him, even then some one would have just taken him out once it got around who he was. It would be very unlikely for anyone to even know who he was considering 3/4 of all Cambodians in Cambodia were born after 1975 (about 350,000 Cambodians are still alive who were born before Year Zero). Taking into account the purges that wiped out KR military officers, and politicians during both the reign of the KR and during the Vietnamese backed period there are very very few who left "who participated in the brutal communist uprising", and most of those fled to China or North Korea after 1979

Those who fought against the Khmer Rouge were hardly "Freedom" fighters, they were siding with Sihanouk's government (the status quo and decidedly not free). Just as you couldn't call the White Russians who fought against the Oct. Revolution freedom fighters. After the fall of Phnom Penh, there was virtually no opposition to the Khmer Rouge, people were to busy starving to death. The fall of the Khmer Rouge was at the hands of the Vietnamese not "freedom fighters", who had had enough of Cambodians encroachment on what it considered it's territory. Though the Vietnamese claimed that they were just backing KNUFNS (anti Khmer Rouge group based in Vietnam) the truth was that KNUFNS was just Khmer Rouge officers who had been purged by Pol Pot.

bosssmiley
2008-04-11, 08:45 AM
alexi, Hadrian - a little worried you might be skirting the lines of RL politics here. Let's please keep it on topic before the mods amble in to give us all a timeout. Cheers.

As for kukris, love 'em as weapons and as cultural artefacts. They're like those Malay parangs, both in egronomics, and in that they look a little risible until the guy does something implausibly epic with them.

I just wish, wish, wish with all my heart that the guys who draw them in DnD art would learn how they're used. The malignantly suckritudinous Black Flame Zealot dual-kukri-wielder artwork in particular makes me a sad Eggy. On the bright side, you can get 20 Gurkhas wetting themselves laughing with just one image link (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cd_gallery/81339.jpg). :smallbiggrin:


...but then I realized that with his deity, he could take Fire Devotion and light himself on fire to deal additional damage to his enemies. I think that gives +2 Intimidate just from circumstance bonus. This is why so many feats in D&D don't get used; there's always more awesome ones out there.

I have found my new 'mandatory for every character I make' feat! Gotta love ToB. :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

JaxGaret
2008-04-11, 09:42 AM
In 3.0, I had a Minotaur character whose main weapon was a Huge Kukri that he wielded in two hands. The thing weighed 150 pounds, IIRC.

Ah, 3.0. Good times.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-04-11, 10:19 AM
I have found my new 'mandatory for every character I make' feat! Gotta love ToB. :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:Actually, that's Fire Devotion from Complete Champion (the feats section of that book almost justifies buying it. Almost). Although I'm positive there's a Desert Wind maneuver that does something similar.

Actually, now that I look at it, The Silver Flame doesn't actually have Fire as a domain. Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Fortunately I'm the DM of this game, so I can just say it does. I mean, seriously...look at the damn name.

This post had nothing to do with the topic, and I apologize.

Mark Hall
2008-04-11, 12:37 PM
In 3.0, I had a Minotaur character whose main weapon was a Huge Kukri that he wielded in two hands. The thing weighed 150 pounds, IIRC.

Ah, 3.0. Good times.

Actually, the Nepalese have a sword called a Kora (http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1786), which is essentially a sword version of a kukri.