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View Full Version : Van Helsing, sans crossbow [Weapon, PEACH]



TheGeek
2008-04-14, 11:51 AM
http://www.funshop.com/images/fs_r594_l.jpg

Tojo Blade [Light Martial]
Cost: 250 gp
Dmg(s): 1d6
Dmg(m): 1d8
Crit: 18-20/x2
Weight: 2 lb.
Type: Slashing

Special:
Before use, the Tojo blade must be pumped
with the fingers as a move action, or as a
free action during another move action (as
per drawing a weapon during a move). This
sets the blade spinning, turning it into
a sawblade-like weapon. Each successful
hit (whether it deals damage or not) adds
a cumulative -2 penalty to damage *(minimum
1+modifiers), which can be removed in one of
two ways: Either by pumping the weapon again,
as per above (thereby removing all of the penalty),
or by pumping as a swift action, which only
negates 2 points the circumstance penalty.

On a critical fumble, a Tojo blade has a 50% chance
of being dropped as normal, per critical fumble rules,
or jambing up, causing the weapon to not spin
(thereby reducing the damage to 1d4+modifiers).
It can be restored to full functionality with a
Craft (Architecture and Engineering) check, DC 15.
This is a full-round action that provokes attacks of
opportunity, and requires both hands. Performing
this check without tools imposes a -2 circumstance
penalty on the repair check.

*This is to prevent the weapon from dealing less
damage than your strength modifier--Even if the
blade is barely spinning, it should still deal SOME
damage, right (There may be a better way to
implement this--any ideas)?

------------------------------

What do you all think?
I'm not sure about damage, might change it to 1d6.
I sort of guessed the price based on other weapons, and how this one compares.

I have a feeling the running-out-of-inertia, needing-to-pump mechanic is a little dicey--thoughts?

Thanks for your time!

Proteus
2008-04-15, 04:00 AM
First things first, this should probably be an exotic weapon.
Second, can you explain why the "cumulative -2 penalty to damage" exists?
Third, I'm not seeing any real reason for anyone to use this weapon. What is better about this weapon than say, a longsword?

DracoDei
2008-04-15, 07:38 AM
Pumping because the blades lose angular momentum and have to be speed up again.
It has a better critical threat range than a longsword and is a light weapon to boot, meaning you can dual wield them (Val Helsing did in the movie) and you only need one weapon focus, weapons specialization, and/or improved critical feat. Or even just the prospect of wielding one in your off hand with a longsword in the other is attractive. If it weren't for the pumping this would actually be overpowered, as it is I think it is about right.

Secondly, I can see an adventurer walking down a dungeon corridor, no enemies in sight, with pumping these things to remain ready just in case... while a totally valid tactic this brings up several points:

Pumping should be allowed as part of a move action (so you can walk and pump at the same time without reducing your speed).
Needs a DC to detect the whirring sound they give off to give one drawback to this. Higher quality versions might give of less noise than normal ones. Probably should be seperate upgrade from masterwork.
As the GM, after about 10 minutes I am going to put a nod to how geared up these things must be (and thus how hard you have to squeeze them) in in the form of some Fort. Saves (or maybe even flat Constitution checks) to avoid the wielders hands giving out or cramping up. Pre defined rules for this might be good to have.
Depending on the quality, these things might tend to seize after a few hours of spinning time without maintenance.

TheGeek
2008-04-15, 04:43 PM
Pumping because the blades lose angular momentum and have to be speed up again.
<Snip>


Exactly, thank you.

Edit: Refresh my memory on angular momentum? For some reason, I'm thinking, IIRC, that it should be tangential/rotational momentum, but it's been a long time since I've read or done any physics. I could be totally wrong.



It has a better critical threat range than a longsword and is a light weapon...
<Snip>

Again, thank you.




Pumping should be allowed as part of a move action (so you can walk and pump at the same time without reducing your speed).
Needs a DC to detect the whirring sound they give off to give one drawback to this. Higher quality versions might give of less noise than normal ones. Probably should be seperate upgrade from masterwork.
As the GM, after about 10 minutes I am going to put a nod to how geared up these things must be (and thus how hard you have to squeeze them) in in the form of some Fort. Saves (or maybe even flat Constitution checks) to avoid the wielders hands giving out or cramping up. Pre defined rules for this might be good to have.
Depending on the quality, these things might tend to seize after a few hours of spinning time without maintenance.

Re: part of a move action: Agreed, I think so too. *edit*
Re: Listen DC: Perhaps, but I think unless the character is moving silently, they would make about as much noise from walking as from the blades, no?
Re: Fort save: I think, realistically, this would make sense, but let's remember that there's some magico-/technolo-babble explaining how these things actually work (and wouldn't in real life), and I don't want to complicate things too, too much.
Re: Seizing up: I think this is how a critical fumble can work.

Thank you for the advice! Any others?

DracoDei
2008-04-15, 07:10 PM
You are welcome.
Random Sidenote: I haven't seen fumble rules on this board. Ideally critical fumbles should match mechanics vs fluff as far as what helps avoid them (if anything). Equipment quality (and simplicity?) should affect equipment failure type results, whereas character traits should effect operator error.

TheGeek
2008-04-15, 08:06 PM
Sorry, kinda tired, but I'm not sure if that's a suggestion or not.

If so, are you saying I should change what happens on the fumble? I wrote the jam mechanic just for flavor. Would it be better to just drop it on a fumble?

By the by:
I don't think fumbles are in the core rules--though most DM's I've known rule that if a natural 1 is followed by anything less than a 10 (for a confirmation roll-sort of a reverse critical), then a "critical fumble" occurs (usually dropping the weapon). Otherwise, just a normal miss.

DracoDei
2008-04-15, 10:12 PM
Yeah, it was a suggestion... I will point out that your rule would make it LESS problematic to fumble (you can still do 1d4+Modifiers with it although it is harder to fix than just picking something up off the ground) despite the fact that it is MORE complex (and thus subject to jams if not well maintained IN ADDITION to the possibility of dropping it)...

TheGeek
2008-04-16, 06:25 AM
Ah. Well, I know that. Perhaps on a natural one followed by anything more than ten, it jams, but on a roll of a natural one followed by anything less than a ten, it jams, then you drop it?

Skelengar
2008-04-16, 08:58 AM
I am coming out of lurking just to say that this is awesome.

I would say that the above ten, jams, below ten, drops thing is good.

DracoDei
2008-04-16, 01:31 PM
I think it shoudl either jam OR get dropped but never both at the same time. But I agree that having both as possibilities is good.

TheGeek
2008-04-17, 03:32 PM
Thanks, will edit..

What about price? Is it too cheap? Just right (I doubt it's too expensive)?

DracoDei
2008-04-17, 03:48 PM
Now that I look at it I think it is very low, given that it is approximately as complex as a Repeater Crossbow from an engineering standpoint. I would say 200 gp at least.

Skelengar
2008-04-17, 05:49 PM
I just noticed this, but it talks about strength modifiers, when it should be dex modifiers, since it's a ranged weapon.

DracoDei
2008-04-17, 06:15 PM
No, is a melee weapon.

TheGeek
2008-04-17, 06:58 PM
Now that I look at it I think it is very low, given that it is approximately as complex as a Repeater Crossbow from an engineering standpoint. I would say 200 gp at least.

From a balance standpoint, as well as a flavory standpoint, 200? If no one lurking pipes up and disagrees, I'll change it.

And yes, it's a melee weapon.

Whoa, just realized that this spellchecker doesn't recognize "melee" as a word. Weird, huh?

EDIT: Made it 250 gp just to be safe.

mikeejimbo
2008-04-17, 07:07 PM
I think technically, it needs an accent on one of the e's. But I can never remember which accent or which e.

TheGeek
2008-04-17, 08:42 PM
Right!

Mle is the original French, IIRC.

And the spellchecker doesn't seem to have a problem with that one, although typing those accents is a pain unless you have them hotkeyed somehow.

Skelengar
2008-04-18, 11:19 AM
Oops. It's been a while sence I saw van helsing.

TheGeek
2008-04-18, 04:17 PM
It's been a while for me, but when I see a cool gadget I remember it for much longer than the person holding it.

Any other thoughts, or is it now safe to playtest?