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Pandaren
2008-04-15, 10:02 PM
Big problem I've come upon. I've always known that is a sourcebook doesn't have the answer, I can, as a DM, just choose the answer I believe to be the best. But I'm in a complete gray area as to my new dilema.

Epic Seeds, specifically, the combination of the Conjure, Fortify, and Life seeds to create a new species. What are the limitis, can you create a completely new species, can you create an intelligent one?


((Figured this thread was best for Gaming than Homebrew since its a question and not a....homebrew thing.))

Collin152
2008-04-15, 10:04 PM
Pies the limits with Epic Magic.
Ye could originate Tarrasques, even.
Permitting you to Shapechange into one.

Pandaren
2008-04-15, 10:11 PM
A tarrasque...........

God.......imagine a hecatoncherires...swarm.

Though, I still have the idea that, eventually, there has to be a higher cost than just the epic seeds, a sacrifice, and for it to be under your control you'd need to mix in a Compel seed, wouldn't you?

Collin152
2008-04-15, 10:13 PM
A tarrasque...........

God.......imagine a hecatoncherires...swarm.

Though, I still have the idea that, eventually, there has to be a higher cost than just the epic seeds, a sacrifice, and for it to be under your control you'd need to mix in a Compel seed, wouldn't you?

Compel, Delude, it doesn't take much to put the entire species under your direct control.
You could just specify that they have no free will and only obey your commands.

Pandaren
2008-04-15, 10:14 PM
Interesting, thanks for the help. Just hoping the players don't start thinking sky-high like you.

Prometheus
2008-04-15, 10:16 PM
The conjure seed can be used in conjunction with the life and fortify seeds for an epic spell that creates an entirely new creature, if made permanent. To give a creature spell-like abilities, apply other epic seeds to the epic spell that replicate the desired ability. To give the creature a supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than a spell-like ability, double the cost of the relevant seed. Remember that two doublings equals a tripling, and so forth. To give a creature Hit Dice, use the fortify seed. Each 5 hit points granted to the creature gives it an additional 1 HD. Once successfully created, the new creature will breed true.
Fortify (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/fortify.htm)

The newly living object, intelligent animal, or sentient plant is friendly toward the caster. An object or plant has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are all 3d6. Animated objects and plants gain the ability to move their limbs, projections, roots, carved legs and arms, or other appendages, and have senses similar to a humanís.
If you want to RAW the answer are there. You conjure up a shape, animate it as an animated object, it's mental stats are each 3d6, and you can add abilities to it with Fortify and other seeds. While it never does say if you are limited only to constructs as an animated object would suggest, I think the special case would allow the creature to animated as a different type.

The Tarrasque would have to be mimicked from the bottom up, by my interpretation, in which case it would be just as easy to instead make something else. The advantage is that they are naturally friendly and make more of themselves.

One thing that it never does say is the breeding rate, and if you were allowed to bend the rules, than you could make your newly created species breed like bacteria. A more reasonable DM, I imagine, would say that the only way to sustain such a breeding rate would be with the enormous intake of food, in which case you'd have to do some work.

Pandaren
2008-04-15, 10:25 PM
That would be an interesting homebrew actually.......

Yeah, i have a copy of the ELC right next to me, missed that last part on the last seed, mainly looking at the sidebar. The first quote you have. But you already know that.

Emperor Tippy
2008-04-15, 10:31 PM
You can do real fun things with origin of the species.


To give a creature spell-like abilities, apply other epic seeds to the epic spell that replicate the desired ability. To give the creature a supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than a spell-like ability, double the cost of the relevant seed.

Those two lines allow so much fun. Think of any epic spell you want, add it as an Ex ability to your creature. Then add in a True Mind Switch ability. Order it to switch minds with you. Oh since you get to decided reproduction and the like, make it an at will budding process that takes 1 round. Then mind switch with the one who was born (don't want Origin of the Species to be dispellable).