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Kizara
2008-04-17, 07:42 PM
From my Tome of House Rules v1.5, list of PHB class rebalances and remakes.

Note, my desire here is not to reinvent the wheel.

Barbarian:
-Trap Sense is now Danger Sense and applies to the barbarianís AC and Reflex saves in every situation, including combat. (he still loses Dodge bonuses to AC when appropriate)
-Increase DR progression by 2. Thus, granting DR 4/- at 10th-level.
-Gain Knowledge (history) and Spot as class skills.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Bard:

-Add 2 spells per day to each spell level in his progression.
-Pick 3 additional 1-handed melee or ranged martial weapons. You are now proficient with those weapons.
-Gain Forgery as a class skill.

Cleric:

-Domains outside those in the PHB will be reviewed on an individual basis, with the default being that they are banned.
-If you do not wish to worship a deity, it is suggested that you still select one for the purpose of choosing domains. You must meet the normal alignment restriction for worshiping the selected deity. RP-wise, this deity has no relevance to you.
If this cannot work for you, your concept will be reviewed on an individual basis.
-Gain Sense Motive as a class skill.
-Gain 1 free rank in Speak Celestial, Infernal or Abyssal (according to alignment)

Druid:

-Spontaneous Summoning is removed. You may still prepare and cast summoning spells as desired.
-Gain Proficiency with all martial bows.
-Wild Shape forms and Animal Companions are restricted to MM1 sources only. Specific exceptions may be made.
-Wild Shape (large) is obtained at 11th-level, Wild Shape (tiny) is obtained at 13th-level, Wild Shape (huge) is obtained at 15th-level.
-Wild Shape does not grant any healing or restoration.
-Bump animal companion progression chart forward 2 steps, so you donít receive 1st-level benefits until 5th level, and so forth. This effects when you can have a more powerful companion as well. You still start with your companion at level 1, however, and you still gain link at level 1.
-Share Spells with animal companion is removed.
-If your animal companion dies, you may not replace him until a period of morning equal to 1 month + 1 month per 2 levels.
-Gain Knowledge (geography) as a class skill.

Fighter:

-Gain +1 to weapon attack rolls at 3rd level and every three levels thereafter (6th, 9th, etc).
-Gain +1 to weapon damage rolls at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, etc)
-Gain Defensive Combat: You may subtract a number from your attack rolls and add it to your AC as a Dodge bonus. This number may not exceed your fighter level. Does not stack with Combat Expertise.
-Gain Armor Specialization as a free bonus feat at level 6.
-Gain 1 of Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude at level 7.
-Gain Uncanny Dodge at level 9.
-Gain Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 13.
-Gain a +1 Armor bonus to AC (stacks with normal armor) while wearing heavy armor at 6th-level and every 6 levels thereafter (12th,18th).
-Gain Concentration as a class skill.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Monk:

-You may use Flurry of Blows as part of an attack action.
-If you fail an attack roll while attempting Stunning Fist, the use is not wasted.
-You may Power Attack at a 1:1 ratio with your unarmed strike as part of an attack or full-action action.
-Whenever your Ki Strike progression improves, gain a +1 enhancement bonus to damage (in addition to the listed benefits)
-Lose Knowledge (arcane) and gain Knowledge (history) as class skills.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Ranger:

- ĎDropí spell casting progression by 4 levels, granting 1st-level spells at level 1. A 5th-level spell list will be created.
-Increase spells per-day progression by 1 per spell level. Granting 1 base spell per-day instead of 0, 3 instead of 2, and so forth.
-Bump animal companion progression chart forward 1 step, so you donít receive 4thst-level benefits until 6th level, and so forth. This effects when you can have a more powerful companion as well. You still start with your companion at level 4, however, and you still gain link at level 4.
-Animal companion level is based off relative druid level.
-Share Spells with animal companion is removed.
-Gain Balance, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sense Motive as class skills.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Rogue:

-Special Ability progression starts at level 8 instead of level 10.
-Gain Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.

Sorcerer:

-Pick 1 martial weapon, you are proficient with that weapon.
-Gain +1 spell known per spell level.
-Gain Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Knowledge (the planes) as class skills.
-You may replace a current spell known for another every time you level up, and this spell may be of any level you can cast.
-Gain Eschew Materials as a free bonus feat, at level 1.
-Gain Improved Familiar at level 4, you may re-summon your familiar at this time with no penalty.
-Gain Arcane Spell Power at 6th, 12th and 18th level, adding +1 to spell DCs.
-Gain Metamagic Familiarity at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level: At each level, choose a metamagic feat that you know, that feat costs 1 spell level less to apply, and doesnít require extra time to cast (as normal for spontaneous casters). You may not select the same feat multiple times. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier.

Sorcerer Variant: Metamagic Secret

When you would normally gain Metamagic Familiarity, you may instead gain Metamagic Secret:
Choose from Enlarge Spell, Empower Spell, Energy Substitution, Extend Spell, Still Spell, Silent Spell, and Widen Spell. You may apply that metamagic feat to a single spell that you know at no increase to its spell level or casting time. The spell, once chosen, is permanent. You may chose the same spell multiple times for different metamagic feats. You may choose a different metamagic feat each time, or the same one multiple times and apply it to different spells.


Wizard:

-Gain Appraise and Forgery as class skills.
-Gain 1 free rank in Speak Language (Draconic).

Corncracker
2008-04-17, 08:20 PM
I made some notes for you. I slashed out things I think should be dropped and gave explanations why.


From my Tome of House Rules v1.5, list of PHB class rebalances and remakes.

Note, my desire here is not to reinvent the wheel.

Barbarian:
-Trap Sense is now Danger Sense and applies to the barbarianís AC and Reflex saves in every situation, including combat. (he still loses Dodge bonuses to AC when appropriate)
-Increase DR progression by 2. Thus, granting DR 4/- at 10th-level.
-Gain Knowledge (history) and(I can't think of a single reason why a Barbarian would have any knowledge of history, as they are illiterate) Spot as class skills.
(-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Bard:

-Add 2 spells per day to each spell level in his progression.
-Pick 3 additional 1-handed melee or ranged martial weapons. You are now proficient with those weapons.
-Gain Forgery as a class skill.(Bards don't need more weapons, nor does adding forgery really make much sense given their nature.)

Cleric:

[/s]-Domains outside those in the PHB will be reviewed on an individual basis, with the default being that they are banned. [/s](If you want domains banned, list specific ones.)
-If you do not wish to worship a deity, it is suggested that you still select one for the purpose of choosing domains. You must meet the normal alignment restriction for worshiping the selected deity. RP-wise, this deity has no relevance to you.
If this cannot work for you, your concept will be reviewed on an individual basis.(Instead, I think wording it like "Select a Diety that matches your alignment description, and your domains are treated as though that was your diety." would work better.)
-Gain Sense Motive as a class skill.
-Gain 1 free rank in Speak Celestial, Infernal or Abyssal (according to alignment)(Free Ranks don't make much sense. Something like this should be learned by choice. Not given to them for free.)

Druid:

-Spontaneous Summoning is removed. You may still prepare and cast summoning spells as desired.
-Gain Proficiency with all martial bows.
-Wild Shape forms and Animal Companions are restricted to MM1 sources only. Specific exceptions may be made.(I'm against limiting people like this when there are so many other fun things that can be done.)
-Wild Shape (large) is obtained at 11th-level, Wild Shape (tiny) is obtained at 13th-level, Wild Shape (huge) is obtained at 15th-level.
-Wild Shape does not grant any healing or restoration.
-Bump animal companion progression chart forward 2 steps, so you donít receive 1st-level benefits until 5th level, and so forth. This effects when you can have a more powerful companion as well. You still start with your companion at level 1, however, and you still gain link at level 1.
-Share Spells with animal companion is removed.
-If your animal companion dies, you may not replace him until a period of morning equal to 1 month + 1 month per 2 levels. (I see no reason for this ability)
-Gain Knowledge (geography) as a class skill.

Fighter:

-Gain +1 to weapon attack rolls at 3rd level and every three levels thereafter (6th, 9th, etc).
-Gain +1 to weapon damage rolls at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, etc)
-Gain Defensive Combat: You may subtract a number from your attack rolls and add it to your AC as a Dodge bonus. This number may not exceed your fighter level. Does not stack with Combat Expertise.
-Gain Armor Specialization as a free bonus feat at level 6.
-Gain 1 of Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude at level 7.
-Gain Uncanny Dodge at level 9.
-Gain Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 13. (Fighter bonus feats are made to take care of many of these things.)
-Gain a +1 Armor bonus to AC (stacks with normal armor) while wearing heavy armor at 6th-level and every 6 levels thereafter (12th,18th).
-Gain Concentration as a class skill.Fighters don't need to concentrate.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Monk:

-You may use Flurry of Blows as part of an attack action.
-If you fail an attack roll while attempting Stunning Fist, the use is not wasted.
-You may Power Attack at a 1:1 ratio with your unarmed strike as part of an attack or full-action action.
-Whenever your Ki Strike progression improves, gain a +1 enhancement bonus to damage (in addition to the listed benefits)
-Lose Knowledge (arcane) and gain Knowledge (history) as class skills.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Rogue:

-Special Ability progression starts at level 8 instead of level 10.
-Gain Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.

Sorcerer:

-Pick 1 martial weapon, you are proficient with that weapon. (No reason to make this class more MArtial oriented.)
-Gain +1 spell known per spell level.
-Gain Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Knowledge (the planes) as class skills.
-You may replace a current spell known for another every time you level up, and this spell may be of any level you can cast. (Sorcers don't get their powers from another source, so it doesn't make sense if they can just forget a spell and replace it with another.)
-Gain Eschew Materials as a free bonus feat, at level 1.
-Gain Improved Familiar at level 4, you may re-summon your familiar at this time with no penalty.
-Gain Arcane Spell Power at 6th, 12th and 18th level, adding +1 to spell DCs.
-Gain Metamagic Familiarity at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level: At each level, choose a metamagic feat that you know, that feat costs 1 spell level less to apply, and doesnít require extra time to cast (as normal for spontaneous casters). You may not select the same feat multiple times. This sounds really freaking powerful.)

Wizard:

-Gain Appraise and Forgery as class skills.
-Gain 1 free rank in Speak Language (Draconic).(Same reasoning of the free ranks, and Forgery doesn't even make sense for a Wizard Class Skill. Possibley Appraise does, but thats to much of a stretch.)

Kizara
2008-04-17, 08:46 PM
I made some notes for you. I slashed out things I think should be dropped and gave explanations why.

First off, while I appreciate a critique I find this introduction presumptous and midly offensive. It comes across as "this is what you did wrong, be sure to correct your mistakes now".

As to your 'notes':

1) Barbarians getting know (history) is to represent the oral traditions of various indigenious peoples and tribes. Telling of the history of the ancestors and the feats of great warriors of old was a huge part of their culture. Knowledge of history isn't necessarily academic study.

2a) I disagree that bards don't need better weapon profs, as part of being a jack-of-all-trades is being able to use decent weapons, if not terribly well.

2b) Considering that bards have alot to do with written material (poetry, stories, songs, folklore etc) and are also a subtle/sneaky/underhanded class, I would strongly disagree that it's "against their nature".

3a) I'm essentially saying I'm banning all non-phb ones until I have the time to go through them all. Recall there are ALOT of supplimental domains.

3b) I originally had something similar to that that, but I added the exceptions in because many people complained that they had a character concept that would require more flexibility. Also, it follows the diction style of other material. Thus, the more verboise but flexible wording.
I still agree however that simple and straightforward is more ideal then verboise, inclusive and flexible.

3c) This doesn't make sense because you don't know my language system, I recommend you ignore it for the moment. If you are very interested in my language system, I can dig up the old thread for it.

4a) Then give me a better idea beyond "use shapeshift phb2 variant" which is just as limiting. If you feel fleshrakers are cool in your game, then we have different ideas of 'balanced'.

4b) It's so its not used as a disposable reasource. At least I didn't make you lose XP like if your familiar dies. Considering the companion mechanics, it wouldn't be much of a stretch logically.

5a) Fighter still has its bonus feats, these are additional buffs and free feats. I'd like a better reason to remove them then "but he gets feats!". Not to mention, the save-booster feats arent on the fighter's feat list, and uncanny dodge isnt a feat at all.

5b) This is for compliance with the PHB2 Combat Focus feats, which I am re-working to use Concentration. Yes, otherwise giving a caster skill like that to the fighter would be a bit silly.

6a) They already can do this, I just made it more practical. Compare to a wizard-style preparation.

6b) Compare it to a wizard's free metamagic feat progression, and keep in mind they are still inferior casters to the wizard.

7a) How the heck does Forgery not make sense as a skill for the most scholastic class in the game? They deal with written material constantly, its integral to their training, abilities and progression. Honestly, if wizards shouldn't have forgery, nobody should. Rogues with their sneaky nature have an equally strong but different reason to have this skill, not better.

SofS
2008-04-17, 10:24 PM
I really like the barbarian's Danger Sense. If it weren't likely unbalancing, I'd suggest making it an Initiative bonus too.

The fighter's Combat Expertise replacement ability might have power issues, as a mid-level fighter could use it to gain an insanely high AC. Also, one of the main benefits of Combat Expertise is that it leads to many useful feats. I would suggest that the fighter can use this feat for prerequisites unless that contradicts other considerations of yours.

Unarmed attacks, by the PHB, already Power Attack at a 1:1 ratio. They're a specific exception to the rule about light weapons. Maybe the monk could instead treat an unarmed strike as a two-handed weapon under certain circumstances?

These are neat overall. I like the fact that they're focused on detail much of the time. I never could figure out why rogues didn't get Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.

Kizara
2008-04-17, 10:52 PM
I really like the barbarian's Danger Sense. If it weren't likely unbalancing, I'd suggest making it an Initiative bonus too.

The fighter's Combat Expertise replacement ability might have power issues, as a mid-level fighter could use it to gain an insanely high AC. Also, one of the main benefits of Combat Expertise is that it leads to many useful feats. I would suggest that the fighter can use this feat for prerequisites unless that contradicts other considerations of yours.

Unarmed attacks, by the PHB, already Power Attack at a 1:1 ratio. They're a specific exception to the rule about light weapons. Maybe the monk could instead treat an unarmed strike as a two-handed weapon under certain circumstances?

These are neat overall. I like the fact that they're focused on detail much of the time. I never could figure out why rogues didn't get Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.

1) Not a bad idea for the Danger Sense, I'll consider it. I feel the game is generally a bit too generous with Initiative boosters though.

2) Yes, he could get a very high AC by having a bad to-hit rate and no power attack damage. This isn't really overpowered, as he becomes a super tank without much ability to do anything if he does this. Its a situationally great option, but honestly I like giving them this trick in their bag. As for having it qualify for stuff, I'll consider that.

3) Oops... yeah, I never actually play Monks. That is simply an oversight, thanks for catching that.

4) Thank you very much, I strive to make my work detailed, consistant and were-possible elegant.

Valairn
2008-04-17, 11:05 PM
I'm a fan of the fighter and sorcerer changes, thank you for posting this, its always nice to see another person's take on balancing the core classes.

Kizara
2008-04-17, 11:07 PM
I'm a fan of the fighter and sorcerer changes, thank you for posting this, its always nice to see another person's take on balancing the core classes.

Thank you and you are very welcome.

Corncracker
2008-04-17, 11:19 PM
First off, while I appreciate a critique I find this introduction presumptous and midly offensive. It comes across as "this is what you did wrong, be sure to correct your mistakes now".

As to your 'notes':

1) Barbarians getting know (history) is to represent the oral traditions of various indigenious peoples and tribes. Telling of the history of the ancestors and the feats of great warriors of old was a huge part of their culture. Knowledge of history isn't necessarily academic study.

2a) I disagree that bards don't need better weapon profs, as part of being a jack-of-all-trades is being able to use decent weapons, if not terribly well.

2b) Considering that bards have alot to do with written material (poetry, stories, songs, folklore etc) and are also a subtle/sneaky/underhanded class, I would strongly disagree that it's "against their nature".

3a) I'm essentially saying I'm banning all non-phb ones until I have the time to go through them all. Recall there are ALOT of supplimental domains.

3b) I originally had something similar to that that, but I added the exceptions in because many people complained that they had a character concept that would require more flexibility. Also, it follows the diction style of other material. Thus, the more verboise but flexible wording.
I still agree however that simple and straightforward is more ideal then verboise, inclusive and flexible.

3c) This doesn't make sense because you don't know my language system, I recommend you ignore it for the moment. If you are very interested in my language system, I can dig up the old thread for it.

4a) Then give me a better idea beyond "use shapeshift phb2 variant" which is just as limiting. If you feel fleshrakers are cool in your game, then we have different ideas of 'balanced'.

4b) It's so its not used as a disposable reasource. At least I didn't make you lose XP like if your familiar dies. Considering the companion mechanics, it wouldn't be much of a stretch logically.

5a) Fighter still has its bonus feats, these are additional buffs and free feats. I'd like a better reason to remove them then "but he gets feats!". Not to mention, the save-booster feats arent on the fighter's feat list, and uncanny dodge isnt a feat at all.

5b) This is for compliance with the PHB2 Combat Focus feats, which I am re-working to use Concentration. Yes, otherwise giving a caster skill like that to the fighter would be a bit silly.

6a) They already can do this, I just made it more practical. Compare to a wizard-style preparation.

6b) Compare it to a wizard's free metamagic feat progression, and keep in mind they are still inferior casters to the wizard.

7a) How the heck does Forgery not make sense as a skill for the most scholastic class in the game? They deal with written material constantly, its integral to their training, abilities and progression. Honestly, if wizards shouldn't have forgery, nobody should. Rogues with their sneaky nature have an equally strong but different reason to have this skill, not better.

Sorry if that came off as rude, I realized I had to run do something when I wrote that top part in, as I did it after the notes. Didn't pay much attention to how it sounded, but I had already went through your list of changes.


1a)And I can see where you're coming from with Barbarian learning history, but that could apply to anyone. You could pass that reasoning off for just being alive. A Class really has nothing to do with it.

To be honest, it would make more sense in a civilized society, as they have schools that teach things.

2a) The whole thing about Bards needing better weapons is reasonable, but I find him to have a plenty useful weapons selection for what he does. Light, easy to use weapons, but thats just me. :p

2b) I can see the forgery argument, but Bards never come across to me as being the tricksy type.

3a) Fair enough.

3c) Ah, so you use a different system. If thats the case, pay no attention to that comment. :p

4a) Druids in Core, with Just MM 1 are broken. While removing books helps a bit, the inherent problems with druids power still exist if thats all your doing.

4b) Logically it seems like a bit of a stretch to me, but this just seems to be a different perspective on things.

5a) I should have elaborated more on my reasoning there. The fighter has so many different feets to chose from it gives him a lot of options for different builds. It just feels awkward to start giving him specific kinds of abilities, all of which are all about defense.

5b) As before, since it's for altered Mechanics reasons, it's all good.

6a) I don't recall Sorcerors being able to change what spells they know. I'll re-read the sorceror hear in a while then.

6b) Thats an argument that the wizard is better as he is right now, which I kinda find flaws as of course the wizard is better, they are overpowered.

7a) forgery doesn't make sense because a Wizard studies how to create MAgic Scrolls, they study magic, and logicaly all sorts of different knowledges, as that is a key part of what a Wizard typically is.

They do not study how to successfully mimic and create fake documents containing believalbe and/or false information.

Just because I've read a lot of books, filled out a lot of forms, and seen many different kinds of ID's does not mean I will be able to forge a fake one. That is another skill on it's own.

Kizara
2008-04-17, 11:38 PM
7a) forgery doesn't make sense because a Wizard studies how to create MAgic Scrolls, they study magic, and logicaly all sorts of different knowledges, as that is a key part of what a Wizard typically is.

They do not study how to successfully mimic and create fake documents containing believalbe and/or false information.

Just because I've read a lot of books, filled out a lot of forms, and seen many different kinds of ID's does not mean I will be able to forge a fake one. That is another skill on it's own.

Having something as a class skill isn't the same as having an in-built class ability for it. I'm saying because of all that familiarity with books and forms and such they could easily become skilled at spoting and creating forgeries.
So yes, it is another skill, which I'm saying they can take, as a class skill, because of their experience with related matters.

Corncracker
2008-04-18, 12:11 AM
Experience with forms? Outside of scrolls and books, I dont' see where a Wizard becomes associated with any form of paperwork.

I'm just not seeing how being a scholar is going to help you learn to forge documents in the slightest.

Kizara
2008-04-18, 12:19 AM
Experience with forms? Outside of scrolls and books, I dont' see where a Wizard becomes associated with any form of paperwork.

I'm just not seeing how being a scholar is going to help you learn to forge documents in the slightest.

Would you say being a woodsman and/or hunter helps you learn how to jump over obstacles better? Why? Now, think if you could change terms and apply exactly the same thing to your argument.

Corncracker
2008-04-18, 01:23 AM
A woodman and hunter yes, because you would need to jump over obsticles at times. In that case, jumping is required to be a woodsman or hunter.

Forgery is not required for reading. At any point in time.

Edit: Nor does studying various topics.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-18, 02:04 AM
Just out of curiosity, why sans Paladin?


-Gain a +1 Armor bonus to AC (stacks with normal armor) while wearing heavy armor at 6th-level and every 6 levels thereafter (12th,18th).

I have some issues with shoehorning the fighter into the heavy armor guy role. Why are you specifying heavy armor here? I don't see any balance reason not to let it apply to any worn armor. I don't see any fluff justification for it either. Isn't this supposed to represent an increased skill with using armor to deflect/absorb a blow?

Tempest Fennac
2008-04-18, 02:23 AM
I agree with Skjaldbakka about the Fighters. Also, I'm in favour of Bards and Wizards getting Forgery (Bards are "Jacks of all Trades" and Wizards are academic). The Sorcerer fixes are interesting, but would they really be able to take advantage of the extra skills without more skill points?

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-18, 02:25 AM
I honestly don't think any skill should be cross-class for Bards. That whole 'jack of all trades' thing.

Of course, I wouldn't gripe too much about getting rid of cross-class skills entirely.

Tempest Fennac
2008-04-18, 02:40 AM
That is a good point about Bards. I'm in favour of cross-class skills due to how you'd expect certain classes to be better in some areas then others (eg: you'd expect a Fighter to be good at skills which need athleticism while lacking Knowledge skills and vice versa for Wizards).

Kizara
2008-04-18, 03:13 AM
Just out of curiosity, why sans Paladin?



I have some issues with shoehorning the fighter into the heavy armor guy role. Why are you specifying heavy armor here? I don't see any balance reason not to let it apply to any worn armor. I don't see any fluff justification for it either. Isn't this supposed to represent an increased skill with using armor to deflect/absorb a blow?

1) Half of my paladin remake is jacking onewingedangel's work. And all in all it just isn't as impressive, but if you are interested:

Paladin:

-Gain Will as a good save.
-Increase Skill Point progression from 2 to 4.
- ĎDropí spell casting progression by 4 levels, granting 1st-level spells at level 1. A 5th-level spell list will be created.
-Gain Climb, Intimidate, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (the planes), and Spellcraft as class skills.
-Gain 1 free rank in Speak Celestial.
-Remove Disease progression now X/day instead of X/week. It also can be used to Remove Curse , Neutralize Poison, or Lesser Restoration.
-Gain Immunity to fear at level 3.
-At 11th-level Detect Evil becomes a 60ft-radius. At 17th-level it has a continuous duration that does not require concentration.
-Gain Mettle at level 12.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.
-At 20th-level, gain the following:
A Hero Never Falls (Ex)
At 20th level, the paladin's sheer strength of will drives her on when death would claim lesser men. Once per day when a paladin would be reduced to 0 or less hp or otherwise killed (such as by a death effect), she instead is reduced to 1 hp. If the paladin would be killed by having an ability score reduced to zero, that score is instead reduced to 1.

-New Paladin Aura System:
Switchable Auras
All auras except Aura of Good are switchable as a move action. You may have only one aura other than Aura of Good active at a given time. These auras function while the paladin is conscious, but not while the paladin is unconscious or dead. The paladin's auras only affect her allies, and not the paladin herself.


1) Aura of Courage (Ex)
At 3rd level, the paladin may exude an aura of courage that inspires her allies. Each ally within 30 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. Aura of Courage's bonuses scale by level. At level 8, allies gain +6 to saves against fear, and a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls. At level 13, allies gain +8 to saves against fear, and a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls. At level 18, allies gain immunity to fear, and +3 morale bonus to attack rolls. This is a switchable Aura.

2) Aura of Devotion (Ex)
Upon reaching 8th level, the Paladin may exude an Aura of Devotion. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants a +1 morale bonus to AC to all allies within 30 feet. At level 13, this bonus increases to +2. At level 18, this bonus increases to +3. This is a switchable aura.

3) Aura of Resilience (Ex)
Beginning at 13th level, the paladin gains Aura of Resilience. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Fortitude save every round to any ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.

4) Aura of Faith (Ex)
At 18th level, the paladin gains Aura of Faith. While this ability is active, the Paladin grants the ability to reroll one Will save every round to any one ally within a 30ft radius of her. The decision to reroll must be made after the roll is made but before the result is declared. This is a switchable Aura.

Paladin Variant 1: Paladin of Freedom
As above Paladin, with the following changes;

-Increase Skill Point progression from 4 to 6.
-Lower HD to d8.
-Lose Fortitude and gain Reflex as a good save.
-Lose Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency.
-Gain Immunity to Compulsion instead of Immunity to Fear at 3rd-level.
-Gain Aura of Resolve instead of Aura of Courage at 3rd-level (granting a bonus against compulsion effects instead of fear effects).
-Gain Aura of Freedom at 13th-level instead of Aura of Resilience. The aura functions off of Reflex saves, grapple checks to resist being grappled, and escape artist checks instead of Fortitude saves.
-Remove the following spells from the paladin's spell list: discern lies, dispel chaos, magic circle against chaos, protection from chaos.
-Add the following spells to the paladin's spell list: 1stóprotection from law; 3rdómagic circle against law; 4thódispel law, freedom of movement.
-Gain Bluff, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Knowledge (local), Move Silently, Hide and Tumble as class skills.
-Gain Evasion at level 5.
-Change Smite progression from every 5 levels to every 6 levels, thus gaining 2/day at level 6, and 3/day at level 12 and so forth.
-Code of Conduct: A paladin of freedom must be of chaotic good alignment and loses all class abilities if he ever willingly commits an evil act. Additionally, a paladin of freedom's code requires that he respect individual liberty, help those in need (provided they do not use the help for lawful or evil ends), and punish those who threaten or curtail personal liberty.

2) It seemed to suit it's class identity. But considering the ability is fairly 'meh', I'll remove the restriction. If you take 6 levels of fighter and don't want to wear good armor, fine.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-18, 03:18 AM
I wind up with breastplates alot with my fighters. I also play a lot or multiclass fighter/rogues, so medium and light armor are pretty common with my fighters.

edit- also, *yoink*

Kizara
2008-04-18, 03:20 AM
I wind up with breastplates alot with my fighters. I also play a lot or multiclass fighter/rogues, so medium and light armor are pretty common with my fighters.

Sure. I play multiclass fighter/barbarians. I get you.

What do you think of this feat? Your complaint inspired me to make it.
Note: I intend to lower Armor Specialization's BAB prereq to 6+.

Armor Mastery [General]

Prerequisites: BAB 10+, Armor Specialization, proficient with all types of armor.

Benefit: The AC granted by any armor you wear is increased by 2 and the Armor Check Penalty is reduced by 4. Furthermore, you gain Damage Reduction based on how heavy your armor is. Light armor grants DR 2/-, Medium armor grants DR 5/-, Heavy Armor grants DR 10/-. The DR granted by this feat does not stack with that granted by Armor Specialization.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-18, 03:23 AM
I have some reservations, but most of them are put to bed by the BAB +8 prereq. 10/- is good DR, but by level 8, it is not impervious DR.

hmm, mithral causes some issues there. Would you rule Mithral Full Plate counts as medium or heavy for that feat?

Kizara
2008-04-18, 05:25 AM
I have some reservations, but most of them are put to bed by the BAB +8 prereq. 10/- is good DR, but by level 8, it is not impervious DR.

hmm, mithral causes some issues there. Would you rule Mithral Full Plate counts as medium or heavy for that feat?

I decided to up the BAB prereq to 10.

As for mithral, I'm honestly not sure just yet. Right now, I'd say it "counts as medium" means it counts as medium, including when it would be beneficial otherwise. However, logically that makes signifigantly less sense, and I hate that.

JackTR69
2008-04-18, 05:43 AM
I'd probably make the DR 2 4 and 8 respectively, 10 seems a little hight for something you could get a 6th level (assuming you do lower it to bab 6). Otherwise I'd increase the bab need to something like 10 so that stuff can actually do enough damage to hurt you with something other than a critical.
Edit: I took too long to post I guess. Yeah, bab10 for it looks like it'll be good.

Skjaldbakka
2008-04-18, 05:51 AM
As for mithral, I'm honestly not sure just yet. Right now, I'd say it "counts as medium" means it counts as medium, including when it would be beneficial otherwise. However, logically that makes signifigantly less sense, and I hate that.

Yep, those were my thought. I personally dislike mechanics that require exceptions, but mithral isn't any less durable than steel. IIRC, it is stronger. But at the same time, exceptions suck.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-04-18, 07:08 AM
Nice work. Two things missing, though.

A) Monks already get 12 + Level SR or something like that. Maybe you could bump that down a few levels or make it the highest amount, with the SR getting progressively better?

B) Why not simply use this paladin fix (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045&highlight=crusader) for the pally? Far as I know, it's the best thing out there, and since you're stealing a bit from it, might as well do a full steal.

Kizara
2008-04-18, 03:01 PM
Nice work. Two things missing, though.

A) Monks already get 12 + Level SR or something like that. Maybe you could bump that down a few levels or make it the highest amount, with the SR getting progressively better?

B) Why not simply use this paladin fix (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045&highlight=crusader) for the pally? Far as I know, it's the best thing out there, and since you're stealing a bit from it, might as well do a full steal.

The innate resistance is replaced by the monk's ability and increases the monk's ability by 2.

As for that, there's a couple things that his doesn't do that I wanted and a few that it does that I don't like. Mainly though, because its an entirely new system and I am trying to keep things relatively simple and close to the original material.

Fawsto
2008-04-18, 05:15 PM
I liked those, nice work.

The Druid's nerf makes total sense. But I'd consider the shapeshift variant to make things less complicated. However, it is good enough for some power limitation.

I had some similar ideas for a fighter fix. I second them.

One thing that is bugging me however is the spell resistance. It is, in my op, an anti-pvp measure... I believe that true balance stands on lowering the casters' powers.

Now, I found most of your ideas interesting ones, do I have permission to use them to base/complement my own homebrews and house rules?

I know the Paladin from wizards' forum is the best one, but I'd like to know your opinion on mine. If you have some time, check the link in my signature.

- Fawsto

Kizara
2008-04-18, 05:24 PM
I liked those, nice work.

The Druid's nerf makes total sense. But I'd consider the shapeshift variant to make things less complicated. However, it is good enough for some power limitation.

I had some similar ideas for a fighter fix. I second them.

One thing that is bugging me however is the spell resistance. It is, in my op, an anti-pvp measure... I believe that true balance stands on lowering the casters' powers.

Now, I found most of your ideas interesting ones, do I have permission to use them to base/complement my own homebrews and house rules?

I know the Paladin from wizards' forum is the best one, but I'd like to know your opinion on mine. If you have some time, check the link in my signature.

- Fawsto

I'm fine with people using the shapeshift variant. It's well written and very flavorful and nicely balances the class. However, I wanted to make the core druid, with the companion and such usable as well.

The Innate Resistance is partly for flavor reasons and mainly to protect higher-level melee characters from being irritated by low level casters or low caster level partial casters. It's not really useful at all for PvP, since lvl 10 barbarian vs lvl 10 wizard will have the wizzie auto-suceeding on his SR checks.

As for using my work, sure. My feeling is that everyone should be playing this way, so if you use it to do so I have no problem. Just don't pass it off as your own work, that would piss me off. Thanks for asking.

I will do so shortly, and thank you very much for the positive feedback.

EDIT: For those interested, the new fighter looks like this:

Fighter:

-Gain +1 to weapon attack rolls at 3rd level and every three levels thereafter (6th, 9th, etc).
-Gain +1 to weapon damage rolls at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, etc)
-Gain Defensive Combat: You may subtract a number from your attack rolls and add it to your AC as a Dodge bonus. This number may not exceed your fighter level. Does not stack with Combat Expertise. A fighter of 5th level or higher may use this to count as Combat Expertise for the purposes of prerequisites.
-Gain Armor Specialization as a free bonus feat at level 6.
-Gain 1 of Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude at level 7.
-Gain Uncanny Dodge at level 9.
-Gain Improved Uncanny Dodge at level 13.
-Gain a +1 Armor bonus to AC (stacks with normal armor) while wearing armor at 6th-level and every 6 levels thereafter (12th,18th).
-Gain Concentration as a class skill.
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.

Jasdoif
2008-04-25, 10:02 PM
Overall, I like much. However I have some comments/suggestions/questions.


Barbarian:
-Trap Sense is now Danger Sense and applies to the barbarianís AC and Reflex saves in every situation, including combat. (he still loses Dodge bonuses to AC when appropriate)As the barbarian gets trap sense at the same levels its Reflex save increases, this effectively doubles its Reflex save. That being the case, I'd consider just giving the class a good Reflex save, and making this Danger Sense simply a dodge bonus to AC.


Barbarian:
-Gain Knowledge (history) and Spot as class skills.Why Knowledge (history) instead of, say, Knowledge (nature)?


Barbarian:
-Gain Innate Resistance: SR 2 + class level. If you have SR from any other permanent source (racially), improve that progression by 2.I see this one duplicated a lot. Perhaps it'd be better to just give everyone this progression, and make all other SR sources bonuses of some sort? :smalleek: I can't decide.



Bard:
-Pick 3 additional 1-handed melee or ranged martial weapons. You are now proficient with those weapons.Why three? And...does "1-handed" include light weapons?



Cleric:
-Gain 1 free rank in Speak Celestial, Infernal or Abyssal (according to alignment)Yes, I'm curious about the alluded-to language system.



Druid:
-Wild Shape does not grant any healing or restoration.Wild Shape was errata'd to behave like the alternate form ability instead of the polymorph spell; among other things this means you no longer heal from using Wild Shape.


Druid:
-If your animal companion dies, you may not replace him until a period of morning equal to 1 month + 1 month per 2 levels.The extra month per two levels is rather harsh....A couple mistakes at high level and you're out an animal companion for half a year? The year and a day for a familiar is similarly harsh, true, but at least the familiar gets the benefit of its master's saves and is usually small enough that it can hide.



Fighter:
-Gain 1 of Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes or Great Fortitude at level 7.I'd just make this a bonus to the save of your choice; so you can still take the feat if you want a particular save to be "really" high.



Sorcerer:
-Gain Metamagic Familiarity at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level: At each level, choose a metamagic feat that you know, that feat costs 1 spell level less to apply, and doesnít require extra time to cast (as normal for spontaneous casters). You may not select the same feat multiple times.I don't like this. It penalizes someone hasn't picked sufficient metamagic feats. I would suggest something similar to the Wu Jen's spell secrets, where you pick a metamagic feat from a short list and get it for free (no slot increase) on a particular spell, and don't need to know the feat in question.



Wizard:
-Gain Appraise and Forgery as class skills.This isn't really specific to your changes...but it bugs me that you have to be good at making forgeries to be good at detecting forgeries. Maybe wizards (or everyone) could use Decipher Script to detect forgeries, and not need to get another class skill?



I notice the Ranger isn't represented. Why is that? Do you think it's fine as is, or are you getting rid of it entirely?

Kizara
2008-04-25, 10:40 PM
Wow, didn't expect this to get more attention. Not that I'm not happy to field more responses.


Overall, I like much. However I have some comments/suggestions/questions.

Thanks and no problem.


As the barbarian gets trap sense at the same levels its Reflex save increases, this effectively doubles its Reflex save. That being the case, I'd consider just giving the class a good Reflex save, and making this Danger Sense simply a dodge bonus to AC.

Why Knowledge (history) instead of, say, Knowledge (nature)?

I didn't realize that regarding the Ref. save, I'll consider it. As for the knowledge thing, see where I addressed this above. I would just be repeating myself.


I see this one duplicated a lot. Perhaps it'd be better to just give everyone this progression, and make all other SR sources bonuses of some sort? :smalleek: I can't decide.

The idea is to give it to the more melee-oriented classes. Basically if it has full BAB and at least 8 HD I give it the resistance. Also, I have feats that allow one to enhance this ability. I also discuss this earlier in the thread.


Why three? And...does "1-handed" include light weapons?
Three because I wanted to improve their selection and the adaptability of the class but not give them all martial proficiency. And yes, it includes light weapons.



Yes, I'm curious about the alluded-to language system.

I'll dig up a link to it and edit it in. But my thread concerning 3.5 Skill Changes also includes most of it.

EDIT: Here we go.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74094



Wild Shape was errata'd to behave like the alternate form ability instead of the polymorph spell; among other things this means you no longer heal from using Wild Shape.

Probably, but my group doesn't check and index all the errata, so having this here is still relivant.


The extra month per two levels is rather harsh....A couple mistakes at high level and you're out an animal companion for half a year? The year and a day for a familiar is similarly harsh, true, but at least the familiar gets the benefit of its master's saves and is usually small enough that it can hide.

Meh, I'll probably just change both to be more reasonable. Nonetheless I hate it being used as a disposable reasource.


I'd just make this a bonus to the save of your choice; so you can still take the feat if you want a particular save to be "really" high.

Well, gaining bonus feats is the style of the class. Also, this allows you to qualify for some PrCs or feats. Finally, I buffed those feats slightly so its a bit better to get the feat instead of just a bonus.



I don't like this. It penalizes someone hasn't picked sufficient metamagic feats. I would suggest something similar to the Wu Jen's spell secrets, where you pick a metamagic feat from a short list and get it for free (no slot increase) on a particular spell, and don't need to know the feat in question.

I don't want it to just be a clone of the wizard's ability. Yes, it does require you to take metamagic feats, but honestly I feel this is a pretty powerful and very flavorful ability. I might consider your suggestion as an ACF or variant of my class though.


This isn't really specific to your changes...but it bugs me that you have to be good at making forgeries to be good at detecting forgeries. Maybe wizards (or everyone) could use Decipher Script to detect forgeries, and not need to get another class skill?

I hear you. I just lumped the skills together, see my skill changes thread.




I notice the Ranger isn't represented. Why is that? Do you think it's fine as is, or are you getting rid of it entirely?

What the hell? How did that manage to happen? I'll edit in the ranger. Thanks for the catch.

Jasdoif
2008-04-26, 12:21 AM
As for the knowledge thing, see where I addressed this above. I would just be repeating myself.I see why you chose Knowledge (history), but not why you didn't choose Knowledge (nature). Just curious, I'd think nature knowledge would be more easily acquired.


The idea is to give it to the more melee-oriented classes. Basically if it has full BAB and at least 8 HD I give it the resistance. Also, I have feats that allow one to enhance this ability. I also discuss this earlier in the thread.I guess I failed to be clear...I was wondering if you'd considered the possibility of simply making it an ability of all creatures, and making everything else SR related a bonus to it. I imagine anyone could do well to resist the spells of lower-level casters. (It'd make for a nice universal SR system too; everything has SR equal to its HD, the full-BAB classes get a +2 bonus, everyone qualifies for whatever boosting feat, etc. etc.)


Meh, I'll probably just change both to be more reasonable. Nonetheless I hate it being used as a disposable reasource.Oh, I understand that; but on the other hand accidents happen even if you take care. And given that you're retaining the AC/Str/Dex/HD bonuses (even though slowed), you're obviously still expecting the animal companion to participate in combat, which puts it at risk. I don't imagine you want druids to send their animal companions off to hide whenever combat comes.


I hear you. I just lumped the skills together, see my skill changes thread.Where is it? Perhaps I'm blind, but I looked through the last seven pages of the homebrew forum and didn't see such a thread.


What the hell? How did that manage to happen? I'll edit in the ranger. Thanks for the catch.Ahh. Well, only comment I have is: Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sense Motive are usually more city-oriented skills; not really well suited for a wilderness type (and indeed, the urban ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rangerVariantUrbanRang er) gets those in lieu of some wilderness-oriented skills). Any particular reason those have been added?

Kizara
2008-04-26, 12:50 AM
I see why you chose Knowledge (history), but not why you didn't choose Knowledge (nature). Just curious, I'd think nature knowledge would be more easily acquired.

Well, the things I would expect the barbarian to know about nature is practical knowledge, which is covered under the Survival skill.



I guess I failed to be clear...I was wondering if you'd considered the possibility of simply making it an ability of all creatures, and making everything else SR related a bonus to it. I imagine anyone could do well to resist the spells of lower-level casters. (It'd make for a nice universal SR system too; everything has SR equal to its HD, the full-BAB classes get a +2 bonus, everyone qualifies for whatever boosting feat, etc. etc.)

That concept was the basis for the idea, but I wanted to incorporate something that is compatible with the current SR system/spells/creatures/class abilities while boosting them all slightly. I currently have no intention of overhauling all aspects of SR in the game at this time.


Oh, I understand that; but on the other hand accidents happen even if you take care. And given that you're retaining the AC/Str/Dex/HD bonuses (even though slowed), you're obviously still expecting the animal companion to participate in combat, which puts it at risk. I don't imagine you want druids to send their animal companions off to hide whenever combat comes.

Point taken.


Where is it? Perhaps I'm blind, but I looked through the last seven pages of the homebrew forum and didn't see such a thread.

Did you try the first page? :)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78270


Ahh. Well, only comment I have is: Gather Information, Knowledge (local), and Sense Motive are usually more city-oriented skills; not really well suited for a wilderness type (and indeed, the urban ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rangerVariantUrbanRang er) gets those in lieu of some wilderness-oriented skills). Any particular reason those have been added?

I'm pretty much expanding the ranger flavor to include that variant. Also, I see Knowledge (local) to be anyone very knowledgable about the local area: something even woodsy ranger would be very good for. Finally, Sense Motive belongs on the skill list of any wisdom-oriented character, and is also pretty related to hunting and judging the claims of those you meet in your solitary emo travels through the woods cause nobody accepts you. :)

Jasdoif
2008-04-26, 01:33 AM
That concept was the basis for the idea, but I wanted to incorporate something that is compatible with the current SR system/spells/creatures/class abilities while boosting them all slightly. I currently have no intention of overhauling all aspects of SR in the game at this time.Well, a quick conversion for existing creatures with natural SR would be a bonus equal to its current SR minus its HD. (Very few things that I know of have SR that scales with level; honestly drow are the only example I can think of). For spells/magic items, it'd be the granted SR minus 10.

Well, maybe that last is a little much for things that scale with caster level (specifically spell resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellResistance.htm)), but on the other hand it makes those Spell Resistance armor properties much better. (I mean seriously: +2 bonus equivalent for a flat SR 13? That puts the total armor price just over 9,000gp, which is slightly more then WBL for level 5....by the time you can realistically spend that much money on a single piece of gear, it's already neigh-useless and makes other improvements more expensive....)


Regardless, you said in that other thread that you have 12 pages of notes on spell changes. Looking at overhauling SR now might be a good idea while you're in the middle of spell changes; it'd be a pain if you decide it's necessary later and have to go over all that.


Did you try the first page? :)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78270Yes, in fact I did. "Blind" it is, then. <<;

Kurald Galain
2008-04-29, 04:45 PM
I agree with the sentiment that the sorcerer's metamagic familiarity and metamagic secrets are overpowered. Metamagic cost reduction is overpowered by default in (almost?) every single incarnation, and should certainly not occur in a base class at such a low level.

Kizara
2008-04-29, 05:24 PM
I agree with the sentiment that the sorcerer's metamagic familiarity and metamagic secrets are overpowered. Metamagic cost reduction is overpowered by default in (almost?) every single incarnation, and should certainly not occur in a base class at such a low level.

Well, the secrets variant is certinally less powerful. I mean, the best option (empower spell) allows you to pick one spell and have it be Empowered for free a few times a day. At level 10, lets say you pick Enervation and Empower spell. So, that grants you 1d4x1.5. If you roll a 3 or 4, you get one more. Really, this is overpowered? Let's say you take Fireball, 10d6 x1.5 (3.5x10=35 x1.5= 52) so that's 18ish bonus damage. I mean, that's pretty good, but I don't think 18 reflex half elemental damage is obscene at level 10.

Now, as for the main option, it's a bit more powerful. One thing to keep in mind is that it doesn't scale. Unlike DMM, you can't get a 4 or 8 level reduction, only 1. So, that means you can Quicken a spell for only a 3 level boost, or you can take Still and do it with no level increase. You really feel this is overpowered? I mean, its certinally GOOD, but I think getting free metamagic feats every 5 levels is pretty good too, and makes it easier to qualify for PrCs. (Note, although I don't say this here, I ban things like Incantrix, DMM, and Arcane Thesis, so stacking issues with that won't be an issue).

paladin_carvin
2008-11-25, 03:10 PM
You have a ton of good changes and I was wondering what you thought of a Paladin change I thought of.

To me, the hardest thing about Paladins as a DM is the fact that they take out the 'is it evil' factor due to detect evil. You have to start making characters have hide alignment or rings or something else.... and magical beasts then have a big disadvantage. BUT! The whole point about detect evil is that it is needed for smite evil. But I got an idea from the berserk rage (I think that is the name) from PHB II where rage like benefits are given due to number of hp, not randomly 'turned on'. With that in mind, I made this new smite evil.

Smite Evil: When a paladin strikes an evil target with a melee attack it brings out the righteous fury of her attack. When such a strike hits, the paladin immediately is aware. The attack adds the paladin's charisma bonus to the damage roll of that attack. As long as she can maintain some perception of the target enough to know it is the same target she will continue to smite evil on each attack with the added bonus of one to attack and damage rolls for each previous successful Smite Evil up to equal to her Paladin levels. For example, a 4th level paladin with a 14 charisma (+2 bonus) successfully attacks a young red dragon with her long sword doing 1d8+2 damage in addition to any damage from other bonuses such as strength bonus or magical enhancements. Her next attack roll has a +1 bonus. If this succeeds her damage roll will be 1d8+2+1. She will increase this bonus for each hit till she reaches +4 to attack tolls and +2 +4 for damage rolls.
At level 5 Smite Evil attacks become good aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and at level 10 it becomes lawfully aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At level 15 all melee attacks of a paladin become good and lawfully aligned as long as the attack will then cause her to smite her foe.
Greater Strike Evil: At level 20 a Paladin's smite evil become greatly more powerful. With Greater Strike Evil, a paladin will know she is attacking an evil target while she attacks. She will be made aware of this when the attack roll is made, gaining her charisma bonus to the attack roll, as well as any other attack roll made on such a target. In addition to Smite Evil's normal bonuses, a Paladin with Greater Smite Evil adds two times her charisma bonus to damage and there is no longer any limit to how high the bonus from Smite Evil can go.

Roderick_BR
2008-11-26, 06:51 AM
As the others said, some quick notes and ideas (and nitpicks)

Barbarian: Danger sense adding more bonuses to AC in combat? This sounds a lot like the monk's bonuses to AC(even though he doesn't lose then when flatfooted). Adding it to all Reflex bonuses is cool, though.

Monk: The 1:1 Power Attack ratio already exists. The Power Attack feat entry especifies that unarmed strikes are always 1:1, even if US are usually treated as light weapons. Just to let you know. Giving him the ability to flurry as a default action gives him a much needed boost.

Sorcerer: I think the game already allows you to replace spells every 4 levels. Allowing it every level looks fine.

Fighter: You want to give him bonus feats to fill in the dead levels. As someone pointed out, it looks weird. Here's the mini-fix I did a long time ago, you may like it as it's simple, and makes it look like class features:

1st level: Weapon Improvisation: You can use improvised weapons, and unproficient exotic weapons at -2, instead of -4. You are still not proficient with these weapons, unless you gain the related feats, as normal.
3rd level: Weapon Focus: You gain a generic +1 bonus to attack rolls when attacking with any weapon.
5th level: Weapon Specialization: You gain a generic +2 bonus to damage rolls when attacking with any weapon.
7th level: Armor Focus: The armor check penalty of any armor is reduced a given number (minimum 0) when you wear it. The reduction is 1 point for light armor, 2 for medium armor, and 3 for heavy armor.
9th level: Armor Specialization: The base armor bonus from any armor is increased a given number when you wear it. The bonus is +3 for llight armor, +2 for medium armor, and +1 for heavy armor.
11th level: Double strike: You can make two attacks as a default action. The first attack is made at your highest BaB bonus, the second at your highest BaB bonus with a -5 penalty.
13th level: Weapon Mastery: Choose a type of weapon: Melee slashing, melee puncturing, melee bludgeoning, ranged. You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and +2 bonus to damage rolls with weapons of that type. It stacks with the bonuses from Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization
15th level: Double Step: You can make 10ft adjust moves, instead of 5ft adjust moves.
17th level: Armor Mastery: The size category of any armor you wear is reduced in one size category (minimum light). While wearing light armor you gain, instead, an additional +1 bonus to it's base AC. Doesn't stacks with Mithral armor.
19th level: Weapon Supremacy: Choose one weapon of the same type you choose for Weapon Mastery. You gain all the benefits of the feat Weapon Supremacy for that weapon (Player's Handbook 2). For ranged weapons, instead of being able to use it in grapple, you can attack without provoking attacks of opportunity.
20th: Armor supremacy: Your armor's armor bonus is changed into a deflection bonus, and also added to your Reflex saves.

Notes: All bonus from Weapon focus, specialization, mastery, and supremacy only applies to weapons you are proficient with.
All bonus from Armor focus, specialization, and supremacy applies only to armors you are proficient with, and doesn't apply to shield.
You can remove these feats (weapon focus, specialization, mastery, supremacy) from the feats list, as only the fighter uses them anyway.
This change gives a figther the whole Weapon Focus feat chain (that is considered weak), leaving him free to use his feats to something else, and encouraging a player to go all 20 levels to get some interesting bonuses, and giving him something every level. It may look overpowered at first, but in the end, it just gives the fighter a little boost, and gives him unique things.

Fax Celestis
2008-11-26, 11:39 AM
-You may Power Attack at a 1:1 ratio with your unarmed strike as part of an attack or full-action action.

Not a house rule.


Power Attack [General]
Prerequisite
Str 13.

Benefit
On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Special
If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You canít add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

brujon
2008-11-26, 12:36 PM
Although i do think that the SR thing for melee-oriented classes is necessary for balance between casters and meleers, i must say, that fluff-wise, it doesn't really make much sense.

Magic isn't innate to all creatures and classes, some have more contact with it, or were born in contact with it, some trained to resist their effects. A lvl 1 commoner is a possibility of a fighter, or a cleric, or a wizard. With dedication, they can overcome their common lives and become adventurer's themselves. At which point in that transition do they gain that SR? Unless you are saying that no creature is 100% vulnerable to magic, that doesn't really make much sense.

I reason and envision SR as being somewhat of a supernatural ability (Not in the strict sense of the rules), something you are just born with or you otherwise gain by supernatural means. That's why some races (like the Drow) have SR as a racial ability. I don't see a reason beyond balancing the rules for a fighter to have SR, or a barbarian for that matter. Sure, a monk can and should have SR, because they spend time perfecting their minds and their bodies to resist all kinds of hazards (that's why they have all those special abilities on their class progression list), and even the Monks only gain their SR at a later level, at a later stage of their training for perfection.

So, while i don't criticize your fix(on the contrary, i really think it brings balance), i think it overshadows a bit of the magic as being a "mysterious" and "wondrous" thing, and just some other form of attack. Think of it as kind of DR, you only gain DR if you wear special armor, or if you have thick skin. So you should only gain SR if you somehow are more resilient to magic than normal.

Although i think it's overly more complicated, fixing the spells and the casters is more fluff kind than the SR fix, but it's just my thoughts. If someone on my gaming table was using a wizard in a munchkin way, i would definitely house-rule this to minimize the hurting.

All in all, i think the other class fixes are just perfect. (Except the ranger, but that's because i simply can't think of a ranger using magic, so i prefer to use a non-magic variant that gains the animal companion at level 1)

Just my thoughts.

please don't hurt me

Anondurl
2008-11-26, 01:16 PM
I have always thought that the classes were reasonably balanced until I realized that while a fighter is more essential to the party at low levels the wizard is essential to the party at high levels. Think about it, the cleric rouge, and/or bard could easily fill the fighters place at low levels, but at high levels a tarosque is only able to be beaten by a wish spell. The party at high levels could do with out a fighter. Granted at low levels the wizard could be done away with, although sleep and magic missile have saved my sorry but more than once.
That being said, I think you are all doing a fabulous job with the revisions and I will begin using them in the next game I DM.

Draz74
2008-11-26, 01:42 PM
Um. By RAW, Spell Resistance works on most friendly spells (buffs) as well as it works on hostile spells, unless you use a standard action to lower it.

If all the casters in the party are full casters, with the same level as their comrades, your Innate Resistance won't hurt anything. But if:


there is a Ranger or (more likely) Paladin in the party who likes to buff
there is a gish (e.g. Spellsword) in the party who likes to buff
there is a weird underpowered multiclass character in the party who dips just a couple levels in Sorcerer to buff
there are casters in the party who like to use in-combat buffs out of wands or scrolls
there is a cohort or NPC (hired cleric?) that follow the party around and buff them


... then I would actually see Innate Resistance as a bad ability to have. More problems than benefits.

Stycotl
2008-11-26, 04:04 PM
Um. By RAW, Spell Resistance works on most friendly spells (buffs) as well as it works on hostile spells, unless you use a standard action to lower it.

If all the casters in the party are full casters, with the same level as their comrades, your Innate Resistance won't hurt anything. But if:


there is a Ranger or (more likely) Paladin in the party who likes to buff
there is a gish (e.g. Spellsword) in the party who likes to buff
there is a weird underpowered multiclass character in the party who dips just a couple levels in Sorcerer to buff
there are casters in the party who like to use in-combat buffs out of wands or scrolls
there is a cohort or NPC (hired cleric?) that follow the party around and buff them


... then I would actually see Innate Resistance as a bad ability to have. More problems than benefits.

which is one of the reasons that lowering spell resistance for certain effects is a free act in my games--and i've never had a problem with it yet.

overall, cool stuff.

i love that the barb has know (history). it is truly fitting, and anyone that has ever studied a tribal society would know that without having to think about it.

the sorcerer is the coolest fix i am seeing, and i am very interested in trying it out. i don't think that the metamagic issues will be a problem at all. but i do agree with jasdoif, who said:


I don't like this. It penalizes someone hasn't picked sufficient metamagic feats. I would suggest something similar to the Wu Jen's spell secrets, where you pick a metamagic feat from a short list and get it for free (no slot increase) on a particular spell, and don't need to know the feat in question.

some casters really don't utilize metamagic much. for them, i'd suggest allowing them to either take a sorcerous heritage feat, an item creation feat, or (for those that want at least one or two), a normal metamagic feat in place of the metamagic familiarity.

aaron out.

Primal Fury
2008-11-30, 10:22 PM
My goodness. These are some wonderful changes you've made, especially to the sorcerer. It's my favorite class, but it didn't really feel like anything other than a less powerful wizard. This, coupled with the varient in the Complete Book of Eldritch Might, would make the class that is awsome in it's own right.

I do have one question though. Would it be too much of a stretch to allow the sorcerer to use his cantrips at will? And even 1st and 2nd level spells at higher levels?

thevorpalbunny
2008-12-01, 12:35 AM
Overall pretty awesome. One issue: SR 2+level is basically useless because it isn't actually scaling, just treading water to stay as good as it was.
Caster level check vs. SR:
1d20+caster level vs 2+level
It is a flat 5% chance, or if the enemy has any bonuses to caster level then no chance at all. If you want it to be meaningful, increase it to at least 5+level, increasing at higher levels to 10+level.

ericgrau
2008-12-01, 01:11 AM
Seems inbalanced.


























No, seriously. Have you playtested this? I don't see why people think their untested guesses will be lucky enough to be better than what's already there. At least that's been tested on a bunch of games; whether you agree with it or not. Take the fighter, as the simplest example. The most common "fix" is to boost his combat numbers even more. He's already on top there. That's not why people complain about him. If anything they think he's underpowered because of limited options. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but no matter which side you're on it makes absolutely no sense to fix him by boosting his combat stats. So it's conceivable that someone somewhere might find a good fix by totally changing what each class can do, but to just change some numbers around / etc. while doing 1000 times less testing than the original developers and then expect it to be better is silly. I have run the numers on several things in 3.5, to a level of extreme detail that might make you question my sanity. That's not the issue. Instead I found the developers must have been even crazier than me when it came to balancing the numbers. They're spot on.

Primal Fury
2008-12-01, 01:45 AM
Personally ericgrau, I don't think homebrewing is about balance, it's about fun. You sometimes have to change things to suit the game and even your own tastes. A class can be good in concept, but in practice it could suck big time. Take my example for instance: The sorcerer is a very nice in theory, but in practice it's really just a weaker version of the wizard.

And besides, balance is completely subjective to a situation. There are those who say druids are HORRIBLY balanced, which they sort of are. Some say that fighters are perfectly balanced (don't know, never played one).

And what you said about the developers being spot on? Remember Complete Psionic? Yeah. Sucked.

Athaniar
2008-12-01, 02:58 AM
That language skill change is just what I have been looking for, I was greatly annoyed at the fact that you apparently could spend one skill point to become automatically fluent in a language.

thevorpalbunny
2008-12-01, 06:03 PM
No, seriously. Have you playtested this? I don't see why people think their untested guesses will be lucky enough to be better than what's already there. At least that's been tested on a bunch of games; whether you agree with it or not. Take the fighter, as the simplest example. The most common "fix" is to boost his combat numbers even more. He's already on top there. That's not why people complain about him. If anything they think he's underpowered because of limited options. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but no matter which side you're on it makes absolutely no sense to fix him by boosting his combat stats. So it's conceivable that someone somewhere might find a good fix by totally changing what each class can do, but to just change some numbers around / etc. while doing 1000 times less testing than the original developers and then expect it to be better is silly. I have run the numbers on several things in 3.5, to a level of extreme detail that might make you question my sanity. That's not the issue. Instead I found the developers must have been even crazier than me when it came to balancing the numbers. They're spot on.

The fighter is on top in combat stats at low levels, sure. By mid levels, though, he loses out to the cleric or druid with buffs, and by high levels he loses out to the wizard with buffs as well. Also, he's pretty much irrelevant by high levels anyway. There are ways to fix it by changing how you run games (if there are a lot of moderate encounters, as the DMG suggests, rather than the current norm of four very taxing ones per day, the fighter is more relevant in slogging through the mooks) but there is still a serious problem when the fighter is not always the best fighter on the field.