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Shifty
2008-04-20, 09:17 PM
So, working on a campaign world, whose influences are largely Hellenic. The region in question is geographically similar to the Mediterranean, stretching west to around France and southeast to Persia, without much contact to North Africa. All fairly standard, but magic is almost non-existent, and metallurgy is limited to bronze-working, with only the odd forged steel implement available from the dwarves.

A race of humans called Parthaeans get the area centred around the Adriatic. They're a fairly competent, well rounded bunch, ruled over by the Pandialektikon, who are a sort of Roman Senate, and the military, consisting of Hoplites and militia. Their sphere of influence gets a bit ragged at the edges, but they claim most of Eastern Europe. Parthaeans are avaricious and scheming, but not inclined towards profitless violence. They have very little magical talent, preferring instead the mysterious powers of bureaucracy and economics, but there is a large and influential priestly order, some of whom have actual divine powers. Parthaeans get along fairly well with Dwarves and Uruk-Saal.

Dwarves hang out in the Caucasus, but claim most of Asia Minor. They're basically industrialists in Soviet clothing, up to and including Stalin 'staches and the 'People's Industrialist Party' running people's lives, but they know steelworking, which makes everyone nervous. Their only apparent aim is to expand their industry and exploit their monopoly on the working of iron and steel. They don't even try to subjugate the barbarians outside the high mountains, except to occasionally press-gang them into the mines. Dwarves are not terribly social, but every city has a dwarven contingent and there is even an embassy in the Parthaean capital of Kypreos. Their presence and industrial base make them indispensable to the local power structure. While they are not, by their own admission, indigenous to the area, they still won't let any non-dwarves into their walled mountain fortresses, instead conducting their business in secondary cities outside the gates.

Another strain of human called the Al-Malikim own the Arabian Peninsula. They're the troublemakers of the bunch, and only the hostility of the terrain (and indigenous tribes) between them and the Parthaeans prevents all out war. As it is there's a great deal of minor skirmishes over land-based trade routes, and oceanic piracy is commonplace. The Al-Malikim are a nation of nomadic raiders slowly changing into cutthroat merchants, and still are having problems getting used to the metaphorical use of the term "cutthroat." They live in the desert and get around using sand-ships to cross the dunes from one oasis to the next. They have an above-average rate of arcane magic use, which is to say that hedge wizards hide their abilities, and practicing wizards hide themselves. They trade with the dwarves, and have a grudging mutual respect for the Uruk-Saal.

The Uruk lay claim to where the western coast would be, if everything west of France fell into the ocean. This area is geographically similar to the more mountainous areas of Western Canada. They call themselves the Uruk-Saal, or salt men. Tall and strong, with grey skin and eyes, they are the preeminent sailors of the world, each Uruk worth five humans in a gale. They build ships from the enormous trees that grow along the coast, and have an almost spiritual connection to them. They also are able to tap into the power of these spirits, and have a high occurrence of divine magic use compared to the other races. Important ships will have an uruk-vai or wave-man, who tends to the ship and the crew. They are very close to the Parthaeans, even serving in their navy on occasion, and have a strong respect for the Al-Malikim, who live without water and sail without the sea.

The north is owned by elves, halflings, gnomes and worse. They are collectively referred to as the Fey. Most of the inhabitants of the southern lands will never see one of these races, as they rarely leave the cold, dark forests. Occasionally one will be captured by Parthaean hunters or Uruk spirit-questers and displayed in captivity for a few days or weeks, before either dying or escaping. Most stay in the deep wooded wilderness, where the sun does not reach the ground and winter never ends.

Elves are the most 'civilised' of the set. They file their teeth to points, and some have the antlers of a stag or feathers growing amid their hair, but they speak their own tongue and mimic the sounds of others, as well as making and using weapons and tools of exquisite, if gruesome, beauty. They take delight in kidnapping humanoids but rarely seek to actually harm them, instead merely keeping them as pets or unwilling guests, until their fickle and capricious natures lead them to either forget about their guests, or simply turn them out on their ear into the cold, dark forest.

Halflings are half-feral and savage, attacking their victims in a wave of sharp claws, biting teeth and stone bludgeons. They can speak, but rarely do so other than to let out torrents of foul invective and curses. They have little talent for invention or creation except in the making of alcohol and rude weapons, and are mainly concerned with eating, drinking and fighting.

Gnomes are robbers and kidnappers, and cunning miners. There are tales of them undermining whole villages that come too close to their territory, and of terrible nightmares and waking visions for those who stayed. They kidnap children and leave grotesque parodies of humanoids in their place, and make off with flocks of sheep in the night. Such is their skill at infiltration and theft that delvings are often uncovered hundreds of leagues from their traditional lands, where there is little awareness of their existence.

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So, there's the breakdown. As you can probably tell, most of the Fey are intended to be vaguely Welsh/Cornish in nature, the Uruk are something of a blend of Native American and Dane, and the humans and dwarves are pretty obvious. What I want to know is how you think they can be improved? The dwarves, especially, are aching for some refinement, and I could find room for some new types if there's anything really cool that needs doing.

Things to keep in mind, if you want to make some suggestions, are the magical and technical levels of the world at large. Iron and steel working is dwarven only, and magic should be mostly kept out of the hands of the layperson. There aren't more than a dozen actual wizards in the entirety of Parthaea, and maybe twice that many spellcasting clergy. Other races' magical inclinations should be extracted from those values.

mabriss lethe
2008-04-20, 10:24 PM
Something I've been toying with...

Ogres and Ogre Mages: Change them to give a more Akkadian/mesopotamian feel. it often means giving ogres more culture, but i don't consider that a bad thing. maybe a race in decline, the remnants of a fading pre-human(ish) empire. Maybe they have a more byzantine decadence than any sort of decline. I'd put them somewhere just beyond the range claimed by the Al-Malikim

Icewalker
2008-04-20, 10:27 PM
All mine are pretty standard, except for the Arabian-style Desert Dwarves and the Japanese Elves.

Collin152
2008-04-20, 10:32 PM
All mine are pretty standard, except for the Arabian-style Desert Dwarves and the Japanese Elves.

Japanese Elves?

Hmm...
Daisuke!

CockroachTeaParty
2008-04-20, 10:33 PM
Something I've been toying with...

Ogres and Ogre Mages: Change them to give a more Akkadian/mesopotamian feel. it often means giving ogres more culture, but i don't consider that a bad thing. maybe a race in decline, the remnants of a fading pre-human(ish) empire. Maybe they have a more byzantine decadence than any sort of decline. I'd put them somewhere just beyond the range claimed by the Al-Malikim


Ooh, have you ever seen the ogres from the Warhammer tabletop game? They are more like mongolians... really fat, baby-eating Attila the Huns, essentially. I always thought it was a good fit for ogres, and ogre mages would work just fine. A no-nonsense, disturbingly organized barbarian army from the distant northeastern mountain ranges. And give them a bunch of kobold slaves to do their bidding and occasionally serve as snacks.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-20, 10:39 PM
I've been toying with a tribe of Mongolian Halflings, mostly Paladins of Slaughter, Rangers, and Druids, all in the Halfling Outrider PrC.

Shifty
2008-04-21, 12:38 AM
Something I've been toying with...

Ogres and Ogre Mages: Change them to give a more Akkadian/mesopotamian feel. <snip> I'd put them somewhere just beyond the range claimed by the Al-Malikim

You know, that's a great idea. A defunct empire of Ogres would be a perfect barrier to keep the Al-Malikim and the Parthaeans away from each other. If they were scattered in the recent past, say the last 50 or so years -- maybe by the dwarves? -- then there might still be leftover strongholds in the wilderness. I'm toying now with the idea of having the region in question be a saltwater marsh butting up on harsh mountains, and have the ogres be slightly crocodilian. A bunch of three metre tall intelligent ogre-gators would definitely keep the desert rats and the farmers from killing each other. Plus, it'd keep a market for caravan guards 24/7 to get steel goods from the dwarves.

Now that I think of it, maybe I'll make the dwarves a steel-worship cult. Smelting and forging become ritual as much as procedure, and they must show the heretics the superiority of steel. But then you've just got armed camps staring at each other across trackless wilderness, and there's no fun in that...

Kol Korran
2008-04-21, 08:19 AM
not realy an original idea, just building on top of the yours and the others (oh, before i forget- it sounds liek a realy nice setting!):

1) why no joing the stories of the dwarves and the ogres? the ogres used to be the dominant civilization where the dwarves are now. they have mostly kept to themselves, ruled by the aritocratic class of ogre mages (make various ogre mages to signify different tribes/ states/ beliefs and such the color of the ogre can be eithertattos, scaring, or magical marking of a bloodline. either way- it's a symbol of status and allegiance). the ogres relied on their strength and magic, believing they are chosen by whatever god/s they worship, not advancing their technology much.

than came the dwarves, probably from father east, bringing their belief of metal ("in our bones, and in our hearts" sort of thing). at first they may have tried to convince the giant kin to convert, but as they didn't, the dwarves opted to attack (the magical powers of the ogre mages especially convinced the dwarves of their "heresy"). this struggles went quietly, without the humans knowing much about it. (the struggle acan also signify the dwarves racial bonus against giants, and their resistence to magic). the dwarves mostly won, the remaining ogres migrating to the swampy area you mentioned, knowing that there the dwarves metal will corrode more easely, and where their own size and strength might give them advantage.

the dwarves however were severly hit as well. many of their numbes died, they now hide behind their fortresses, making a great show of their powers and "Everything is fine", while they try to regain their strength and numbers. their armies severly diminished, they now try and spread their influence mostly by trade and politics, reserving their militery only for cruical embarkments (so no fortified camps on the way side).

their quest to spread "the truth of steel" still goes on, but their is time, and dwarfs are known for their patience. you could make it a bit mroe interesting ifthe dwarves have kept their agenda secret... to ther world they are but merchants. few of the other nations suspect the dwarves overarching goal, but they are usually laughed at. oddly enough- the only ones who might knwo fo the the real danger are the ogres..

2) as to the fey in the north- why not have hags there as well? as sort of power brokers/ oracles for those who venture so far wide. they may have an allegiance with any of the races, or they might not. the Uruk especially, on their spirit quests, might need to appease one of these "evils/ spirit guides" and so on... give them the role of hags in ancient mythologies and tales- cryptic malevolent decievers, but also mystic oracles, negotiators of unworldly matters.

3) just an idea with the halflings, though it might change them too much: why not give them the ability to change shape, to some small forest animal? it will make them more unique, and will cause a bit more paranoya when suddenly rabits, mongooses, owls, hawks and more begin to follow the party, all with a strange, hungry, feral gleam in their eye.

4) as for the elves, if i got it right you want to make them the "toying hunters" sort of elves... if so, i'd suffest posion, nets, and other similar stuff. also- many fey in stories have areas of forest with special effects- if you go to sleep you never wake, all the fruits are poisenous, distances are farther (or shorter), then they seem and so on. i suggest you plan for "elf zones" with these affects, mostly around their habitats, or other places of importance. these may represent places ancient elves enchanted, or more likely, places the current elves were forced to guard by some more sinister force.
the hags may have small charms and trinkets that help with these places.

5) trees of the Uruk: you can connect the Uruk to the dark forests (they seem to be allready connected by the metnion of the spirit quest): the Uruks have perhap in the past lived there, maybe even been part of the races under the curse of the place, but somehow (insert Uruk mythology here), they got away, carrying soem of the trees that protect from the sinister forces there. they planted these on their new soil, their new land (perhaps their escape was by the sea? the ships made out of sentient trees or treants that ascarificed themselves?). now they protenct the trees, and make new ships, both as an honor and a way to rmember (and of course, for livelihood). some of the trees of the uruk may have special qualities, some even may be treants, or have good fey (these should be by far the exception!). the uruks may be the only ones who may take a nature cleric/ druid type of class (or perhaps a special variant). the uruks spirit quests into the woods serves to make them remember and know the truth of their history, as well as to prove they are strong enough to serve the nation (a sort of right of passage. perhaps not for all, but surely for people holding high position).

6) the times you draw ideas from, were heavily influenced by slave labor. that could add another dimension to your campaign, althoug not necesserily a cheerfull one. i suggest to go with but one or two races (or nations) as a source for slaves, perhaps in a string of islands in the seas, or a minituarized "africa".

all i got, for now,
Kol.

Pronounceable
2008-04-21, 12:54 PM
Steel worshipping dwarves is good. I always like a good Brotherhood of Steel theme. Give them crossbows to ensure technological superiority over ignorant barbarians and you're all set.

The ancient ogre empire was stone age Egyptian flavored perhaps? They worked exclusively on stone, considered metal use cheating, engineered pyramids and hanging gardens and whatnot, which was an affront to steel lovers. Dwarves crusaded upon peaceful ogres and drove them away from good quarries into swamps where they slowly degenerated into semi savages. What little good stone artifacts they preserved are holy relics of a glorious past.

The south needs something. Zulus or what have you. Maybe one of the fey types lives in southern jungles?


I like it overall. Especially halflings. Usually I consider changing racial stereotypes into real worldish cultures a bit cheap, but it gets the job done.

Shifty
2008-04-21, 01:35 PM
The south needs something. Zulus or what have you.

The south will have something, but I'm not too concerned with them right now. I'm only really trying to deal with areas the players may end up in an early game. There's a thousand miles of desert, chock-full with greedy, murderous Al-Malikim, and then open ocean, and then nothing but trackless, disease infested green hell as far as anyone's ever been. If you're still imagining an area similar to the Mediterranean, imagine that the sea is a thousand or so miles wider north/south than it really is, and butts right onto the Congo. That makes it hard to get out much more than panicked reports of men with snake's heads and horrible, wasting disease. A thriving culture of yuan-ti headhunters in the jungle rivers does sound like a source for some Cannibal Holocaust style village burning, once the players have better Fort saves, but they can wait.

Eldariel
2008-04-21, 01:46 PM
Steel worshipping dwarves is good. I always like a good Brotherhood of Steel theme. Give them crossbows to ensure technological superiority over ignorant barbarians and you're all set.

The ancient ogre empire was stone age Egyptian flavored perhaps? They worked exclusively on stone, considered metal use cheating, engineered pyramids and hanging gardens and whatnot, which was an affront to steel lovers. Dwarves crusaded upon peaceful ogres and drove them away from good quarries into swamps where they slowly degenerated into semi savages. What little good stone artifacts they preserved are holy relics of a glorious past.

Passive Ogres doesn't sound right; making them some sort of a victim seems kind of forced 'anti-standard world'. Ogres could be warlike to a 'normal degree' - God knows all races in our distant past were too - and have fought to defend themselves and lost. Or maybe betrayed by the Dwarves in some kind of false alliance to generate 'infiltration' and sort of Code 0 to start the offense at a time when everything is in place. Anyways, it seems wrong that the Ogres somehow didn't fight back or such; just having them fight and lose feels more natural and believable.

Pronounceable
2008-04-21, 06:58 PM
It's already filled with somewhat forced anti standards anyway. It only lacks a noble culture nature worshipping of orcs... Not to say it's bad, seeing that Weiss and Hickmann could get away with Sovereign Stone series(or whatever the hell that was).

Sure the ogres would've fought back. I assumed everyone else would also assume that.