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View Full Version : Will this balance out Wizards with Spontaneous casters?



Frosty
2008-04-29, 03:19 PM
In Sorcerer vs Wizard, the result have, by general concensus, typically has seen the Wizard declared the superior class, whether it be due to better metamagic options, bonus feats, better casting stat, etc. How would this tweak I propose help bridge the gap?

All spontaneous casters use the spell-point system instead of the spell-slot system. Spontaneous casters also have 10% more spell-points than the indicated values from Unearthed Arcana (this is to fix the "Focused Specialist can cast just as many spells" syndrome. Sorcerers really should have the advantage of being able to last a lot longer). Metamagic is applied on the fly, without casting-time increase. Sorcerers gain bonus metamagic/heritage feats at 1/5/10/15/20.

Basically, spontaneous casters get MP, so you could cast like 12 level 9 spells or 204 first spells depending on what your needs. This gives sorcerers a different type of versatility, and minimizes the need to preparation.

Kyeudo
2008-04-29, 03:31 PM
If you want to play an optimized spontaneous caster, play a Psion and call yourself a Sorcerer. Fluff wise it works out similarly, and mechanics wise you can give a Wizard a run for his money so long as you make good power choices.

Repeekluos
2008-04-29, 04:10 PM
I donít know about the spell points, but if you drop the feats, and just give the Sorcerer the same Learning progression that goes a long way to bridge the gap. I actually ran that in one of my games and it went over great.

Kurald Galain
2008-04-29, 04:14 PM
Use the sorcerer from Paizo's Pathfinder RPG.

http://paizo.com

Kizara
2008-04-29, 04:38 PM
Or use mine:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78162

Emperor Tippy
2008-04-29, 05:00 PM
Just do the following:
Take the Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm), use the Sorcerer skill list, remove the Discipline class feature, replace the Psicrystal with the Familiar, and replace the list of powers with the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

It makes a sorcerer that fits thematically and is fairly equal to the wizard in power.

Tokiko Mima
2008-04-29, 05:11 PM
Or use Spirit Shaman spellcasting: the same sorcerer class, but now the sorcerer gets to change their spells known out every single morning. Actually... that's actually a whole lot better than wizard all of a sudden. :smallamused:

Of course, the fact that Sorcerers have no useful class features to speak of does encourage people to PrC out ASAP, since the only good part of Sorcerer is the spellcasting, and any fullcaster PrC gets that already.

MeklorIlavator
2008-04-29, 05:15 PM
Just do the following:
Take the Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm), use the Sorcerer skill list, remove the Discipline class feature, replace the Psicrystal with the Familiar, and replace the list of powers with the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

It makes a sorcerer that fits thematically and is fairly equal to the wizard in power.

Psions don't automatically get psicrystals. They have to take a feat.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-04-29, 05:25 PM
Or use Spirit Shaman spellcasting: the same sorcerer class, but now the sorcerer gets to change their spells known out every single morning. Actually... that's actually a whole lot better than wizard all of a sudden. :smallamused:

Not really. 3 spells per level means you still can't cascade buffs like a Wizard can.

Starbuck_II
2008-04-29, 07:17 PM
Just do the following:
Take the Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm), use the Sorcerer skill list, remove the Discipline class feature, replace the Psicrystal with the Familiar, and replace the list of powers with the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

It makes a sorcerer that fits thematically and is fairly equal to the wizard in power.

Mr. Emperor, did you never read the 3.5 Psion lately? Only in 3.0 did he get a Psicrystal class feature.

Or maybe you confused Psion with Erudite?

Psions get a bonus feat: because unlike Wizards sometimes Psions don't want a creature with them (even though the Psi cystal is just a piece of your personality incarnate).

Secondly:
But no!
Replacing spell list with powers is not balanced. Spells give their benefit with no extra cost even in unearth arcana (except damage stuff): Glitterdust cares not how many spell points.
Only damage spells care like Magic Missile, Fireball, etc, you know the in-efficient stuff.

Riffington
2008-04-29, 07:28 PM
You seriously want to balance Sorcerers by making them *more* powerful?
Instead, stop just giving the wizard every spell he wants.
Sure, wizards are more powerful than sorcerers if you can just head on over to the local Spell-o-rama and pick up a Cloudkill and some boiled peanuts. Adjust the difficulty of obtaining spells accordingly.

Emperor Tippy
2008-04-29, 07:30 PM
Mr. Emperor, did you never read the 3.5 Psion lately? Only in 3.0 did he get a Psicrystal class feature.
Meh, I've never seen the 3.0 psion. I just didn't notice that it required a feat. Still doesn't matter.


Or maybe you confused Psion with Erudite?
Nope, as far as I'm concerned Complete Psi doesn't exist.


Psions get a bonus feat: because unlike Wizards sometimes Psions don't want a creature with them (even though the Psi cystal is just a piece of your personality incarnate).
Yep.


Secondly:
But no!
Replacing spell list with powers is not balanced. Spells give their benefit with no extra cost even in unearth arcana (except damage stuff): Glitterdust cares not how many spell points.
Only damage spells care like Magic Missile, Fireball, etc, you know the in-efficient stuff.
I said replacing the powers list with the spells list. And it is balanced.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-29, 07:46 PM
If you want to power a Sorcerer up to the level of a Wizard, give them the bonus feats, allowing them to qualify for the Wizard ACFs; allow Sorcerers to specialize, gaining an extra spell known and per day at each spell level; and reduce the Metamagic time so Sorcerers don't get utterly destroyed when they try to extend a spell.

The Necroswanso
2008-04-29, 08:16 PM
If you want to power a Sorcerer up to the level of a Wizard, give them the bonus feats, allowing them to qualify for the Wizard ACFs; allow Sorcerers to specialize, gaining an extra spell known and per day at each spell level; and reduce the Metamagic time so Sorcerers don't get utterly destroyed when they try to extend a spell.
Then the only difference would be skills and spontaneous casting. Which then in turns doesn't make it as powerful, makes it MORE powerful than the wizard.

On second thought it makes a difference in skill points and higher spells known vs. more spells epr day and spontaneous casting. That's a very big chocie to make actually.... I must test these new waters.

Sholos
2008-04-29, 08:43 PM
Yeah, the wizard is still way more flexible. That fix just actually makes the sorcerer fun to play. Well, from my view, anyways.

Frosty
2008-04-29, 08:54 PM
Yeah, the wizard is still way more flexible. That fix just actually makes the sorcerer fun to play. Well, from my view, anyways.

Which fix? Mine or some one elses?

Sholos
2008-04-29, 09:00 PM
Which fix? Mine or some one elses?

Both yours and Sstoopidtallkid's.