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View Full Version : Real Languages in D&D, is this idea a good one, or not worth it



EvilElitest
2008-04-30, 09:02 PM
I'm a lover languages, and through i can't even speak spanish, i've been considering implimenting real world languages into my games. Elves speaking french for example (i have french friends) and Spanish Halflings for example. However i'm not sure if this would work actually and might simply cause confusion. I want to know what you people think, ignore weather it is possible, just if it could work do you think it works in theory?
from
EE

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-30, 09:11 PM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/stoopidtallkid/RPG%20motivational/Welch/mrwelch.jpg

That said, if it works for you, fine. Dwarves should be Scottish or Irish, Elves are definitely French, Halflings probably speak Romani (Hindi, if you aren't that diverse). Orcs speak either Russian or German, I don't care which, and Dragons speak Latin. Everyone else can be decided when they arrive.

DraPrime
2008-04-30, 09:12 PM
Well, you could simply have their languages sound like real world languages. Give them names that sound like they belong to the language respective to the race. A french elf could be called Jacques, just with a bit of variation. Pronounce the "ues" instead of not saying it like you normally should.

EvilElitest
2008-04-30, 09:15 PM
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m126/stoopidtallkid/RPG%20motivational/Welch/mrwelch.jpg

Ahhhh




That said, if it works for you, fine. Dwarves should be Scottish or Irish, Elves are definitely French, Halflings probably speak Romani (Hindi, if you aren't that diverse). Orcs speak either Russian or German, I don't care which, and Dragons speak Latin. Everyone else can be decided when they arrive.


dwarves- German, maybe Nordic
High Elves- French
Wood elves- Span Spanish
Common Halfings- Romani, nice idea
Stoutfoot, Latin American Spanish
Orcs- Russian
Dragons- Latin, nice idea
Gnomes- Dutch
from
EE

Edit
I"ve been doing that actually, its just i've been mixing languages, and so i want to make it clear what language=screwed up fantasy version

Hzurr
2008-04-30, 09:22 PM
dwarves- German, maybe Nordic
High Elves- French
Wood elves- Span Spanish
Common Halfings- Romani, nice idea
Stoutfoot, Latin American Spanish
Orcs- Russian
Dragons- Latin, nice idea
Gnomes- Dutch



Yeah...this feels about right

EvilElitest
2008-04-30, 09:24 PM
Yeah...this feels about right

What about other races. I like German Dwarfs
from
EE

FlyMolo
2008-04-30, 09:25 PM
I love latin dragons.

On the other hand, I guarantee someone is going to pull up google translate.

EvilElitest
2008-04-30, 09:39 PM
I love latin dragons.

On the other hand, I guarantee someone is going to pull up google translate.

oh god...
from
EE

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-30, 09:43 PM
I love latin dragons.

On the other hand, I guarantee someone is going to pull up google translate."I'm casting Tongues"
"But you're the Rogue"
"I have 12 Ranks in Knowledge: Internet.:smalltongue:"

EvilElitest
2008-04-30, 09:47 PM
"I'm casting Tongues"
"But you're the Rogue"
"I have 12 Ranks in Knowledge: Internet.:smalltongue:"

Touche
from
EE

Turcano
2008-04-30, 09:56 PM
I dug up my response to a similar thread from a year ago:


Elven: Basque. If you didn't know anything about the two languages, you might confuse it for Spanish, but most people find the syntax bizarre.

Dwarven: Abaza. One of my professors was one of the foremost experts on this language, and if I didn't know any better, I'd swear it was made up on a dare.

Gnomish: Georgian. Like Abaza, it's a Caucasian language, but it's a bit less... sadistic. (Dang. I just realized all of the languages I've picked so far are ergative. What does that say about me?)

Halfling: Dutch or Frisian. This is mainly due to my views on race origins and the fact that English is my native language.

Giant: Indonesian.

Draconic: !Kung. Dragons might have problems with labial consonants and so would use non-pulmonic consonants to compensate, which !Kung has in abundance. Kobolds and similar creatures speak Xhosa.

Orcish: Nahuatl.

Goblin: Quechua.

Druidic: Welsh. Still Celtic, but different.

Collin152
2008-04-30, 10:04 PM
What? No.
Elves speak Japanese.
Dwarves speak Russian.
Haflings speak Romanian.
Gnomes speak Hebrew.
Orcs speak Greek.
I could go on.

EvilElitest
2008-04-30, 10:35 PM
What? No.
Elves speak Japanese.
Dwarves speak Russian.
Haflings speak Romanian.
Gnomes speak Hebrew.
Orcs speak Greek.
I could go on.

Greek orcs?
from
EE

Agrippa
2008-04-30, 10:38 PM
I prefer something a bit different.

Dwarven: German or Old Norse
Gnomesh: French and German
Halfling: Flemish
High Elven: Old Irish
Wood Elven: Scottish Gaelic
Orcish: Old Irish mixed with Ancient Greek

How does that look?

averagejoe
2008-04-30, 10:39 PM
Well, they already have english in DnD, except they always call it "common," so other real world languages wouldn't be a big stretch. I've always thought this would be a good idea anyways, since most people don't bother with doing enough research/study to create satisfying fictional languages/language fragments.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-04-30, 10:41 PM
What? No.
Elves speak French.
Dwarves speak Scottish.
Haflings speak Romani.
Gnomes speak Hebrew.
Orcs speak German.
I could go on.Fixed. I'll give you the Gnomes, but the others fit far better with the races' personas the way I wrote them.

Agrippa
2008-04-30, 10:43 PM
Greek orcs?
from
EE

Think of them as the Spartans. Come to think of it I like to think of orcs as a cmobination of the Spartans and Irish, with a heavy focus on eugenics (Spartan influence) and sapient sacrific (Celtic influence). Add in a good dose of Tau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_(Warhammer_40,000)) ideology and you're golden. Like elves, orcs are more intelligent than humans.

Collin152
2008-04-30, 10:46 PM
Fixed. I'll give you the Gnomes, but the others fit far better with the races' personas the way I wrote them.

I refuse to believe elves don't have tea ceremonies.

But hey, my Gnomes are good enough, it seems.

SilentNight
2008-04-30, 10:54 PM
Howzabout this

High Elves speak Japanese
Gray elves speak Gaelic or Welsh
Wild Elves speak whatever the Mayans called their language
Dwarves are Norse
Halflings are Mongols?(Did the Mongols have their own language or did they speak some dialect of Chinese? I can't remember.)
Gnomes are Dutch
Orcs are German
Asherati(Sandstorm)Speak Arabic

Ascension
2008-04-30, 11:03 PM
If you're going to have Orcs speak Greek, have them speak "Frat Greek," i.e. they actually speak English and have no idea how to speak Greek, but they string random Greek letters that look like random English letters together in slightly amusing patterns.

I personally think personifying the Orcs as an entire race of drunken frat boys fits pretty well.

Collin152
2008-04-30, 11:04 PM
Well, I dislke Dwarves with Scottish, German, or Norse involved, but alright then. Japanese elves for the win.
Arigatou gozaimasu.
ありがとうございます。

MisterSaturnine
2008-04-30, 11:07 PM
Gnomes would probably speak Yiddish, not Hebrew. I agree with Elven French, but I kind of like Halflings speaking Italian and Orcs speaking...ooh! Maybe Haitian Creole?

Collin152
2008-04-30, 11:13 PM
Gnomes would probably speak Yiddish, not Hebrew. I agree with Elven French, but I kind of like Halflings speaking Italian and Orcs speaking...ooh! Maybe Haitian Creole?

Yiddish speaking Gnomes?
Wonderful idea!
Let us drink to it!
L'Chaim!

leperkhaun
2008-05-01, 12:04 AM
IM sure you probably already thought of this, but for dwarven and elven, orc/goblinoid, you could always take tolkiens languages.

DanielX
2008-05-01, 12:08 AM
I have tried to think of something similar, but it was using pre-modern languages and "families" only. The world where one of my Town characters comes from uses this... I connected language to religion.

Humans, based around the "Roman Empire" and points east, speak Latin, Greek, Semitic, or Indo-Aryan languages. They thus also worship either the Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, or Indian gods (generally; some humans worship the gods of 'others', and vice versa).
Dwarves speak Nordic or Germanic languages. I suppose Gnomes would as well, except Dwarves use something closer to modern Norwegian, Swedish, or Danish, while Gnomes speak something more akin to Dutch or similar dialects of German. Dwarves come from Norse mythology. They both, I suppose, worship the Norse gods,. An eastern group could speak Baltic tongues (e.g. Lithuanian).
Elves speak Celtic languages - akin to Gaelic or Welsh. This is largely because of the fact that the Sidhe/Sith of Celtic mythology are one of the origins of modern "elves". I guess Drow, if they exist in this world, would use a variant. They also worship Celtic deities.
Orcs use Slavic tongues - mainly because I connected them to Tchernobog, a Slavic deity that Early Christians saw (probably wrongly) as an analogue for Satan. . Non-evil Orcs would likely worship other figures in Slavic mythology.
Halflings/hobbits likely speak a variant of the language humans, dwarves, or elves use in the area they live, and worship a subset of the same Gods. If they have their own tongue, perhaps the ancestor to Basque would be appropriate.
Giants, giantkin, or whatever could perhaps (this is a copy off of the "Tears of Blood" community world, I know) speak Finno-Ugric languages (Finnish, Estonian, Saami, etc), and worship the Finnish deities. Alternatively, the Finno-Ugrics are a separate group of Elves.
If you go around to other parts of the world, different species have different tongues, or the same species uses a different tongue elsewhere (Ainu elves? Inuit giantkin? San halflings? whatever!).

The Extinguisher
2008-05-01, 12:18 AM
Something slightly offtopic, I've always wanted to invent some languages for other species. Like humans have a million and a half languages, but elves have one?

SilverSheriff
2008-05-01, 01:53 AM
Dwarves should speak German, Germany had a lot of scientist at the start of last century, therefore German should not be discarded as Orcish.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-05-01, 02:55 AM
I'm a fan of Russian Dwarf and German Goblin, but my fanboyishness over the Ring cycle might get me to invert that.

Orcs speak Hungarian (Magyar). They would speak Mongolian if I had any bloody clue what that sounded like. Non-Russian Ostroslav languages are also an option.

Draconic is Latin, because that's what all the magic is written in. Kobolds and Lizardfolk would speak Vulgar Latin, most Dragons strictly High.

Manga Shoggoth
2008-05-01, 04:10 AM
The languages really aren't an issue, provided the Big Evil Bad Guy has an educated Upper-class English Accent.

Kioran
2008-05-01, 05:16 AM
Why do the lawful RL-societies and their languages always get the raw deal? *shudder* elves *convulse* gnomes *retch*

Japanese is, of course, Infernal - Evidence: Japan is responsible for 90% of the worlds depraved material, and they use characters similiar to chinese - which is, of course, Abyssal..... :smallbiggrin:

No seriously, German for Orcs is perfectly okay, but if the race doesn´t reach a grown mans nipples, they cannot compete. Sorry.

Blanks
2008-05-01, 05:29 AM
I began giving different areas names according to different RL cultures about 2-3 years ago, and its working out fine for me. I haven't done it with races, only locations.

oh, and by the way, comparing Jews and gnomes - you know who else said jews had long noses? :smallconfused:

*chuckles while still being slightly disturbed by the idea*

LCR
2008-05-01, 06:13 AM
Why does German get associated with a mostly tribal civilization like the Orcs?
Sure, there is that connotation of "evil Germany", but really, I think Mongol or maybe the Maori language (beware of the mighty All Blacks tribe ...) would be more fitting.

Rutee
2008-05-01, 06:34 AM
Because you can not sound benevolent in German :smallyuk:

I'd use German for Gnomes. Why? They seem like the most industrial-capable of the races, and whenever I think of fantasy germany I think of steampunk for some reason or other, and Gnomes are the inventor cranks.

Elves as the British or the French sounds good. It connotes a /belief/ that one is spreading culture through the world, if not a /reality/ (Either is fine).

Um... I kind of like Japanese for the Dwarves, if you're playing them as insular or xenophobic. If not the Dwarves, then the Drow, since they /are/ insular, xenophobic, and can deliver treachery with a smile (Referring to feudal Japan, which is what I think of with 'fantasy Japan', not a stereotype of actual japanese people.)

If you don't use Japanese for Dwarves, resist gaelic; Gaelic is a tongue for people in tune with nature, and that seems like the Halflings. I'd say that barring Japanese.. oh I don't know Spanish would do well. Castilian Spanish, mind. I dunno, the gold obsession that Spain is often characterized with also fits Dwarves. Dunno about the rest though..

Citizen Jenkins
2008-05-01, 10:12 AM
Honestly, unless everyone at your table is multi-lingual, I usually avoid assigning real life languages to races. Instead, if I happen to have a player who is multi-lingual I usually set up a nation of French-speaking Elves of Spanish-speaking humans and have him be a member of that. Not only does it save the other players at the table from feeling stupid (after all, if all elves speak French only players fluent in French can really play elves) but it gives that player a cool and unique backstory (especially why their country/homeland developed this unique language.

Additionally, if you have a player doing this, recommend that they play their character as having an imperfect command of Common/English. After all, to speak another language with perfect fluency is actually quite difficult and it provides a ton of roleplaying opprotunities (and potential humor).

Although I will admit I've always wanted to play with another person who can speak Spanish so we could do exactly what you're discussing here and have fluent in-game conversations in a completely different language from the rest of the PCs. Of course, my odds of finding both another player and a DM up for this are slim but a man can dream.

Thane of Fife
2008-05-01, 11:34 AM
My contribution to this thread will be this:

A List of Spell Names in Latin (http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/stonekeep/25/latin.htm)

Watch out for the dreaded Neca nubi - Avarium vis combo!

Note: I don't speak Latin, and cannot verify how accurate these are, but they sound pretty good.

The_Werebear
2008-05-01, 11:41 AM
Hrmm..

Well, for a homebrew setting I am collaborating on, we have shifted the races around a bit and assigned cultural parallels to them.

Dwarves: Greek. They live in small, self contained communities in the most mountainous and rugged region of the continent. They raise great stone edifices above and underground. Their armies consist of anyone who can afford the appropriate armor, shield, and pike (yes, they use pikes and spears rather than axes inside of tunnels) who is willing to fight in defense of their home. They are generally ruled by oligarchies of aristocrats and petty dictators, though most of them are fairly benevolent.

Elves: French. Needs no explanation.

Orcs: Pre-Modern Germanic. The orcs control sections of the mountainous terrain where the dwarves also live. Occasionally, they raid. More often, they fight as Mercenaries for Dwarf Cities. They live in tribes and small states, the borders of which are continually shifting as they war among themselves. They are modeled on groups like the Thracians, Dacians, and other groups the Greeks saw as barbarians.

Halflings: Romani. The halflings move about the plains of the region in fortified wagons, trading with each other, and anyone who crosses their paths. The few cities they have set up are minor.

Goblins: Mongolian. The Goblins compete with the halflings for control of the plains, though they ride plains dogs instead of wolves or ponies. They are excellent horse archers

LCR
2008-05-01, 12:12 PM
Because you can not sound benevolent in German :smallyuk:



Das ist nicht wahr! Deutsch ist eine großartige Sprache, mein Herr! Jawoll.


Geez. Stereotypical German is soo exhausting to write/speak.

Anyway, I think I can't contribute much on this topic, as German is my natural language and I find it hard to find out how a certain language might sound to an anglophone person.

Jayngfet
2008-05-01, 01:50 PM
If you're going to have Orcs speak Greek, have them speak "Frat Greek," i.e. they actually speak English and have no idea how to speak Greek, but they string random Greek letters that look like random English letters together in slightly amusing patterns.

I personally think personifying the Orcs as an entire race of drunken frat boys fits pretty well.

clearly you've never played kingdom of loathing, that's literally the only kind of orc

Kioran
2008-05-01, 01:55 PM
Because you can not sound benevolent in German :smallyuk:

"WAAASSS? Will hier jemand Faust? Ist hier jemand ihres Lebens überdrüssig?" :smallcool:

No, all jokes aside, kind of generalization is.....shall we say, well....incorrect. Okay, we do some consonants, vowels and/or combinations and variations thereof the typical American english speaker can´t even pronounce, but even so - german is less concise, and can certainly sound harsh or martial. But it can also be a poetic or precise language. It doesn´t really fit Orcs as such, but I, as a player, have a hard time respecting all small races save Goblins.......and so......No german speaking dwarves for me.

Collin152
2008-05-01, 07:25 PM
Elves: French. Needs no explanation.


Oh, but it does.



Japanese Drow?
I like.
So, what, Japanese is the drow dialect of elven, or undercommon?

Rutee
2008-05-01, 07:38 PM
No, all jokes aside, kind of generalization is.....shall we say, well....incorrect.
That's why it was a joke. Like I said, I fit it in with Gnomes because for some reason, when I think "Fantasy Germany" I think of the industrial powerhouse that characterized the immediate formation of the German State, which Gnomes seem to be the most capable of reaching as a people. If you don't like gnomes, no worries, that was just my logic.


So, what, Japanese is the drow dialect of elven, or undercommon?
Most of the undercommon speaking races have the traits I ascribed to the Drow that made Japanese seem logical, don't they? (Xenophobic and insular)

Icewalker
2008-05-01, 07:41 PM
I'm doing this, not on the grounds of player knowledge though, but rather exactly otherwise. My elves are Japanese, and the second human continent is Spanish.

The main thing I do with that is names though. I name people words in other languages. Like the champions Relampago, Trueno, and Veneno.

Also, a villain named Dudad, which is a command for basically "You all doubt." He's an illusionist :smalltongue:

TheMuffinThief
2008-05-01, 07:45 PM
Well if it's a language your players aren't supposed to understand, it'd be a lot less work just to speak stuff that sounds Spanish, French, etc.


That being said, I don't really associate most D&D races with real-life ethnicities. I mean dwarves are Scottish, but other than that elves, orcs, etc. have their own image and culture built up in my mind.

Oh and a lot of barbarian tribes have Slavic accents :P

EvilElitest
2008-05-01, 07:54 PM
"WAAASSS? Will hier jemand Faust? Ist hier jemand ihres Lebens überdrüssig?" :smallcool:

No, all jokes aside, kind of generalization is.....shall we say, well....incorrect. Okay, we do some consonants, vowels and/or combinations and variations thereof the typical American english speaker can´t even pronounce, but even so - german is less concise, and can certainly sound harsh or martial. But it can also be a poetic or precise language. It doesn´t really fit Orcs as such, but I, as a player, have a hard time respecting all small races save Goblins.......and so......No german speaking dwarves for me.

Mozart was Austrian/german
from
EE

Blanks
2008-05-02, 02:04 AM
That being said, I don't really associate most D&D races with real-life ethnicities. I mean dwarves are Scottish, I cannot be the only one who is tired of this cliche?
Every dwarf is drunk, hates water and speaks with a (horrible) scottish accent...

Hooray for the classics i guess :smallsigh:

Kami2awa
2008-05-02, 02:11 AM
I refuse to believe elves don't have tea ceremonies.

But hey, my Gnomes are good enough, it seems.

If you live for thousands of years, spending 3 hours boiling tea doesn't seem such a big thing any more...

If you wanted to do this in game you could always go down the 'Ello 'Ello route of speaking in a silly accent when you want to show you are speaking a different language.

Kami2awa
2008-05-02, 02:13 AM
Mozart was Austrian/german
from
EE

I think German sounds a lot nicer than some romance languages; it's only got a reputation for being harsh and guttural from being spoken that way in a lot of war films.

Mmmm German elves...

Kizara
2008-05-02, 02:14 AM
I suggest you have a look at my language system if you want to add depth to the way language is used in D&D.

The link is in my sig (first section).

Note that I also made spells such as Comprehend Languages and Tongues 2 levels higher.

Kami2awa
2008-05-02, 02:15 AM
Why does German get associated with a mostly tribal civilization like the Orcs?
Sure, there is that connotation of "evil Germany", but really, I think Mongol or maybe the Maori language (beware of the mighty All Blacks tribe ...) would be more fitting.

That's such a cool image; orcs doing the All Blacks war dance...

Remember some D&D languages are related to one another just as real world languages are; for example Drow is a corrupt form of Elvish, so they should sound similar.

Also I'd suggest making the Monk ability Tongue of the Sun and Moon lower level so that Monks get it before wizards get Comprehend Languages.

Anteros
2008-05-02, 02:51 AM
Really though, unless the people at your table are going to know what you're saying...you could just spout gibberish and get the exact same effect for a whole lot less work. Also, just because you prepare a few phrases before hand in say German...what happens when a situation arises that you need to be able to say something you haven't prepared? I know I wouldn't want to sit there and wait while you go through the translation books.

Just making them sound like the language in question should be fine though, as long as you don't have any native speakers of that language in your group whom you may offend.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-02, 02:55 AM
Really though, unless the people at your table are going to know what you're saying...you could just spout gibberish and get the exact same effect for a whole lot less work. Also, just because you prepare a few phrases before hand in say German...what happens when a situation arises that you need to be able to say something you haven't prepared? I know I wouldn't want to sit there and wait while you go through the translation books.

Just making them sound like the language in question should be fine though, as long as you don't have any native speakers of that language in your group whom you may offend.Google Translate. Shouldn't take more than a few seconds if you have the site up.

The_Werebear
2008-05-02, 03:41 AM
Oh, but it does.



Ok then. The elves of this campaign setting are cultural elitists who hover vaguely in the "seen better days" category. Their language is expressive and famous for it's poetic, flowing style. We decided French was appropriate.

If anyone is offended by the above, keep in mind that we strongly considered doing Texan or Midwestern American English for (Non evil, but chaotic individualists who like being rowdy and winning big) Orcs before deciding Early tribal Germanic (or would it be Celtic?) would fit with the others better.

Starshade
2008-05-02, 04:08 AM
Im a native Norwegian speaker, and is not offended by the idea of Dwarves speaking a scandinavian language, it probably fits somewhat.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-02, 07:09 AM
Also, Ogres have a Schwarzenegger voice, and the grammar of the Orcs from the recent OotS strip.

And who does get a Southern accent? I can't think of a race it really fits.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-05-02, 10:44 AM
Most of my campaign settings are based on the RL Middle Ages, so there will be tons of regional languages---French, Alsacian, Languedocian, Breton, Gascon, etc.--and then the tongue of the old lost Empire to substitute for "Common."

I've never been comfortable with the idea of using fantasy races as analogues for real world nations, though. If you like the idea, fair enough, but I think if I was Scotch I'd be somewhat miffed at the implication that all Scottish people are fat, brawny, industrious drunkards. Or if I were French that we were all a bunch of artsy-fartsy gilded lillies.

The_Werebear
2008-05-02, 11:31 AM
Also, Ogres have a Schwarzenegger voice, and the grammar of the Orcs from the recent OotS strip.

And who does get a Southern accent? I can't think of a race it really fits.

Halflings.

EvilElitest
2008-05-02, 11:46 AM
I think German sounds a lot nicer than some romance languages; it's only got a reputation for being harsh and guttural from being spoken that way in a lot of war films.

Mmmm German elves...

As somebody who has a lot of Germany Family members (trust me, i'm related to everybody) it can sound really cool in singing or talking. That being said, it can also be extremly scary compared to say, French or Italion. I watched hte World Cup in Germany, oh gods the yelling


Also as a southern old schooler, North Carolinian accents are only allowed to epic level wizards
from
EE

Collin152
2008-05-02, 05:45 PM
Halflings.

My thoughts precisely and concisely.

Also, my head speaks like a southern belle, and when I lose control, I tend to adopt that accent and speech mannerisms.

ahammer
2008-05-02, 06:10 PM
o comon no one said the one for orks that is right


The Orks speak the same language that most humans do, although due to possessing tusks they can't pronounce words in the same way. For example, they seem unable to voice some letters, such as the letter "h", or "er". In written form a ' is often added to show the sudden break in tone as if choking. Therefore, they pronounce words such as "hunter" as " 'Unta ", "head" as " 'Ead ". Shooter becomes shoota, and so forth. Their speech seems largely based on a Cockney or Estuary English accent, although it is important to note that English is only used to represent the Imperial language so we can understand it; humans actually speak Low Gothic and High Gothic which are descended from today's languages but almost certainly unintelligible to us. In the game's 2nd edition (and repeated with additions and modifications in the game Gorkamorka), the orks have a runic/glyphic language, with simple symbols used to carry the meaning of certain words (generally battlefield/mechanical concepts) with glyphs capable of spelling words without a specific symbol. While this has not been carried into the 3rd edition codex, your average ork warband will still be covered in these glyphs, often painted in clan colours.

Orks seem incapable of making the "th" sound with tongue and tooth, therefore they simply spit out an "f" sound, producing words like "teef", "fings", and "fose" as opposed to "teeth", "things", and "those".

In addition, they do not pluralise in the same fashion as humans, preferring the harsh buzzing of 'z' to the soft hissing of 's.' So, the term for multiple Orks armed with sluggas and choppas is Slugga Boyz, and so on for Mekboyz, Grotz, Mad Dokz, etc.

When (and if) an ork spells something in glyphic, it should be done "Fohnetikalee"(phonetically).

taken from wikipeda for warhammer 40k

Riffington
2008-05-02, 06:23 PM
The only (minor) problem with Gnomes speaking Yiddish is that Hebrew needs to be Celestial.

EvilElitest
2008-05-02, 06:40 PM
My thoughts precisely and concisely.

Also, my head speaks like a southern belle, and when I lose control, I tend to adopt that accent and speech mannerisms.

And that is how things should be, Souther Accents unite
from
EE

Collin152
2008-05-02, 06:43 PM
And that is how things should be, Souther Accents unite
from
EE

Then again, I speak with a british accent when I'm covering something up.

And when I'm overy complacent about something, I sound like I just watched Fiddler on the Roof.

EvilElitest
2008-05-02, 06:49 PM
Then again, I speak with a british accent when I'm covering something up.

And when I'm overy complacent about something, I sound like I just watched Fiddler on the Roof.

Changing accents in different situations, i like it
from
EE

Anteros
2008-05-02, 07:48 PM
Google Translate. Shouldn't take more than a few seconds if you have the site up.

If you're using google translate or freetranslate.com or any website like that, you may as well be spouting gibberish, because they do not work.

Languages do not translate that nicely and directly into one another. As someone who is relatively fluent in a few languages, I promise you, the gibberish that google translate gives you would make no sense to a native speaker.

Xyk
2008-05-02, 08:53 PM
I don't know if someone brought this up already, but it is worth mentioning the different alphabets. I know alot of dnd things write in elven, more in dwarven. I'd put dwarven or common and everything that writes their alphabets in the alphabet we know in english.

I'd put draconic in greek.
Elven in Hindi (sanskrit writing because it looks like that in tolkien)
etc.

Eldariel
2008-05-02, 08:59 PM
Draconic should be Sanskrit; it's more obscure and versatile than Latin (which is, of course, rich in and of itself), and sounds very arcane to an untrained ear.

German is an interesting case, since the language has many strong sounds (most importantly, the ubiquitous 'sch'), but whether you emphasize or cover them makes all the difference. It feels sort of wrong for the Elves; Elven should be flowing and soft, like the folk themselves. Speech is art for them, after all. Mayhap Swedish, although I wouldn't object to French either. Both have such qualities, but French is more artificially guided throughout its development, which could convey the idea of carefully created, ancient words.


I'd say Dwarves could indeed speak Norwegian or Danish, or even Icelandic. The roots of the mythology lead to Scandinavia anyways, and all 3 of those languages have a number of strong sounds (so many in fact that many of them state, Swedes sing when speaking - almost the same language, but the pronunciation is completely different). Polish could also work for Dwarves, and German (Bayern German, specifically) seem to all fit them. A language that conveys strength, determination, powerful emotions and extremes serves; my choice would probably be Polish actually.

I feel Orcs should have another of the strong languages; German, for example, would make for decent Orcish (although I suppose all the 's's might be out of place as Orcish should be simple sound-wise). Maybe some of the smaller Asian languages could serve instead. There're ones with really low number of sound variety. Too bad it's been so long since I read linguistics that I don't remember, which specifically were the poorest in that regard.

Halfling speech should be close to Elven if we're giving them their own language and keeping the semi-fey flavour. Spanish has been a good suggestion and Italian and Portuguese too; lacks the eloquence of Elven (French), but is still a flowing, versatile language with interesting structures.

Gnomes could probably speak something that resembles Dwarven; Russian maybe? Something a bit richer, yet still maintaining that stark tone and earthly rhythm. If Dwarven were German, Norwegian would work for Gnomish.


Celestial could probably be ancient Greek (or something really archaic) and for giggles, Abyssal and Infernal could be Hebrew and Arabic. I mean, since those two have always been at war, just like the Abyss and the Nine Hells. And they're both rather complex, ancient languages. They don't sound evil though, but then again, very few languages do.

Elemental languages feel too difficult for me as I have little image of their aspects; the speakers generally tell a great deal of a language, but it's very hard to analyse the mannerisms of elementals. I suppose Terran should again be a strong, Dwarven-style language, Auran should be Elven-style, Ignan should probably be close to Dwarven and maybe the infernal languages, and Aquan could probably again be close to Elven. That's just my vision of it though.


Really, with such a limited scope of languages (I have a conversational command of what, 10 out of the few thousand languages in existence and it's really hard to analyse languages I'm know nothing of), this kind of separation would be extremely difficult. With some more research, more suitable, natural candidates could be uncovered. I really love the idea though and if I ever find a playgroup with this kinds of linguistic versatility, I'm totally implementing it.

Dr Bwaa
2008-05-02, 09:19 PM
for what it's worth, these are my thoughts on who speaks what:

Dwarves: I will never be able to imagine them as anything but English with a Scottish accent. However, for the sake of argument, let's say Dwarven itself is German--written in Cyrillic (Dwarves do have their own alphabet, after all).
Orcs: Russian. They use the Dwarven alphabet any time they do write.
Halflings: English, with an English accent
Druidic: Gaelic
Gnomes: Chinese. I think the sound of it suits them perfectly.
Elves: I like the idea of French because I think it suits them, though it doesn't have its own alphabet and I can't think of a language that does that sounds right to me.
Draconic: Arabic. Definitely Arabic.
Celestial: Latin
Infernal: Latin backwards.
Undercommon: Taxilinga :smallsmile:

I think that's all I've got for now.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-05-02, 09:26 PM
Let's go through my races. None of them speak the actual language, but something close to it.

Dwarves speak gaelic. It's musical, and it doesn't fit the stereotype of dwarves. My dwarves are not stereotypical dwarves at all.
Elves I need to change to speak German. I like the German language; it can be quite interesting to listen to.
Gnomes quite definately speak Dutch. My gnomes are more elf-like than dwarf-like.
Halflings speak Old English. Halfling is what is as good as common in these lands.
Humans speak a language heavily influenced by Halfling, as well as Goblin, as Humans themselves are descended from those two races. However, one group speak with a Russian accent, the others a British accent.
Hobgoblins speak French.
Orcs speak Romanian.

What was originally Half-elf is not actually a Indo-European language at all. It's some deep african language, haven't chosen yet.

I'm making a language tree right now.

Lupy
2008-05-02, 09:33 PM
And who does get a Southern accent? I can't think of a race it really fits.
Some badass sharpshooting rebel elves. 'Nuff said.

Collin152
2008-05-02, 10:01 PM
Dwarves speak gaelic. It's musical, and it doesn't fit the stereotype of dwarves.

Heigh-hoooooooooooo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC541psEO8A)!

EvilElitest
2008-05-02, 10:05 PM
Ineral, backwards latin, is brilliant
from
EE

Riffington
2008-05-03, 10:32 AM
Ineral, backwards latin, is brilliant
from
EE

Yes. So
Celestial = Hebrew
Infernal = Backwards Latin
Abyssal = Backwards Rock and Roll
Draconic = Latin


btw Eldariel: 70 years != always.

SilentNight
2008-05-03, 11:39 AM
Um... I kind of like Japanese for the Dwarves, if you're playing them as insular or xenophobic. If not the Dwarves, then the Drow, since they /are/ insular, xenophobic, and can deliver treachery with a smile (Referring to feudal Japan, which is what I think of with 'fantasy Japan', not a stereotype of actual japanese people.)


ii kangae.

Southern accent goes to half-orcs.
Hogoblins should be German.

Eldariel
2008-05-03, 01:38 PM
Yes. So
Celestial = Hebrew
Infernal = Backwards Latin
Abyssal = Backwards Rock and Roll
Draconic = Latin


btw Eldariel: 70 years != always.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Blood War? It's been on for long enough. Religious wars? These particular ones since the birth of Islam.

Ne0
2008-05-03, 02:11 PM
I have once played a game in which every language was, in fact, spoken differently.

We used Dutch, our native language for Common, since that would be the most commonly used language.
Elven was French, Dwarvish was English, and Orcish was German. (We just matched the languages we know with the way we expected the races to talk. The English accent for dwarvish is perfect, and if you speak French with a very soft and slow voice, you're about as close to Elven as you can get. The orcish german was just hilarious, because we seriously overdid it. :smallbiggrin:)

In one case, there was even a short Draconic conversation between a wizard and something else. We had run out of modern languages (the DM didn't speak Spanish, unfortuntely), so we fell back on a few lines of Latin. :)

All in all, the adventure (which ended after 3 or 4 sessions) was great fun, because of:
1. The texture it adds. Those kinds of little details are just nice to have in your game.
2. How much more fluently the game runs. You don't have to say: "Then X speaks in Dwarvish, so no one else can understand him:..." Language transitions are done smooth and efficient.
3. Word jokes. Misinterpretations between two groups were sometimes hilarious to listen to.
"'Armoire'?" said the dwarf, "How do you mean, an arms war? Well, I certainly can't imagine one without them!" :P

Problem is, you and your fellow players do need a pretty good or at least basic knowledge of several languages. And your DM must know all of them. Around here, in Belgium, that's not so hard, because we learned all of the above languages at school anyways. (Well, Latin is of course optional...)

Collin152
2008-05-03, 02:46 PM
What about Esperanto?
That sounds like a racial language for Warforged, if only they got one.
Manufactured language and all that.

Riffington
2008-05-03, 07:07 PM
I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Blood War? It's been on for long enough. Religious wars? These particular ones since the birth of Islam.

The Blood War has gone on since Eternity.
I am going to avoid specific politics, but the idea that the languages you mentioned would have any kind of real opposition is only 70 years old. Started by a Lawful Evil orator who was trying to reduce the hegemony of a "never-sunless" Empire. A combination of his oratory and that Empire's "play each side against the other" strategy served to create a feud that did not previously exist.

Riffington
2008-05-03, 07:11 PM
What about Esperanto?
That sounds like a racial language for Warforged, if only they got one.
Manufactured language and all that.

Esperanto should be Common.
However, it isn't :)
I agree that it would be kinda cool as a Warforged language (particularly if it's not a racial language and they have to learn it). Combines all the uselessness of a language you have to study to learn with the semiuselessness of a language that nonspeakers can puzzle out :)

Eldariel
2008-05-03, 07:36 PM
The Blood War has gone on since Eternity.
I am going to avoid specific politics, but the idea that the languages you mentioned would have any kind of real opposition is only 70 years old. Started by a Lawful Evil orator who was trying to reduce the hegemony of a "never-sunless" Empire. A combination of his oratory and that Empire's "play each side against the other" strategy served to create a feud that did not previously exist.

The conflict in the holy land way predates those events.

EvilElitest
2008-05-03, 07:38 PM
The conflict in the holy land way predates those events.
Isreal was around before creation? Or am i making a mistake in reference?
from
EE

Riffington
2008-05-03, 07:48 PM
While that piece of land is no stranger to war, its current inhabitants were not enemies until 70 years ago.

Shraik
2008-05-03, 07:53 PM
Well, I think the Halflings would not speak spanish, but probably Irish. I've always viewed the Halflings alot like the Irish.
The Dwarves, Scottish.
The orcs, something guttural.
The Elves something that flows. Anything Romantic or possibly Greek.
The Gnomes

Riffington
2008-05-03, 07:56 PM
Well, I think the Halflings would not speak spanish, but probably Irish. I've always viewed the Halflings alot like the Irish

Do you give them Halfling as a free language, or just have them speak Common (with their grandfathers speaking Halfling when they want to mutter darkly about the humans?)

The Sandman
2008-05-03, 08:10 PM
I would think that Celestial would be either Hebrew or Sanskrit. And work Aramaic in there somewhere too.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2008-05-03, 08:41 PM
Actually, I've changed my half-elves so they speak Sanskrit. It's different enough to be different, while wierdly similar...

Collin152
2008-05-03, 09:56 PM
What about Goblin?
What does Goblin even sound like?

Dervag
2008-05-03, 11:56 PM
What about Esperanto?
That sounds like a racial language for Warforged, if only they got one.
Manufactured language and all that.Esperanto has drawbacks. (http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/w.html) This guy has a bit of an axe to grind, it seems, but I strongly suspect most of his complaints are valid and based on real problems with the grammar of Esperanto.

A big part of the problem was that the guy who invented it was very heavily influenced by Latin and Greek grammar (popular in 19th century Europe but very nonuniversal), and that Esperanto's pronunciation conventions were heavily influenced by the Slavic languages he grew up with. He raises a number of other issues. Since my familiarity with Esperanto is spectacularly limited, I will not digress; he can do it for me since he's the linguist.

One point is that Esperanto doesn't eliminate the possibility of ambiguity in the grammar of sentences and the meaning of words- for instance, the same word is used for 'daughter' and 'dirty linen!'

Lojban is arguably a better candidate. It's specifically intended to handle very precise statements of logic while retaining some flexibility as desired. It's also designed to be culture-neutral, rather than gathering almost all its vocabulary and grammar rules from a single large peninsual while ignoring other major world languages. That would make it quite a bit more suitable as a generic robot language.


Esperanto should be Common.
However, it isn't :)When you think about it, Common should be a common trade language with a grammar and vocabulary hammered together out of bits and pieces of several other languages- the sort of thing that the wandering merchants speak.

English fits the bill fairly well. Constructed languages don't, because constructed languages will typically show artifacts of design. At some point, someone had to sit down and say "Let's design a language that can never have any grammatical ambiguity!" Without that, there will almost always be grammatical ambiguity. And so on. Therefore, if Common emerged more or less naturally, without some elite cadre deciding the whole world was going to speak a specially created language, it would be a lot like English in its origins.

Also like English, it would probably have a very large possible vocabulary of which most people use only a small subset- in different regions people stick different words into the trade dialect. Also like English, it should be extremely easy to learn to speak badly, because for every Common-speaker out there who's fully fluent there should be one or more who can make themselves understood to passing travelers only by speaking in pidgin.


While that piece of land is no stranger to war, its current inhabitants were not enemies until 70 years ago.Largely because they hadn't gotten to know each other...

horseboy
2008-05-04, 01:38 AM
If you're going to have Orcs speak Greek, have them speak "Frat Greek," i.e. they actually speak English and have no idea how to speak Greek, but they string random Greek letters that look like random English letters together in slightly amusing patterns.

I personally think personifying the Orcs as an entire race of drunken frat boys fits pretty well.
Fear the warboss Tappa Kegga Bru!
Of course, I can totally see orcs speaking German, it shouts so well.

Riffington
2008-05-04, 05:36 AM
Largely because they hadn't gotten to know each other...

Well, about half of each side hadn't arrived yet. But the other half (on each side) had, and got along just fine for centuries.

However, this thread'll go better places if we talk more about Esperanto/Standard Warforged Common, and less about history... I can PM people you separately.

Eldariel
2008-05-04, 06:05 AM
Esperanto has drawbacks. (http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/w.html) This guy has a bit of an axe to grind, it seems, but I strongly suspect most of his complaints are valid and based on real problems with the grammar of Esperanto.

A big part of the problem was that the guy who invented it was very heavily influenced by Latin and Greek grammar (popular in 19th century Europe but very nonuniversal), and that Esperanto's pronunciation conventions were heavily influenced by the Slavic languages he grew up with. He raises a number of other issues. Since my familiarity with Esperanto is spectacularly limited, I will not digress; he can do it for me since he's the linguist.

One point is that Esperanto doesn't eliminate the possibility of ambiguity in the grammar of sentences and the meaning of words- for instance, the same word is used for 'daughter' and 'dirty linen!'

Lojban is arguably a better candidate. It's specifically intended to handle very precise statements of logic while retaining some flexibility as desired. It's also designed to be culture-neutral, rather than gathering almost all its vocabulary and grammar rules from a single large peninsual while ignoring other major world languages. That would make it quite a bit more suitable as a generic robot language.

When you think about it, Common should be a common trade language with a grammar and vocabulary hammered together out of bits and pieces of several other languages- the sort of thing that the wandering merchants speak.

English fits the bill fairly well. Constructed languages don't, because constructed languages will typically show artifacts of design. At some point, someone had to sit down and say "Let's design a language that can never have any grammatical ambiguity!" Without that, there will almost always be grammatical ambiguity. And so on. Therefore, if Common emerged more or less naturally, without some elite cadre deciding the whole world was going to speak a specially created language, it would be a lot like English in its origins.

Also like English, it would probably have a very large possible vocabulary of which most people use only a small subset- in different regions people stick different words into the trade dialect. Also like English, it should be extremely easy to learn to speak badly, because for every Common-speaker out there who's fully fluent there should be one or more who can make themselves understood to passing travelers only by speaking in pidgin.

Largely because they hadn't gotten to know each other...


Another way to handle a common language would be to agree on some language of some small country, or some dead language, that nobody/very few people speak anymore. Such a language would be very much neutral (especially if it's of a very small family) and still have all the vocabulary and forms to express basically anything that needs expressing.

Finnish would make for a good common, for example, since the language family is very small and Finnish only has some 5 million speakers. Latvian and Lithuanian would work too, seeing that they basically form their own language family, thus making it exceedingly neutral as far as all others are concerned.

Maroon
2008-05-04, 12:05 PM
In one campaign that never got off the ground, we would have used these accents for flavor:
Common is plain English (as in Home Countries English);
Dwarves have a Scottish accent (well, duh);
Gnomes have an Irish accent;
Halflings have a Welsh accent (for the Hobbit-types, at least -- the others have a Liverpool or Northern Irish accent);
Elves have a Yorkshire accent (it's archaic and comes from Vikings);
The 'lesser races' like Orcs and Ogres and Goblins speak with a Cockney, Essex or Brummie accent (because, you know, criminals).

No idea why it didn't work out...

Turcano
2008-05-04, 02:06 PM
Esperanto has drawbacks. (http://www.xibalba.demon.co.uk/jbr/ranto/w.html) This guy has a bit of an axe to grind, it seems, but I strongly suspect most of his complaints are valid and based on real problems with the grammar of Esperanto.

A big part of the problem was that the guy who invented it was very heavily influenced by Latin and Greek grammar (popular in 19th century Europe but very nonuniversal), and that Esperanto's pronunciation conventions were heavily influenced by the Slavic languages he grew up with. He raises a number of other issues. Since my familiarity with Esperanto is spectacularly limited, I will not digress; he can do it for me since he's the linguist.

One point is that Esperanto doesn't eliminate the possibility of ambiguity in the grammar of sentences and the meaning of words- for instance, the same word is used for 'daughter' and 'dirty linen!'

One of the biggest problems with his analysis is that most (if not all) of his complaints (at least those not related to Esperanto's Eurocentrism) have analogues in real languages. I can assume with a great degree of confidence that JBR would hate Basque and despise Abaza.

Irenaeus
2008-05-04, 03:22 PM
I tend to strongly use real languages as inspiration for the languages in my camapigns. I think it is a great tool for naming characters and places, and I would reccomend it to everyone, as it tends to reduce the frequency of silly fantasy names (unless you're into that sort of thing). Most of my campaign worlds have an almost exclusively human population.

I think I would have elves speak Finnish, it appeals to the Tolkien-fanboy in me. Sanskrit might work also, and I know enough of it to make it a bit more plausible.

Almost any dead language is good when you want some arcane utterings. My current preference is Coptic.

Tura
2008-05-04, 03:57 PM
Hmmm... Despite the fact that I really like languages, I can't say I like the idea. First of all, I think that choosing languages of real people for "evil" (or simply brutal or even just ugly) races, says more about yourself and your perception of the world than anything useful about a fantasy setting.

And second, regardless of how it sounds, I would hate to designate a real language to a fantasy race if they weren't connected in the first place. The elves could speak a celtic language (if you imagine them like the irish sidhe) or a scandinavian language (if you imagine them like the elves of Tolkien). But the other races are either pure fantasy, or derived from the lore of many different peoples. So no, I would rather make up a few languages than use real ones. To each to his own, of course.

[But I did find brilliant the reverse Latin for Infernal. :smallsmile: ]


What I have done, and really enjoyed, is designate made up languages based on real ones, to a homebrew setting which was mostly human, with diverse cultures rather than diverse races. The nomads riders of the steppes spoke an altaic language, something between Mongolian and Turkish. (Yes, George R.R. Martin has already done that. It still is remarkably fitting.) And, as a player, I have encountered "barbarians" with blue tattoos and torques, who were just like (the common perception of) Picts, and spoke, very fittingly, Gaelic. It really adds to the flavor.

Finally, about common. I wouldn't like to use a language that is supposedly made-up for universal communication. On the contrary, every era's Lingua Franca is a very simple and corrupted form of the language of the dominant culture or empire, usually including several words from many other languages. So, if you use English for common, you could actually interlard it with foreign words. The dominant culture could use Middle English, and the learned men (and/or priests) Old English.

Trouvere
2008-05-04, 05:36 PM
Who are you people that your groups are all conversant in English, Latin, Finnish, Gaelic, Sanskrit, Hebrew and Maori? :smalltongue:

Eldariel
2008-05-04, 05:50 PM
I think I would have elves speak Finnish, it appeals to the Tolkien-fanboy in me. Sanskrit might work also, and I know enough of it to make it a bit more plausible.

How about taking it one step further and just making it Quenya? Finnish has complex enough grammar, but the long words can be a bit clunky for something as supposedly flowing and beautiful as Elven. Quenya has words more fitting to that style while still maintaining the rich grammatic aspects (yes, I've studied both - Finnish more than Quenya on the virtue of my location, of course).