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View Full Version : Cleric Domain which grants Move Silently as a class skill.



Tempest Fennac
2008-05-05, 08:08 AM
Are there any Domains which grant Move Silently and Hide as class skills? I was thinking about an excellent Cloistered Cleric build which Yeril suggested in a thread which I started about the class which involves using the Trickery and Kobold Domains to make a compination Divine Caster/Trap disarmer/Stealth expert, but I noticed that the Trickery Domain doesn't give MS as a class skill and I can't find any Domains which grant it.

Curmudgeon
2008-05-05, 08:17 AM
I've checked over 100 domains, and haven't found any. The only benefit for Move Silently is from the Halfling domain (Spell Compendium 275):

Granted Power: Once per day for 10 minutes, you add your Charisma modifier to your Climb, Jump, Move Silently, and Hide checks. Activating this ability is a free action.

The Trickery domain of course adds Hide (and Bluff and Disguise) to your list of class skills.

Kurald Galain
2008-05-05, 08:21 AM
There's a few other ways to get them on your class list, though. The first that comes to mind is the Apprentice feat (no, not the precocious one) that iirc adds two skills of your choice to your class list.

Human Paragon also works, although that costs you a caster level, and from your post it appears your character isn't human.

Depending on your starting level, briefly prestige classing to Ruathar may be an alternative.

Tempest Fennac
2008-05-05, 08:23 AM
What exactly do Ruathars do, and where can they be found?

RTGoodman
2008-05-05, 08:34 AM
Ruathar, I believe, is the PrC from Races of the Wild that makes you an "elf-friend." I can't say much more, as I'm AFB.


However, I assume (since you're using the Kobold domain) that you're going to be a Kobold. Kurald's idea of using racial paragon classes still works in that case - the Kobold Paragon (found near the bottom of the page here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060127a)) will lose you three caster levels, but you could probably talk to your DM about houseruling the last two levels giving an increase to Cleric casting if you have the Kobold domain. Either way, it gives you MS as a class skill for three levels, at least, plus some other abilities (including 4+Int skill points, +2 Cha, no light sensitivity, and better darkvision).

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-05-05, 08:41 AM
There's a few other ways to get them on your class list, though. The first that comes to mind is the Apprentice feat (no, not the precocious one) that iirc adds two skills of your choice to your class list.Where is this from?

Kurald Galain
2008-05-05, 08:48 AM
Kurald's idea of using racial paragon classes still works in that case - the Kobold Paragon (found near the bottom of the page here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060127a)) will lose you three caster levels
You could also just take a single level in it, which gives you the skill cap for class skills (but still the cost for crossclassing, of course).


Where is this from?
DMG2.

Renx
2008-05-05, 08:51 AM
If you want to use a feat for it, Able Learner is probably the easiest. way.

Tempest Fennac
2008-05-05, 08:54 AM
Thanks for the ad vice (I'd say taking the Apprentice feat is the best option). I'm not actually making this sort of character at the minute, but I was considering building a CC Kobold with Rogue-type abilities using a Kobold variant which I came up with: -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex and Cha, 40 ft. Movement, Darkvision 60' and +2 to all Search, Mining and Trapmaking checks. Just thinking about the idea of making changes to the Kobold Paragon class: would adding MS to the Trickery Domain at the expense of Disguise (and possibly Bluff) be too unbalancing in any way? how does Able Learner work?

EDIT: I just found Able Learner on Crystal Keep. That would work well, but it can't be used by a Kobold.

Chronos
2008-05-05, 04:13 PM
It should also be noted that clerics get the Silence spell. It's not as good as Sculpt Sound, since it affects an entire area, and a guard that gets included in the area might notice the sudden lack of background noise. Still, there are ways to partly mitigate that, and unlike Invisibility, there's no chance to bypass it just using skills.

Triaxx
2008-05-05, 05:19 PM
You could try talking the DM into a house rule: Cross-Class Skill's for which Skill Focus is taken become Class Skills. I think a lost feat is worth classing it up.

Keld Denar
2008-05-05, 05:24 PM
Along that line Chronos, it wouldn't be hard to take Sculpt Spell as a feat (not bad for clerics) and cast a Sculpted Silence in the shape of 4 10' cubes stacked on top of each other (so, 10'x10'x40'high). This would give you a much smaller affected area. Put it on a small rock or coin so you can pocket it (blocks line of effect) when you need to cast.

Sculpt requires another metamagic feat as a prereq, but most clerics take Extend anyway, so that's not a huge investment.

Eldariel
2008-05-05, 05:55 PM
Ruathar is really the best option, costing you nothing you wouldn't normally have, having medium BAB, few great abilities and full casting. You can enter level 6, so it's not that late even. 4+Int skills helps too. Of course, it assumes you're an Elf-friend, so you'd be stuck a Kobold grown amidst Elves and there's a whole ton of roleplaying fluff attached, but it works.

Over at the Character Optimization Boards, there was a thread where a party of 4 Clerics fulfilling all the traditional character roles was created. One of them was a Rogue Cleric, which sounds exactly like what you're trying here.

I'll edit a link to this post as soon as I find it. Basically though, it used Cloistered Cleric with Trickery and Kobold-domains and entered Ruathar and few other classes for full class skills.

EDIT: This is the thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=976580
The final solution is a bit different, but you may want to look up for the build incorporating Ruathar and Earth Dreamer; that makes for a fine skillmonkey Cleric. Ultimately, it came down to this:


Rogue-Cleric
4th level = 4 feats (kobold) : Dragonwrought, Heretic of Faith (PoF), SF: Conjuration, Augment Summoning.

Beyond:
6th: Earth Sense (Earth Dreamer prereq)
9th: Sumon Elemental Reserve Feat (for traps, scouting, baiting enemies etc.)
12th: SF: Knowledge (Religion) divine oracle feat prereq.

Tequila Sunrise
2008-05-05, 06:05 PM
would adding MS to the Trickery Domain at the expense of Disguise (and possibly Bluff) be too unbalancing in any way?

This is what I was going to suggest because really, it's just retarded to only get one half of the "stealth skill duo" from the Trickery domain. I'm assuming you're a player so I suggest just asking your DM to add MS to the Trickery domain, or trade it for Disguise or Bluff. It's stuff like this that just goes to show how much crack the designers use.

TS

Tempest Fennac
2008-05-06, 01:55 AM
Thanks for all of the feedback. I was thinking about this yesterday, and I decided that taking the Apprentice feat to get Opn Lock and MS as class skills while taking the Kobold and Trickery Domains would be my best option (asuming I'm using a 32 Point Buy, which I like using anyway, I'd have a +2 Int mod, so I'd be able to keep Move Silently, Open Lock, Disable Device, Search, Hide and Bluff maxed out while dividing the other points between Consentration and the more important Knowledge skills (and possibly Disguise)).
Ruathar sounds like a good PrC, but it wouldn't make much sense with my character concept (my idea was for him to be a LN character who uses his spellcasting and stealth skills to work against Kobold's racial enermies). Is it possible to shape a Silence spell so that it only affects the floor and a few inches above it, and does using Sculpt Spell need a higher level spell slot? (It would stop your feet from making a noise without interfering with spels with Verbal Componants if you needed to cast one in a hurry).
Looking at that thread Arcane Diciple would be a good choice for the Cleric/Wizard (page 23 of http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf ). Also, is my Kobold Variant balanced or is it overpowered? (-2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex and Cha, 40 ft. Movement, Darkvision 60' and +2 to all Search, Mining and Trapmaking checks.)

Chronos
2008-05-06, 12:57 PM
My preferred method for mitigating a Silence spell is to cast it on the end of a 14 foot rope, which you then drag behind you. If you need to cast something, drop the rope, five-foot-step out of the area, and then cast.