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littlebottom
2008-05-05, 06:28 PM
i recently had this argument with friends and decided to see what you all say, well here are my top 3 to get things started

1st: sephiroth ( FF7 )
2nd: scar (fma)
3rd: predator (from the first movie and i know his not technacly a guy but any one who skins their victims, takes their skulls as trophys then uses a bomb to kill as much more as it can as it dies... deserves to pass as a bad-guy)

so what do you think of these or do you have your own list of bad-guys?

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 06:36 PM
i recently had this argument with friends and decided to see what you all say, well here are my top 3 to get things started

1st: sephiroth ( FF7 )
2nd: scar (fma)
3rd: predator (from the first movie and i know his not technacly a guy but any one who skins their victims, takes their skulls as trophys then uses a bomb to kill as much more as it can as it dies... deserves to pass as a bad-guy)

so what do you think of these or do you have your own list of bad-guys?

Ug, Seph was an awful villain. Scar was great however


hmmm

Anime

1) Tucker
2) Shisho
3) Fuhrer
4) Kimblee
5) Scar
Does Light count?
Video games
1) Master Lee
2) Kefka
3) Arthas
4) Illiden
4) Irenecus

I need to think about film
from
EE

BRC
2008-05-05, 06:39 PM
Lesee:
Video Games: (not sure of the order)
Mengsk, Kerrigan. The Lich King.
Film:
GoldFinger (Just because of one line)
Kaiser Soze.

LBO
2008-05-05, 06:49 PM
Night Haunter.

The Necroswanso
2008-05-05, 08:00 PM
Sephiroth is seriously less then or equal to the worst villain ever.
He truly is nothing more than Fabio's less attractive brother out to steal his inheritence.

Best villain ever would have to be Andrew Ryan. A man who commits suicide just to prove a now irrefutable point is always the epitomy of evil.

Seraph
2008-05-05, 08:50 PM
i recently had this argument with friends and decided to see what you all say, well here are my top 3 to get things started

1st: sephiroth ( FF7 )



you will not live to see morning.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 09:14 PM
I love how everybody hates Seph. Not that it isn't deserved
I like Scar however
from
EE

Tengu
2008-05-05, 09:54 PM
I don't hate Sephiroth. I think he's a decent villain, although possessing lots of annoying fanboys and fangirls who overestimate him. Kefka is much better - one of the few villains whom you really, really want to see dead.

Scar is more of an anti-hero than a villain, I think.

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-05, 09:58 PM
Darth Vader (from the original Trilogy) usually ranks as the #1 villain of all time.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:04 PM
I don't hate Sephiroth. I think he's a decent villain, although possessing lots of annoying fanboys and fangirls who overestimate him. Kefka is much better - one of the few villains whom you really, really want to see dead.

Scar is more of an anti-hero than a villain, I think.

1) Seph was a lame villain i think
2) Yeah, remember link vs. Seph. Oh the pain
3) kefka was amazing in that he actually had to work for his position as big bad
4)Meh, Scar seems like a villain in the manga, he is a ruthless killer
from
EE

Haruki-kun
2008-05-05, 10:06 PM
Sephiroth - FFVII

Light Yagami (The Main Character can be the bad guy, too.) - DeathNote

The Kingdom Hearts Bad guy:
Xehanorth

FullMetal Alchemist:
Dante

The Emperor -Star Wars (I mean, come on.)

Voldemort and Sauron, of course (if books count).

Fei-Wong Reed - xxxHOLiC/Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle

And everyone hating Sephiroth:
I'm sorry, but since when does an absolute hate for all humanity and a desire to destroy the entire planet make anyone a bad villain? :smallconfused:

Still, the best villain ever, is:
AbsolutelyMost defnitelyThe Demon Roaches :roach:

Tengu
2008-05-05, 10:07 PM
I disagree with Vader. He is a good villain and villains these days wouldn't be as they are without his inspiration, but he's nowhere near the "best". Vader is the unimaginative answer, just like Tetris is the unimaginative answer to "what is the best computer game?" - being classic and influential isn't the same as best.

I still like him.



4)Meh, Scar seems like a villain in the manga, he is a ruthless killer
from
EE

Actually, Scar strikes me as even less of a villain in the manga, although of course we do not know everything about his past. He just doesn't even blink when doing what has to be done.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:09 PM
Sephiroth - FFVII
Light Yagami (The Main Character can be the bad guy, too.) - DeathNote

The Kingdom Hearts Bad guy:
Xehanorth

FullMetal Alchemist:
Dante

The Emperor -Star Wars (I mean, come on.)

Voldemort and Sauron, of course (if books count).

Fei-Wong Reed - xxxHOLiC/Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle

1) Seph was bad, i'm sorry
2) I'll give you the rest of them
3) FOR SAURON

Dante was pretty good, but i think Tucker, Kimblee, Father, Pride/wrath (manga wrath) and Archer were better. Also who can forget envy


I'm totally seconding light
from
EE

Haruki-kun
2008-05-05, 10:11 PM
Oh, yes. Envy was a good villain too.

Actually, as far as FMA and Kingdom Hearts go, I think Both, the Homunculi and Organization XIII made pretty good villains.

Tengu
2008-05-05, 10:11 PM
Show me one thing that was cool about Archer. One will do. He was a very meh villain to me.

Also, the moment someone says "anime Wrath", I'm getting my d4s ready (and you know what I use them for) - subconscious alchemy is only his secondary power, his primary one is being the most annoying creature in the 'verse.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:13 PM
Oh, yes. Envy was a good villain too.

Actually, as far as FMA and Kingdom Hearts go, I think Both, the Homunculi and Organization XIII made pretty good villains.

I hated Kingdom Hearts, but hte homunculi was great

Archer was actually a very nice direct reference to some of the Nazi figures. He reminded me of Georbols

however i admit he needed more screen time and robot archer wasn't great

But i like the total corruption he used
from
EE

Edit

I meant manga Wrath. Anime wrath was so annoying, i love how envy brutally beat him

mikeloop86
2008-05-05, 10:13 PM
The Operative/Serenity
Darkness/Legend
Colonel Volgin/Metal Gear Solid 3



/topic

Archpaladin Zousha
2008-05-05, 10:18 PM
I have to second Master Li. That Magnificent Bastard had to be one of the most amazing villains I'd ever encountered in a video game, in that he was so subtle, when compared to someone like Baldur's Gate's Sarevok.

I also have to second Palpatine. He singlehandedly instated a reign of tyranny that changed the face of the galaxy for all time, and looked cool while doing it. Darth Vader I end up pitying more than admiring. Palpatine was the one holding Vader's leash, and when all is said and done Vader was little more than a glorified thug. Notice that Tarkin was placed in charge of the Death Star, and not Vader himself. Throughout his time with the Empire Vader was always a follower, not a leader. Sure he commanded the fear of his underlings, but he never openly challenged the Emperor until the very last second, and even then it took watching his son get tortured to get him to snap out of it.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:20 PM
I have to second Master Li. That Magnificent Bastard had to be one of the most amazing villains I'd ever encountered in a video game, in that he was so subtle, when compared to someone like Baldur's Gate's Sarevok.

Thanks you, I love the fact that you have so many chances to redeem him and he just doesn't care. And taht you can surrender



I also have to second Palpatine. He singlehandedly instated a reign of tyranny that changed the face of the galaxy for all time, and looked cool while doing it. Darth Vader I end up pitying more than admiring. Palpatine was the one holding Vader's leash, and when all is said and done Vader was little more than a glorified thug. Notice that Tarkin was placed in charge of the Death Star, and not Vader himself. Throughout his time with the Empire Vader was always a follower, not a leader. Sure he commanded the fear of his underlings, but he never openly challenged the Emperor until the very last second, and even then it took watching his son get tortured to get him to snap out of it.

I like Tarkin a lot, i will have to back you on this one
from
EE

Tengu
2008-05-05, 10:24 PM
While we're talking about Star Wars, why didn't anyone mention Thrawn yet?

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:25 PM
While we're talking about Star Wars, why didn't anyone mention Thrawn yet?

................i don't deserve to be a star wars fan
from
EE

Tengu
2008-05-05, 10:28 PM
You don't. Give me your badge. And the Jar-Jar-faced punching bag. You might get them back if you behave. And if Rutee forgives you.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:30 PM
You don't. Give up the badge. And the Jar-Jar-faced punching bag. You might get them back if you behave. And if Rutee forgives you.

But but, but..........the punching bag. I've broken 8 hands (none of which were my own) on it. Why

And why Rutee? Please don't condem me to this fate Rutee, we've always been friends, right?
from
EE

Mewtarthio
2008-05-05, 10:33 PM
I have to second Master Li. That Magnificent Bastard had to be one of the most amazing villains I'd ever encountered in a video game, in that he was so subtle, when compared to someone like Baldur's Gate's Sarevok.

He also gets bonus points for one of the best betrayal scenes ever. No taunts. No monologues. No meaningless delays. He just walks up to you right when it seems you've won, congratulates you on your victory, and kills you in one blow while your guard is down. Now that is how you backstab someone.

I also like the twist on the usual motivations. Yeah, sure his brother killed his daughter, and it looks like he's after revenge, but if you find out that his daughter is alive and tell him, then he just tells you that he doesn't really care.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:34 PM
He also gets bonus points for one of the best betrayal scenes ever. No taunts. No monologues. No meaningless delays. He just walks up to you right when it seems you've won, congratulates you on your victory, and kills you in one blow while your guard is down. Now that is how you backstab someone.


And planning a perfect flaw 20 years ahead of time


I also like the twist on the usual motivations. Yeah, sure his brother killed his daughter, and it looks like he's after revenge, but if you find out that his daughter is alive and tell him, then he just tells you that he doesn't really care.

And what i find is taht he is a follower of the open palm, not close fist. Perspective
from
EE

Anteros
2008-05-05, 10:34 PM
What is this Master Lee from? I can't place him, and it sounds like a good game.

EvilElitest
2008-05-05, 10:35 PM
What is this Master Lee from? I can't place him, and it sounds like a good game.

Jade Empire, Bioware, great game, like mass effect
from
EE

Anteros
2008-05-05, 10:37 PM
Ah. I had blown it off as a Dynasty Warriors clone. (As if there are not enough of those) and ignored it. I'll check it out, thanks.

Archpaladin Zousha
2008-05-05, 10:37 PM
To be fair though, he taunts you a fair number of times near the end, like with the battle for Death's Hand:

"Come then, pit your will against mine! Let us see who is truly the greater!"

The monologue before the final battle:

"My empire will be ordered, obedient and neither gods nor ghosts shall plague it!"

The dream sequence:

"If it were'nt for you, they would still be alive."

And so on.

Mewtarthio
2008-05-05, 10:43 PM
To be fair though, he taunts you a fair number of times near the end,

Yes, but at that point subtlety is useless. You already know he's evil, so he might as well try to mess with your head a little.

Archpaladin Zousha
2008-05-05, 10:50 PM
True. And he does manage to pull it off without sounding like a total ham.

cnsvnc
2008-05-05, 11:30 PM
Transcendent One/don't watch anime/Party Member O'Brien.

TTO: Sure he's not the worst offender, but he's by far the coolest concept for an antagonist if there ever was one.

Party Member O'Brien: Merely being the tip of the Big Brother is enough.

Querzis
2008-05-06, 12:44 AM
The Lich King have to be my favorite bad-guy. Arthas and Ner'zhul alone were already great villain but together? They are the best bad guy ever. Its too bad Blizzard is probably going to kill him (or should I say them?) in that stupid WoW like they already killed Illidan and Kael.

Wesker from the Resident evil series is also a great one. That guy is just so freaking badass. A professional emotionless sociopath that become stronger even when he lose? Thats just great!

I always liked Buggy from One Piece. You cant escape his madness!

Eggman is, unfortunately, more a comic relief then anything else now. But back when it was Sega instead of Sonic Team that made the Sonic games, he was my favorite villain. Guess I just like mad scientist.

Good old Ganondorf cant be killed...ok so actually, he was in Wind Waker and any new Zelda games with Ganon in it would just be before Wind Waker in the timeline (at least I think, I saw so much argument on this and so much contradictory quote form Nintendo that I just dont know anymore). But even in death he was great, I shed a tear at his famous last words.

Legato from Trigun. A villain that force the hero to kill him just to torture and torment him? Priceless.

Light from Death note and Lelouch from Code geass are at the same time the best and the worse villain ever. Why? Because if they had been antagonist, I would have loved to hate those two magnificient bastard but I just really hate (not 'love to hate', just hate) Villain protagonist and how everything seems to go so well for them, mostly because of dumb luck.

Shademan
2008-05-06, 12:52 AM
you all forget the meanes of them all!
the most vile and scary...


The Insidious Dr. Fu Manchu

poleboy
2008-05-06, 05:19 AM
I second Master Li from JE. He steered clear of most of the stereotype pitfalls, and genuinely believes that he is doing the right thing.
That reminds me of another one actually. He's only a minor character and I'm not sure you actually ever get to fight him, but one of the campaigns in Heroes of Might & Magic IV has an antagonist called the Eternal King or something, who plans to enforce world peace by controlling the minds of everyone. Kinda similar in that good intentions eventually motivates evil deeds.

I think Sephiroth was an okay villain, he certainly does some horrible things and he's kinda screwed up but overall he lacks depth.

Kefka was mentioned, and while I think he's a bit more wacky and slapstick-ey than he has to be, he's generally just a real jerk whom you want to get what's coming to him. I still think he suffers from the same flaws as Sephiroth and their backgrounds are somewhat similar, with similar outcomes.

Pierrot Le Fou from Cowboy Bebop is creepy.

Palpatine was generally cool, but I think they ruined it in the last (third) movie by forcing him into being a psycho instead of simply being manipulative. It's like all his scheming led up to the point where he could finally go nuts and toss around the senate like the Mighty Hulk or something. Yay. Way to ruin a great character.

In general, I prefer villains who see themselves as the hero. Those who are evil "just because" are bland and uninteresting at best.

Fri
2008-05-06, 06:17 AM
My friend swear by his life that the best bad guys ever in video game, that is the best and the baddest all at once, is Suikoden 2 big bad, Luca Blight. And by his argumentation, I'm inclined to agree (though, not perfectly agree).

First, he's evil badass normal. No special superpower whatsoever, just a good swordman and military commander. But damn good at those. His death scene is awesome.


For our hero (and us the player), he's really evil! He slaughtered a village, make people begging for their life, squealing like a pig, and then KILL him. And then he let some people escape, just so they can tell his awesomeness to everyone else.

Then, he's not stupid. He's a magnificent bastard.

He's really a 'villain.' Not a pretty haired confused guy like sephiroth. No evil overlord stupidity either. He'll kill, he'll maim, and he had good reason (For him) to do that.


That's his main argument, I guess. He's evil, he's badass, he's normal (compared to the heroes that have true runes) and his death scene is awesome. That friend hate sephiroth, because his lacking of evilness, and sense.

EvilDMMk3
2008-05-06, 06:55 AM
I am going to go ahead and count the Hogfather TV movie as a movie so I can say:

The Auditors of Reality.

I would use the same logic to say The Master but I have repressed the Doctor Who TV movie.

Also there is something about how utterly daft and cliche he is that make Yuri from RA2 quite good.

Gorbash Kazdar
2008-05-06, 07:43 AM
If we could include comics, it would be Dr. Doom. But since its film, anime, or games...

I'd have to put it as a tie between Darth Vader, the favorite, and SHODAN from System Shock, the darkhorse.

Darth Vader you know the story on.
http://www.gorbashkazdar.com/darthvader.gif

SHODAN is the insane AI from System Shock (BioShock is essentially a game-play sequel with a different setting). She is one of the creepiest villains I've seen, as her AI nature makes her omnipresent and she delights in ridiculing you. She's remarkably well done - one of the only video game characters who can really get under your skin in a good way, IMHO.

I was considering GlaDOS, but SHODAN does what GlaDOS does without the silliness, about 100x more competence, and with an army of killer robots and cyborgs at her disposal.

Drascin
2008-05-06, 08:04 AM
I was considering GlaDOS, but SHODAN does what GlaDOS does without the silliness, about 100x more competence, and with an army of killer robots and cyborgs at her disposal.

Half the point of GLaDOS, however, is the silliness, as the whole thing of the character is that she's starking mad and prey to directly contradicting directives.

But I have to admit, you've interested me in that game. System Shock, you say?

Morty
2008-05-06, 08:15 AM
Sarevok from BG1 is far from being the best villain ever, but he gets a honorable mention for being BBEG in a D&D-based game who isn't a magic-user.

Blayze
2008-05-06, 08:32 AM
System Shock, you say?

"Look at you, Hacker. A pathetic creature of flesh and bone, running through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?"


And what i find is taht he is a follower of the open palm, not close fist.

It's a pity the alignment system fell flat on its face when it came to the protagonist. Right at the beginning of the game, Smiling Mountain mentioned that "Open Palm" was not "Good" and "Closed Fist" was not "Evil". Sadly, from there on everything went by the book.

Hell, you can't even *finish* the game as Closed Fist without being a complete bastard. Not even a Magnificent one, just a complete one.

Archpaladin Zousha
2008-05-06, 09:05 AM
Palpatine was generally cool, but I think they ruined it in the last (third) movie by forcing him into being a psycho instead of simply being manipulative. It's like all his scheming led up to the point where he could finally go nuts and toss around the senate like the Mighty Hulk or something. Yay. Way to ruin a great character.

But the Senate wasn't in session. And besides, he was fighting Yoda, who had been established in the second movie as one of the most skilled Jedi duelists ever. Palpatine really didn't go psycho. He used the terrain to his advantage. It's no more psycho than that thing coming loose from the wall in Luke and Vader's fight in the carbon freezing chamber, or Vader cutting the catwalk supports during the fight on the Death Star, or Dooku dropping that. . .whatever it was on Anakin and Obi-Wan to distract Yoda.

The only reason Palpatine seemed psycho was because of his own hubris. He honestly believed that he could take Yoda (and why wouldn't he? He'd just engineered the fall of one of the Republic's greatest heroes, united the galaxy under his rule, and crushed all opposition to it, Jedi or Sepratist). And then he actually did beat Yoda (he just didn't kill him).

Archpaladin Zousha
2008-05-06, 09:07 AM
But I have to admit, you've interested me in that game. System Shock, you say?

It's a pretty old game. If you want something more up to date, then definately go for System Shock 2. It's one of the scariest FPS's out there, and it shows SHODAN in all her horrifying glory!:smalleek:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-06, 09:20 AM
Someone mentioned Sarevok. PSHAW! If I had to pick THE game villain, it would be Joneleth "Jon" Irenicus, or The Trascendent One. The first one is an epic mage, is voiced by David Warner, and almost destroyed an elf empire, and the second one is just the endgame baddie of Planescape Torment.


As for anime...Hmm...toughie. There's too many, so I abstain.

As for film...do antivillains and villain protagonists count? If so, the Godfather's come out on top, if not, it could be Vader.

poleboy
2008-05-06, 09:54 AM
But the Senate wasn't in session. And besides, he was fighting Yoda, who had been established in the second movie as one of the most skilled Jedi duelists ever. Palpatine really didn't go psycho. He used the terrain to his advantage. It's no more psycho than that thing coming loose from the wall in Luke and Vader's fight in the carbon freezing chamber, or Vader cutting the catwalk supports during the fight on the Death Star, or Dooku dropping that. . .whatever it was on Anakin and Obi-Wan to distract Yoda.

The only reason Palpatine seemed psycho was because of his own hubris. He honestly believed that he could take Yoda (and why wouldn't he? He'd just engineered the fall of one of the Republic's greatest heroes, united the galaxy under his rule, and crushed all opposition to it, Jedi or Sepratist). And then he actually did beat Yoda (he just didn't kill him).

If there was a pun there at the start I think I missed it? It sounded like one.

Anyway, my beef with Palpatine is not so much that he tosses the senate around. It was an okay scene, and not too over-the-top in the movie's universe. What I dislike is the way that he goes from puppetmaster to raving lunatic in a matter of seconds. More specifically:

When Anakin "disarms" (hur hur) Mace Windu and Palpatine starts with the force lightning trick

It's just so out of character compared to how he is pictured in pretty much every other scene before this. Even in the old movies he remains calm and detached all the time. It was probably done for dramatic effect but it's way over the top. Compare to Vader's last line in Ep. III. I couldn't help but laugh at that.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-06, 10:04 AM
Considering he has just been (I think) torched almost to death by his own trick, I'd also be understandably pissed off.

Haruki-kun
2008-05-06, 11:02 AM
I suddenly thought of Disney Villains. Most of them are way too Comic Relief to be considered real villains, but I think Disney does have two villains worth mentioning:

1) The Queen from Snow White

2) Maleficent.

black dragoon
2008-05-06, 12:36 PM
Anime: Colnol Dewey from Eureka Seven. A true magnficent bastard. Nothing like turning an entire species against something.
Videogames: hrmm...The reapers from mass effect primarily the Reaper we see. I mean c'mon they orchestrate the cyclic fall of species just for the sake of harvesting them!
Movies: Antother toughy I really am going to have to nominate Palpatine and Sauron here.

H. Zee
2008-05-06, 01:18 PM
Game:

Sarevok. Baldur's Gate. I like the guy because, not despite, he's so uncomplicated. "Grargh, I'm a big evil dude in spiky armour who wants to start a war." Win. Also, he has an awesome name, an awesome redemption storyline in the third game, and he is just so badass in that opening movie.

Irenicus. Baldur's Gate 2. 'Nuff said. Bad. Ass. The last movie (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pf9kleGOupc) you see him in is just epic.

Vhailor, when you play as an evil bastard in Planescape: Torment. When he strides purposefully down that hallway towards you swinging his axe with his badass theme song playing... (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4iXgW3GU7jg&feature=related) Sent shivers up my spine. I guess I'm just a sucker for big guys in spiky armour.

Film:

Gotta be some love for Hannibal Lecter. Scared the bejeezus out of me.

Anime:

Aizen. Bleach. Hoo boy. Also, Zaraki Kenpachi, when he still fulfilled the role of villain.

I wish we could mention villains from books. I have so many I love to hate. Many of them from A Song of Ice and Fire - Biter, Rorge, Joffrey, Ser Gregor Clegane... All right evil bastards.

Gorbash
2008-05-06, 02:46 PM
Sarevok. Baldur's Gate. I like the guy because, not despite, he's so uncomplicated. "Grargh, I'm a big evil dude in spiky armour who wants to start a war." Win. Also, he has an awesome name, an awesome redemption storyline in the third game, and he is just so badass in that opening movie.

Not to mention one of the coolest voices in all of video games. And some of his lines are simply grand. For example, when he dies, he says: I... I refuse!!!
Or the funny one:
Imoen: So... Sarevok. You've had an itty-bitty piece of my soul in there for quite a while now. What's it been like?
Sarevok: Well, other than a slight obsession with my weight and the resurgence of a few pimples, it's been simply grand.

But Irenicus has better background, IMHO and all of his speeches are made of pure awesomeness.
I cannot be cagged.
I cannot be cotrolled.
Understand this as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools.


and the second one is just the endgame baddie of Planescape Torment

Is there a better Villain than your own mortality?

One of the better developed villains not mentioned in this topic is most certainly, Pe Ell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe_Ell), from Heritage of Shannara series.

Carcer from Terry Pratchett's Night Watch.

Azriim from Erevis Cale Trilogy.

I'll think of some others soon...

GolemsVoice
2008-05-06, 03:18 PM
Carcer is indeed a cool villain. Terry Prattchet really makes him hateable. I am one that tends to not become very drawn into books/films/videogames, but I really wished Carcer dead, and not in a pleasurable way.

And I also second SHODAN. Although I only witnessed her in System Shock 2, I must say she really is frightening, and the game is one of the few games that managed to scare me. Her cold madness is contradicted by XERXES random babbling about presents to buy, or other announcements out of context.

Gorbash
2008-05-06, 03:24 PM
Oh, and Cnaiur urs Skiotha, Most Violent of All Men. The man with the coolest title ever.

EvilElitest
2008-05-06, 10:30 PM
I second both BB villains

As for Disney, the most scary by far was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS3weMlxLA


from
EE

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-07, 10:18 AM
I second Legato. That guy was merciless and pure evil.

And Kefka was a way better villain than Sephiroth. Sure, Seph killed one of your party members, but other than trying to destroy the world (so cliche) he didn't do much else. Whereas Kefka took every opportunity to be an underhanded, evil bastard. He had no value for people's lives, he betrayed people left and right, he messed with the PCs' heads, and he used the players to help achieve his own goals more than once. Also, he's like the only Final Fantasy villain to successfully destroy the world (mostly). You simply can't get much better than that.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this yet: Megatron (from the original Transformers). He's got that really stylishly evil kind of attitude. Also, Megatron/Galvatron and Starscream from Transformers: Cybertron. Starscream mainly just because it was about time he was able to successfully betray Megatron (and live).

black dragoon
2008-05-07, 12:18 PM
Woot! Transformers I knew I forgot a show:smallbiggrin: and finally Kefka rings bells. Has anyone nominated Seymor yet from FFX?

poleboy
2008-05-07, 01:30 PM
And Kefka was a way better villain than Sephiroth. Sure, Seph killed one of your party members, but other than trying to destroy the world (so cliche) he didn't do much else. Whereas Kefka took every opportunity to be an underhanded, evil bastard. He had no value for people's lives, he betrayed people left and right, he messed with the PCs' heads, and he used the players to help achieve his own goals more than once. Also, he's like the only Final Fantasy villain to successfully destroy the world (mostly). You simply can't get much better than that.

I'll certainly agree that he is the best FF villain by far. Possibly one of the best in any video game. Maybe I'm just being overly critical.

Kato
2008-05-07, 01:49 PM
Okay, first of the argument about Seph. He's overrated, sure. Mostly because the FF geeks crying after Aerith and the fangirls crying 'poor, misinterpreted Sephi, he was so handsome!!!' Still, he's not that bad. He was about to crush the world. He was - if you went straight through the game - a more than decent enemy. He manipulated your party for the first half of the game and had nearly god like powers. (Or so he thought) Kefka on the opposite was a mad man... s sadist... a freak... He was like... anti-Sephi. Especially because even though claiming to possess a god's power, he was not really a match, if you gathered at least 9-12 members of your party before entering his castle... He was more a clown... a crazy, evil, kinda scary clown, but still a clown. (To me at least)

That put aside, I'm always bad at deciding on 'the best ***' stuff. There is like... dunno. I could hardly decide on the best villain in the FF series. Or of the Gundam timeline. *shrug*
So, come on? Who's better? Seymour trying to stop all the suffering by killing everybody? Artemisia trying to be the only thing in time and space? Vayne fighting the god's and killing his family? Damn, whoever could make up his mind among even these?
Gundam is like... even harder. What's the best move? Crushing asteroids unto earth and being by far the best (most pedophilic) pilot in the universe? Blasting big chunks out of earth to make everyone fight you instead of one another (and being again the best pilot with pedophilic interests?) Sending his own army soldier after soldier into battle to die at the hero's hand , just because it's more honor than just nuking the enemy from orbit? Training kid soldiers, making them kill their parents, killing people with their own, recently stolen Mechas and then shooting at their sister?

Though, there are soooooooo many others out there. Okay, not so much guys as Sauron or some comic guys... most are just dumb.
Though, Palpatine has my respect for almost entirely wiping out the Jedi - though it was kinda dumb on their side... Also some Goa'Ulds of Stargate aren't too bad... still they got their near eternal lives as gods pissed of by 4 mere humans with inferior technology. Just dumb.

OK, enough evil words... I just wanna say... there are so many guys out there, which all did evil things, crushed innocent lives, tricked the heroes, killed the love interests, had super powers and superior intelligence... but hardly one survived the contact with the good guys... too bad.

Wait, I just recall one being never defeated by the good guys! The players of 'Dungeon Keeper' (oh sweet, youth... how often did I crush the good guys... all those Sylph wings i ripped out, hehe.. Or at least which were burnt by my fire)
Yeah, the only really bad guys were we... the ones playing the evil role playing party and stuff... the ones crushing the mere evil, trying to take the world, which one day shall be ours! And so, hail to all the developers of the really good games. The one making us the evil ones ^^

Mewtarthio
2008-05-07, 01:53 PM
As for Disney, the most scary by far was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS3weMlxLA

You know, I never really appreciated that movie as a child. I was only about nine years old when it came out, so when I saw that particular scene, I thought Frollo was literally summoning demons out of hell to kill Esmeralda. You have to understand, that's really scary for a kid raised in a conservative Christian family.

Of course, I can now see that he's probably the only Disney villain to be motivated by lust, with hypocrisy as his major vice. Quite "mature," as far as Disney villains go. Maybe I should rent that movie and watch it again.

EvilElitest
2008-05-07, 02:14 PM
It's a pity the alignment system fell flat on its face when it came to the protagonist. Right at the beginning of the game, Smiling Mountain mentioned that "Open Palm" was not "Good" and "Closed Fist" was not "Evil". Sadly, from there on everything went by the book.
Actually, i have to disagree. most of the closed first actions may seem cruel but from a somewhat Chinese or at least "Strong govern over the weak" ideal are quite justified. They seem to be simply the smart thing to do


Hell, you can't even *finish* the game as Closed Fist without being a complete bastard. Not even a Magnificent one, just a complete one.

Actually, considering Lee's plan is to create the perfect lawful society with everything fitting into their proper place. Which is pretty much what your guy does, peace through dicatorship


You know, I never really appreciated that movie as a child. I was only about nine years old when it came out, so when I saw that particular scene, I thought Frollo was literally summoning demons out of hell to kill Esmeralda. You have to understand, that's really scary for a kid raised in a conservative Christian family.

I can imagine, it was rather hard to grasp

When i was 6 watching the movie, i though that he loved her so much that he sold his soul to the devil



Of course, I can now see that he's probably the only Disney villain to be motivated by lust, with hypocrisy as his major vice. Quite "mature," as far as Disney villains go. Maybe I should rent that movie and watch it again.

I wish the rest of the film was as good
from
EE

ArtifexFelicis
2008-05-07, 02:22 PM
Shodan, from System Shock 2

The Major, from Hellsing for being silly really.

Kefka, from you know what.

The Naughty Sorceress from the Kingdom of Loathing.

GladOS, from Portal.

The guy from Watchmen, you know, that one.

John Doe, from Se7en.

Oddly enough, I can't think of many worthwhile Anime villains. I never really got into FMA, so they're out. I really just disliked the Orginization XIII enemies as villains themselves (Heartless I liked more) Ctulluo shouldn't count since he doesn't CARE. Hmmm.

The Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40k.

Possibly the piece de resistance though.

Hannibal Lector, as played by Anthony Hopkins, in Silence of the Lambs.

Tengu
2008-05-07, 03:35 PM
The Naughty Sorceress from the Kingdom of Loathing.


Er, what exactly is so good about her that gives her a place on this list?

Mewtarthio
2008-05-07, 03:35 PM
The guy from Watchmen, you know, that one.

Does that even qualify as a spoiler anymore? It's like saying "Old Yeller dies in the end."

ArtifexFelicis
2008-05-07, 03:45 PM
I mostly base this on the sheer frustration on trying to beat the crap out of her in KoL before NS13 rolled around. I like her simply because she's such an excellent top off point in the game, something so wholly insane and amusing that it makes it all worth it. Also because she's a sausage. Rather amusing it is.

I'm not taking any chances with the Watchmen though. I like to think that some people don't know about it and the 25 minutes.

Jahkaivah
2008-05-07, 05:00 PM
No one mentioned Glados in the 1st page?

As punishment, she will be mentioned in every other page.



Nah just kidding.. though it was shocking.

Blayze
2008-05-07, 05:05 PM
Actually, i have to disagree. most of the closed first actions may seem cruel but from a somewhat Chinese or at least "Strong govern over the weak" ideal are quite justified. They seem to be simply the smart thing to do

Do you remember Gao the Greater's slavers, when you encountered that girl who had been captured? You could give her a knife and tell her to stand up for herself. That was a Closed Fist action that wasn't like the others, which were almost all "I'll be evil now."

littlebottom
2008-05-07, 05:13 PM
i see theres been alot of people who dislike sephiroth as an ultimate bad guy but what people dont realise is that he [I]wasnt[I] trying to destroy the planet, he wanted to hurt it to make all the energy (the lifestream) gather in one spot where he would absorb it and gain the knowledge and power of every thing that has ever lived, becoming almost godlike, although this would more than likely destroy the world, that was just a technicality of his true plan, a man so bad that he weilded a katana twice his height (not quite but close) with one hand and with speed (yes he used two hands but he used it one handed some times too) and that requires alot of strength, maybe not super human strength but ALOT, this makes the character strike fear into his enemys without beeing super human. he also does minipulate your main character to screw over mankind etc and the character does go slightly insane although he overcomes this but if that happened to you wouldnt you think he was evil? i think alot of these things are what makes a good badguy, not so unbelievable as a person but as cruel and driven by his own disire, surely thats the basics of a good villan? im not saying that every one is wrong to doubt him as "the best" but his still up there as one of the best, come on.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-07, 05:22 PM
i see theres been alot of people who dislike sephiroth as an ultimate bad guy but what people dont realise is that he [I]wasnt[I] trying to destroy the planet, he wanted to hurt it to make all the energy (the lifestream) gather in one spot where he would absorb it and gain the knowledge and power of every thing that has ever lived, becoming almost godlike, although this would more than likely destroy the world, that was just a technicality of his true plan, a man so bad that he weilded a katana twice his height (not quite but close) with one hand and with speed (yes he used two hands but he used it one handed some times too) and that requires alot of strength, maybe not super human strength but ALOT, this makes the character strike fear into his enemys without beeing super human. he also does minipulate your main character to screw over mankind etc and the character does go slightly insane although he overcomes this but if that happened to you wouldnt you think he was evil? i think alot of these things are what makes a good badguy, not so unbelievable as a person but as cruel and driven by his own disire, surely thats the basics of a good villan? im not saying that every one is wrong to doubt him as "the best" but his still up there as one of the best, come on.

...You do realize all that nonsense was just his self-justifying villainous rambling, right?

And no, he wasn't one of the best, unless we're talking about the top 10 white haired bishies.

PS: Also, I have to say, Kefka is also not a really memorable villain. He's just TOO evil, to the point he gets one-dimensional.

Flickerdart
2008-05-07, 05:29 PM
One word: KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

I found Mephistopheles from NWN was nicely enough done, although he didn't come up much in the first two acts. Plus, he's essentially D&D's to begin with.

Does Darth Revan even count as a bad guy?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-07, 05:35 PM
Oooh, Mephistopheles. AKA: Badass Devil. Really, Asmodeus is good, but Mephistopheles is SO much more demonstrably evil and he has hellfire to boot. Maybe it's because of his CE tendencies, like Grazzt has LE tendencies.

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-07, 05:54 PM
My top 2 anime villains:

Naraku from Inuyasha, for being to most manipulative evil bastard, while at the same time being nigh indestructable. I'm SO pissed they never concluded that series (in the anime version).

Shishio from Rurouni Kenshin, for actually being stronger than Kenshin and being able to take on like all of the heroes one after another. And for having killed so many people that his sword became permanently soaked in their fats and oils, so that he could light it on fire at will.

Redpieper
2008-05-07, 06:19 PM
Best Game villain: Gotta be the Transcended One.

Best Anime villain: Legato, causing the main hero to have a mental break down? Awesome.

Best Film villain: Darth Vader before Return of the Jedi and the prequels.

Because I just have to mention Scorpius, I'll add some other genres:

Best TV series villain: Scorpius.

Best Book villain: Sauron.

Best Animation villain: Syndrome.

Gorbash
2008-05-07, 07:28 PM
and he has hellfire to boot.

I beg to differ... His domain is frozen realm of Cania. :smallbiggrin:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-07, 07:30 PM
And he still managed to craft Hellfire the substance, which is NOT affected by fire resistance, and gets any beneficial effect of fire.

Because, even as the master of the icy hell, he likes it hot.

Phase
2008-05-07, 08:07 PM
Best Animation villain: Syndrome.

Aww, Creepy!

Anyway, if mini-series count too, then General Grevious (minus Revenge of the Sith) is perhaps THE most badass cyborg ever...

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-07, 08:10 PM
Pity he was given massive Nerfbatting for the movie. Because the way he drops several Jedi masters and Padawan's truly is amazing.

"Lightsaber-chucks, yo!" Is the only thing he was missing.

Querzis
2008-05-07, 09:09 PM
Pity he was given massive Nerfbatting for the movie. Because the way he drops several Jedi masters and Padawan's truly is amazing.

No kidding, I saw him in the cartoon and I thought «man its going to take twenty jedis to kill that guy» and then Obi-wan kill him all by himself. I know hes a main character but it was still ridiculous. If they really wanted to get him killed by Obi-wan, they shoudnt have made him that strong in the cartoon.

black dragoon
2008-05-07, 09:28 PM
Yeah, HE really should have had a way better death then again the prequels always seemed a let down to me.:smallmad:

Gorbash
2008-05-08, 03:46 AM
If they really wanted to get him killed by Obi-wan, they shoudnt have made him that strong in the cartoon.

Maybe the point was showing just how badass Obi is.

poleboy
2008-05-08, 03:54 AM
Pity he was given massive Nerfbatting for the movie. Because the way he drops several Jedi masters and Padawan's truly is amazing.

"Lightsaber-chucks, yo!" Is the only thing he was missing.

Meh. I think it was all right. Technically, Obi-Wan actually lost the lightsaber duel as I recall and only won the fight using a slightly dirty trick (to a Jedi, at least). And IIRC Grievous held his own against both Obi-Wan and Anakin for at least a little while during the beginning of the movie. I think that's plenty bad-ass for a minor antagonist character.

Gorbash Kazdar
2008-05-08, 09:25 AM
Naraku is pretty minor league for an anime villain. Sure, he's manipulative, but he really doesn't seem to get much done. And given how inept Inuyasha and company tend to be, I find it hard to take him seriously.

Shishio is great, though. He's actually stronger than Kenshin - if it wasn't for the sweat gland thing, he probably would have won, since he was able to stand back up after Kenshin's strongest attack. Even putting that aside, he manipulates the main characters expertly, nearly succeeds in his plan to overthrow the Meiji government, and has his followers so enthralled they're willing to die for him. In the manga, the final scene with him is set in Hell, where he decides he's going to conquer the place. The one knock is that he's almost Mary Sue-ish in how good he is, but IMHO the fact that he's an entirely unsympathetic character keeps this in check.

Some excellent anime villains:

Light Yagami (Death Note) - Yes, he's the protagonist, but man is he one magnificent bastard. Even the creator describes him as a "very evil" person. He treats those around him as tools, and wants to become a god. Plus he's disturbingly good at long-range contingency planning. We are talking about the character behind the "just as planned" meme, after all.

Hansel and Gretel (Black Lagoon) - Probably two of the creepiest characters in any media I've seen. Warped doesn't even begin to describe them. In a series full of badasses, they manage to scare the hell out of and take on everyone in Roanpur (aka Badass City) and almost pull it off. Their origin is terrible enough that they are somewhat sympathetic, but they're still such sociopaths that they make the other characters seem almost normal (and this is a series where the main characters are pretty much deranged killers themselves). Heck, they even got their own special ED song and animation.

Gauron (Full Metal Panic!) - Another magnificent bastard, and a near unkillable one at that. He survives a sniper bullet to the head and having his mecha blow up around him multiple times. He eventually
psychologically tortures the main character, Sagara, to the point of driving him into a nearly psychopathic state. The usual methods are used - insults, attempting to assassinate the main character's girlfriend, trying to kill all of his other friends, etc., but the pièce de résistance is getting the main character to kill him. That's pretty ruthless.

Athaniar
2008-05-08, 11:09 AM
There are too many, but let's see...

Palpatine, he's the #1 bad guy. Also, Darths Malak, Maul, and Tyranus. And Tarkin, as well. And Darth Vader, if not for that whole redemption thing. Grievous could have been better. He had potential (four lightsabers!).

From Warcraft comes Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, Xavius, Kael'Thas, the Lich King (including Arthas), Kel'Thuzad, Ragnaros, Deathwing (and his children) and the Old Gods. And that's just a sample.

Sauron isn't bad, either. Too bad he was portrayed as a giant burning eye in the films. His armor in the prologue was badass, though. And Lee makes a great Saruman! And the witch-king is also a good (figuratively speaking) villain, come to think of it.

Ganon(dorf) from the Zelda series.

Voldemort from Harry Potter.

Of course, Xykon (you know who, I hope).

I don't watch much anime, but what I've seen of Orochimaru is kinda scary.

And that's all I can come up with for now. Perhaps more later.

KillianHawkeye
2008-05-08, 06:44 PM
No kidding, I saw him in the cartoon and I thought «man its going to take twenty jedis to kill that guy» and then Obi-wan kill him all by himself. I know hes a main character but it was still ridiculous. If they really wanted to get him killed by Obi-wan, they shoudnt have made him that strong in the cartoon.

Oh come on, this is only because the guys who made the cartoons made ALL the characters WAY overpowered just so it would be cooler and more people would watch it. Remember that Mace Windu single-handedly flew through the air and destroyed that gigantic sand-stomping ship-a-ma-jig along with about a metric ton of battle droids. Whereas in Attack of the Clones (made BEFORE the cartoon) he has a little trouble pulling HIS LIGHTSABER off the ground from 15 feet away.

TheGreatPumpkin
2008-05-09, 06:52 AM
Bill.

"I'm a killer. A murdering bastard, you know that. And there are consequences to breaking the heart of a murdering bastard. "