The Klingon Empire Vs The Sontaran Empire

[Evil DM Mark3]

Ok ok, it is a Vs thread, but I really want people's opinions on this one.

Just post DS9 era Klingons under Martok encounter the expanding Sontaran Empire from Doctor Who, around the time of The Poison Sky. War is inevitable, Sontarans do not negotiate, Klingons would have very little desire to negotiate and nothing unites like a good old fashioned war.

My observations:

Klingon ship design is probably superior in several areas, shields and cloak mostly. On the other hand invasion vessels from the Sontaran Battle fleet seem to have planet sterilising level weapons.

I have no doubts whatsoever as to which side has the better close combat warriors, Sontarans have never displayed melee prowess. However Sontarans clearly have the numbers. In order to keep a level of sanity we will assume that they are still at war with the Rutans and as such cannot simply draw all their troops to utterly overwhelm the Klingons with a million new warriors every 4 minutes...

For those unfamilar with Sontarans but wishing to contribute, some info taken from series 30/4:
They are cloned warriors produced at a rate of 1 million every 4 minutes. They seem to operate a mixture of large command and smaller one man vessels in a manner not dissimilar to aircraft carriers. They posses moderately effective body armour as well as great strength and vitality. Their majour weakness is the Probic Vent, a hole in the back of their neck that provides them with the energy that keeps them alive. A blow to it can stun them, any sharp object inserted into it will kill them. This means they must always face their enemies, running is suicidal. Not that they are afraid of death. They can also clone members of other species to act as infiltrators but need to keep the original alive to provide memories for the clone. They also possess rudimentary hypnosis technology, usable on a one on one basis, such people are relatively easy to notice.

They do value honour, but seem to prefer victory if a choice if offered.

[Kosmopolite]

I think the Sontarans have it in numbers and strategy, though when it comes to actually battle (space or melee) it's got to be the Klingons. They have the physical strength and technological prowess of the Sontarans. That said, I'd say it'd be a close-run thing, but the Klingons have it.

[Storm Bringer]

Really depends on the FTL speeds of the Sontaran fleets. If the klingons are faster (which, considering the ease with which they hop around the galaxy, is somewhat likey), then they can bring a large percentage of thier force to bear where they want, giving them a local superiority in numbers. the Sontaran greater total numbers can offset this, but still, it's a point in pie-heads favour.

Klingons, dispite their mook orgins, are not bad at tactics, and would likey outthink the sotarans (who, lets face it, have been in a zero-sum war with the Rutans for most of recorded time.) while the Sontarans may be able to deploy more men and ships, the klingons are far more likey to be able to get enough ships to the right place at the right time to win battles.

Also, we know that the kingons have transporter tech and the Sontaran don't (or at least that they need to board craft using shuttles, etc (the two doctors. Jesini orders the computer to open all docking bays, implying that the Sontaran need to dock)).

I'm not sure if the Sontarans have sheilds, but if they don't, the battles are going to be very one sided.

Sontarans; attack!

Klingons: teleport anti-matter bombs into those ships

Sontarans: boom.


the cloaks would help a lot, giving the klingons all sorts of options.

I think what were looking at is a Iran-Iraq war set up: one side has a lot of lower quality troops, the other has fwe but better troops. the Sontaran's use thier numbers to overwhelm the klingons, the Klingons use their superior firepower and tactics to counter the Sontaran numbers. the question is can the Sontaran divert enough men to this side front to beat the Klingons?

[Kosmopolite]

Actually, the Sontarans do have shields and transporters, as you see in The Sontaran Stratagem. The Doctor also calls them 'the finest soldiers in the galaxy' which probably suggests that the Rutans are a difficult foe, rather than that the Sontarans are sub-par soldiers.

[Evil DM Mark3]

They also have Teleport jamming capabilites.

As for the Rutans...

The Rutans are (depending on what we take as cannon) capable of creating lethal electric charges from their bodies, traveling at FTL speeds unaided and shape shifting...

From what we get told the Sontaran/Rutan war seems to go through phases where one side gets the upper hand and the other developes a new tactic/technological advance that turns the tide. It is a zero-sum war because both sides are evenly matched. Don't forget that the Sontarans managed to INVADE GALEFREY, even if they where kicked out in less than a day.

[Nibleswick]

I think that the Klingons would probably have a good deal of success to start with, but the Sontarans would use that time to study the Klingons very carefully looking for weaknesses to exploit, and after that they would crush the Klingons with their numbers (unless the Doctor and Picard show up, stop the war peacefully, and deliver an aesop).

[Hunter Noventa]

(unless the Doctor and Picard show up, stop the war peacefully, and deliver an aesop).

I think the universe might explode from awesome before they could finish delivering the aesop.

[Infinity_Biscuit]

Klingons: teleport anti-matter bombs into those ships

Sontarans: boom.
When do people in Star Trek ever even think of doing this?

[Kosmopolite]

They don't because they can't. That was the point: do Sontarans have comparable shields to negate such tactics. I think that last episode showed that they did, though I don't know for sure.

[Infinity_Biscuit]

They don't because they can't.
Don't they beam straight into Borg ships mid-battle? It would seem to be a better use of resources to send in a bomb rather than the captain, but they don't seem to think to do the former.

Not that it's really a big deal. How big is the Sontaran Empire? The Klingon Empire is only a few hundred worlds of worth, if it's comparable to the Federation (and I think it's somewhat smaller, actually).

[LBO]

I think the universe might explode from awesome before they could finish delivering the aesop.
You know Patrick Stewart and David Tennant are appearing together in the RSC Hamlet production this autumn?

[Jorkens]

You know Patrick Stewart and David Tennant are appearing together in the RSC Hamlet production this autumn?
I still haven't got over Patrick Stewart vs Alec Guinness in the BBC's adaptation of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy - "only a master of communism, Karla..."

[warty goblin]

Don't they beam straight into Borg ships mid-battle? It would seem to be a better use of resources to send in a bomb rather than the captain, but they don't seem to think to do the former.

Not that it's really a big deal. How big is the Sontaran Empire? The Klingon Empire is only a few hundred worlds of worth, if it's comparable to the Federation (and I think it's somewhat smaller, actually).

You forget one thing: bombs can be defused. I have never seen any Sci Fi show where the bad guys have managed to defuse the Captain.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Not that it's really a big deal. How big is the Sontaran Empire?

This is never clearly shown. We can assume that it is reasonably large, quite possibly containing subjugated species (although that is 100% speculation). The mentality of the Sontarans is militaristic and expansionist so it can be assumed they have a sizable empire, but we have no hard facts. We do know that the empire was expanding as early as the 12th century AD as a scout ship crashed on earth during that time.

Also Warty Goblin, that has to be in the top 100,000 (we are talking about the interwebz after all) wierdest posts to have been made.