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Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-07, 04:53 PM
A section of the Skaven underground system, containing representatives from all the various Skaven groups (in sizes proportionate to their total numbers, so one clan will still be smaller than another proportionally) the size of Middle Earth will be appear BENEATH Middle Earth, with various and appropriate exits onto Middle Earth (so Dwarves and goblins in the Mountains might find their tunnels... furrier) Now, realizing the vast differences in magical power, the Skaven magical potential will be cut down as if they were both far enough from the source of the Winds of Magic and with an irremovable Waystone (or Keystone) that limits their magic to the levels of magic on Middle Earth. Similarly, their tech level will stay the same, but the availability (for various resource related reasons) will be cut down. So any "simple" contraptions like muskets will be far easier to craft then say... Warp Cannons. So, what happens?

This happens BEFORE the events of the Lord of the Rings series, but AFTER The Hobbit.

Edit: If you don't know who the Skaven are, enlighten yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skaven)

EvilDMMk3
2008-05-07, 05:14 PM
Well, Sauron is unlikely to tolerate a rival. The Wizards are also likely to take an interest. Do not forget that there are far worse things than mere Skaven in the Deep Places. But to be honest a direct cut and drop would result in too much genre clash, Middle Earth is very low fantasy considering.

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-07, 05:22 PM
Yea see, thats why its NOT a direct cut and drop. Thats why the Skavens resources for their tech, and magical ability have been stunted so they won't just overthrow Middle Earth with contemptuous ease.

Redpieper
2008-05-07, 05:22 PM
Hmm interesting match up,
I'm going to need some more details, so here's a couple of questions:

1: Do they get any magical items from the army book?
2: What about special characters?
3: What's the numbers, or more relevant: how long does it take till they are noticed?
4: Are the clans still feuding with one another?

In warhammer skaven are held back by all the other races, but in ME I can see them simply overwhelming everyone with sheer numbers.
They breed like well rats :smalltongue:
I'm going to wait for the answers and think about the match up a bit.

hmmm

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-07, 05:28 PM
1. I'm going more from knowledge of lore, so if they have the resources to build it (they have resources to build all of their tech, but not enough to just kill everything) so yes.
2. No special characters, the only special characters would be drawn directly from the pool of available Skaven (basically these new communities are still split into their normal groups, but they can "choose" their own leaders)
3. Well they're proportionate to the total population of the Skaven, just in numbers that fit an area the size of Middle Earth. A.K.A not long
4. Well, what with resources being limited, and all the different factions being proportionally represented based on their total size converted to fit an area under just Middle Earth... yes.

EvilDMMk3
2008-05-07, 05:29 PM
My other comments still true. More true in fact. With that being the case have you any idea how hard even getting to the surface is going to be? Skaven are likely to find themselves friendless. They may well end up as "another thing in the deep world". Along with goblins, big things with wings, etc etc.

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-07, 05:38 PM
You... answered your own question. There are massive cave systems that lead deep, deep underground. And, unlike the other deep-things, they aren't afraid of coming to the surface like goblins, and they don't need to be woken up like a Balor. Besides, if they need to they'll make massive Warp-Drills to cut through the stone. You do realize all of the Skaven Tunnels that criss-cross under the whole of the Old World were made by the Skaven right?

Redpieper
2008-05-07, 06:00 PM
1. I'm going more from knowledge of lore, so if they have the resources to build it (they have resources to build all of their tech, but not enough to just kill everything) so yes.
2. No special characters, the only special characters would be drawn directly from the pool of available Skaven (basically these new communities are still split into their normal groups, but they can "choose" their own leaders)
3. Well they're proportionate to the total population of the Skaven, just in numbers that fit an area the size of Middle Earth. A.K.A not long
4. Well, what with resources being limited, and all the different factions being proportionally represented based on their total size converted to fit an area under just Middle Earth... yes.

1: Well I'm going to assume Skyre can't build another doom hemisphere (a nuke).
2: Fair enough.
3: Alright.
4: This could be problematic for the Skaven, as even in the Warhammer world their worst enemy is themselves.

Well the Skaven might win this one, eventually they'll clear out the tunnels by sheer numbers. Once they have, they'll be focusing on the surface, this could prove difficult.
Sauron inc. would be a real challenge, though clan Eshin might be able to track down the ring and toss it in the volcano, that's being optimistic though. :smallsigh:

The real silver bullet the Skaven have though is: Clan Pestilens.
Their plagues will wreak havoc upon ME, they are very potent and they have lots of them. I can imagine the humans and maybe even the elves won't be much of a problem after oh say the fifth plague or so. :smallbiggrin:
The orcs are probably more resilient, but with the numbers and rate of reproducing the Skaven have, they'll eventually go down. :smallamused:

Now waiting for a lotr fan to shoot my predictions down. :smallyuk:

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-07, 07:55 PM
Huh, I woulda thought EE and Warty woulda jumped on this. Though I do recall that elves are resistant to plagues, poisons, and sickness in all forms, so they might do well against Clan Pestilens. (if clan Pestilens don't start another civil war and have to have their leaders put down... again)

Kojiro Kakita
2008-05-07, 08:46 PM
Wait, how will the Skaven access Warpstone, I mean without them they are pretty much sunked (WARPSTONE THROWERS AND RATLING GUNS BE DAMNED)

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-08, 01:38 PM
Like I said, there will be warpstone deposits as well, but in numbers limited enough so that the Skaven can't just curbstomp everyone else. Just like in WHFB :smallamused:

Storm Bringer
2008-05-08, 02:02 PM
arguebly, their cannot be warpstone in ME, as it's parts of one of the WFB universes moons. the only warpstone they would have would be stuff they brought with them. Also, most of the magical stuff would be screwed, as it again relies on WFB specific conditions e.g. a gate to a Place Worse Than Hell spewing raw magic into the world.

so thier goes the skavens two best 'i win' buttons. they do know how to make conventional gunpowder, which we know works in ME, so anything gunpower tech they used would work. I'm not sure about some of the beast-things that clan Whats It's Name makes, it's a toss off wether they can work in a non-warp infused enviroment. the plauges should work fine, apart form on the elves.

clearing the underground of goblins is going to be within the skavens power: they are conumate tunnel fighters, and the goblins, well....are the orcs weaker brother. the nastier stuff is likey beyound them, but they can avoid what the need to.


to me, their biggest problem is going to be Sauron, in particular not falling under his grip. really, I see thier most likey outcome as padding out the armies of the dark lord. they don't have anything that could really handle the Nine, and thier just the sort of people to cut a deal with a evil race if it profits them.

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-08, 02:13 PM
Check the first post. I know it wouldn't work if they were just dumped there, thats why I set out what they have and what they don't. I tried to give them magic and technology that would not just simply let them conquer ME easily, but would still make them a threat.

Storm Bringer
2008-05-08, 02:21 PM
indeed, but it's argueable that thier entire way of war is built around objects and effects that only work in a warp infused region. On middle earth, lacking the high ambient magic of home, a lot of thier stuff would just stop working. the rat ogres would die, the grey seers would be unable to see, ect. the basis of most of their economy and socity, magitech, would just cease to function.

hell, the most likey outcome is that the skaven decend into a long genoical civil war as the minor warlords try to claim power, and they never really bother the surface at all.

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-08, 03:06 PM
indeed, but it's argueable that thier entire way of war is built around objects and effects that only work in a warp infused region. On middle earth, lacking the high ambient magic of home, a lot of thier stuff would just stop working. the rat ogres would die, the grey seers would be unable to see, ect. the basis of most of their economy and socity, magitech, would just cease to function.

hell, the most likey outcome is that the skaven decend into a long genoical civil war as the minor warlords try to claim power, and they never really bother the surface at all.

You're not hearing me. I don't care if its normally found in ME, for the sake of this thread, there are warpstones, and the Skaven magic level is set so that it is "on par" with ME magic level, as dictated in the first post.

comicshorse
2008-05-08, 05:03 PM
Posted by Stormbringer

they don't have anything that could really handle the Nine,

Don't froget the Skaven have fought Nagash before. Dealing with really powerful undead is one of their specialities

Mr.Silver
2008-05-08, 05:37 PM
Posted by Stormbringer


Don't froget the Skaven have fought Nagash before. Dealing with really powerful undead is one of their specialities

Aye, and then there's the possibility of summoning a Vermin Lord. Plus, even if it is limited in quantity, their tech is far and away beyond anything ME has encountered. Can you imagine the psychological damage alone facing something like a warpfire thrower or a ratling gun would cause? Come to think of it, aren't the wringwraiths vulnerable to fire?
Then there's the jezzails, and all the long-range sniping they can do.


Though I do recall that elves are resistant to plagues, poisons, and sickness in all forms, so they might do well against Clan Pestilens
Is this including magical plagues, because I'm pretty sure Pestilens have some of those kicking around. Even if they can though, the humans are in for a really bad time Bear in mind that Pestilens were able to keep the Lizardmen pinned down into siege defence for over a millennium with judicious application of their plagues, and that involved going against who are the single most powerful magic-users in the warhammer world (as in: they can reshape continents if they work together). Although this invasion would be a lot smaller-scale, the effects would sill be pretty nasty.


I'd say the rats are definitely in with a shot here. Any underground warfare is basically a foregone conclusion, given that tunnel warfare is practically the norm for your average skaven warrior, plus their specialised kit like the poison wind globes, so carving out an underground empire would be perfectly feasible. The surface is less certain, Sauron is a seriously tough prospect, excluding a lucky shot with a Brass Orb. Plus, if their numbers start growing to the point where they could just basically drown everyone in numbers the in-fighting is going to start kicking-in again. Nonetheless, I'd say if this happened you'd have a major new power on the Middle Earth scene.