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DarthArminius
2008-05-09, 07:57 PM
Ganon, Palpatine, and Dhoul Magus form a triple alliance in the Warhammer Fantasy world.(or any fantasy world)

Assuming they can all teach magic to followers and raise armies, how dangerous would they be?

Jerthanis
2008-05-09, 08:36 PM
Ganon/Palpatine/Dhoul Magus sounds like a good beginning to the warning tags for the best Slash fanfic ever.

Dhoul Magus was kind of a pushover as far as bosses go, and was really just a puppet for the Azaalak demon, or whatever it was called. Really, he was a speedbump in DQ8's story, and proved mostly inconsequential considering how much buildup he got. Palpatine is only really effective when he can orchestrate Xanatos Gambits involving manipulating governments full of enormous idiots, and other than that is only modestly powerful in terms of fantasy magic. Ganon meanwhile, depending on which incarnation, is actually a pretty reasonable enemy, sporting more durability than the others, requiring specific artifacts or magic to even hurt at all, and controlling magic beyond the capacity of either. Assuming it's Link to the Past Ganon, he could tear a world asunder on his own, since he controls the Triforce.

Overall, I think you could come up with a more solid dynamic of Villains to threaten a fantasy world both from a planning/scheming and manipulating standpoint, and from a raw power standpoint.

Revlid
2008-05-10, 08:08 AM
Hell, a regular Tzeentch Champion outclasses all of them bar Ganon - he's probably Tzeentch Lord level.

But yeah, in WFB they're screwed as far being BBEG goes.

Ubiq
2008-05-10, 03:26 PM
Palpatine's effectiveness really depends on how The Force translates into magic. Far and away his greatest ability was The Shroud of the Dark Side, which manages to dampen the abilities of every Jedi in existence while not hampering the abilities of his servants in the least. It didn't even require a conscious effort to maintain by appearances.

Palpatine's other abilities aren't that great shakes by comparison (though the fact that a seemingly fragile old man is a extremely fast master swordsman will probably be a nasty surprise for at least one would-be hero), but that doesn't matter if every potential opponent's ability to use magic is hampered by the mere fact that Sidious is alive and running around.

Talkkno
2008-05-11, 12:43 PM
Palpatine's effectiveness really depends on how The Force translates into magic. Far and away his greatest ability was The Shroud of the Dark Side, which manages to dampen the abilities of every Jedi in existence while not hampering the abilities of his servants in the least. It didn't even require a conscious effort to maintain by appearances.

Palpatine's other abilities aren't that great shakes by comparison (though the fact that a seemingly fragile old man is a extremely fast master swordsman will probably be a nasty surprise for at least one would-be hero), but that doesn't matter if every potential opponent's ability to use magic is hampered by the mere fact that Sidious is alive and running around.

Well he did create force storms that could take down a super star destroyer in Dark Empire....which means he could **** up anyone within several kilometers not to mention he can come back from the dead.

hamishspence
2008-05-11, 12:50 PM
Controlling these storms perfectly, on the other hand, is another matter: when luke and leia basically use "shroud of the light side" or nearest equivalent, storm consumes him.

Also, his ability to possess people is quite limited, and if it goes wrong, possessed victim can take Palpatine's spirit with him when he dies (Empire's End)

So, his powers have flaws.

Tyrant
2008-05-11, 06:02 PM
Controlling these storms perfectly, on the other hand, is another matter: when luke and leia basically use "shroud of the light side" or nearest equivalent, storm consumes him.

Also, his ability to possess people is quite limited, and if it goes wrong, possessed victim can take Palpatine's spirit with him when he dies (Empire's End)

So, his powers have flaws.

I have unfortunately not read the assorted stories with the Clone Palpatine, but from the reviews I gather he was going crazy due to some kind of foul up with the cloning. Would that not have some effect on his force powers (because they require concentration which is hard to do when one is going crazy)?

Either way, his more impressive abilities involve manipulation and seeing the future. He is able to see the possible outcomes and see what it will take to guide events in that direction. It isn't perfect, as he found out on board the second Death Star (though he did see that Luke would be his downfall, and he was). However, his track record up to that point was pretty good. Add to that his ability to overcome set backs. He is the master of plan B. He wasn't a universe destroying god or anything, but he was the most powerful Sith Lord*

*In theory. When I see Naga Sadow destroying stars, Darth Nihilus consuming the life force of whole planets, and other amazing feats, I wonder what else Palpatine can do to get that description. Depending on how the Force would translate to magic for this discussion, Nihilus could well be considered more powerful.

Edit: I almost forgot his other abilities that apply since we are speaking of armies. He can teach others the ways of the Sith. As his Hands or full fledged Sith Lords. Either has the ability to communicate with him via telepathy across galactic distances (so any two points on a single planet will be nothing). This would allow for a fairly impressive level of coordination amongst different groups of soldiers/agents, which plays to his strengths of manipulation and foresight. He can use what amounts to battle meditation. Several of the books state that he was driving the will, and in some part the coordination, of the Imperial military. If he could do that across a military the size of the Empire's and across what have to be pretty vast distances, doing that to a fantasy scale military should be fairly easy for him. Coupled with his force sensitive agents (would these amount to sorcorers?) he could maintain control over his military and execute coordinated attacks beyond the ability of most of his enemies (unless there is something he will face that I am unaware of). It isn't raw power, but it has lots of uses.

Quxelopqr
2008-05-11, 11:32 PM
I'd say replace Dhoulmagus with Deathtamoor from Dragon Quest 6. A real last boss who manipulates everything, from seperating the heroes from their spirits to having every single boss underneath him as well as being able to have his followers take over kingdoms, to actually taking the initiative to get rid of the things that can harm him like Dhama temple (the class change place), the town where you learn Madante (all mp = kaboom for massive damage), and Zenith's castle. Granted, the hero restores all of them, but you never see Ganon seal the master sword in a bubble that can't be seen. It's the planning and thought that counts there.

In terms of raising an army and such? I'm imagining the rediculous demon army of Deathtamoor, the clone army and some sith, and legions of mobians. That's a pretty rough combo for any group that isn't made up of Link, Luke, the Hero, and Chuck Norris/O'Chul.