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Steven the Lich
2008-05-11, 12:59 PM
I came up with this awesome idea, but I have been unable to post it.

The Ancients in question are the ancients from Eternal Darkness. There are four, Mantorok the Corpse god, also of chaos and order, Chattur'Gha the God of physical strength and matter, Xel'Lotath the goddess of mind and madness, and Uylogoth the god of Dimensional panes.

Their opponent... the main driving force of Stephen King's horror world, and an entity just as ominous and unknown. Bring in the Crimson King.
Both beings revolve around horror and insanity, with evil beyond comprehension (excluding Mantorok, he is the only one of the Ancients with decent thoughts for humans in mind). They both also attempt to influence the world through their servants, Pious the Liche being of the Ancients (not Mantorok though) and ... the other guy, whose name escapes my memory, for the Crimson King.

Settings are as followed.
Chattur'gha against the Crimson King.
Ulyagoth vs. the Crimson King
Xel'Lotath vs. the Crimson King
Mantorok vs. the Crimson King
Ulyagoth, Chattur'gha, and Xel'lotath vs. King louis:smallsmile:...
You know I mean the Crimson King.:smallamused:

Both sides get their servants, magic, etc.
Who wins each situation?
(Know this... in actuality, they would not team up, this is just a setting)

DarthArminius
2008-05-11, 02:13 PM
Well, Ulyaoth is god of magic as well as wisdom. Maybe he can seal the Crimosn King.

poleboy
2008-05-11, 04:32 PM
Who or what exactly is the Crimson King? Since the Ancients are basically Lovecraft beings of unimaginable horror from beyond time & space, the mere mention of which could destroy a human's mind blahblahblah, my money's on them. The only reason one of the ancients haven't destroyed or conquered anything in existence is because they are keeping each other in check. And now you want them to work together? MADNESS! Unstoppable madness, even. Even the thought is something Man Was Not Meant To imagine. I think that qualifies as a win, if destroying existence can be called that.

Steven the Lich
2008-05-11, 04:36 PM
They don't destroy existance... they shape it to their desire.

If you want to know more about the Crimson King, wait for Lizardfolk Lich to get here, he's the Stephen king archivist. He should be here any moment now...
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... now....
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... now...
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... now?
Just two posts over the first few hours... I expected... more somewhat.

Mr.Silver
2008-05-11, 06:08 PM
They don't destroy existance... they shape it to their desire.

If you want to know more about the Crimson King, wait for Lizardfolk Lich to get here, he's the Stephen king archivist. He should be here any moment now...
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... now....
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... now...
5, 4, 3, 2, 1... now?
Just two posts over the first few hours... I expected... more somewhat.
Hey, at least your versus thread actually got replies.
Guess it's just the way of these things, all anyone cares about are 'could current media spotlight character X beat/beat something from Middle Earth/Warhammer 40K in a cage match' threads, whereas the ones with some thought put into the characters and conditions are ignored and [insert 50 paragraphs of generic grumbling and complaints here].

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-11, 09:54 PM
Isn't the Crimson King basically evil incarnate? I really don't know that much about him I'm afraid.

EvilElitest
2008-05-11, 09:54 PM
I think both are too powerful for vs. threads sadly
from
EE

Bago!!!
2008-05-12, 05:38 PM
The ancients win, merely because they are all super powerful and are by far capable of destroying our world and reshaping it however they please. The only reason why the usually haven't done so, is merely because they are far too busy fighting each other.

Steven the Lich
2008-05-12, 08:18 PM
Lizardfolk Lich! Where are you!?:eek: How can I get this argument going without you to lend your undying support to the Crimson King? :frown: Your the avid fan of Stephen's work for crying out loud!

Doesn't the Crimson King do what the Ancients do as well? Come to think of it, both of them died by similar means? (Alternate Ancient storylines were combined, and in each one, one ancient is killed) (Crimson king on his profile on Wikipedia is said to have been removed from existance)

And don't forget, the Ancients were also held prisoner by Mantorok.
I think the Crimson King has an good chance. He is the lord of evil, and one of the most terrifying forces in Stephen Kings world (Besides IT, but ITs intention is just to eat)

Gaelbert
2008-05-12, 08:30 PM
Is it sad that the first person I thought of when I saw this thread title was Robert Fripp? King Crimson would totally take on all comers...

Rutee
2008-05-13, 12:46 AM
Mmm.. I don't buy the Ancients being all that powerful.. their Prophet guy was empowered by one and he can still get Ginsu'd by a somewhat ordinary human girl....

poleboy
2008-05-13, 01:08 AM
Mmm.. I don't buy the Ancients being all that powerful.. their Prophet guy was empowered by one and he can still get Ginsu'd by a somewhat ordinary human girl....

Alex wasn't exactly ordinary, she was the last descendant of a long line of people who sacrificed their lives to fight the ancients. It's hinted in the game that she is destined to fight them and possibly imbued with some power to do so.
And besides, Pious may have been empowered by the ancients, but this happened while they were imprisoned by Mantorok (and presumably weakened). Besides, he's also human and thus weak and insignificant :smallwink:

Steven the Lich
2008-05-13, 05:40 PM
Mmm.. I don't buy the Ancients being all that powerful.. their Prophet guy was empowered by one and he can still get Ginsu'd by a somewhat ordinary human girl....

A girl with
A) A magic gladius.
B) Powers of a dominant ancient.

She is also of a bloodline of people who have fought the Ancients.

I think very much the Ancients are powerful in many aspects.

Rutee
2008-05-13, 06:14 PM
I'm pretty sure the Gladius is a bonus weapon you get for doing everything right with the Arabian guy, the Canadian, and a few others... but eh. I know they were going for "Cthonic Horror" at least, there's just few displays of great power on something that isn't each other.

poleboy
2008-05-14, 01:25 AM
I'm pretty sure the Gladius is a bonus weapon you get for doing everything right with the Arabian guy, the Canadian, and a few others... but eh. I know they were going for "Cthonic Horror" at least, there's just few displays of great power on something that isn't each other.

If you collect specific artifacts during the game, you get a gladius that's perma-enchanted with the color that's iffy to the specific ancient you're fighting. It's still the same basic sword though, and you can easily enchant the ordinary one with a spell that's just as powerful yourself.

We need an Eternal Darkness thread. That game's too awesome for words. I'm going to play it today I think.

freerangetroll
2008-05-16, 11:20 PM
I don't even know what the ancients are aside from the blurb above. Even knowing that little I do know this. The king loses.

The king is basically the ultimate spider in the middle of a web villain. One on one he has absolutely nothing going for him unless he can influence your mind.

His final battle with Roland in the Dark Tower series is basically a standoff in which the kings "super ability" seems to be throwing exploding sneetches at Roland and Patrick (may not be the correct name) who are hiding behind a large boulder. Roland shoots them down and then Patrick destroys the king by drawing a picture of him and erasing it.

Really, really pathetic for the main antagonist of an entire author's works.

I_am_an_undead
2008-05-17, 08:38 PM
I love eternal darkness! Weeeee! Tiers Pargon Pargon Aretack Pargon Pargon Xel'Lotath!

Anyway, the problem with all this is that we don't know exactly how powerful a freed ancient is except compared with another ancient. Remember that thourough the whole game, the ancients have been imprisoned (or weakened in the case of Mantorok) and could only influence the world through their minions. When they were freed, they only had the time to kill each others. As such, it is hard to say what they can do.

Arang
2008-05-18, 11:25 AM
I don't even know what the ancients are aside from the blurb above. Even knowing that little I do know this. The king loses.

The king is basically the ultimate spider in the middle of a web villain. One on one he has absolutely nothing going for him unless he can influence your mind.

His final battle with Roland in the Dark Tower series is basically a standoff in which the kings "super ability" seems to be throwing exploding sneetches at Roland and Patrick (may not be the correct name) who are hiding behind a large boulder. Roland shoots them down and then Patrick destroys the king by drawing a picture of him and erasing it.

Really, really pathetic for the main antagonist of an entire author's works.

The reason for the somewhat anticlimactic final battle is that the Crimson King is by that point both mad and bereft of his power. Despite this, he's immortal, and even though he is destroyed as utterly as it is possible to be his eyes continue to exist.

Flagg talks about the King at the end of the first book. He's very vague but essentially says that the King (I think he refers to him as the Beast) is the most powerful magician there is. The King, as it happens, is also really an unimaginable horror etc., like Pennywise in The Thing. The main characters of that book barely survive when Pennywise reveals his true form, and that's with what amounts to a Get-out-of-jail-free card from God.

You never really get to know what the Crimson King is or what he's capable of. He has, apparently, brought about the destruction of many worlds, he's killed everything around his castle for hundreds of miles, and he exerts irresistible mental control. For all we know he'd snuff everyone he wanted to without thinking about it.

So, the King might or might not be a match for these other people I've never heard of before. He's certainly no pushover, though.

Verruckt
2008-05-18, 11:55 AM
Well, there was that one incident where the King was trying to essentially take a big psychic axe to Yggdrasil and destroy the 10th dimension (read: using psychic breakers to destroy the dark tower and thusly all of the infinite infinities of existence) So I think in the long term he plays much harder ball than the Ancients, but in terms of actual personal power i don't know how he'd do.

freerangetroll
2008-05-18, 02:43 PM
I've read pretty much every novel that dealt with the King. His powers are all apparently mentally based, quite powerful, but against someone who can deal with them he seems to be on the low range of the power scale. He regularly gets beaten by run of the mill people.

I also wouldn't take anything Flagg says without about a thousand grains of salt. The walking dude lies every time he opens his mouth.