PDA

View Full Version : The Dagda Mor vs. the Witch-King



Callos_DeTerran
2008-05-13, 07:14 PM
The combatants!

The Dagda Mor, strongest Demon of the Shannara series until his untimely death.


When the Ellcrys begins to fail, the Dagda Mor, then leader of the Demons, used his sorcery to escape The Forbidding with two of his subjects. Seeking to gain revenge on those who imprisoned him, he set out to ensure his victory by slaying the Chosen. He also set his sights on Allanon, for only Allanon could match his power. Sending his Demon brethren after the Druid, the Dagda Mor prepared for his assault on the Elves. When the Ellcrys' rebirth was close at hand and the Demons were halted, the Dagda Mor mounted a giant Northland bat to do battle with a Roc-mounted Allanon. Both mounts perished, and the two matched their sorcerous powers. Despite the Dagda Mor's strength, he was bested by the Druid, and his body was disintegrated by Druid Fire.

The Dagda Mor takes on a humanoid appearance, but has a massive hump on his back, green fur and scales on his lower legs and forearms, a catlike muzzle, and dark eyes. He channels his magic through his Staff of Power, an object that he uses for several purposes.

There ya go for those who don't know this foul beast of evil. As for resources the Dagda Mor has such things with him...

A Northland Bat (His mount)
Staff of Power (Duh, it's his signature weapon)
The Reaper
The Changling
10 Ogres
20 Furies
20 Demon Wolfs
4,000 assorted Kobolds, Goblins, Imps, and Gremlins

In the other corner we have the Witch-King!

...yeah almost everybody knows who the Witch-King is. He doesn't need a quote box because I'm sure LotR fans will be arguing his case.

What does the Witch-King get?

A Fellbeast (Obviously his mount)
His sword and mace (No Morgul dagger...or was that his sword? This part up for revision)
2 other Nazgul on horses
10 Olog-hai
40 Worg-riders
5,000 Uruk-hai

The battlefield will be a neutral place that neither have any knowledge of. The tiered city of Riva on the Isle of Winds (pre-looted, sacked, and utterly empty) and the rest of the island. The Dagda Mor wins if the Witch-King is eliminated and the opposing forces are routed. The Witch-King wins if both the Changling and the Dagda Mor are defeated OR the Demons destroyed (Changling and Dagda Mor can be thrown in or not)

Discuss.

FoE
2008-05-13, 07:24 PM
The Demons in Elfstones of Shannara weren't actually all that powerful individually. Their strength lied in their countless numbers (for every Demon that died, there was three to take its place), and the fact they were completely uncaring about their survival and would never retreat. The Changeling died in a fight with an old, wounded Elven king, and the Dagda Mor was defeated pretty easily by Allanon. His bat was tough, but not very fast. The toughest Demon in this whole mix is the Reaper, and the Witch King might have difficulty taking him down. But otherwise, it goes to Tolkein.

Callos_DeTerran
2008-05-13, 07:31 PM
The Demons in Elfstones of Shannara weren't actually all that powerful individually. Their strength lied in their countless numbers (for every Demon that died, there was three to take its place), and the fact they were completely uncaring about their survival and would never retreat. The Changeling died in a fight with an old, wounded Elven king, and the Dagda Mor was defeated pretty easily by Allanon. His bat was tough, but not very fast. The toughest Demon in this whole mix is the Reaper, and the Witch King might have difficulty taking him down. But otherwise, it goes to Tolkein.

The Changeling isn't meant for actual fighting (Sabotage) plus was also assaulted by another two guards and an old, wounded Elven king who was still a very skilled warrior. EDIT: More importantly it can replace the Dagda Mor as the leader if the Mor DOES fall.

The Dagda Mor wasn't defeated easily, just quickly. Magical battles in Shannara don't seem to last very long but the Dagda Mor was still the most powerful Demon and close to, if not more so, stronger then Allanon (Which is still saying much considering Allanon was pretty powerful himself, if human). There was really only two ways I could have gone, give the Dagda Mor side numbers or the really powerful Demons which is an unfair advantage. Aside from that I think 1vs1 a Demon of the lower sort will fair well again orcs. Not counting that Furies and Demonwolfs have some resistance to normal weaponry and magic.

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-13, 07:38 PM
Just out of curiosity, how come the Reaper isn't on the list of 'must be killed for victory?'

Speaking of whom, the Dagda Mor could probably just send him out to single handedly slaughter the orcs while having everyone else sit back and find some defensible position in some ruined buildings where flying mounts wouldn't help the Nazgul much.

On the other hand, the WK could do more or less the same to the demons. He just wouldn't, not without his hordes to follow him. Even on Weathertop he had other Nazgul with him.

Callos_DeTerran
2008-05-13, 07:45 PM
Just out of curiosity, how come the Reaper isn't on the list of 'must be killed for victory?'

Speaking of whom, the Dagda Mor could probably just send him out to single handedly slaughter the orcs while having everyone else sit back and find some defensible position in some ruined buildings where flying mounts wouldn't help the Nazgul much.

On the other hand, the WK could do more or less the same to the demons. He just wouldn't, not without his hordes to follow him. Even on Weathertop he had other Nazgul with him.

Because the Demons wouldn't follow the Reaper, the Reaper would just kill the Demons then move unto the next nearest prey..cause..thats just what it does. If it comes down to just the Reaper then the battle is over anyway.

There is but one single flying mount on each side. I don't imagine the Witch-King sending out the only Fell Beast on the island if it'd be in danger.

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-13, 08:07 PM
Because the Demons wouldn't follow the Reaper, the Reaper would just kill the Demons then move unto the next nearest prey..cause..thats just what it does. If it comes down to just the Reaper then the battle is over anyway.

There is but one single flying mount on each side. I don't imagine the Witch-King sending out the only Fell Beast on the island if it'd be in danger.

Good point...I forgot about the whole 'lives only to kill' thing.

Hmm. What do you suppose is stronger? A Nazgul's aura of fear or the sheer terror the demons have of the Dagda Mor? By which I mean, could he still force them to fight if WK came on the scene?

Callos_DeTerran
2008-05-13, 08:26 PM
I think it'd depend on how close the Dagda Mor was at the moment, if the troops in question knew the Reaper or Changling were near by, and how crazy that particular demon is...If none of the above are close by I think everything but the Furies might retreat from the Nazgul.

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-13, 08:35 PM
If I remember the book right, the Dagda Mor flew around a lot but once the Forbidding came down he stayed pretty close to the demon horde, so I don't see a reason he'd do any different this time around...

Do you remember the capabilities of Furies, Ogres, Demon Wolfs etc? It's been a long time since I read the book.

Lordsmoothe
2008-05-13, 08:54 PM
I've never read the Elfstone books, but they sound interesting, and have only a modicum of intimacy with Tolkien's works, but my vote goes to the celtic all-father god, especially if he gets Lugh on his side.

Fairly useless comment in this particular match-up, but that's who I'd vote for.

FoE
2008-05-13, 09:13 PM
I'll take that back: the Demons could win this fight if the Dagda Mor sends (or directs, really) the Reaper at the Witch King. Even if he defeated the Reaper, the Dagda Mor could in theory finish off the Witch King at that point. Afterwards it's just a matter of wiping out the uruk-hai and their buddies.

There were some Demons that were insubstantial, but they were few in comparison to the Goblins, Harpies and others that made up the Demon hordes. And yes, a few of them were pretty damn big, like the Dragons.

Really, the Demons could kick ass on most settings you unleashed them upon, if they had their full numbers behind them. There were hundreds of thousands of them unleashed on the Four Lands when the Ellecrys began to weaken, and that wasn't even the full measure of their strength. Their numbers are immeasurable.

EvilElitest
2008-05-13, 09:32 PM
Hmmmmmm, if we had an unlimited number of Demons (and the WK had to destroy a portal or something) i'd give it to the Demons. However i think the WK has a fair chance with this situation
from
EE

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-13, 09:53 PM
I think this could easily turn into an attrition battle with the absence of any real power players.

Now, if the Dagda Mor had a Jachyra on his side I'd definitely give it to him. That thing would eat orcs, trolls, words what have you.

EvilElitest
2008-05-13, 10:22 PM
I think this could easily turn into an attrition battle with the absence of any real power players.

Now, if the Dagda Mor had a Jachyra on his side I'd definitely give it to him. That thing would eat orcs, trolls, words what have you.

Would the WK get a Balrog?

That would be really cool
from
EE

FoE
2008-05-13, 10:31 PM
A Jachyra vs. a Balrog ... now that would be a hell of a match.

EvilElitest
2008-05-13, 10:32 PM
A Jachyra vs. a Balrog ... now that would be a hell of a match.

Wow, i hope bill gates makes a movie about that actually
from
EE

Callos_DeTerran
2008-05-13, 10:51 PM
Hmmmmmm, if we had an unlimited number of Demons (and the WK had to destroy a portal or something) i'd give it to the Demons. However i think the WK has a fair chance with this situation
from
EE

Well I did try to make it as even a match-up as I possibly could. In all seriousness I think this would more likely turn into a siege battle, depending on which side took the...well the only fortified position on the island which would probably be the Witch-King since the Demons are too crazily infuriated (despite having a relatively smart leader like the Dagda Mor) to sit behind walls.

A Jachyra vs. a Balrog would be an amazing battle to see.


Do you remember the capabilities of Furies, Ogres, Demon Wolfs etc? It's been a long time since I read the book.

Furies: Cat-like Demons with womens faces. Have an insatiable bloodlust and taken by the Dagda Mor when he ambushed Allanon, most likely because they could soak up a blast of Druid Fire or so before combusting (hinting at some resistance to magic but not definitive). Fearless, bat-**** crazy, and ferocious when under proper direction.

Demon Wolves: Essentially? Large wolves. Might have a keener sense of smell and definitively smarter then normal wolves seeing as how they can form traps and ambushes rather effectively. Unknown if they have any sort of resistance to weapons but they were incinerated rather nicely so not resistant to magic. Scaley so might have trouble cutting but not supernatural.

Ogres:...I really sort of equate them to Trolls. Big, stupid, and can take a vicious beating and dish one back out.

Not sure about the others..

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-14, 09:50 AM
Okay, thanks.

Hmm...if there's no time limit and the DM's horde gets stuck outside the fortified part of the island he may send in the Reaper and Changeling on stealth assassination missions to whittle down the orcs while keeping the demons back himself. The trouble with that is that he'd probably have to kill a bunch of his own horde to keep them under control, so it would even out somewhat.