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View Full Version : GitP Budokai: There Can Be, Only One!



Piedmon_Sama
2008-05-18, 11:07 PM
Because I'm bored and feel like arguing for once, I made a versus thread. And to keep it interesting, we'll have more than just a simple one on one setup. And since there's no real way to predict what could happen in a free-for-all, a tournament is the best format. For the first of such threads (to my knowledge), I decided to go with characters who aren't insanely powerful, hopefully keeping things that much simpler.

For those not in the know, the Tenkaichi Budokai is DBZ earth's most elite martial arts tournament. From hundreds of entrants, only eight contestants may qualify. Of course, death and weaponry are usually excluded from the competition, but in light of these competitors those rules will be waved.

Rules of the Budokai
-If a contestant cries, loses consciousness, steps out of bounds, or gets killed, they LOSE.
-Weaponry is limited to what the character normally wields and travels with (e.g, Spike has his glocke and Jin has his swords, nothing else).
-Characters are magically healed and their equipment/ammunition restored between rounds.

The arena is a 60x100 ft. stone platform, with one side occupied by the wall of a temple and the rest by stadium seating.

Match 1

Jin (Samurai Champloo)
-vs-
Major Alex Luis Armstrong (Full Metal Alchemist)

Match 2

Vega/Balrog (Street Fighter II)
-vs-
Artemis Entreri (Forgotten Realms)

Match 3

Connor Hawke aka Green Arrow (DC Comics)
-vs-
Spike Spiegel (Cowboy Bebop)

Match 4

Matt Murdock aka Daredevil (Marvel Comics)
-vs-
Connor McCloud (Highlander)

Match 5

Match 1 Winner
-vs-
Match 2 Winner

Match 6

Match 3 Winner
-vs-
Match 4 Winner

Match 7: Final Round!

Match 5 Winner
-vs-
Match 6 Winner

I'll post my speculation/arguments shortly.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-05-18, 11:50 PM
Quarter Finals:

Match 1

This is a fight between two very chivalric, or at least high-minded, opponents. I can definitely see Jin courteously waiting through Armstrong's long speeches, but burst forward like lightning once the big man finishes. Armstrong's not as dumb as he looks though, and the stone arena gives him lots of material to play with as an Alchemist. Jin would be forced to dodge hurled stone pillars and spikes, which Armstrong could keep firing at leisure, but the big man has to be careful--he could end up backing himself into a corner if he doesn't pick where he pulls his stone material from very carefully, and Jin's more than tactical enough to exploit such an oversight. All the swordfighter has to do to win is knock his enemy out of the ring, after all.

While Jin could pull something clever, like using a hurled pillar of rock to dart out of Armstrong's line of sight and blitz him from the flank (Artemis Entreri did something very similar to a Dark Elf swordmaster one time), this is more Armstrong's match to win. Although the Alchemist wouldn't fight to kill unless he had no choice, and Jin would comparitively have no qualms about slashing his sword through the big man's ribs or across his stomach, Armstrong is skilled enough that I think he could reliably hit Jin with a boulder or spike before the swordsman got too close. And Jin, as one of the least muscular contestants in this tournament, is liable to get knocked back quite a bit. We've seen that Jin can handle getting stabbed and sliced multiple times and keep fighting, but the blunt trauma of having a massive slab of rock crash into your body is something else.

Armstrong wins, with 7/10 odds. He would probably break Jin's ribs and pin the Ronin under a mass of rock for the victory.

Match 2

We've now got a match between two elite assassins who would just as readily slice or shank an opponent from behind as fight them up front, and any remaining detritus or craters from the first round would certainly be exploited. However, as we can't know what kind of terrain variations Armstrong would create, we'll ignore that factor for this analysis.

While both are blindingly fast, Entereri can't perform the same level of acrobatic feats Vega can--at least, I can't recall any instances where Entreri could perform a flip or series of flips from a standing position. He always needed something to grab or scale. Vega has the speed advantage, being able to flip and hurl his body around like a human cannonball. Entreri would need to rely on his vast body of technical skill.

Of course, I think the deciding factor here would be Entreri's big grab bag of magical goodies. Charon's Claw creating a smokescreen would negate Vega's speed advantage, as the "Spanish Ninja" wouldn't know which way to charge, or where the next attack might come from. We can trust Entreri to strategically employ his smokescreen just when Vega's too close to pull out, then slip out his dagger and end the fight quick and dirty. It should be mentioned that Vega's fighting claw can make a cut in solid rock, so Entreri's leather armor is unlikely to help him if it scores his throat or face. But using the above strategy, I'd say he could win very reliably, barring Vega killing him before he can initiate his trick or a lucky shot from the Spaniard.

Entreri 9/10, with a smokescreen/dagger combo.

Match 3

Connor and Spike are both superb martial artists--I remember reading somewhere, though this may not be canon, that Spike is a champion in the Martial Arts league of Mars. Of course, Connor will start the match with his bow readied, just as Spike will have his handgun in hand. Spike's obviously a skilled shot, at least on par with, say, a trained policeman or SWAT officer (I'm specifically thinking of him taking out a hostage-taker with a clean headshot in Episode 5). But you'd have to be much better than that--a real bullseye--to hit Connor Hawke, thanks to his advanced martial arts training at the Ashram. It's nowhere lauded that Spike is a spectacular shot, so assumng mere competency on his part I highly doubt he could kill Green Arrow with his gun.

On the other hand, Green Arrow II, while not as good as his old man, is an expert archer. Firing accurately while simultaneously dodging fire should be no problem for him. Either way, Spike is not coming out of this fight without some arrows stuck in him. But if the guy can shrug off repeated bullet wounds, I don't see an arrow in his leg or side slowing him down--Spike, despite his spindly frame, is a human tank and would force Connor into close quarters in short order.

It comes down to Connor's martial arts (which I don't recall being given a specific style?), learned from the ancient masters at the Ashram, against Spike's free-wheeling and fluid Jeet Kune Do. I wouldn't be fooled into saying Connor is inherantly superior because he knows multiple styles, or a synthesis of styles, even though that's the usual logic in comic books. Still, while he's tough and fast and resourceful, Spike's up against a guy trained from childhood, not to mention some lessons from Ted Kord (who's supposed to be one of DC's best martial artists). Connor's tough too, and in the end I think he'd bring Spike down, being stronger and having more weight to throw into his strikes. Even though I give odds to Connor, I wouldn't put it past Spike to quickdraw his gun or dirk in the middle of a fistfight, and win it despite arrows in his limbs or side slowing him down. Connor Hawke 6/10.

Match 4

Connor is a contestant with centuries of fighting experience to lean back on. Then again, Wolverine is a similar case and Daredevil managed to evade his strikes just fine. McCloud's samurai fighting style would be nothing new to Daredevil, who has spent years fighting against the ninja warriors of the Hand. Add in to that the advantage of Murdock's senses---360 degree vision, reflexes that border on the precognitive--and he can dance around Connor's sword and pummel him quite effectively.

Of course, Connor's big edge is being an immortal. But Daredevil never fights to kill, anyway--simply to knock his opponent out cold, and Connor's skull is no harder than an ordinary human's. If his immortality gives him any advantage, it's that, like Wolverine, he can ignore injuries, so he doesn't have to worry about protecting his body and can focus completely on the attack. I could see Conner continuing to advance even after Daredevil lands a crushing blow on his knee or ribs, catching Murdock--perhaps fatally--off guard.

Still, we're talking about a guy who's gone toe-to-toe with heavyweights like Namor the Sub-Mariner, compared to whom Connor is small potatoes. Daredevil's too experienced a crimefighter to leave himself in that katana's path, and he has the acrobatics, speed and supersenses to move around Conner and strike from the sides or behind. I would give this to Daredevil with a solid 9/10.

Semi Finals:

Match 5
Armstrong vs Entreri

I kind of wish this was the Final Round, because I think it's easily the most interesting. We have a guy who can literally tear up the ground and use it as ammunition, against an ultra-fast assassin-duelist who can create an effective smokescreen of magical blackness. Again, Armstrong has to be careful here, because Entreri is a very resourceful thinker, and the Major could easily box himself in if he just shoots in a straight line and lets himself be surrounded by darkness.

Entreri is, at his core, a high level Rogue/Fighter (as Salvatore put it, "he's not an assassin. He's a Rogue/Fighter who kills people for money.") He enjoys the benefits of evasion, which is basically wriggling your way out of attacks that should by all rights squash you like a fly. We've seen him go up against high-level battle mages before, and although he wasn't going to win due to the guy's Stoneskin, he was able to dodge fireballs for a very long time. I could easily see Artemis deploying a basic strategy--creating a smokescreen, running ahead of Armstrong's hail of stone spikes, and then doubling back under the darkness. Repeat until he's close enough for a stab from the Fight Ending Dagger.

Armstrong is neither stupid nor as helpless in close quarters as a wizard. Of course he has military training, but his basic martial arts and powerful muscles wouldn't help him against Entreri--the assassin eats powerhouses for breakfast, that's his bread and butter. If he gets in arm's reach, the fight's over and he wins. Then again, nothing says Armstrong can't double-fist his missiles and rain a swathe of stone down at the entire wall of darkness. This is a pretty even matchup, in my view, and right now I'm undecided.... I hope I hear some arguments for one side or the other that could persuade me.

Oslecamo
2008-05-19, 03:26 PM
You may not have noticed it, but in the FA manga, Armstong gets utterly defeated by his older sisterm in the last chapter translated.

source: www.onemanga.com

Note however that her sister has no alchemist powers whatsoever and the unique weapon she uses to win is a regular looking sabre.

The fight was a very serious fight, the winer would get all the family fortune.

Yet Armstong is completely defeated, whitout even managing to scratch her sister.

ZeroNumerous
2008-05-19, 09:17 PM
Match 1: I have no opinion one way or another, but breakdancing samurai is cooler than Armstrong, so my vote goes to Jin.

Match 2: Who cares? They're both jokers. It doesn't matter who wins.

Match 2: Spike just gets an SMG and fires at where the Green Arrow is, then quickly shifts focus and fires at where he's running to. Spike wins, because he's smart enough to use a gun.

Match 3: Depends on which Connor you're referring to. Connor McCloud at the start of Highlander, or Connor McCloud at the end of Highlander? Because at the beginning, he's just a farm boy with a sword who hasn't suffered his First Death yet. At the end, he's a god who turns away the cloud cover destroying Earth's ecosphere. Either way it's an incredibly one sided match.

Match 4: Jin wins, because he's not a loser.

Match 5: Spike against either a farm boy or a god.. Welp, one sided either way.. But I like Spike more so he wins.

Match 6: Spike versus a super-humanly fast samurai.. Where have I seen this one before? Ah well.. Again, Spike wins because he's smart enough to use the freakin' gun.

Anteros
2008-05-20, 03:38 PM
You may not have noticed it, but in the FA manga, Armstong gets utterly defeated by his older sisterm in the last chapter translated.

source: www.onemanga.com

Note however that her sister has no alchemist powers whatsoever and the unique weapon she uses to win is a regular looking sabre.

The fight was a very serious fight, the winer would get all the family fortune.

Yet Armstong is completely defeated, whitout even managing to scratch her sister.

The entire fight takes place offscreen. And losing on purpose to preserve his sister's pride is exactly the type of thing that Armstrong would do. So honestly I don't think that fight means anything at all.

Bayar
2008-05-21, 02:55 AM
I agree, Spike wins it. Connor may be a martial artist, but if you come close to Spike, he will get his shotgun out :smallbiggrin:

Attilargh
2008-05-21, 03:43 AM
Match 1: I have no opinion one way or another, but breakdancing samurai is cooler than Armstrong, so my vote goes to Jin.
Jin's the guy with glasses and a very direct, normal-looking style, you're thinking of Mugen.