PDA

View Full Version : Daleks Vs The Borg



EvilDMMk3
2008-05-26, 07:46 AM
I'm curious.

New series Daleks, presumably just before the time war so there are still enough of them.

The Borg before their runaway villain decay. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay)

Both sides possess FTL, both sides have time travel to some degree but we will assume that the timey wimeys (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TimeyWimeyBall) are broken so no time travel can be used.

kamikasei
2008-05-26, 08:13 AM
Daleks. They seem to have threatened pretty much the entire universe.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-05-26, 12:28 PM
Daleks never operate in huge numbers, even when they were at their prime. I don't think they have the kind of "rotating frequency" weaponry required to bypass Borg adaption; on the other hand, the Borg would probably be at a loss to deal with a Dalek's armored shell.

In any kind of straightforward battle, I'd give it to the Daleks; if nothing else they could probably just overrun the Borg like saltshaker-shaped tanks.

Kaelaroth
2008-05-26, 12:34 PM
Any direct confrontation I'd give to the Daleks, due to the sheer magnitude of their weaponry, of which they have a large variety thereof. It would also be hard to assimilate them - you'd have to get through the nigh-on indestructible armour plating first.

Warfare... would be harder, but I'd still give it to the Daleks. Considering they managed a proper war with about the most powerful race in the universe (Gallifrey) and nearly came out top, I'd say they could manage the Borg.

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 12:35 PM
Warfare... would be harder, but I'd still give it to the Daleks. Considering they managed a proper war with about the most powerful race in the universe (Gallifrey) and nearly came out top, I'd say they could manage the Borg.

War?
This is not war. This is pest control.

SmartAlec
2008-05-26, 12:37 PM
Although in the original serieses the Daleks' numbers were usually limited, the newer series has done a fair bit to expand on the badassery of the Daleks, showing a small splinter of their battlefleet to hold thousands of Daleks who attacked in formation; and then, the Dalek/Cyberman showdown a series later.

Cybercontroller: "We are five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
Dalek Sec: "FOUR!"
Cybercontroller: "You would destroy the Cybermen with only FOUR Daleks?"
Dalek Sec: ""WE WOULD DES-TROY THE CY-BER-MEN WITH ONE DA-LEK!"

... and then they make good on it.

Plus, the Daleks aren't above a bit of weapons development. I distinctly remember an episode wherein the Daleks, finding themselves on a strange planet where their energy weapons could not function, swiftly retro-engineered some machine guns for their battle chassis. And Star Trek: First Contact has shown us what machine guns can do to Borg.

Solo
2008-05-26, 12:45 PM
Exterminate! EXTERMINATE!

Don Julio Anejo
2008-05-26, 12:49 PM
DA-LEKS.

Because they're so much cooler.

Seraph
2008-05-26, 01:10 PM
retro-engineered some machine guns for their battle chassis. And Star Trek: First Contact has shown us what machine guns can do to Borg.

not machine gun. force-fields shaped like machine gun bullets. big difference.

Turcano
2008-05-26, 04:23 PM
Cybercontroller: "We are five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
Dalek Sec: "FOUR!"
Cybercontroller: "You would destroy the Cybermen with only FOUR Daleks?"
Dalek Sec: ""WE WOULD DES-TROY THE CY-BER-MEN WITH ONE DA-LEK!"

Dalek Sec: "YOU ARE SU-PER-I-OR IN ON-LY ONE RES-PECT."
Cyberman: "What is that?"
Dalek Sec: "YOU ARE BET-TER AT DY-ING!"

I think that's the only time I've ever heard Daleks engage in trash talk.

GoC
2008-05-26, 05:10 PM
Although in the original serieses the Daleks' numbers were usually limited, the newer series has done a fair bit to expand on the badassery of the Daleks, showing a small splinter of their battlefleet to hold thousands of Daleks who attacked in formation; and then, the Dalek/Cyberman showdown a series later.

Well I once saw it calculated that there were roughly 130 million borg on each borg cube.

puppyavenger
2008-05-26, 05:41 PM
Well I once saw it calculated that there were roughly 130 million borg on each borg cube.

while, seeing as borgs can be killed..lets say about 1/5 as easily as cyber-men, thats 130 daleks per cube, or they can just blow it up from the outside.

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 06:49 PM
Dalek Sec: "YOU ARE SU-PER-I-OR IN ON-LY ONE RES-PECT."
Cyberman: "What is that?"
Dalek Sec: "YOU ARE BET-TER AT DY-ING!"

I think that's the only time I've ever heard Daleks engage in trash talk.

And waddya know. They're superior at that too.

GoC
2008-05-26, 09:42 PM
while, seeing as borgs can be killed..lets say about 1/5 as easily as cyber-men, thats 130 daleks per cube, or they can just blow it up from the outside.

Are you sure that wasn't just an idle boast or special circumstances?

GrassyGnoll
2008-05-26, 09:56 PM
Daleks are less tainted by fleshy organs. They would exterminate. EXTERMINATE!

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-26, 10:34 PM
I know nothing about the Daleks but...I admit, I have some trouble taking giant salt shakers seriously. What's their track record?

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 10:55 PM
I know nothing about the Daleks but...I admit, I have some trouble taking giant salt shakers seriously. What's their track record?

Not bad.
You know, millions dead, earth enslaved a couple of time, crushed the Cybermen handily, the usual big time villian stuff.

SmartAlec
2008-05-26, 11:05 PM
Daleks are pretty advanced, technologically; at some point they develop time-travel technology, which probably explains why they gave even the Time Lords serious trouble.

Lady Tialait
2008-05-26, 11:18 PM
Daleks had no problem with human....borg did.....Daleks have no mercy, Borg just do what they do for the frag of it.


Let's go with the xenophobic awesomeness that is Daleks....Exterminate! Exterminate!

Athaniar
2008-05-27, 04:49 AM
Somehow, I have a hard time seeing the borg assimilating a dalek. Or doing anything else to harm it. So I'll just go along with the rest and say EX-TER-MI-NATE!

EX-TER-MI-NATE! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAk2HjHSGbo)

Mr. Scaly
2008-05-27, 07:40 AM
Hmm...Cybermen are kind of like Borg, right?

Yeah, the Daleks would win.

Arioch
2008-05-27, 07:49 AM
I know nothing about the Daleks but...I admit, I have some trouble taking giant salt shakers seriously. What's their track record?

Well, being near-indestructible doesn't hurt.

Eldan
2008-05-27, 09:33 AM
Dalek vs. Borg seems rather unfair. The borg have no chance. Wouldn't Borg vs. Cybermen be a better setup? They are very similiar races.
On the other hand, there the cybermen would have no chance, I guess. (Don't know much about borg, except how they look)

GoC
2008-05-27, 09:45 AM
Well, being near-indestructible doesn't hurt.

I'm curious: Do you think Federation phasers would hurt them?

Arioch
2008-05-27, 10:02 AM
I'm curious: Do you think Federation phasers would hurt them?

I'm not sure. I mean, cyberman lasers don't work, and nor, as far as I know, do their own ray guns (except in example 4 below). I've only seen the new Daleks at work, though. In the New Series, the only things that have managed to kill Daleks, or been said to do so, are:

1) A delta-ray that wipes out all life in a massive radius.
2) The powers of the time vortex concentrated into one human, who then preceded to disintegrate a Dalek fleet and resurrect everyone they killed.
3) Being sucked into the void between universes (and even then they may not be dead, since it's been shown they can fly through a vacuum without harm, so they might just be very bored).
4) A sustained onslaught of dozens of adapted Dalek rays, concentrated on one Dalek for about twenty seconds. Only then did it die.

Basically, to destroy Daleks en masse you normally need some sort of cataclysm. One lone Dalek could, with time, quite easily wipe out the Earth's population.

How powerful, relatively, are phasers?

EDIT: In answer ot the actual question, since before the Last Great Time War the Daleks numbered many millions at the very least, and they had time-travel technology, and were all super-intelligent, and, as I said, were nearly indestructable, I think they would probably win.

Indon
2008-05-27, 12:13 PM
I think a lot depends on if the Borg, during their long, losing war, can assimilate a Dalek. Just one will do.

That would give the Borg a huge advantage, and along with it, probably a fighting chance.

WoodenTable
2008-05-28, 04:15 AM
I don't know anything about Dalek ships, so I can't comment on those. Still, I think this would simply turn into the longest, most gut-wrenchingly drawn-out war ever. Observe:

1) Borg: We are the Borg. You will be assimilated.
1a) Borg drones fire on the Daleks.
2) The Dalek shields block the phasers.
2a) Daleks: EX-TER-MIN-ATE! EX-TER-MIN-ATE!
3) The Daleks fire on the borg drones.
4) Fifty drones are taken out.
5) The Borg adapt, rendering their personal shields immune to Dalek beams. (They seem about as low/high-powered as Phasers, so that's no big stretch)
6) The Borg fire ineffectually at the Daleks.
7) The Daleks fire ineffectually at the Borg.
8) The Daleks move in closer to face-plunger the Borg drones.
9) Drones try to assimilate Daleks. Their hands are disintegrated.
10) The Borg drones figure out that they should turn and walk away after a few die via face-plunger.
11) Either race can be outrun by jogging. Thus begins an endless series of the slowest chase scenes ever conceived.

SmartAlec
2008-05-28, 04:22 AM
Not sure what a Dalek's top speed is; they seem to move slowly, but at the same time manage to keep pace with humans running flat-out.

EvilDMMk3
2008-05-28, 04:24 AM
11) Either race can be outrun by jogging. Thus begins an endless series of the slowest chase scenes ever conceived.

Whilst I do not agree with all of your previous statements this would be pute hilarity to watch.

Turcano
2008-05-28, 04:56 AM
I agree; that would be one of the funniest things ever.

Arioch
2008-05-28, 06:25 AM
I don't know anything about Dalek ships, so I can't comment on those. Still, I think this would simply turn into the longest, most gut-wrenchingly drawn-out war ever. Observe:

1) Borg: We are the Borg. You will be assimilated.
1a) Borg drones fire on the Daleks.
2) The Dalek shields block the phasers.
2a) Daleks: EX-TER-MIN-ATE! EX-TER-MIN-ATE!
3) The Daleks fire on the borg drones.
4) Fifty drones are taken out.
5) The Borg adapt, rendering their personal shields immune to Dalek beams. (They seem about as low/high-powered as Phasers, so that's no big stretch)
6) The Borg fire ineffectually at the Daleks.
7) The Daleks fire ineffectually at the Borg.


It depends on whether the Daleks can adapt to the Borg's, uh, adaptation. If they can, maybe by changing frequency or something (I don't know the technobabble behind Borg shields) then they would win.
Plus, by the looks of the New Series 2 finale, the Daleks have technology able to break the boundaries between universes and open holes to the Void. They might be able to use that as a superweapon.

GoC
2008-05-28, 10:07 AM
I agree; that would be one of the funniest things ever.
Agreed.:smallcool:

Arioch: Borg also have similar inter-dimensional tech and in First Contact they adapted to the changing phaser frequencies rendering further changes ineffective.

Cybren
2008-05-28, 12:38 PM
Is this all of the borg vs all of the daleks? Because i'm pretty sure any of the weapons on a cube itself would disintegrate a dalek.

Arioch
2008-05-28, 01:30 PM
@ GoC: Ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

@ Cybren: If the Borg get their ships, so do the Daleks. I'm not sure what a Dalek ship can do, but considering what an individual Dalek grunt can do, I imagine it's quite impressive. Unless the Daleks decided they didn't need super-ships because they were so hard to kill anyway. Is this discussed in the old series? Can anyone clarify?

SmartAlec
2008-05-28, 01:56 PM
@ GoC: Ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

@ Cybren: If the Borg get their ships, so do the Daleks. I'm not sure what a Dalek ship can do, but considering what an individual Dalek grunt can do, I imagine it's quite impressive. Unless the Daleks decided they didn't need super-ships because they were so hard to kill anyway. Is this discussed in the old series? Can anyone clarify?

The Sylvester McCoy episode Remembrance of the Daleks credited a Dalek ship with enough firepower to destroy Earth, and I think the surviving Dalek mothership in the new series is described as being able to do so as well.

kamikasei
2008-05-28, 02:07 PM
We certainly know that they have, or had, ships; we see them at one point in the new series, and the Doctor describes seeing them burning in the Time War - I couldn't swear, but I think he says there were millions.

comicshorse
2008-05-28, 07:30 PM
Send In The Heavy Weapons Daleks !!!

Lady Tialait
2008-05-28, 08:10 PM
Borg: We are Borg, resistance is futile you will be assimilated!
Dalek: You will obey, we are superior, exterminate EXTERMINATE!
Borg: We are Borg, resistance is futile you will be assimilated!
Dalek: We are superior, exterminate EXTERMINATE!

Narrator: And so began the three million year old yelling match.

Lord_Asmodeus
2008-05-28, 09:28 PM
DALEKS AND CYBERMEN! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYARnv2FFso)

I'd go with Cybermen over Borg myself, and given that the Daleks were wholly capable of killing all 5 million cybermen with 1 Dalek... I've gotta give this to the Daleks, hands down.

Incidentally, the Cult of Skaro are awesome.

Eakin
2008-05-29, 12:02 AM
I know nothing about the Daleks but...I admit, I have some trouble taking giant salt shakers seriously. What's their track record?
You wouldn't think they could be terrifying, and indeed they were campy and not so terrifying by the time the old series went off the air, but the new series has done a good job making them a legitimately terrifying menace.

Seriously though, the Daleks have been a consistent threat to the Doctor for 30+ seasons, and the Time Lords had to wipe out their entire existence to ALMOST get rid of them. The Borg vs. The Doctor? Two episode arc, tops, and they're gone.

I will give the Borg an edge over the Cybermen, but the Daleks will EXTERMINATE their asses without breaking stride. Err, roll?

Arioch
2008-05-29, 03:14 AM
Borg: We are Borg, resistance is futile you will be assimilated!
Dalek: You will obey, we are superior, exterminate EXTERMINATE!
Borg: We are Borg, resistance is futile you will be assimilated!
Dalek: We are superior, exterminate EXTERMINATE!

Narrator: And so began the three million year old yelling match.

It's rare that I laugh out loud at something I read on a forum, but this was one of those times. Classic.

The Doctor and the Federation could just leave them to their own devices - they'd be too busy arguing to be a threat. :smallbiggrin: