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View Full Version : Death vs. Tzeentch



chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 10:13 AM
Okay, with all the Warhammer vs threads, I figured, why not?
Death From Discworld vs The warp god of hope, magic, and insanely overcomplicated plans.
3 rounds:
Round 1:
Warhammer's universe
Round 2:
Discworld
Round 3:
Eberron.

My money's on Death when he's on his home turf. Theory of Narrative Theory Of Narrative Causality means that, in an epic fight, Good wins most of the time. And compared to almost anyone in 40k, death is on the freaking cover of the BoED. He has a good chance anywhere else too. Death is even more fundamental a force than his opponent's gimmicks, and he's about as tied to death as you could want.

Who you got?

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-26, 10:17 AM
Does Death get the luggage or friends? If so, he always wins.

DarthArminius
2008-05-26, 10:34 AM
I don't know.... Death is pretty powerful. She's the last figure to enter the After life in Sandman.

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-26, 11:11 AM
I don't know.... Death is pretty powerful. She's the last figure to enter the After life in Sandman.

Not THAT Death, we're talking about DISCWORLD Death.

DarthArminius
2008-05-26, 11:15 AM
Oh sorry. Now I have no idea.

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 11:39 AM
Oh sorry. Now I have no idea.

Then read Discworld.
Trust me, you won't regret it.

Zenos
2008-05-26, 12:01 PM
I put my money on Death, he is a figure from a series where ridiculous is normal. If it was more sombre, it would be some kind of draw. Tzeench cannot kill Death (except if it is a strange aeon[/necronomicon reference]), whilst Death would have to destroy every last vestige of hope, magic, change and ambition to destroy Tzeench, and if I know Discworld Death, he isn't going to prematurely take people's lives just for the sake of winning a battle against a being that cannot destroy him.

LBO
2008-05-26, 02:46 PM
Mr Teatime came up with plan to kill Death, on his own turf. We didn't see that one in action, but the ridiculously esoteric plan he conceived to kill the Hogfather left Death completely powerless to stop him. It's not a huge step to assume that his plan to kill Death would have been just as effective. Mr Teatime is a cracked psychopath with a funny eye.

Tzeentch is the god of ridiculously complicated, esoteric plans.

These vs threads are just getting increasingly ridiculous. Next it'll be "how many Space Marines could storm Mordor" or some stupid ****.

Arioch
2008-05-26, 03:03 PM
These vs threads are just getting increasingly ridiculous. Next it'll be "how many Space Marines could storm Mordor" or some stupid ****.

Give it a week.

puppyavenger
2008-05-26, 06:28 PM
Give it a week.

aand there it is
to the OP
1. Tzeetch, Death gets edged out by all the competition and condiering the average imperial mindset, he'd get replaced in a nano
2. Eventualy Tzeetch wins. a few years before Great A'tun dies of old age (I wonder what death would look like to here, if she died during the events of Reaper man)
3. Tzeetch

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 06:46 PM
aand there it is
to the OP
1. Tzeetch, Death gets edged out by all the competition and condiering the average imperial mindset, he'd get replaced in a nano
2. Eventualy Tzeetch wins. a few years before Great A'tun dies of old age (I wonder what death would look like to here, if she died during the events of Reaper man)
3. Tzeetch

Ah, but in Eric, we see that death outlives the universe, even when it runs down to nothing at all but him and, shortly thereafter, a paperclip. Once everything but Death dies, Tzeench is dead. Also, death is WAY more common in Warhammer 40k than Hope. He's got way more people believing in him.

puppyavenger
2008-05-26, 06:51 PM
Ah, but in Eric, we see that death outlives the universe, even when it runs down to nothing at all but him and, shortly thereafter, a paperclip. Once everything but Death dies, Tzeench is dead. Also, death is WAY more common in Warhammer 40k than Hope. He's got way more people believing in him.

Yes, thats why I say replaced, how many people do you think see death as how he acts? He'd either get replaced by some Saint or or a elder horror.

LBO
2008-05-26, 06:52 PM
(...the Nightbringer...)

puppyavenger
2008-05-26, 06:54 PM
(...the Nightbringer...)

I'd pay to see that fight from a safe distance( the next universe, say.

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 06:55 PM
Yes, thats why I say replaced, how many people do you think see death as how he acts? He'd either get replaced by some Saint or or a elder horror.

Hey, people on the Disc don't see him as he is either, besides magic users, Vimes, and cats. We saw in Reaper Man the death that comes from people's conceptions of Death. He killed it. With an ordinary Scythe. You don't try to replace Death for any job other than Death of Rats if you're smart.

Guildorn Tanaleth
2008-05-26, 07:29 PM
Death is a facet of Azrael, the Angel of Death, to whom the entire 40k universe is ultimately subservient. Death wins. Death always wins.

chiasaur11
2008-05-26, 07:40 PM
Death is a facet of Azrael, the Angel of Death, to whom the entire 40k universe is ultimately subservient. Death wins. Death always wins.

And, with Discworld's Death, I'm fairly O.K. with that.

Dumbledore lives
2008-05-26, 07:42 PM
I really don't understand how Death could lose, it's freaking DEATH. You can't kill Death, and he will live/unlive longer than anyone else possibly could. Even against gods he would still win. You can't beat Death, you can run from him, but eventually, he will find you.

Vikingkingq
2008-05-27, 01:43 AM
Heck, Death could win just by waiting. Tzeentch requires living sentient beings to feel hope, ambition, curiosity, a desire for change, etc. Death doesn't. All Death has to do is wait for the last sentient being to die, and Tzeentch ceases to exist.

tyckspoon
2008-05-27, 02:31 AM
Death cannot destroy Tzeentch. Taking out a universal concept like that is Against The Rules, outside of Disc Death's jurisdiction; that's a job for the Big Death, and he'll only do it when it's time to close up shop on the entire universe. (Although he did once kill rock and roll..probably because it had acquired a localized personification/locus/thingy. And Discworld Death has absorbed a little humanity and has been known to bend The Rules from time to time.) Conversely, Tzeentch cannot directly act against Death with any effect, short of perhaps initiating a universal stasis that would completely end the process of death.. and all other change and thought, so that's a suicidally hat-losing plan.

I think, ultimately, Tzeentch wins the waiting game. Because Tzeentch is a universal concept/being, while Discworld's Death is simply the Death of the Discworld. When all life on the Discworld ends, so does that particular Death. Meanwhile, there can still be life elsewhere in the universe to continue generating Tzeentch. 'course, he still loses out to Azrael eventually, as everything does.

Edit: That's on the Disc and related universe, of course. I've no clue how Death will work if he's transplanted into a different setting with, presumably, different Rules.

LBO
2008-05-27, 03:13 AM
I really don't understand how Death could lose, it's freaking DEATH. You can't kill Death, and he will live/unlive longer than anyone else possibly could. Even against gods he would still win. You can't beat Death, you can run from him, but eventually, he will find you.

Death is a facet of Azrael, the Angel of Death, to whom the entire 40k universe is ultimately subservient. Death wins. Death always wins.
Read Hogfather again.