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Nemoricus
2008-05-26, 11:43 AM
Fairly simple. If you had to give a Dungeon Master a class, what level would they be, what skills would they require, and what feats would they use? Use existing classes for this one.

Alternatively, design a class for a Dungeon Master. This can be treated in two ways. One, design the class for a player to use. Two, design it for an in-game Dungeon Master, who literally is master of a dungeon.

Have fun!

ThePhantom
2008-05-26, 11:59 AM
You know that the lowest level for this would be fifty.

The Rose Dragon
2008-05-26, 01:05 PM
Wizard with Epic Spellcasting.

Ta-da. You can even have a spell "Rocks Fall, Everybody Dies" with little effort.

Bitzeralisis
2008-05-26, 02:02 PM
Level 2000 Epic Wizard with Epic Spellcasting and Divine Rank 500.

That should do it.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-26, 02:35 PM
Let's see...

If I wanted to make someone who could build and maintain a dungeon - wait, I already did that for a game once; eh, I'll rebuild from scratch.

Could do it with either a Sorcerer or a Wizard; I'll run Wizard for now, and keep it Core, too - don't even need to PrC out.

Relevant Feats: Craft Wondrous Item (for traps), Quicken Spell; Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus(Conjuration) useful but not required, as is Spell Focus (Abjuration), Greater Spell Focus (Abjuration), and Improved Initiative.
Relevant Skills: Knowledge(The Planes), Craft(Traps)
Relevant spells: Charm Monster (duh), Tongues, Wall of Stone, Stone Shape, Fabricate, Wall of Iron, Dispel Magic (no, not the Greater version - not needed for what I'm doing, although it is useful), Disintegrate, Magic Circle Against [choice of monster alignment], Illusory Wall, Dimensional Anchor, Mage's Private Sanctum, Permanency, Dismissal (or Banishment), Mind Blank, Greater Planar Binding, Moment of Prescience. Gate, Shapechange, and Dimensional Lock are useful but not required.

There - we can do this with a Wiz-15 or 16 without much difficulty.

Greater Planar Binding gets you all manner of elementals and outsiders to do your bidding (guard this dungeon; but also get outsiders with Clerical casting for Forbiddance and the like to stop would-be dimension hoppers from simply skipping your walls). Moment of Prescience deals with the opposed Charisma check (although you will want some other stuff in support of that - a Cloak of Charisma and a Circlet of Persuasion), and when you lose the opposed Charisma check (do this right, and you're just using the nat-1 clause) you do a Quickened Dispel Magic on the Called Critter (to remove the Dimensional Anchor) and then a Dismissal (or Banishment). Disintegrate removes big chunks of stone from the mountain you're putting your dungeon in, Wall of Stone puts them back (Disintegrate gives you 10 foot cubes - you'll often want smaller than that), Stone Shape does the basic work, and Fabricate does detail work. Illusory Wall gets you some basic pit traps (and hidden doors), too. Craft Wondrous Item is what you use when crafting Magic traps, and Fabricate means you can make mechanical traps basically instantly. Charm Monster (in combination with Moment of Prescience, again, if you need to get them to do stuff they normally wouldn't) gives you minions from the local area to do your bidding, and Tongues takes care of any language barriers.

And there's a lot of room in the build for other stuff, too.

Riva
2008-05-26, 02:57 PM
Plus three cool points to Jack, for actually answering the question and doing so with style.


Really mate, Wizard is about it as far as I can see. Change up the race or specific casting for different fluff, maybe crazy hive mind dwarves to really throw people off...


Actually I think I like that one.

Roderick_BR
2008-05-26, 03:03 PM
If you mean the owner of a dungeon (like that warlock from Dungons & Denizens webcomic), something with a few spellcaster levels, and several levels in artificer. Maybe even some rogue levels, just to give him a bit more experience with traps.

If you mean the Dungeon Master, the being that controls the world, you could use a 1st level teen commoner, with the flaw Addiction (Mountain Dew) :smallwink:

Hmm.. the DM from the old D&D cartoon was very powerful, but due to some sort of code of honor, he never did things by himself, always sending others to do things in his place, and only once he did use his powers to battle another creature that was MORE powerful than him (the DM's parents, maybe?)

The Necroswanso
2008-05-26, 06:53 PM
Level 2000 Epic Wizard with Epic Spellcasting and Divine Rank 500.

That should do it.

Not to mention Vengeful Gaze of God at will, no save, and immune to the recoil damage.

Jack_Simth
2008-05-26, 08:28 PM
Plus three cool points to Jack, for actually answering the question and doing so with style.


Really mate, Wizard is about it as far as I can see. Change up the race or specific casting for different fluff, maybe crazy hive mind dwarves to really throw people off...


Actually I think I like that one.
The Wizard can pull it off very effectively at the lowest level, while playing strict Core (including putting monsters in that are a higher CR than the building Wizard...).

However, others can too.

The Sorcerer can pull it off a level or two later than the Wizard can - and once the Sorcerer gets to the point where the Sorcerer can do it, the Sorcerer can do it faster (more spell slots) and more effectively (better Charisma score for bargaining with Bound critters and convincing Charmed critters to do things they wouldn't normally).

A Cleric-17 with the Charm and either Animal or Scalykind domain can pull it off too - biggest differences are Shapechanging into a Beholder for the at-will Disintegrate for digging, having to Craft things the long way, and using the Planar Ally line rather than the Planar Binding line (also, the opposed Charisma checks are a lot more difficult on Charmed minions, for the lack of Moment of Prescience). You can also just Charm an actual beholder, and skip the Shapechange ... but the Charm domain isn't Core. Still, Charm Monster can be duplicated with Miracle, and Clerics do get the Symbol of Persuasion.

The Wizard's just the best at it; he's not the only option.

It can be done at even lower levels if you're willing to put the dungeon in something other than rock, and not guard it as well - A Celestial Dire Badger from Summon Monster III (or a regular Dire Badger from Summon Nature's Ally II) leaves a useable tunnel in anything softer than solid rock. You'll need to do actual crafting, and Charm some (probably humanoid, unless you're a Druid, in which case they're animals) minions, but you can make an honest dungeon as early as about 5th level (wizard, possibly Cleric) or even 3rd (Druid).

If you're really hard-core and don't care how long it takes, you can do it at 1st level... if you do all the work yourself (get a pick...), and use Handle Animal to get critters to guard the place.

Edit:
You know, the scary part is, with a small handful of exceptions, the stuff that's on the required list for a Wizard to pull this off are going to be things most Wizards of that level will pick up anyway... I guess "A Wizard Did It" is actually fairly sensible this time around.

arkanis
2008-05-26, 11:45 PM
Level 60+ anything with a Divine rank 20+. Let's you do whatever you want.