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View Full Version : Hate movies everyone loves? (or vise versa?)



lopanvsjburton
2008-05-28, 06:33 AM
Just wanted to know if there we're any movies that everyone loves that you've though was... not so excellent. Hated movies you like also apply. But if anyone says they hated Titanic, most people hate it so its not valid here.

I hate Jurassic Park!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone thinks I'm wierd but come on, it's Westworld (far superior) with dinosaurs!

I kinda liked (not loved) Batman Forever. It's camp yes but I still think it's unfairly paired with the dreck Batman & Robin (just mentioning that makes me feel dirty, srry for bringing it up)

Turcano
2008-05-28, 06:40 AM
I hated The Lord of the Rings. I saw the first one and didn't bother to see the other two, and from what I've heard about the other two, I would have hated them more.

Hairb
2008-05-28, 06:49 AM
Somewhere in a church basement near you...

"Hi, I'm Hairb, and I can't stop hating Donny Darko."
"Hi, Hairb!"

Serpentine
2008-05-28, 06:55 AM
Hrm. I tend to like movies everyone else hates (I... can't actually think of any right now, though :smallconfused:). There aren't really many I hate... I don't particularly like Serenity. It was okay, it was fun, it had some good lines... but all those lines seemed so damn artificial. It was like, "Quick, we've gone too long without something for the fans to quote ad infinitum! Say something cool!" And it is still "hicks in space", no matter what anyone says.
Another one is Highlander. No, it is not so bad it's good. It's just so bad it's bad. A Scot as an Egyptian from Spain was kinda so bad it's good, but was still mostly just bad. On the other hand, I quite liked Waterworld... <.<
Oh! My dad bought me Legend (I gave him a list of movies I wanted. He lost it. He gave me one I wanted, one I already owned, and two I'd never heard of). It's... pretty bad. Tim Curry makes a pretty good demonguy, but anyone else get the feeling that the horns were overcompensating for something?

Arioch
2008-05-28, 07:03 AM
Superman Returns. Most people I asked really like it, and most reviews I've seen are very positive, but I just though it was...samey. Put it like this:

Lex Luthor comes up with a evil plot (oh noes!) involving kryptonite (oh noes!) to (basically) take over the world (oh noes!). Superman comes back to foil the plot (hurrah!) stupidly falls for the kryptonite-based trap as usual, and almost dies (oh noes!). Then he regains his powers (hurrah!) foils the plot (hurrah!) stops Lex Luthor,and saves the world. Insert same-old fight scenes and tedious romantic subplot to taste. I never expected any of that! What an original plot for a Superman story!

I understand that lots of people like this film, though, so I'd be interested in hearing counter-arguments.

bosssmiley
2008-05-28, 07:04 AM
My Heresy (I hate, they love):

"Spiderman" (1-3) and most other superhero movies
The "Matrix" sequels
"Equilibrium"
"Kingdom of Heaven"
"Gladiator" (the historian in me screams "Wrong! WRONG! WRONG!!!")
Shyamalan - omnia opera
Ceon Bros - omnia opera (exceptions: "Oh Brother" & "Big Lebowski")
"Princess Bride"
"Princess Mononoke", "Nausicaa", etc.
"From Hell"
"Serenity"
"Donnie Darko"
Self consciously 'indie' films ("Little Miss Sunshine", "Juno", "What's Eating Gilbert Grape", etc.)

The World's Idiocy (I love, they hate):

"2010"
"Troy"
"Patton"
"Constantine"
"Superman Returns"
"My Neighbour Totoro"
"Muppet Treasure Island"

Echowinds
2008-05-28, 07:15 AM
"My Neighbour Totoro"
"Patton"

To my understanding, these two films are well-loved by the general masses.

lopanvsjburton
2008-05-28, 07:18 AM
"2010"


Ah, I must disagree. See while it's all well and good for some people to have a ridiculous pacing problem for me I get bored, and then frustrated, when seeing a spinning space station in a 15 minute shot while some well known classical music comes to pollute the scene further.


But thats just me :smallbiggrin:

Jibar
2008-05-28, 07:22 AM
My Heresy (I hate, they love):

"Gladiator" (the historian in me screams "Wrong! WRONG! WRONG!!!")

The World's Idiocy (I love, they hate):

"Muppet Treasure Island"

Okay, Gladiator I do not understand at all. Especially considering you're able to shut up your historian long enough to watch Troy.
I wasn't aware people hated Muppet Treasure Island though.
*Looks at his DVD collection of every Muppet movie*
Hmmm...

bosssmiley
2008-05-28, 07:31 AM
Ah, I must disagree. See while it's all well and good for some people to have a ridiculous pacing problem for me I get bored, and then frustrated, when seeing a spinning space station in a 15 minute shot while some well known classical music comes to pollute the scene further.

But thats just me :smallbiggrin:

I think you're thinking of "2001". I'm talking the anvilicious '80s sequel where the humans of the US-Sov joint mission are totally forgettable, but the monoliths have their crowning moment of awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrowningMomentOfAwesome).

"All these worlds are yours, except Europa." :smallcool:

Finn Solomon
2008-05-28, 07:54 AM
At the risk of sounding not very cool, I really like Daredevil. I do! I thought Ben Affleck and Colin Farrell nailed their roles perfectly, and Jennifer Garner and Michael Clarke Duncan are two of my most favourite actors. I might be a little biased, but I enjoyed the movie. Can't understand why everyone else, including Twisted Toyfare Theater, loathes it with the fury of a million exploding suns.

SurlySeraph
2008-05-28, 08:00 AM
My Heresy (I hate, they love):

"Spiderman" (1-3) and most other superhero movies
The "Matrix" sequels
"Equilibrium"
"Kingdom of Heaven"
"Gladiator" (the historian in me screams "Wrong! WRONG! WRONG!!!")
Shyamalan - omnia opera
Ceon Bros - omnia opera (exceptions: "Oh Brother" & "Big Lebowski")
"Princess Bride"
"Princess Mononoke", "Nausicaa", etc.
"From Hell"
"Serenity"
"Donnie Darko"
Self consciously 'indie' films ("Little Miss Sunshine", "Juno", "What's Eating Gilbert Grape", etc.)

The World's Idiocy (I love, they hate):

"2010"
"Troy"
"Patton"
"Constantine"
"Superman Returns"
"My Neighbour Totoro"
"Muppet Treasure Island"

Wait. You can't deal with the historical inaccuracies in Gladiator, but you *can* deal with all the historical, mythological, and laws-of-physics-ical inaccuracies in Troy?

What kind of nut hates "Patton"? That is a great movie!

I can understand hating the Matrix sequels and Equilibrium. But I don't get how anyone can possibly hate "The Princess Bride," (well, unless people around you quote it every ten seconds).

Finally, I'm very happy to see that I'm not the only person in the world who hates self-conscious indy films. I don't watch movies to be drowned in quirkiness, I watch movies to be entertained. Just reading the plot summary of "Lars and the Real Girl" sent me into paroxysms of rage.

Hairb
2008-05-28, 08:26 AM
At the risk of sounding not very cool, I really like Daredevil. I do! I thought Ben Affleck and Colin Farrell nailed their roles perfectly, and Jennifer Garner and Michael Clarke Duncan are two of my most favourite actors. I might be a little biased, but I enjoyed the movie. Can't understand why everyone else, including Twisted Toyfare Theater, loathes it with the fury of a million exploding suns.

Daredevil is a fine film on the proviso that, and I will not budge on this, you do not think about it. Not even for one second. Even now, people are thinking about this movie, I can feel it. I can feel their disgust.

Hairb
2008-05-28, 08:30 AM
My Heresy (I hate, they love):

Ceon Bros - omnia opera (exceptions: "Oh Brother" & "Big Lebowski")


I must say I find the Coen Brothers a pretty reliable source of entertainment. What didn't you like about Fargo?

rubakhin
2008-05-28, 08:40 AM
I also hated Donnie Darko.

Off the top of my head? Umm. The Dreamers. Chocolat. Anything by Fassbinder, especially Querelle, probably because it was my favorite book at the time and the cast went and butchered it. Woyzeck (although it had a few great moments). Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. The Russian film Brother, although I think it's repellent on purpose. Sokurov's film Mother and Son I found alienating and off-putting, but I felt really bad about that one.

Ossian
2008-05-28, 09:00 AM
My Heresy (I hate, they love):

The World's Idiocy (I love, they hate):

"2010"
"Troy"
"Patton"
"Constantine"
"Superman Returns"
"My Neighbour Totoro"
"Muppet Treasure Island"

Tell the truth, you just wanted to make the titles look like a little pyramid, didn`t you? I suggest you elect 201 as your first movie. Set in the Roman Empire, it details the appearance of Obelisks throughout the empire....:smallwink:

My pick? Let me see... yes! 300!
I understand the historian in me was just vomiting, but still...THIS IS SPARTA! POOR ACTING! NO PLOT!! KICK IN THE GUT!

Mr.Silver
2008-05-28, 09:31 AM
The Matrix (yes, the first one)
Akira
Spiderman 2 (I wasn't particularly fond of the first one either, but this is the one everyone raves about)

Some more that I can't be bothered think of at the moment. May update later.

DomaDoma
2008-05-28, 09:49 AM
I loved Dragonheart, which, if the offhand comments of many, many movie critics are anything to go by, is a sign of the apocalypse. I wish they actually posted reviews of movies released before the new millennium so I would know what, precisely, they were complaining about.

Ozymandias
2008-05-28, 09:54 AM
Akira, definitely.

No Country for Old Men, although I really enjoyed Miller's Crossing.

EvilElitest
2008-05-28, 10:02 AM
only movies?

300, beowulf, 3:10 to yuma, 21, Troy, Return of the King, kingdom of Heaven, Juno, Little miss sunshine, Braveheart, The Passion, ug



My pick? Let me see... yes! 300!
I understand the historian in me was just vomiting, but still...THIS IS SPARTA! POOR ACTING! NO PLOT!! KICK IN THE GUT!
Bad directing, bad fighting, uninteresting character, and some nasty elements Cough* racist* cough

from
EE

Tengu
2008-05-28, 12:46 PM
I didn't like Batman Begins - although I haven't seen it all, just most of it on the TV. In my opinion, Batman had only one good movie - the first one.


I loved Dragonheart, which, if the offhand comments of many, many movie critics are anything to go by, is a sign of the apocalypse. I wish they actually posted reviews of movies released before the new millennium so I would know what, precisely, they were complaining about.

I liked it a lot too. Sean Connery as a dragon = win.
Other movies I liked but people seemed not to were Dark City and 300.

RTGoodman
2008-05-28, 01:05 PM
Apparently people here have completely opposite taste in movies from most of the people I know. So, most of the "everyone likes but I hate" are based on my own friends' reactions.

They Like, I Hate:
-300 - For the longest time, I thought I was the only person in the world that didn't like it. The above posters got most of the reasons.
-Saw, Hostel, The Descent, or other modern "horror" (or usually, "torture porn") movie. It doesn't help that basically everyone I know loves them. The Hills Have Eyes (the new one) gets special recognition, though, because I liked it quite a bit.
-Deathproof (from Grindhouse) - I like Tarantino quite a bit, but I thought this was the most boring piece of crap I've ever sat through. Planet Terror was much better, and managed to actually pull off the "campy" feel they were going for, rather than making me sit through thirty minutes of women talking around a table.
-Anything with Will Ferrell. Anchorman, Semi-Pro, Blades of Glory, that Nascar one, etc. To me, every single movie by him (except maybe Stranger Than Fiction, which I didn't see, and Elf, which is bearable) is the same, and they're all terrible. Especially considering half of the people I've ever met apparently think it's hilarious for them to quote those movies constantly.
-Napoleon Dynamite - I know the world was split 50/50 on this one, but I thought it was stupid, not revolutionary. To me, it was a movie supposedly about nerds, but marketed to the complete opposite crowd.

They Hate, I Like:
-Rambo (the new one) - I know it's not deep, meaningful film, but for an action movie it was awesome.
-Juno - A lot of people thought it was in the same crowd of pretentious indie films as Sideways and Little Miss Sunshine, but I didn't actually mind Juno.
-Joe Dirt - I hate David Spade, but this movie is like the white trash, comedy Forrest Gump. It comes on Comedy Central every month or so, and I watch it every time. Super Troopers is the same way, but more people I've talked to liked it.

Tengu
2008-05-28, 01:32 PM
Another movie everyone liked but I didn't: Ben-Hur. According to most people, it's a deep and epic story. For me, it was very shallow, extremely anvilicious about Christianity, had characters acting like idiots way too often, and on top of that the famous chariot racing scene was boring and dragged-out. How come it won 11 Oscars is beyond me.

loves_to_laugh
2008-05-28, 01:46 PM
I will just come out and say it....

I strongly disliked Sweeney Todd.

The music was good and I like the actors, but I am extremely creeped out by the actually story of this movie. I mean human meat-pies? It almost makes me want to become a vegitarian. (I mean almost. I can't very well give up bacon!) Of course I do have to say I am a bit biased because I hate horror movies (except the Final Destination movies oddly enough).

Hoggy
2008-05-28, 01:50 PM
I hate Juno, everyone I know seems to love that.

I liked the Blai With project, which seems to pick up a lot of flak. Sure, the story was crap in places ("Hur hur, I thought a FREAKING MAP was useless so I threw it away!"), but I quite liked. Creepier than CGI horror films.

Haruki-kun
2008-05-28, 01:56 PM
I HATED..... High School. Freakin'. Musical.

I like a few of the songs, but having three installments of this franchise is a bit too much if you ask me.

kamikasei
2008-05-28, 01:59 PM
"2010"

Okay, it's not a great artistic feat like 2001, and it's a bit anvilicious on the politics. However, the people in it face problems and solve them intelligently, which is a big plus for me in sci-fi; and more importantly, the scene with Dr. Chandra and HAL always moves me deeply. Poor machine...

"Thank you for telling me the truth."
"You deserve it."

Hairb
2008-05-28, 01:59 PM
The Saw franchise is total BS. It needs to be said.

Madmal
2008-05-28, 02:15 PM
They like, I hate:
-300: it was awesome, coming from an "only a comic, very loosely based on reality" view. but i Freaking hate all the "THIS IS..." jokes. Same with the Portal game.
-New Indiana Jones movie: a Mexican idol in Peru? the Iguazu waterfall on the Amazon? Pancho Villa teached him Quechua? Die & Be Gone! you're just mocking my country!!! :smallfurious:
-Troy: pure male fanservice. 'nuff said.
-Tomb Raider movies: pure regular fanservice. 'nuff said
-High school musical: though the original idea was good, they're currently milking this franchise for everything they have.
-any movie that excess the use of gansta culture.

I like, They hate:
-2001:a space odyssey:if you read the book, something become clearer, and make it awesome.
-Pink Floyd's The wall: I was crying during this movie. a total mental & emotional blow-up. :smallsmile:

Tengu
2008-05-28, 02:37 PM
I like, They hate:
-2001:a space odyssey:if you read the book, something become clearer, and make it awesome.
-Pink Floyd's The wall: I was crying during this movie. a total mental & emotional blow-up. :smallsmile:

Kweh? Both of those movies are well-acclaimed and liked among people with at least two-digit IQ.

Athaniar
2008-05-28, 02:45 PM
I have yet to find someone on these boards who liked the Catwoman film. The only complaint I hear is that it is completely different from the comics. Well, since I never read those comics, I felt I could enjoy the film anyways.

Another, not so severe example are the Underworld films. I liked them.

And despite what exalted critics say, 2001 only serves to give me multiple headaches (and since they don't normally stack, well...). I couldn't understand it at all, especially not the giant space baby. Or the apes. Or the black obelisks. There was some spaceship or something. Yeah.

WalkingTarget
2008-05-28, 03:31 PM
Hmm...

I liked both Hulk and the Fantastic Four movies. They're not great cinema by any stretch, but I was entertained (Daredevil less so, unfortunately; I didn't even bother with Electra or Catwoman).

I like Napoleon Dynamite well enough for the weird little existential thing that it is. I find the amount of pop-culture exposure it got a bit odd though.

I also tend to like Sword & Sandal style movies regardless of historical inaccuracies if a) there is a good story (Ben-Hur, Spartacus, Gladiator) and/or b) it has sufficient awesome in it to make me not care (Troy, 300).

2001 gets a lot of hate for being "slow" but it's still probably my favorite Kubrick film (several of those I haven't seen yet, however, so that could still change). Note: it is intentionally ambiguous and hard to follow and went out of its way to not explain things. If this bothers you to the point where you don't like it, then you weren't its target audience. Actually, there's probably a lot of movies that are disliked for being "slow" that I don't have that problem with, so this might just be indicative that I have a longer attention span than a lot of the general movie-going populace.

I dislike the whole range of pop-culture-reference movies (the Scary Movie franchise and its cousins, Date Movie, Not Another Teen Movie, Epic Movie, etc. come to mind). Not that I've seen all of these, but I've seen a few and from what I can tell they all pretty much operate on the same preface: take aspects of other popular films and combine them with a "humorous" twist (which is often just sophomoric jokes). It's a shame, really. Look at Airplane! for a movie that was a send up of a genre of films but is absolutely hilarious in its own right. I somehow doubt that most of these others will stand up well in 30 years.

I also tend to dislike horror films in the "gorier is better" school of thought (so the Saw films didn't wow me).

Shas aia Toriia
2008-05-28, 03:33 PM
Hands of Manos was my favourite movie ever. I'm joking, obviously.

Eldan
2008-05-28, 04:32 PM
I can't remember any they hate, I like ones at the moment (I guess they are quite a lot if you give me some time to think), but there is one for the opposite:

Princess Bride.
Yes, you heard me. I started watching it because everyone claimed how great it was all the time. Man, that was boring. I stopped about 30 minutes before it was over, it was so boring. And I rarely ever do that.

Gaelbert
2008-05-28, 05:03 PM
I HATED..... High School. Freakin'. Musical.

I like a few of the songs, but having three installments of this franchise is a bit too much if you ask me.

I definitely agree. Having a 12 year old sister only makes it worse. I wasn't aware there were three of them out, though.

I thought Muppets Treasure Island was a perfectly good movie.
It's not that I disliked Juno, I just didn't think it was as amazing as most of my friends thought it was. Same thing with Napoleon Dynamite.

Phase
2008-05-28, 05:21 PM
As some have said, High school musical was a load of crap. The kind that gets stuck in your head when forced to watch it. Seriously, I was on a bus ride when they were showing it, and the only way I could keep myself from going completely insane was to imagine all the characters as penguins... yeah...

Anyway, I very much enjoyed "Be Kind Rewind" which most people didn't.

As well, I loved "CLOVERFIELD" a whole lot. Most people were turned off by the camera style, but when you get down to it it's really a mix between an freaking awesome monster movie and a message about how life is fleeting and so you shouldn't waste it.

Haruki-kun
2008-05-28, 05:29 PM
I definitely agree. Having a 12 year old sister only makes it worse. I wasn't aware there were three of them out, though.

There's only two, actually. They're making the third one now. Puts a lot of things under perspective for me.... <.<


Seriously, I was on a bus ride when they were showing it, and the only way I could keep myself from going completely insane was to imagine all the characters as penguins... yeah...

And that's why you're so awesome. :smallbiggrin:

I gotta try that.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-28, 05:58 PM
I think that all the people saying 'well, unlike everyone else, I thought 300 was terrible', don't quite get why people 'like' the film in the first place.

Innis Cabal
2008-05-28, 06:22 PM
Hated 2001, absolutly hated it
I hate any and all Dead movies, all of them are boring, make that all horror movies.
Evil dead an all its spawn....i dont care if its S mart, its awful regardless
All the Matrix's. Christianty and "clever" philosophy does not a plot make
Not a movie, well there is one but thats not the point, Evengelion. Utter-#$%#garbage.

Loved 300, seems alot of people here didnt. I can suspend history....physics....acting.....for violence. I sure can
Diehard 1-4 see above.
Most Kung fu movies- Voice acting be damned, im not watching it for the witty back and forth.

evisiron
2008-05-28, 06:24 PM
I heard a lot of bad stuff about the Mist, but really enjoyed it.

Here there be spoilers...(arrr!)
Acid web spiders? Bible nut shot in the head? Whats not to like?
My guess is the ending really messed with people, but thats probably how it would go. It was nice to see an ending that was not necessarily happy, but actually 'ended' the movie.

DraPrime
2008-05-28, 06:35 PM
I never like the original Mission Impossible. Ever. It just never seemed that exciting to me.

hanzo66
2008-05-28, 06:54 PM
I had fun watching 300. Then again I watched it on IMAX so that might have something to do with it. After the movie I was filled with something of an Adrenaline Rush but it's a movie you'll only want to see once.

To me, Spiderman 3 was decent and not all that horrid. I found Peter's jazzy mood amusing and I always did like the idea of a bad guy redeeming himself.

I could not enjoy Napoleon Dynamite. Might have something to do with the fact that people quoted it like crazy back in the day. The movie only made me acknowledge my own pathetic social status and filled me with immense self-loathing and I just did not find the style entertaining.


Aaaand... That's mainly it.

DraPrime
2008-05-28, 07:04 PM
I could not enjoy Napoleon Dynamite. Might have something to do with the fact that people quoted it like crazy back in the day. The movie only made me acknowledge my own pathetic social status and filled me with immense self-loathing and I just did not find the style entertaining.

I also disliked that movie. When I saw it I just had a "WTF?!" expression on my face the whole time. I never just laughed once. I just sat staring at my TV wondering "What is this ****?!?!?"

Various
2008-05-28, 07:08 PM
Donnie Darko. Actually I would probably like it. Its just that everyone always tells me how f****** brilliant it is and its always on everyone's love list. So I simply refuse to watch it. Its kind of silly, but that's just how I roll sometimes.

But I do have one that fits the OP's requirement; Grease.

Haruki-kun
2008-05-28, 07:13 PM
I have to say I have NOT seen 300. However, it gets points for creating an Internet Meme. :smallbiggrin:

THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!

EvilElitest
2008-05-28, 08:50 PM
I HATED..... High School. Freakin'. Musical.

I like a few of the songs, but having three installments of this franchise is a bit too much if you ask me.

I will follow your the end of the earth for that hatred, it makes me burn inside



I think that all the people saying 'well, unlike everyone else, I thought 300 was terrible', don't quite get why people 'like' the film in the first place
1) Historical inaccuracies. Yeah, i know it was based off a comic, but these are down right offensive historical inaccuracies, it is like showing the Confederates as fanged cannibals. Also the Spartain were gay, and the Athenians played a huge part in the movie, why are they showed as pansies
2) Crappy acting/directing
3) Simply stupid fighting. I'm sorry, elephants, rino's, crappy logic, and out right boring fights?
4) Black and white perspective that seems like a propaganda film
5) Racism. To an extreme that reminds me of freaking Goebbels

from
EE

Zarrexaij
2008-05-28, 09:20 PM
They Like, I Hate:
-Saw, Hostel, The Descent, or other modern "horror" (or usually, "torture porn") movie. It doesn't help that basically everyone I know loves them.Meh, I like to call it... goreography (gore and pornography). Modern horror pretty much just plain sucks. I haven't seen very many recent horror movies that were actually... you know, scary, and weren't filled with sillycone tits and gore everywhere. Seriously, that **** isn't scary, it's ****ing comical. You mix bad wannabe porn and bad horror and you get something even worse. It's called modern Western horror. And my GOD does it friggin' blow.

Of course, I enjoy sorta campy 80's horrorflicks like Hellraiser.

Movies I Hate That Everyone Else Likes:
- High School Musical
I'd like to personally destroy the franchise. Wow, let's use stereotypes and make teenagers even worse douche bags! Nevermind the fact they left various high school cliques out. Apparently nerds, outcasts, stoners, punks, goths, scenesters, real emo kids... and just about anyone who doesn't fit the jock, prep, or popular stereotype don't exist.

I'll think of more sometime.

SurlySeraph
2008-05-28, 09:54 PM
Yeah, High School Musical was... weird. I mean, the moral of the story seems to be that popular kids will continue to be popular even if they do non-stereotypically-popular-kid things, like being in school musicals. WTF? Are popular kids the only people who matter now? And, more importantly, do they need that much praise and positive reinforcement?

EvilElitest
2008-05-28, 10:02 PM
Yeah, High School Musical was... weird. I mean, the moral of the story seems to be that popular kids will continue to be popular even if they do non-stereotypically-popular-kid things, like being in school musicals. WTF? Are popular kids the only people who matter now? And, more importantly, do they need that much praise and positive reinforcement?

Remember, disney has apparently become addicted to broken Asops at this point
from
EE

hanzo66
2008-05-28, 10:46 PM
Apparently in 300 the movie was not supposed to be accurate due to the narrator apparently being unreliable. The director said that he was one who believed that facts should not get in the way of a good story.

EvilElitest
2008-05-28, 10:53 PM
Apparently in 300 the movie was not supposed to be accurate due to the narrator apparently being unreliable. The director said that he was one who believed that facts should not get in the way of a good story.

1) 300 doesn't have a story, what are they talking about
2) Oh that is hack argument right there. Considering the massive amount of bad writing and directing, such an argument is like saying Shreeded Moose is a parody
3) Also, the movie plays as a racial propaganda film. If the film was historical accurate in any way might justify the massive racism, as the Spartains were racist slavers but this movies simply justifies the massive racism
from
EE

Sotextli
2008-05-28, 11:27 PM
Also the Spartain were gay,

False. The only classical historians who talked about Spartan homosexuality were Xenophon, who claimed that Lycurgus said that Man-man love based on lust was akin to incest and punishable by death, Plato who was an Athenian and thus quite hostile to Sparta, and Aristophanes, who was the Father of Comedy (basically like saying that everyone from California is gay, because they're crazy hippy liberals).


Also, Athenians weren't shown as Pansies. The only real look we get is Leonidas calling them "boy-lovers", which is understandable seeing as Sparta and Athens were rivals, and then a mention of how the Athenian navy was winning a sea battle. Which is basically what happened.

I'm not saying that there aren't historical inaccuracies, but they're hardly insulting. In fact, the only real problem I had with the movie's inaccuracies were the lack of armor on the Hoplites. But I heard they fight nekkid in the novels, so meh.

Gaelbert
2008-05-28, 11:37 PM
My view on 300 is that if you went in looking for actual historical accuracy, you were setting yourself up to be disappointed. Try to think of it as something not actually at all related to history, and then "discover" that there were some vague historical connections.

Satyr
2008-05-29, 02:56 AM
I have a firm dislike for all movies that can only work if they insult the intelligence of its viewers. 300 is a great example for this: The movie is extremely stupid and assumes that the audience doesn't mind because normal people shouldn't be overburdened with things like plot or meaning.

Madmal
2008-05-29, 01:05 PM
Kweh? Both of those movies are well-acclaimed and liked among people with at least two-digit IQ.

I've seen a lot of people fall sleep with those movies here...:smallannoyed:


And despite what exalted critics say, 2001 only serves to give me multiple headaches (and since they don't normally stack, well...). I couldn't understand it at all, especially not the giant space baby. Or the apes. Or the black obelisks. There was some spaceship or something. Yeah.
I was around the sampath, then i read the book. However, i warn you that it gets a little tiring between the ape-people and the launching of the spaceship.


I have to say I have NOT seen 300. However, it gets points for creating an Internet Meme. :smallbiggrin:

THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!

*tears out Haruki's eyes, makes him choke with them, pins him with lion fish needles, stabs him in the gut "7 times 7 times" and tosses im into a pit full of frenzied, man-eating birds* :smallfurious:

on another subject: christianity on the Matrix? maybe philosophical themes (at least, in the first one, the others were crap)...:smallconfused:

Innis Cabal
2008-05-29, 01:18 PM
Who was 300 racist against? The Iranians? BS. Get over it. Its a story, not a hate novel, thats what it was. Its written from the view of someone who hated them, and its told in that view. The Persian empire wasnt liked by the Spartans, or Greece period. You want accuracy, there, right there is some accuracy. It was a movie made to entertian, only sensitive people with no sense of humor could see it as hate filled propagande.

Mordar
2008-05-29, 01:51 PM
At the risk of sounding not very cool, I really like Daredevil. I do! I thought Ben Affleck and Colin Farrell nailed their roles perfectly, and Jennifer Garner and Michael Clarke Duncan are two of my most favourite actors. I might be a little biased, but I enjoyed the movie. Can't understand why everyone else, including Twisted Toyfare Theater, loathes it with the fury of a million exploding suns.

I'm with you! Daredevil didn't suck. Longtime DD fan (you know, I had the books with the yellow, red and black costume...) and I thought it was *at worst* fine. Ben Affleck (you know, Academy Award Winner Ben Affleck) gets a ton of hate for being successful, attractive, wealthy, etc, ad naseum...and made Forces of Nature deserved it, but this one doesn't.

Sure, there were elements that shouldn't have been included/done the way they were done (I'm thinking of the playground fight...nice idea, but a little *too* much...JG looked much more the fighter than BA so it was too cheesey)...but almost all movies suffer from that truth, and *EVERY* comic-book movie will be subject to intense scrutiny from its fanbase on exactly these sorts of things.

The movie wasn't judged on the movie, it was judged on the casting, and while the cast did fine, people in the target age group aren't big fans of Bennifer (either version).

- Mordar

PS: I freely admit utter refusal to pay to see anything with Nicholas Cage or Willm DaFoe as I hate them. By extension, any movie but Shadow of the Vampire with either of them sucks (pun not entirely unintended).

Amotis
2008-05-29, 07:40 PM
I have a love/hate relationship that ends up with me liking the movie even more with "Reality Bites." Yeah, Ethan Hawke's face makes me want to punch him repeatedly (especially after seeing him "playing" Hamlet), but the over the top characters just make the whole meta-commentary humor with lots of self-conscious satire better. I could see how one would hate it. How lots of people I know hate it. It almost feeds off of that to me.

poleboy
2008-05-30, 02:53 AM
The Saw franchise is total BS. It needs to be said.

I totally agree. I also blame the internet. It made people think it's okay to like torture porn.

I also enjoyed Hulk and Napoleon Dynamite.

300 blows. It's trying to be weird and cool and slightly historically accurate at the same time. It fails at most things.

bladedSmoke
2008-05-30, 02:56 AM
They Like, I Hate:

* The High School Musical franchise. Arghhh! One of my friends loves it, but I despise it with the sort of passion that could power a small village for a year. I don't know whether it's the broken Aesops that get me, or the painful naivete, or the characters, who all fill me with hatred.
* Excessively gory films. Gore bores me, because the only way I can stand it is to tell myself that it's only a movie and it's all special effects. Once I've realised that, it's just boring and I'm waiting for it to be over.

I Like, They Hate:

* Cloverfield. I thought it was absolutely frickin' brilliant, in a leave-your-mind-outside-the-cinema-and-kick-back sort of way.
* 300. If you get to the stage where you're clutching at its historical inaccuracies and very vague, almost certainly accidental connotations of racism in order to argue why it's bad, then you're missing the point entirely. Because this movie has only one point to it, and that's the Rule of Cool.
* Shaun of the Dead. All my friends hated it. *sigh* One of my favourite films.
* Shaolin Soccer. Panned by critics. Loved by me.

Serpentine
2008-05-30, 05:18 AM
I haven't seen 300, but from what I've heard of it I could probably suspend disbelief enough to think of it in the context of "a completely fictionalised comic book", especially with how cool it looks. However, there is no way I could ever suspend disbelief enough to believe that anyone, anywhere, no matter how fanciful their world, would ever go into battle in their undies and a cape. No.
On Spartan sexuality: They did have institutionalised pederasty, but so did the rest of Greece and to an extent (for all they might have denied it) Rome, and there's little doubt that it was exaggerated when it came to Sparta in particular.

Hmm... I can't think of any movies that drive me into a rage... Though I do have a nagging feeling there is at least one. I'll get back to y'all.

GolemsVoice
2008-05-30, 05:52 AM
AH, at last I found people that didn't like the Spiderman movies. I had the plasure to watch both the first and the second movie in cinema, and it was wasted money. While the film was showing, I was sitting in the cinema just thinking "Oh, are they done yet?". What I really couldn't stand, and what ruined the film to me was the obvious "With great power comes great responsibility.". But sure, Peter can't cope with it! He is sad and depressed. He thinks the world hates him. His relationship goes bad. Naw, what an original plot. It took me all my vast intelligence to predict that, in the end, Spiderman will of course be back to rescue Mary Jane/stop the bad guys. How unexpected... boring.

Oh, and don't make me get started on how much I revile Saw and Hostel. First, know that I never watched any of those movies. But I think I know enough about them (actually, more than I wanted), to make myself an opinion about them. As several people mentioned, more gore does not make for more horror, or even more appeal in the film in any way. Of course, brutality can be done well, and gore can be implemented in a film just as good as any other stilistic device, but I really, really don't need people inside ovens for any reason. Considering the history I share as a german, I dislike this scene, and the whole Saw series, even doubly so.

On the other hand, I don't know how the public reacted to Juno, but seeing the comments it got here, I am somewhat of an outsider by liking it.
It was funny, witty and entertaining, nothing more, but certainly nothing less.

kamikasei
2008-05-30, 06:22 AM
* Shaun of the Dead. All my friends hated it. *sigh* One of my favourite films.

Get new friends. It looks like your current ones are broken.


* Shaolin Soccer. Panned by critics. Loved by me.

I should probably get around to watching this in English or at least with subtitles at some point. Problem is, it was so bafflingly bizarre that I'm worried having some idea of what's going on will ruin it. On the other hand, it didn't seem to make that much difference for Kung Fu Hustle.

Bryn
2008-05-30, 08:43 AM
For me it's mainly Like where everyone Hates, since the movies I've really hated have generally been ones that everyone else also hates.

So, the two that stand out for me...

Alienģ (at least the Special Edition, I haven't seen the original). I admit it didn't live up to the first two movies in the trilogy, but not many things do. It had a good, dark atmosphere, the Alien did a good job of offing people, and I wasn't bothered by the special effects. Sure, it didn't have the super-detailed sets and design of the other films, but it was still an Alien film, and thus I liked it. Compared to Resurrection, it was a masterpiece. From my posts, you can probably tell I really didn't like Resurrection.
Cloverfield. I didn't get the impression that this was a movie that many people hated, but apparently it was from the posts in this thread. I loved it, I thought the camera 'gimmick' was great (I like in-universe material, though, such as 40k's Xenology and Uplifting Primer, so that might just be personal taste), the story was interesting, I thought it was great how they didn't reveal too many details about the monster, and all in all I thought it was a fantastic film - one of my favourites, in fact, probably up there near the first two Alien films.

I also liked the second Pirates of the Carribean film, which everyone else seems to despise. Can't really say why, but I had fun watching it, so yeah... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoYeah)

ghost_warlock
2008-05-30, 09:12 AM
I hate The Goonies. There, I said it. :smallsigh:

I liked Donnie Darko the first time I saw it. However, the special features and commentaries/interviews ruined it for me by the time I took a watched it again.

EvilElitest
2008-05-30, 10:09 AM
False. The only classical historians who talked about Spartan homosexuality were Xenophon, who claimed that Lycurgus said that Man-man love based on lust was akin to incest and punishable by death, Plato who was an Athenian and thus quite hostile to Sparta, and Aristophanes, who was the Father of Comedy (basically like saying that everyone from California is gay, because they're crazy hippy liberals).



Some scholars assume that the custom of pederasty paralleled the mentoring relations between Spartan males and adolescent boys, common in Dorian societies. Some of the ancient scholars seem to have supported an opposing view: Xenophon writes that Lycurgus efficiently managed to cultivate chaste pederasty in the Spartan society.[19] This however tends to be viewed as an attempt of praise towards Sparta, and not necessarily as a sincere remark. Aristotle also wrote that Sparta belonged to the type of military society that was based on heterosexual relationship, unlike other Greek states of his time. Cicero furthermore asserts that, "The Lacedaemonians, while they permit all things except outrage (stuprum, i.e. "illicit sexual intercourse", OLD) in the love of youths, certainly distinguish the forbidden by a thin wall of partition from the sanctioned, for they allow embraces and a common couch to lovers.'[20] In antiquity it was thought that a youth was expected to find himself an older lover, and that pederasty, a social practice common throughout most of Greece, was especially so in Sparta, they were the best army in the world where the ephors fined any eligible man who did not have chaste relationships with youths.[21] However, according to one author, an examination of the historical details reveals that "references to particular homosexual attachments of Spartans are conspicuous even by Greek standards".[19]
admit tally from Wikipedia but




Also, Athenians weren't shown as Pansies. The only real look we get is Leonidas calling them "boy-lovers", which is understandable seeing as Sparta and Athens were rivals, and then a mention of how the Athenian navy was winning a sea battle. Which is basically what happened.
1) The comment is still insulting and very out of place
2) The athenias battle wasn't even mentioned in the film, if you watched it without knowlage, it might have never taken place




I'm not saying that there aren't historical inaccuracies, but they're hardly insulting. In fact, the only real problem I had with the movie's inaccuracies were the lack of armor on the Hoplites. But I heard they fight nekkid in the novels, so meh.
1) Of course they are. The idea of the Persians being sub human monstrosities is extremely insulting
2) Well the novel was pretty bad as well



My view on 300 is that if you went in looking for actual historical accuracy, you were setting yourself up to be disappointed. Try to think of it as something not actually at all related to history, and then "discover" that there were some vague historical connections.
1) Alright, it is a bad film even without the historical problems
2) The film is about hte Spartians, of course there are going to be connections


Who was 300 racist against? The Iranians? BS. Get over it. Its a story, not a hate novel, thats what it was. Its written from the view of someone who hated them, and its told in that view.
The Iranians (and the other groups who were enslaved by them) are shown as inhuman monsters, the orcs from LOTRS had better treatment.
The film glorifies the Spartan belief of slaughting your inhuman enemies (barbaric), that the deformed are evil, and that race decides character. In the film the people of the east (who are shown as cruel slavery, huh?) are nothing but monsters compared to the Spartain master race. It is nothing but a shown of Ethnocentrism and racial theories that Goebbels would applaude


The Persian empire wasnt liked by the Spartans, or Greece period. You want accuracy, there, right there is some accuracy.
If the Spartains themselves acted racist, but the actual events weren't particularly racist themselves you'd have a point. However hte movie paints extremely broad strokes, showing the black and white lines of good and evil as a matter of race in the film its self. That is simply racial proganda


It was a movie made to entertian, only sensitive people with no sense of humor could see it as hate filled propagande.
Same can be said about "Birth of a Nation". The movie takes a cultural that has a extremely racist policy and instead of honoring their bravery while condemning their racism, the racism is shown as correct and glorified.
from
EE

Artemician
2008-05-30, 10:16 AM
EE, there's a rather big line between trying to pass a falsehood off as truth, and writing something completely arbitrarily fictional and screaming in bold letters "THERE'S NO WAY THIS THING CAN BE TRUE IZJUZ A STORY YARRR".

Do you see that line?

WalkingTarget
2008-05-30, 10:54 AM
Somebody mentioned Goonies. Unlike most of my peer group, I didn't see this film as a child (didn't see it until college) and therefore don't have a nostalgia reservoir to pull from to make it "great". It was ok in a cheesy 80's kids' adventure movie kind of way, but I can take it or leave it.

More on 300.

The story is narrated by Dilios. You know, this guy.

http://www.visualhollywood.com/movies/300/photos/300-009.jpg

The whole story is him psyching the rest of the army up for a fight against the remaining Persian forces and can be seen as an unreliable narrator who is exaggerating and dehumanizing the enemy in order to be more effective. It's propaganda from a time without political correctness. Look at the treatment that the Japanese got in pulp magazines and comic books during WWII (often either buck-toothed with coke-bottle glasses, or fanged). I don't know a single person (in real life) that came away from the film thinking that Persians were really horrible mutant cyborg things. Heck, before the film came out and started to get a lot of press on the issue I'd bet that a pretty good segment of the movie-going population wouldn't have been able to tell you that Persia was (mostly) where Iran is today.

Here's something I got from Wikipedia as well (the quoted parts have citations). The director of the film said that it is

"an opera, not a documentary. That's what I say when people say it's historically inaccurate". However he is quoted in a BBC News story that the film is, at its core "a fantasy film." He also describes the film's narrator, Dilios, as "a guy who knows how not to wreck a good story with truth."

If you can't get past this point then just don't watch it. The things that bug you about it are irrelevant to what makes it enjoyable to others. We recognize that these aspects are there, but they don't matter to us. If you want historical accuracy, there was a nifty show on The History Channel about the same topic around when the film came out that, while not perfect, is probably more your cup of tea. Or you could even go back and watch The 300 Spartans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_300_Spartans) which was Miller's initial inspiration for the comic in the first place which has inaccuracies of its own, but likewise it doesn't have the grossly inhuman enemies.

EvilDMMk3
2008-05-30, 02:51 PM
I recently drowned in the bile a friend of mine has for Iron Man. I myself has had more than a few wry smiles at Santa Clause Conquers the Martians, although that was me enjoying the awfulness.

Innis Cabal
2008-05-30, 03:06 PM
admit tally from Wikipedia but


1) The comment is still insulting and very out of place
2) The athenias battle wasn't even mentioned in the film, if you watched it without knowlage, it might have never taken place



1) Of course they are. The idea of the Persians being sub human monstrosities is extremely insulting
2) Well the novel was pretty bad as well


1) Alright, it is a bad film even without the historical problems
2) The film is about hte Spartians, of course there are going to be connections

The Iranians (and the other groups who were enslaved by them) are shown as inhuman monsters, the orcs from LOTRS had better treatment.
The film glorifies the Spartan belief of slaughting your inhuman enemies (barbaric), that the deformed are evil, and that race decides character. In the film the people of the east (who are shown as cruel slavery, huh?) are nothing but monsters compared to the Spartain master race. It is nothing but a shown of Ethnocentrism and racial theories that Goebbels would applaude

If the Spartains themselves acted racist, but the actual events weren't particularly racist themselves you'd have a point. However hte movie paints extremely broad strokes, showing the black and white lines of good and evil as a matter of race in the film its self. That is simply racial proganda

Same can be said about "Birth of a Nation". The movie takes a cultural that has a extremely racist policy and instead of honoring their bravery while condemning their racism, the racism is shown as correct and glorified.
from
EE

Anyone who sees ethnocentrism in a film about oil lathered men beating the crap out of people in front of a green screen needs to re-evaluate some things. It wasnt racist in the slightiest. It was a story. They showed the Persians the -PERSIANS- as monsters who were vile and hateful creatures. /gasp! JUST like they would tell to their children and their allies before...oh i dont know, fighting off the then world power. They are not Iranians, they are not middle easterners, they are "historical" interpertations in a "historical" film. Anyone who sees racism in 300 are the same people who see Speedy Gonzales as racist.

I wanted to crawl through my TV screen as soon as that mantra started spilling out over the 24 hour news networks. If you think its raciest, dont watch it. And when people say they do like it, dont shout at them its a raciest propaganda film simply because you want to be offended over something, even if you have to claw through "badly written dialouge, bad acting etc".

If 300 is raciest then i am going to get offended by, the Blue collar comedy tour, everything -ever- done by Foxworthy and his band of merry rednecks, Hee Haw, Dukes of Hazard and any joke that depircates the lower to middle class white american. Thats how sensible that whole argument is.

Jerthanis
2008-05-30, 06:24 PM
They Love, I Hate:

The Nightmare Before Christmas (and all other Tim Burton movies... including Batman and Batman Returns) I don't understand how he's captured the imagination of millions when his movies are so stupid.

I Love, They Hate:

Titan A.E. I don't know what it is about this movie, but I really liked it.

Superman 3 and 4. The first Superman movie was perhaps the best, but where Superman 2 was unintentionally hilarious when it was trying to be serious, lame when it was trying to be funny, and mind bogglingly retarded at all other times, at least Superman 3 was a hilarious Richard Pryor movie guest-starring Superman. With some tweaking (Richard Pryor was an android sent to Earth to build the Brainiac supercomputer... the Superman/Superman fight being more epic, and between evil Supes with his costume stained black by the oil tanker, and the good one in the bright blues/reds/yellows... ect) Superman 3 would've been far and away the best of the series. I've never understood why people don't like Superman 4. It's a tiny bit sillier than the first one, but more serious than 2 or 3, involves a fight with a Supervillain (rare for a Superman movie), and a great deal of mythos involving Superman choosing to leave behind his Kryptonian heritage. Watching all four original Superman movies in a row made me think the series was actually getting more entertaining (if less iconic and classic) as it went on.

Sotextli
2008-05-30, 07:44 PM
admit tally from Wikipedia but

The key word there is "chaste". In fact, Spartan's system was much more akin to a squire-knight relationship rather than a young lover to an old warrior, that most people seem to believe it is.



1) The comment is still insulting and very out of place
2) The athenias battle wasn't even mentioned in the film, if you watched it without knowlage, it might have never taken place


The comment was hardly out of place. Leonidas was addressing an enemy in front of his men, and he was making a show for them, probably either to get their confidence up or just to set an example (that example being if the Athenians said no, than so will we).

And I'm fairly certain that the narrator mentions the Athenians taking to the seas, but I guess I'll just have to rewatch and report back.



1) Of course they are. The idea of the Persians being sub human monstrosities is extremely insulting
2) Well the novel was pretty bad as well

If you had cared to actually watch the movie, you'd find that none of the Persians were actually "monstrocities". Regular foot soldiers were shown to be quite normal humans, and the rest were foreign fighters, who didn't represent any one people at all. Of course, the Immortals were shown to be fairly abnormal, but there's a more logical explanation than racism.


And if you think that the Spartans were glorified in anyway beyond superhuman courage, well, I don't know what to say to you. I personally felt like the Spartans were supposed to represent what happens to a culture that's completely centered around warfare. You might be safe, but your people are freaking nuts.

TheCleric
2008-05-30, 07:48 PM
300? Not nearly enough vikings, too much man nudity.
When I ran this by my friends I saw it with, one rebutted; "Dude the spartans never fought vikings, that would be totally unrealistic!"
But I suppose giant monsters and demon samurai were more true to history.:smallbiggrin:

Artemician
2008-05-30, 07:59 PM
300? Not nearly enough vikings, too much man nudity.
When I ran this by my friends I saw it with, one rebutted; "Dude the spartans never fought vikings, that would be totally unrealistic!"
But I suppose giant monsters and demon samurai were more true to history.:smallbiggrin:

I had quite the same problem with Transformers myself. I came in expecting a completely mindless actionfest with a nonsensical plot and even more nonsensical characters. That was fine.

And I didn't even get that.

Innis Cabal
2008-05-30, 08:03 PM
i was really skeptical of Transformers at first....i mean that if it was awful that would be crossing a line in my childhood i would have to take offense to. But i felt they didnt ruin it horribly....i cant say im not scarred to see what they do to Fraggglerock

Jade Falcon
2008-05-30, 10:53 PM
I like Species II .. I donīt know why, itīs cheesy, itīs dumb, itīs plain ridiculous at the end.

wtf is wrong with me? :smalltongue:

turkishproverb
2008-05-30, 11:17 PM
I like, they hate

I liked transformers. It was cute, cheesy and an overall love letter to the old series/marvel comics. Nothing great, but a watchable popcorn flick.

I liked Daredevil, a few scenes aside, it wasn't bad.

I hate, they love:

I hated Napoleon dynamite, Highschool Musical, goonies, Fantastic Four, Fantastic four 2....

I'll get back to this list later

EvilElitest
2008-05-31, 10:00 AM
More on 300.

The story is narrated by Dilios. You know, this guy.

http://www.visualhollywood.com/movies/300/photos/300-009.jpg

The whole story is him psyching the rest of the army up for a fight against the remaining Persian forces and can be seen as an unreliable narrator who is exaggerating and dehumanizing the enemy in order to be more effective. It's propaganda from a time without political correctness.

Except at no point during the film is an indication given that his propagandist version of the story is not an indication of the truth. If you want to make an argument to that his story is nothing but camp fire propaganda then you have show an indication in the film that this idea is in fact wrong. In every single scene this is shown as to be the proper version of 300 "reality" For example, in the very last scene where the still not battle equipped Spatians attack the Persians, the Persian are still nothing but monsters led by a really creepy looking Xerces.


Look at the treatment that the Japanese got in pulp magazines and comic books during WWII (often either buck-toothed with coke-bottle glasses, or fanged). I don't know a single person (in real life) that came away from the film thinking that Persians were really horrible mutant cyborg things.
1) yes, and is that something to be glorified? That we used racism to support our war efforts, and that is something to be ashamed of, not to glorify. Racism, under any circumstances isn't something to be honored, and 300 simplistic black and white view of the world is simply abominable. Killing messengers, murdering people who have already surrendered, slaughtering slaves, and support of hte ideal of slaughtering hte deformed at birth. All of this simply is something we shouldn't be watching and going "Yeah, go Spartans" It is like making a movie about the Japanese slaughting the Chinese during WWII and showing only the Japanese perspective of what happened, with all of the Chinese being nothing but monsters. This isn't somehting to glorify. Or taking Nathan Bedfor Forest and showing his slaver y as something to glorify
2) The Spartains in real life were barbarians, with a society that supported Eugenics cleansing, and racism, cruelty and ruthlessness. While they were brave and powerful warriors, justifying their racial propaganda and their ruthlessness isn't something that we should cheer them for, it is something that should disgust us


Heck, before the film came out and started to get a lot of press on the issue I'd bet that a pretty good segment of the movie-going population wouldn't have been able to tell you that Persia was (mostly) where Iran is today.

Assuming that that the movie going population are morons doesn't change the fact that it is certianly offensive and racist. I'm native american and i hate any film that shows them as mindless barbarians. And thinking about Iran today, such a film is like a recuitment video


Here's something I got from Wikipedia as well (the quoted parts have citations). The director of the film said that it is

"an opera, not a documentary. That's what I say when people say it's historically inaccurate". However he is quoted in a BBC News story that the film is, at its core "a fantasy film." He also describes the film's narrator, Dilios, as "a guy who knows how not to wreck a good story with truth."
yeah, and i've also read this

300's director Zack Snyder stated in an MTV interview that "The events are 90 percent accurate. It's just in the visualization that it's crazy.... I've shown this movie to world-class historians who have said it's amazing. They can't believe it's as accurate as it is." He continues that the film is "an opera, not a documentary. That's what I say when people say it's historically inaccurate".[74] However he is quoted in a BBC News story that the film is, at its core "a fantasy film." He also describes the film's narrator, Dilios, as "a guy who knows how not to wreck a good story with truth."[10]/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
If you can't get past this point then just don't watch it. The things that bug you about it are irrelevant to what makes it enjoyable to others. We recognize that these aspects are there, but they don't matter to us.
Sure, and i'm sure there are people who enjoy Birth of a nation and nazi proganda films, that doesn't make them any less offensive




If you want historical accuracy, there was a nifty show on The History Channel about the same topic around when the film came out that, while not perfect, is probably more your cup of tea.
historical inaccuracy aside, the film is still a very bad one, in terms of fighting, plot, story, characters, events and racism


Anyone who sees ethnocentrism in a film about oil lathered men beating the crap out of people in front of a green screen needs to re-evaluate some things. It wasnt racist in the slightiest.
wasn't racist in the slightest? We have
1) The super gollum hunch back of utter doom, Remember, don't trust the deformed, they will in the end betray you
2) The creepy harum
3) the fanged and clawed ninjas
4) A multitude of black, middle eastern, and Asian sterotypes
5) decriptions of the Barbaric slave owning east (the Spartains aren't slave owning or barbaric eh?)
6) The gloryfing of the Spartain way of life, including its slaughter of new borns and prisoners, as well with there utter racism



It was a story. They showed the Persians the -PERSIANS- as monsters who were vile and hateful creatures. /gasp! JUST like they would tell to their children and their allies before...oh i dont know, fighting off the then world power. They are not Iranians, they are not middle easterners, they are "historical" interpertations in a "historical" film.
And yet such racial propaganda is justified and glorified, instead of being something to flinch at.


Anyone who sees racism in 300 are the same people who see Speedy Gonzales as racist.
No, anyone who sees racism in 300 are the same type of people who see racism in "Birth of a nation"


I wanted to crawl through my TV screen as soon as that mantra started spilling out over the 24 hour news networks. If you think its raciest, dont watch it. And when people say they do like it, dont shout at them its a raciest propaganda film simply because you want to be offended over something, even if you have to claw through "badly written dialouge, bad acting etc".
that is like saying "If you think the Nazi proganda films are racist, don't watch them". Or "if you think FATAL is racist, don't play it"


If 300 is raciest then i am going to get offended by, the Blue collar comedy tour, everything -ever- done by Foxworthy and his band of merry rednecks, Hee Haw, Dukes of Hazard and any joke that depircates the lower to middle class white american. Thats how sensible that whole argument is.

Ignoring how i'm not a fan of that ether, that is far from the same level. The mocking of red necks, is generally considered comedy, offensive comedy, but the implication in most of these shows is that they are aware of their effects. This is more like the anti Japanese proganda showned during WWII



The comment was hardly out of place. Leonidas was addressing an enemy in front of his men, and he was making a show for them, probably either to get their confidence up or just to set an example (that example being if the Athenians said no, than so will we).

And I'm fairly certain that the narrator mentions the Athenians taking to the seas, but I guess I'll just have to rewatch and report back.
1) By why insult the Atheans for that? Why not mock them for being wimps or not being as warrior like (something which make far more sense considering the Spartain culture
2) there is no mention of the naval battle throughout the entire film.


If you had cared to actually watch the movie, you'd find that none of the Persians were actually "monstrocities". Regular foot soldiers were shown to be quite normal humans, and the rest were foreign fighters, who didn't represent any one people at all. Of course, the Immortals were shown to be fairly abnormal, but there's a more logical explanation than racism.


WFT?
1) We have the cave troll, i mean giant black man who fits the same rule
2) the immortails had fangs and claws
3) Hell, too many sterotypes to list, you can show the entire persian battle sequences and you'd get nothing but racial sterotypes



And if you think that the Spartans were glorified in anyway beyond superhuman courage, well, I don't know what to say to you. I personally felt like the Spartans were supposed to represent what happens to a culture that's completely centered around warfare. You might be safe, but your people are freaking nuts.

1) Kicking the men into the well, slaughtering people who already surrendered, killing hte deformed. All of this is shown as A ok
2) Which brings me to another question, where were the Slaves?
from
EE

TheCleric
2008-05-31, 10:21 AM
I had quite the same problem with Transformers myself. I came in expecting a completely mindless actionfest with a nonsensical plot and even more nonsensical characters. That was fine.

And I didn't even get that.

I'd be slightly offended if that sting wasn't in the form of an entertaining joke that actually fit in with the topic.

Here's something, I'm a Conan fan. Not just O'brien either.
I liked the Conan movies, both were fun and still cool to put in when I want distraction from cleaning my place or such.
But EVERY CONAN BOOK FAN HATES those movies.
Go ahead and look somewhere, the R.E.H. Forums and mention the movie. Be prepared to be crucified on the Tree of Woe.

DomaDoma
2008-05-31, 10:33 AM
Uh? Granted, EE, I've never seen 300 beyond the trailers - doesn't look like my cup of tea - but I highly doubt it's comparable to Triumph of the Will, given that it bears every resemblance to pure, distilled camp.

Innis Cabal
2008-05-31, 10:37 AM
Ignoring how i'm not a fan of that ether, that is far from the same level. The mocking of red necks, is generally considered comedy, offensive comedy, but the implication in most of these shows is that they are aware of their effects. This is more like the anti Japanese proganda showned during WWII

So what your saying is....its ok to mock and redicule something so long as its funny but as soon as its put into an action or historical film its not right? The Anti-Japanese propagande was racism. Not all red necks are aware "thats how they are", even saying that is racist. Thats judging low to middle america as "backward and stupid" and just as bad as making -villians- vile and deformed.

The movie wasnt written to be a historical dipiction of both sides, it was a battle betwen good and evil. Evil being deformed and vile while the good being heroic and epic. Are we ignoring the whole cowardice of the council? Or how about the vileness of the seerers? Or oh...idk....how about the wickdness and spinelessness of the lead councilman who was going to throw all of Sparta to Persia? You can ignore all that because you are to focused on how the movie showed vile repersentations of evil. Did you forget the r@pe scene? Why hasnt that been brought up for a reason its a bad movie?

We're we watching the same movie? No navel scenes or talk of the navy? I recall a good 5 minute shot of the whole 300 staring out to sea as a storm ripped through and sunk a good number of ships at sea.

TheCleric
2008-05-31, 10:46 AM
I'm a bit surprised, though maybe I shouldn't be, that the movie 300, movie mind you, a form of entertainment a form of art, art being the expression of what ever you want to express, is not based on the movie itself, but rather on these outside of cinema factors.
maybe historical accuracy and stuff isn't outside cinematic features.
Never have I heard someone say 300 is a good or bad movie because of it's usage of wipe cuts, the choreography, wardrobe, music, actors' talents, etc.

Artemician
2008-05-31, 11:50 AM
Never have I heard someone say 300 is a good or bad movie because of it's usage of wipe cuts, the choreography, wardrobe, music, actors' talents, etc.

Let me be the first, then. I found the shouting too noisy sometimes, which completely drowned out... well, everything else. But I'm not too concerned, because hey, it's 300. It could be in Spanish for all I care, we're there for the action.

That brings me back to Transformers. Blah. So.. disappointing..

They had the perfect elements to make a Camp Action Movie. Transforming Mecha. A big CGI budget. A director who loves explosions. Expensive cars. A license to be goofy, because it's Transformers.

Unlike some of my friends, who came in expecting art and got offended by the cheesiness of the movie, I came in expecting a cheesy awesome movie. Well, it certainly was cheesy, but it wasn't awesome, and this is why:

1) The annoying "action camera" thing that Michael Bay was trying to do. It didn't allow me to see any of the transformers fighting. What's the point of having a big CGI budget if you blur the whole thing and don't let the audience see it! $^#$^&*

2) The transformation sequences. One reason why I love transformers so much is because well.. they transform. A car collapsing into a quantum singularity and then reappearing as an entirely unrelated robot is not my idea of transformation.

3) The fight choreography. COME ON BAY! THEY'RE FREAKING GIANT ROBOTS! YOU DON'T NEED TO MAKE THEM MOVE LIKE MEN! SHOW US SOME PROPER ROBOT ACTION! RARRR@!

4) The less said about the humans, the better.

Throughout the movie, I counted two moments which I actually enjoyed:

a) Optimus Prime beheading Scorpion-Guy-Thing
b) Starscream flying around New York killing F-16s.

It's such a pity, because the fact that these two scenes exist makes me wish the entire movie could have been like that. Sadly, it isn't.

Serpentine
2008-05-31, 11:52 AM
Well, I brought up wardrobe, but I haven't actually seen it...

Jibar
2008-05-31, 11:54 AM
I hear that Cleric.

Alas, I wanted to stay out of this, but it's nerve grating enough for me to become involved.


Except at no point during the film is an indication given that his propagandist version of the story is not an indication of the truth.

Apart from the giant monsters, the over-grotesqueness of a deformed man, or the narrator?
You're meant to pick it up from those subtle hints. Your problem here is you saw the hints but did not reach the conclusion you were meant to.
But that's okay. Most people would have missed those hints entirely and just accepted it. At least you saw them.


If you want to make an argument to that his story is nothing but camp fire propaganda then you have show an indication in the film that this idea is in fact wrong. In every single scene this is shown as to be the proper version of 300 "reality".

Well, it isn't though.
From the very beginning we know fully well this is a flashback.
Besides that, look at what these people do. Look at how much they survive without a scratch! Spartans were hardcore dudes, yes, but there's no way this could ever be realistic.
Besides, compare these bits with the politic sections back in Sparta. These parts are clearly different from the battle sections, and that's because he's deliberately playing it up.
And besides that the whole thing is presented as fiction. Fictional racism is ignored all the time. If it wasn't, you should be complaining about a lot more movies my friend.


For example, in the very last scene where the still not battle equipped Spatians attack the Persians, the Persian are still nothing but monsters led by a really creepy looking Xerces.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Which scene?
The part where he makes Xerxes bleed, the part that he wasn't there for and is entirely made up by him from whatever he may have heard?
Or the part where the whole of Sparta's army charges, in a section that is meant to be real, and never shows the Persians.

I don't really feel I need to combat any of the rest of your points, because most of them stem from a simple misunderstanding of the core part of the movie.

Sotextli
2008-05-31, 01:12 PM
1) By why insult the Atheans for that? Why not mock them for being wimps or not being as warrior like (something which make far more sense considering the Spartain culture
2) there is no mention of the naval battle throughout the entire film.


I don't see how calling them boy lovers wasn't implying that they were wimps (notice the word boy, not man).



WFT?
1) We have the cave troll, i mean giant black man who fits the same rule
2) the immortails had fangs and claws
3) Hell, too many sterotypes to list, you can show the entire persian battle sequences and you'd get nothing but racial sterotypes


I already gave reasons for the Immortals, and you chose to ignore that. You're repeating your weak argument.

Cave troll? I'm guessing you're referring to the big guy with the Immortals. Uh, it might just be me, but it didn't seem like he was b;acl. In fact, he looked pretty pale and white.

I didn't notice any stereotypes. Care to point them out for me?



1) Kicking the men into the well, slaughtering people who already surrendered, killing hte deformed. All of this is shown as A ok
2) Which brings me to another question, where were the Slaves?
from
EE

Kicking the men into the well is precisely why only a crazy man would consider the Spartans glorified. That and killing babies because they were deformed. And taking kids away from their homes to be part of some brutal training regimen. And the wanton slaughter inflictted by them, without remorse, while they are laughing.

The Spartans aren't meant to be the good guys. The only reason I can see that they'd be considered Heroic was because of the scene with their final stand. Seeing as Delios never witnessed it, it's plausible that this was just Hero Worship on Delios' part.

As for there being no evidence of the story being made up by Delios, consider the size of the elephants. Consider the fact that many of the events happened where Delios wasn't even present. The Harem scene, Leonidas' talk with Xerxes, the Spartan's final stand.

EvilElitest
2008-05-31, 01:19 PM
Uh? Granted, EE, I've never seen 300 beyond the trailers - doesn't look like my cup of tea - but I highly doubt it's comparable to Triumph of the Will, given that it bears every resemblance to pure, distilled camp.

1) I was thinking more about lesser proganda film actually, not of Triumph the Will. It seems morel like Birth of a nation
2) Through to be fair, both Triumph of the Will and Birth of the nation at least had good directing going for them, disgusting as the message was



So what your saying is....its ok to mock and redicule something so long as its funny but as soon as its put into an action or historical film its not right? The Anti-Japanese propagande was racism. Not all red necks are aware "thats how they are", even saying that is racist. Thats judging low to middle america as "backward and stupid" and just as bad as making -villians- vile and deformed.

Actually i specifically said i don't like that style of humor, but in terms of offense it is far lower on the scale, and often times there is a sense of this simply being humor for the sense of humor, and that it isn't real. While this doesn't forgive truly offensive statements, it does at least lessen the blow. At no point in 300 are the views shown said to be anything but hte truth



The movie wasnt written to be a historical dipiction of both sides, it was a battle betwen good and evil. Evil being deformed and vile while the good being heroic and epic.
1) Even ignoring racism, that is an extremely boring and primitive way to show battles between good and evil if your using any real life setting
2) And putting racism into hte factor, that makes hte Spartains, a ruthless, cruel, and slave owning culture the heros, while the persians, admittedly no saints themselves, monsters. That is simply disgustingly bad taste. As i said, i is like Birth of a nation, an offensive and shocking poytral of the Persians is like Birth of a nation's potryal of African Americans, and the way the film glories hte Spartains ruthless actions is like how Birth of a nation shows the lynching of blacks as "justice"


Are we ignoring the whole cowardice of the council? Or how about the vileness of the seerers? Or oh...idk....how about the wickdness and spinelessness of the lead councilman who was going to throw all of Sparta to Persia? You can ignore all that because you are to focused on how the movie showed vile repersentations of evil. Did you forget the r@pe scene? Why hasnt that been brought up for a reason its a bad movie?
Actually yes
1)Just because the council members are shown equally black and white manner doesn't somehow change the potryal of persians
2) Well the council story is equally absurd, black and white, and badly thought out, just without racism. We have generic corrupt bad guy, who foolishly wants peace. Of course, he is in fact corrupt, and it is perfectly fine for the women to shank him in public. This isn't racist, through it does fit into 300 black and white perceptive and simplistic pro miltary view


We're we watching the same movie? No navel scenes or talk of the navy? I recall a good 5 minute shot of the whole 300 staring out to sea as a storm ripped through and sunk a good number of ships at sea.

Did you read what i said. I said no reference to the Athenians naval battle. What your talking about is the storm



Apart from the giant monsters, the over-grotesqueness of a deformed man, or the narrator?
You're meant to pick it up from those subtle hints. Your problem here is you saw the hints but did not reach the conclusion you were meant to.
But that's okay. Most people would have missed those hints entirely and just accepted it. At least you saw them.
No, i'm saying those aren't hints at all, simply racism. Remember, even after the the story about the battle, when the final battle is shown, things are still hte same. If this story is simply meant to be Spartian propaganda then there has to be some part of the story that indicates this, however at no point des the movie give an indication that hte Spartians are some how wrong

Well, it isn't though.
From the very beginning we know fully well this is a flashback.
Besides that, look at what these people do. Look at how much they survive without a scratch! Spartans were hardcore dudes, yes, but there's no way this could ever be realistic.
Besides, compare these bits with the politic sections back in Sparta. These parts are clearly different from the battle sections, and that's because he's deliberately playing it up.
And besides that the whole thing is presented as fiction. Fictional racism is ignored all the time. If it wasn't, you should be complaining about a lot more movies my friend.
1) And yet nothing indicates that it isn't an accurate flashback
2) Or maybe the movie simply is BS and that is why 300 they aren't getting hurt. The movie is simply and overpraised gore feast that glorifies a culture that slaughter babies and prisoners
3) except both the Spartains and hte Persians were real people. Fictional racism is ignored if they races are actually fictional. It is a fictional potryal, but hte events happened



I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. Which scene?
The part where he makes Xerxes bleed, the part that he wasn't there for and is entirely made up by him from whatever he may have heard?
Or the part where the whole of Sparta's army charges, in a section that is meant to be real, and never shows the Persians.
All of the "real" scenes are shown as exactly the same as the "story version" No indication is given from an in movie perceptive that this story is wrong in anyway.


I don't really feel I need to combat any of the rest of your points, because most of them stem from a simple misunderstanding of the core part of the movie.
Glorification of a brutal and barbaric culture, showing a racist and cruel society as good, in the same way Birth of a nation shows the KKK as brave just knights. It is almost like a recruitment film
from
EE

Innis Cabal
2008-05-31, 01:32 PM
1. Racism is racism, just because you dont like it but everyone else does dosnt make it any less offensive. There is no "lower level" on insulting racist views.
2. Just because you dont like 300 dosnt mean its raciest either, your argument is razor thin as it is, and before Iran got up in arms about "denouncing a glorious part of their history" not a single mumer of it reached public attention.
3. You have missed the point of the movie, everyone who sees it as a hate film has missed something about the movie, really about life if they can find racism here but not in other places. Ethnic sterotypes are everywhere, have you seen a single beer commercial, my irish heritge hurts everytime i hear an american actor try to squeeze one out over a can of Miller Highlight. Do i get offended? No, i laugh and just shake my head, because its supposed to be funny, not hateful. Just like 300 was supposed to be a movie with oiled men beating on people for fun, i enjoyed the violence, i enjoyed the plot, and i enjoyed the chicks, like i was supposed to. I dont have to look at everything critically, that ruins the fun of something i payed 10 bucks for.

GolemsVoice
2008-05-31, 01:37 PM
Well well, let's not make this an argumenting about 300 thread, and I know, at least from EE that he argues often, persistant, and fair. But I don't think that's the point in this thread.
So let me thro in something to turn the angered mob on me.
I can't find any enjoyment in Animes. There. You heard it. I don't like the art. I don't like... the way the are. I fail to get the point, and I am ready to admit that this might be really my problem, and it might have somthing to do with me not trying, but, well, I just don't like them. Guess I am not the Japanes-ish type.
Keep in mind that I don't pursue them with the burning hate of a thousand hells, I just don't like them, and might, who knows, one day find on that I like, or make my peace with the entire genre.

Irenaeus
2008-05-31, 02:24 PM
I could't like much of anything about Gladiator apart from the cinematography of a few shots. And I didnæt even start caring about the historical inaccuracies at all before I realized that picking on those would probably have to be my main source of enjoyment. I wouldn't say I hate it, though, I just find it less than mediochre despite it's stellar budget and the talented people involved in it.

I quietly decided that 300 was not for me and did not see it. Therefore I don't have the slightest idea if it was any good or not.

I didn't think too much of Miller's book, though.

On the other hand I believe I am one of the few people in existance who love Alexander. I fully appriceiate much of the criticism towards it, and I understand what people dislike, but it has some qualities that are so incredibly rare in historical movies that, for me, this trumps any amount of campy acting and strange pacing.

Oregano
2008-05-31, 03:38 PM
I thought Akira was merdiocre to be honest, in fact I feel asleep the first time I watched it, It's nowhere near as good as it was made out to be but I thought it was enjoyable atleast.

I liked Daredevil aswell, I didn't think anything was wrong with it and I thought Collin Farrell was great. I also liked Alexander(see you're not the only one Iraneus), although the pacing was a bit weird for me.

I'm also not a big fan of movies like saw, and I saw Hostel and thought it was alright but had no desire to see the second. I'm not a big horror movie fan anyway, and I refuse to watch Rob Zombie's remake of Halloween.

TheCleric
2008-05-31, 03:57 PM
how about musicals?
I hate em.
The only movie that had singing as one of it's main attractions that I liked was The Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Dreamworks animated piece.

EvilElitest
2008-05-31, 09:40 PM
1. Racism is racism, just because you dont like it but everyone else does dosnt make it any less offensive. There is no "lower level" on insulting racist views.
2. Just because you dont like 300 dosnt mean its raciest either, your argument is razor thin as it is, and before Iran got up in arms about "denouncing a glorious part of their history" not a single mumer of it reached public attention.
3. You have missed the point of the movie, everyone who sees it as a hate film has missed something about the movie, really about life if they can find racism here but not in other places. Ethnic sterotypes are everywhere, have you seen a single beer commercial, my irish heritge hurts everytime i hear an american actor try to squeeze one out over a can of Miller Highlight. Do i get offended? No, i laugh and just shake my head, because its supposed to be funny, not hateful. Just like 300 was supposed to be a movie with oiled men beating on people for fun, i enjoyed the violence, i enjoyed the plot, and i enjoyed the chicks, like i was supposed to. I dont have to look at everything critically, that ruins the fun of something i payed 10 bucks for.

1) Actually there are levels of racism. Compare hitler's novel, Family guys irish sterotypes are not even worth noting
2) people were calling 300 racist before Iran banned it. On the note on their historical accuracy, it is actually rather offensive to note correctly show the events. For example, lets say we showed the battle of Gettysburg, and General Lee is a drooling, slave hating, senile old man, with all of the southerners wearing klan hats and being total rednecks, with the Union men as bad ass warriors of death. It is still offensive. THe persians were cruel i don't deny that, and hte Spartian (and other greeks) showened great bravery during that battle yes, but if you break it down into a simply black and white perspective, then that is insulting the events themselves
3) But while some people can put aside a critical perceptive, that doesn't make hte offense any less blatant. I could watch Birth of a nation and choose to ignore the offensive elements, or the National Socialist elements of Triumph of the Will, and both of those films will be amazing good (simply from a directing perceptive)
from
EE
Edit

Alright, i'll second Golem's voice, 300 deserves its own thread

Also, in terms of anime, i dislike a lot of the genre (if it can be called that) but Full Metal Alchemist and Death note are worth checking out

Artemician
2008-05-31, 10:22 PM
EE, do you realize what the fundemental difference between Birth of a Nation and 300 is?

If you don't there's no point in pursuing your line of argument any further. It is doomed to the path of defeat.

Tengu
2008-06-01, 12:48 AM
how about musicals?
I hate em.
The only movie that had singing as one of it's main attractions that I liked was The Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Dreamworks animated piece.

Have you seen Hair?

Nonanonymous
2008-06-01, 01:05 AM
Bad directing, bad fighting, uninteresting character, and some nasty elements Cough* racist* cough

from
EE

While the infinite slow-down, speed-up! sequences in the movie were quite annoying, a movie about Spartans kind of entails racism. Just because someone's the protagonist doesn't mean you're automatically supposed to like/be able to relate to them. That film outright just didn't have any 'good-guys,' which is honestly a more accurate representation of the world at large.

DomaDoma
2008-06-01, 06:38 AM
Have you seen Hair?

Hmm, well, I love musicals and loathe Hair (too raunchy, no sympathetic characters except Claude), but I don't know if it would work in reverse...

Agamid
2008-06-01, 06:59 AM
They Love, I hate:
The Matrix (really didn't live up to the praise all my friends gave it... and then got dragged out for 3 long movies...)
Akira (all i could say after seeing this movie was 'meh'...)
The Lord of The Rings (okay, i'll admit that they were pretty alright movies, but as a Tolkien purist i am out-raged at the changes they made. Seriously, i can understand them leaving out large chunks because they didn't have the time, but changing lines???)
Grease (maybe it's just the feminist in me, but it's a movie where the leading lady finally gets the man by taking up smoking and dressing like a slut just a wee bit chauvinistic?)
Tomb Raider (That's right Angie, distract the audience away from your poor acting with those gigantic lips)
Scary Movie, all of them (... yeah)

I Love, They Hate:
Just every single awful, corny chic-flick ever made...
Cheesy horror films
Apocalypto (Haven't heard a single good thing said about this film, but i loved it)
Underworld
Blade III (saw it when it first came out, am still laughing)
Constantine


...there are others, but i can't think of them right now

Jerthanis
2008-06-01, 08:02 AM
Akira (all i could say after seeing this movie was 'meh'...)


I think most people like Akira not because it was actually good, but because it came out at a time where it was primed to inspire people to think differently about Anime and futuristic settings, and humanity in general. It wasn't great, but what came out of it was everything that came after it.

Also, the Manga was so much better (as is always the case). Except for the last 5 pages. "Yay, we've solved every problem ever! Let's get ourselves out of this post-nuclear-esque wasteland of harsh survivalism! No wait, let's actually never give up a childish stage of riding around on motorcycles not letting people tell us what to do and hope the UN keeps giving us food!"



Blade III (saw it when it first came out, am still laughing)
Constantine


Blade 3 had Hannibal King. The real title of that movie was "Hannibal King is awesome for an hour and a half, and some stodgy wooden actors around him pretend like they matter when he's not busy stealing the scene."

Also, Constantine is awesome, and I wouldn't believe it wasn't well received if I didn't have the internet to tell me how little people liked it. It was awesome!

Xuincherguixe
2008-06-01, 09:06 AM
I'm one of the few people that liked the Hulk. The stuff about the genetic engineering was stupid, but other than that I didn't really have too many problems with it.

It had a lot of Angst mind you, but it wasn't terribly whinny. Mind you, I'm also kind of a cynical misanthrope who's had a few incidents of explosive anger. So I can kind of relate to that. (I'm much better now. I got better at dealing with Stress)

It could have used more destruction mind you, I won't argue that.

Also, until just now I didn't know Constantine wasn't well liked. I thought it was good...


Really, most of the movies I've been to I don't hate. I think this is largely because I don't go to the ones that I know will bother me.

I think I'm a lot more forgiving than most people. I kind of liked 300 despite how so much was so horribly wrong about it. I can forgive the historical inaccuracy. Historical accuracy doesn't mean much monsters start showing up.

That movie was full of hate.

Arioch
2008-06-01, 09:07 AM
Apocalypto (Haven't heard a single good thing said about this film, but i loved it)

The god they are going to sacrifice the guy to in Apocalypto, Kukulkan, didn't take human sacrifices. It just wasn't part of their mythology. Granted, this is the sort of quibbling inaccuracy that even I am prepared to ignore, but the image of him sitting up in Mayan heaven or wherever looking really taken-aback and going "What? sacrifices? Me? O...k... Fine. Uh, Good. Thanks, I...think?" Just kinda kills the drama of the moment for me. :smallbiggrin:

turkishproverb
2008-06-01, 01:28 PM
I think most people like Akira not because it was actually good, but because it came out at a time where it was primed to inspire people to think differently about Anime and futuristic settings, and humanity in general. It wasn't great, but what came out of it was everything that came after it.

Also, the Manga was so much better (as is always the case). Except for the last 5 pages. "Yay, we've solved every problem ever! Let's get ourselves out of this post-nuclear-esque wasteland of harsh survivalism! No wait, let's actually never give up a childish stage of riding around on motorcycles not letting people tell us what to do and hope the UN keeps giving us food!"


Actually, Akira had some of the top quality animation ever, with mouth movements BASED on those of the japanese VA. However, the problem with it was that it compressed a thousands page epic into an hour and a half, cutting out huge plotlines, leaving you with bigger questions (where did he get the gun?) and changing the second half of the storyline drastically.

as to the last 5 pages of the manga Actually, that depends on how you looked at it. If AKIRA was indeed still there as claimed, then they were probably just refusing to let the old generation screw things up the way they had before.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2008-06-01, 01:56 PM
First up, The Princess Bride. It's a movie I just plain don't like. If I'm interested in the story at all, I'll go read the book. Two, excessively gory/violent movies. I hate movies that exist solely for gore, and have violence for the sake of having violence (I'm looking at you Saw. That and Saw is too unrealistic to be believable, which also really turned me off). Now, if there's a movie where the violence is warranted (Such as Black Hawk Down, or Saving Private Ryan), I really have no problem with it. The other type of movies I absolutely hate are stupid comedies. By that I mean comedies where everyone acts like an idiot (basically any Will Farrell movie among many others). Many people just love these movies, but I think they're just dumb and unfunny.

EvilElitest
2008-06-01, 07:54 PM
EE, do you realize what the fundemental difference between Birth of a Nation and 300 is?

If you don't there's no point in pursuing your line of argument any further. It is doomed to the path of defeat.

Birth of the nation- A racial propaganda film promoting Southern power, White Supremacy and the KKK through a film story. Thinly disguised as a

300- Another propaganda film thinly disgusted as a film story, through the racial issue stems from a different source. Along with Birth of a Nation, it promotes a the ideals and beliefs of certain groups through a film story (my going into those would violate forum rules but feel free to PM me), like glorifying the miltary, ends justifies the means, Freedom is not free, and worship of strength. Even ignoring the propaganda, the film promotes brutality, cruelty, and ruthlessness, as well as showing negative portrayals of certain ethnic groups in the same way Birth of a nation does (compare the KKK's lynching of Gus to the slaughter of the messengers.

The only real difference is that Birth of a nation is more upfront

NonAnonymous- That is like saying Shreeded Moose is a parody of Frat boys, or FATAL is a parody of bad games, or Birth of a Nation is in fact simply telling a story about the KKK"s motives and justifications instead of actually supporting their beliefs. If i watched a film about the Spartians proving their bravery, kicking ass, and actually condemning them for their fascist and oppressive culture, while honoring their bravery and badassness, i'd love it. If the film didn't simply paint them as the protectors of western freedom against the horrors of Eastern slavery and showed it instead as two ruthless and slave owning cultures duking it out, with one having one of the most brave and well disciplined armies in world, i'd be all over it. Even if it was the same quality as Gladiator, hey i'd still love it. But the film doesn't do that. At no point are the Spartians, with the exception of the fake pacifist are they condemned in any way, and no disdain is showed upon them. If the film was as neutral as you'd say, then at some point or another, we'd see at some point in the movie and indication of the Spartains being ruthless psychotics. And i don't mean by us watching them kill messengers, because hte film glorifies that. I mean at some point, we feel actual sympathy for the enemy, or disgust at the Spartains as intended. For example, showing that hte Spartians kept slaves as well, or going more into their racial program, or instead of showing their slaughter of helpless the helpless persians (many of which are slaves), instead condemn, while still honoring their extreme badass fighting skill. The film however, doesn't do this, nor does it intend to give the audience any reason to root for the Persians, unless you are one of those guys like me who find these beliefs disgusting (and thus hate the director, and the original writer), you aren't intended to feel any hate towards the spartins


On he actual subject

Matrix- I think the first one was actually very very good, but the other 2 were, um, awful

LOTRS- Now i don't mind changes like getting rid of Tom, or cutting Glorfindal, but time wasting changes, along with PJ's bad editing. Ug. Through the movie did have some pretty amazing props and speical effects

I actually did like Cloverfield


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hanzo66
2008-06-01, 08:48 PM
Personally I've always did have a disdain for war movies like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers, which seem to give off the jingoistic ideal of America Saving the world and such. I also hold a great disdain for 9/11-centric movies since I do not enjoy being forced to feel sympathy for people I never knew or cared for in life.

Artemician
2008-06-01, 09:19 PM
Birth of the nation- A racial propaganda film promoting Southern power, White Supremacy and the KKK through a film story. Thinly disguised as a

300- Another propaganda film thinly disgusted as a film story, through the racial issue stems from a different source. Along with Birth of a Nation, it promotes a the ideals and beliefs of certain groups through a film story, like glorifying the miltary, ends justifies the means, Freedom is not free, and worship of strength. Even ignoring the propaganda, the film promotes brutality, cruelty, and ruthlessness, as well as showing negative portrayals of certain ethnic groups in the same way Birth of a nation does (compare the KKK's lynching of Gus to the slaughter of the messengers.


You know what, I'm going to stop talking now. This is reminding me frightfully too much of your endless spiel on the Witch King. It's obvious that nothing's going to change your mind whatsoever. So eh, I'm going to stop wasting my energy.

I would advise everyone else to do the same.

EvilElitest
2008-06-01, 09:23 PM
Personally I've always did have a disdain for war movies like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers, which seem to give off the jingoistic ideal of America Saving the world and such. I also hold a great disdain for 9/11-centric movies since I do not enjoy being forced to feel sympathy for people I never knew or cared for in life.

totally seconded




You know what, I'm going to stop talking now. This is reminding me frightfully too much of your endless spiel on the Witch King. It's obvious that nothing's going to change your mind whatsoever. So eh, I'm going to stop wasting my energy.

I would advise everyone else to do the same.
1) alright, rather ironic in that WT convinced that it is in fact plot armor
2) Stubbornness against political propaganda and promotion of ruthlessness doesn't equal irrational actually. Avoiding arguments. If you want to talk more, PM me

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Dryken
2008-06-01, 09:33 PM
I hate 300. THERE I said it. I hate hate hate it! The writing is crap (In my opinion Miller stopped being a good writer after the 80s), and overall it's just nice looking slow motion FLUFF!

Good thing I'm not a guy otherwise I would have been told to turn my penis in downtown.

Turcano
2008-06-01, 09:33 PM
If i watched a film about the Spartians proving their bravery, kicking ass, and actually condemning them for their fascist and oppressive culture, while honoring their bravery and badassness, i'd love it. If the film didn't simply paint them as the protectors of western freedom against the horrors of Eastern slavery and showed it instead as two ruthless and slave owning cultures duking it out, with one having one of the most brave and well disciplined armies in world, i'd be all over it. Even if it was the same quality as Gladiator, hey i'd still love it. But the film doesn't do that. At no point are the Spartians, with the exception of the fake pacifist are they condemned in any way, and no disdain is showed upon them. If the film was as neutral as you'd say, then at some point or another, we'd see at some point in the movie and indication of the Spartains being ruthless psychotics. And i don't mean by us watching them kill messengers, because hte film glorifies that. I mean at some point, we feel actual sympathy for the enemy, or disgust at the Spartains as intended. For example, showing that hte Spartians kept slaves as well, or going more into their racial program, or instead of showing their slaughter of helpless the helpless persians (many of which are slaves), instead condemn, while still honoring their extreme badass fighting skill. The film however, doesn't do this, nor does it intend to give the audience any reason to root for the Persians, unless you are one of those guys like me who find these beliefs disgusting (and thus hate the director, and the original writer), you aren't intended to feel any hate towards the spartins

I think that your problem with 300 is that it was written by Frank Miller.


LOTRS- Now i don't mind changes like getting rid of Tom, or cutting Glorfindal, but time wasting changes, along with PJ's bad editing.

Nobody is upset with Tom Bombadil getting cut. With source material like that, the only things you can do are cut it entirely or tone down the fruitiness. (Seriously, I think that part was written when his students gave him homemade brownies and neglected to inform him of the secret ingredient.)

Glorfindel's cut, on the other hand, was solely to keep Aragorn and Arwen's relationship from looking like a Token Romance (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenRomance), which I really can't get behind. (Plus, it led to a surprisingly lame chase scene with one of the stupidest lines in the film.) But compared to other changes, it's comparatively minor. But I agree with the pacing/editing issues; if it weren't for all of those pointless Orthanc scenes, you could keep all sorts of stuff, or lower the length rating to outrageously long (down from bladder-bursting).

EvilElitest
2008-06-01, 09:42 PM
I think that your problem with 300 is that it was written by Frank Miller.

Well i do hate Frank Miller, but the movie (which i think he produced) is still worst



Nobody is upset with Tom Bombadil getting cut. With source material like that, the only things you can do are cut it entirely or tone down the fruitiness. (Seriously, I think that part was written when his students gave him homemade brownies and neglected to inform him of the secret ingredient.)
Actually, i think Tolkien knew what he was doing when he wrote that part, but for any movie other than a TV show, cutting it is totally fine



Glorfindel's cut, on the other hand, was solely to keep Aragorn and Arwen's relationship from looking like a Token Romance (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TokenRomance), which I really can't get behind. (Plus, it led to a surprisingly lame chase scene with one of the stupidest lines in the film.) But compared to other changes, it's comparatively minor. But I agree with the pacing/editing issues; if it weren't for all of those pointless Orthanc scenes, you could keep all sorts of stuff, or lower the length rating to outrageously long (down from bladder-bursting).

Pretty much, PJ pacing and bad cutting choices let to some really really really bad problems in what could have been an amazing movie (and still had a lot of amazing stuff)
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Turcano
2008-06-01, 09:52 PM
Actually, i think Tolkien knew what he was doing when he wrote that part, but for any movie other than a TV show, cutting it is totally fine

That was a bit of hyperbole, but still. The problem is that it's okay on paper, but as soon as you translate it into a visual medium, the sheer WTFery of it rears up and bites you.

Hell Puppi
2008-06-01, 10:01 PM
I hate Underworld, but my friends love it. I can't even watch it without wanting to yell at the screen.
I'm thinking about suffering through it again though just to write up a review for The Agony Booth (if anyone knows what that is).

I didn't like Nepolian Dynamite, either (apologies for the spelling).

I liked Cloverfield a lot. Oddly enough most of my friends did, too.

I don't like musicals (this was reinforced by having drama majors as friends...who insisted on singing...) but I liked Sweeny Todd.

And I liked all of the Pirates movies. Shaddap.

Twin2
2008-06-01, 10:09 PM
I definitely agree. Having a 12 year old sister only makes it worse. I wasn't aware there were three of them out, though.

I feel for you. My sister when younger decided it would be awesome to have early morning marathon viewings of Spice World. I think part of my brain broke from that.

Hairb
2008-06-01, 10:58 PM
They Love, I hate:
The Matrix (really didn't live up to the praise all my friends gave it... and then got dragged out for 3 long movies...)
Akira (all i could say after seeing this movie was 'meh'...)
The Lord of The Rings (okay, i'll admit that they were pretty alright movies, but as a Tolkien purist i am out-raged at the changes they made. Seriously, i can understand them leaving out large chunks because they didn't have the time, but changing lines???)
Grease (maybe it's just the feminist in me, but it's a movie where the leading lady finally gets the man by taking up smoking and dressing like a slut just a wee bit chauvinistic?)
Tomb Raider (That's right Angie, distract the audience away from your poor acting with those gigantic lips)
Scary Movie, all of them (... yeah)

I Love, They Hate:
Just every single awful, corny chic-flick ever made...
Cheesy horror films
Apocalypto (Haven't heard a single good thing said about this film, but i loved it)
Underworld
Blade III (saw it when it first came out, am still laughing)
Constantine


...there are others, but i can't think of them right now

Grease is a film that just needs to be forgotten and never remembered.

Agamid
2008-06-01, 11:13 PM
Grease is a film that just needs to be forgotten and never remembered.

Easier said than done when all of the girls in your grade in primary school were obsessed with it...


The Spongebob Movie i don't care what kind of looks or comments i get being a 21year-old watching and praising this movie, it was fantastic! My 27 and 19 years-old brothers will agree with my on this one, as will my 51 year-old father.
This movie is just so hilarious, and never gets old.

Jerthanis
2008-06-02, 03:55 AM
Actually, Akira had some of the top quality animation ever, with mouth movements BASED on those of the japanese VA. However, the problem with it was that it compressed a thousands page epic into an hour and a half, cutting out huge plotlines, leaving you with bigger questions (where did he get the gun?) and changing the second half of the storyline drastically.

as to the last 5 pages of the manga Actually, that depends on how you looked at it. If AKIRA was indeed still there as claimed, then they were probably just refusing to let the old generation screw things up the way they had before.

Y...yeah, that's basically what I meant. It changed what people thought could be done with the medium, and inspired probably more than half of the Mangaka and Animation studios which have come after it.

You'll have to forgive me, it's been more than a few years since I read the Akira manga, so I don't really remember it very well. Perhaps I was merely being cynical at the time of reading it.

I'd actually be very interested to hear a detailed description of why someone who hates Constantine holds that opinion... because among my group of friends we can't agree on any comic book movie being good or not except Constantine, which we universally put in our "Top five Comic Book Movie" lists.

Hairb
2008-06-02, 05:30 AM
... and inspired probably more than half of the Mangaka and Animation studios which have come after it.


You say that like it's a good thing.

NEW SACRED COW: Anime

I liked Spirited Away very much, enjoyed maybe the first half hour of Akira and was deeply puzzled by Princess Mononononononoke. X sucked. Cowboy Bebop was a series that seemed motivated primarily by a deep and thunderous desire to overcome its (admittedly multifarious) merits and fail against the odds, which it succeeded in despite running the risk of entertainment in almost every episode. I don't know how well it works at feature length and really I don't care. As for the rest of the genre artform: a combination of :smallfurious:, :smallsigh: and :smallyuk:.

Tengu
2008-06-02, 05:35 AM
Anime is not a genre.

Hairb
2008-06-02, 07:07 AM
Anime is not a genre.

Point conceded. What's artform for you instead?

Tengu
2008-06-02, 07:19 AM
Fine enough. Although it doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion, people who say they don't like anime (or most anime) just haven't seen the correct shows.

Same case as books or computer games, to be honest.

Jibar
2008-06-02, 10:08 AM
I'd actually be very interested to hear a detailed description of why someone who hates Constantine holds that opinion... because among my group of friends we can't agree on any comic book movie being good or not except Constantine, which we universally put in our "Top five Comic Book Movie" lists.

Because it wasn't Constantine.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Constantine, but not as a Constantine movie.
Constantine is about a hardass ex-magician with a couple bad habits and a dark past who fights against all supernatural things.
They got the hardass, and they got the bad habits, no dark past to be seen but they got the most important part wrong. They limited him to just the Christian faith. Constantine is well known for flitting between all religions; battling a Hindu god one week to messing with a mesoamerican deity the next. His role as an ex-magician made him knowledgeable about all these things while simultaneously giving him the skills to fight anything.
The movie took him and made him a run of the mill exorcist. It also had some weird ideas about a balance or whatever that didn't really make much sense to me. Plus Shia LeBoof. I like the kid, but he shows up way too much these days.
Besides, where was Swamp Thing? Honestly. :smalltongue:
As a movie, Constantine is pretty good. As a Constantine movie, not so much.

EvilElitest
2008-06-02, 05:56 PM
Fine enough. Although it doesn't change the fact that, in my opinion, people who say they don't like anime (or most anime) just haven't seen the correct shows.

Same case as books or computer games, to be honest.

We should start a thread about introduction anime people to the right shows
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hanzo66
2008-06-02, 07:15 PM
Yeah, that would work...


Personally I never really was quite as impressed by the Haruhi show as much as other people were. Seen both Sub and Dub and neither really truly impressed me beyond "fun show" and not much else.

EvilElitest
2008-06-02, 07:17 PM
Yeah, that would work...


Personally I never really was quite as impressed by the Haruhi show as much as other people were. Seen both Sub and Dub and neither really truly impressed me beyond "fun show" and not much else.

I liked them, but in the same way i liked Friends, or House. Cool shows, but not super shows. Through, i did laugh to the point of cough up blood
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hanzo66
2008-06-02, 07:26 PM
I may have cracked a smile during some of the moments. That's as far as I have gotten to laughing in Anime.

EvilElitest
2008-06-02, 07:47 PM
I may have cracked a smile during some of the moments. That's as far as I have gotten to laughing in Anime.

well i found Death note extremly funny. For teh wrong reasons i imagine
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katkin
2008-06-06, 12:56 PM
I like Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.

Yes, with Kevin Costner. Pretending to be from Nottingham. What?

... OK fine...

But in my defence Alan Rickman is cool.

Sotextli
2008-06-06, 10:32 PM
I tend to like Kevin Costner films, even the ones that are considered horrendous by what seems to be every one but me.

For example, Postman and Waterworld (yeah, that Waterworld)

Serpentine
2008-06-06, 11:17 PM
...I like Waterworld okay <.<

Jade Falcon
2008-06-07, 07:51 PM
I too like Waterworld .. Dennis Hopper is just funny. I wonder why they didnīt give him a mustache to twirl.