PDA

View Full Version : Interesting 4e Multiclassing Options



JaxGaret
2008-05-29, 01:58 AM
What multiclassed character builds do you think are interesting?

I think that a Fighter multiclassed into Ranger could get pretty mean. I'll come back with more details later.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-29, 01:59 AM
What multiclassed character builds do you think are interesting?

I think that a Fighter multiclassed into Ranger could get pretty mean. I'll come back with more details later.

Like I said in the other thread, Paladin into Warlock. Take Fey Pact powers--the ones that let you make your enemies attack each other. Those key off CHA. So does a whole line of Paladin powers.
Mark your enemies, and make them attack each other--and soak up Divine Challenge damage while they do it.


Edit: it's not optimal, but I want to make a Dwarf Fighter->Rogue or Rogue->Fighter taking the Cat Burglar paragon path. Rogues get pushed 1 square less, so do Cat Burglars. You'd be immovable. Like the Blob.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2008-05-29, 02:14 AM
The 4e conversion train is bearing down on me, so I'll bite with a Warlock/Rogue; the warlock acting as a ranged striker, the rogue as a skill/utility option.

Reel On, Love
2008-05-29, 02:19 AM
Any two classes that use the same stat (and that leaves a bunch of room; most classes have their choice of two stats to rely on thanks to their powers).

Fighter/Cleric or Warlord, or vice-versa is an obvious one. (Inspiring) Warlord/Paladin, or vice-versa. All of'em use strength.

Rogue with high STR (Bugbear Rogue?) into Fighter. Your STR isn't that much lower than your DEX, and you can use Fighter powers like the one that uses STR+DEX for attack and STR+DEX for offense.

Cleric into Paladin taking the Hospitaler path can be a truly great healer.

Xefas
2008-05-29, 02:22 AM
If you were, say, a Warlord/Paladin, and used your Divine Challenge on something (gained from the Soldier of the Faith or whatever the paladin multiclass feat is called), wouldn't Commander's Shout count as "engaging" the enemy (or however Divine Challenge phrases what you have to do to continue the challenge)?

You're using a power to deal damage to an enemy, which sounds like engaging them to me. However, you're actually several squares away letting some surrogate meatshield do the actually dangerous stuff. Plus, if the meatshield is some big Dragonborn 2h Fighter or something, they're probably doing more damage from your Commander's Shout than you would be doing anyway.

Edea
2008-05-29, 02:26 AM
Actually, the warlock multiclass feat doesn't seem to agree between table and text; one says you get the benefits of a warlock pact, the other says you get eldritch blast 1/encounter. Text trumps table, still?

Xefas
2008-05-29, 02:32 AM
Actually, the warlock multiclass feat doesn't seem to agree between table and text; one says you get the benefits of a warlock pact, the other says you get eldritch blast 1/encounter. Text trumps table, still?

Well, the excerpt/preview thing said Pact Power.

...wait, Eldritch Blast? The at-will power? As an encounter power? Isn't that the equivalent of the Half-Elf signature racial ability? As a feat? That doesn't seem quite right :smallconfused:

Reel On, Love
2008-05-29, 02:35 AM
The text is right; you pick the at-will corresponding to the pact you want.

The multiclass feat (a) qualifies you for the power-swapping feats, (b) gives you a specific trained skill (Skill Training is, itself, a feat--of course, you get to pick), and (c) qualifies you for the other class' paragon paths. It's not a bad deal.

Rutee
2008-05-29, 02:36 AM
Just to make sure I've got this, Let's assume you don't give up your Path, and take all the Multiclass Feats. You get 1 Class Feature, and you can use one of your Encounter Powers known on your second class, you can use one of your Utility Powers known on your second class, and one of your Daily Powers known on your second class. You can retrain Multiclass powers known (So I can switch out that level 4 Encounter Power for a level 13 one, even if that level 13 one is from my multiclass)

I can also take my Paragon Path from my Multiclass, yes?

Admiral Squish
2008-05-29, 02:45 AM
Great. Now I get to STOP feeling awkward about not owning ToB, and START feeling awkward about not owning 4E. What a wonderful change.

Charity
2008-05-29, 02:57 AM
Like I said in the other thread, Paladin into Warlock. Take Fey Pact powers--the ones that let you make your enemies attack each other. Those key off CHA. So does a whole line of Paladin powers.
Mark your enemies, and make them attack each other--and soak up Divine Challenge damage while they do it.


Edit: it's not optimal, but I want to make a Dwarf Fighter->Rogue or Rogue->Fighter taking the Cat Burglar paragon path. Rogues get pushed 1 square less, so do Cat Burglars. You'd be immovable. Like the Blob.

See i was looking forward to something along these lines.
I was disappointed to note that there is no point taking the warlock paragon class though.
As you don't get to curse enemies it means all the warlock paragon paths (although available) are in fact pointless to take as the key abilities require the warlock curse... oh well toe dipping only.

Xefas
2008-05-29, 02:57 AM
Great. Now I get to STOP feeling awkward about not owning ToB, and START feeling awkward about not owning 4E. What a wonderful change.

You've still got a little over a week before the mobs show up at your door, hogtie you, and brand "Gaming Platypus" on your forehand so that the rest of the gaming jungle can point and stare at your obvious mammal egg-laying behind-the-times awkward...ness.

That metaphor sounded a lot better before I wrote it...

Charity
2008-05-29, 03:09 AM
Great. Now I get to STOP feeling awkward about not owning ToB, and START feeling awkward about not owning 4E. What a wonderful change.

Wanna buy a second hand copy of ToB :smallwink:

Reel On, Love
2008-05-29, 03:16 AM
See i was looking forward to something along these lines.
I was disappointed to note that there is no point taking the warlock paragon class though.
As you don't get to curse enemies it means all the warlock paragon paths (although available) are in fact pointless to take as the key abilities require the warlock curse... oh well toe dipping only.

You get Warlock's Curse as an encounter power by taking the multiclass feat. So the paths aren't pointless. Still not the best choice, though.

Charity
2008-05-29, 03:47 AM
I thought you only got the pact at will as an encounter, not the ability to curse, which is th +1d6 thing, no?
If I'm honest I have barely glanced at the PHB, but I did have a look at the multiclassing bit and they don't mention the curse ability in the pact initiate bit... could easily be wong ... I rather hope that I am as it goes.

MorkaisChosen
2008-05-29, 06:36 AM
Fighter/Wizard could be... interesting. Versatile, certainly.

Xsjado
2008-05-29, 07:05 AM
Until PHB2 comes out and all the purpose built gish classes appear.

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 07:08 AM
We already kind of have a semi-gish (very heavy on the semi) Paragon Path for wizards, even, with a melee whirlwind attack kind of thing that teleports all your enemies into the Feywild.

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 07:08 AM
After considering all the multiclass options... I just don't think any of them really stack up to the Paragon Paths.

Take the Daggermaster, for instance. They crit on an 18-20 and treat their daggers as one die size larger. And those are always on features... that's not even counting the powers :smallbiggrin:

Azerian Kelimon
2008-05-29, 07:09 AM
Apparently, if you're not aiming for a particular path and are not a controller, it's a good idea to spend feats on a fighter multiclass to get into swordmaster. Getting back your powers is a huge ability, and the trademark of the epic levels, not the paragon paths.

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 07:12 AM
This is the first time I've ever created characters for D&D and actually, honestly -agonised- about powers and weapon choice. It's not that they can ruin my build, it's that I can totally change my long-term strategy with them. I could use an AoE blind, or a single target stun... Aaaargh so much choice.

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 07:14 AM
My problem was the feats. There are EIGHTY ONE heroic tier feats to choose from... none of them standing out as "OH MY GOD PICK ME!" feats. 41 Paragon Tier... 19 Epic tier.

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 07:16 AM
Quick Draw is super badass, IMO. +2 to Initiative and free drawing of any weapon = sexy.

Xefas
2008-05-29, 07:18 AM
19 Epic tier.

Between only 4 Epic Destinies and only 19 Epic Feats, I'm wondering if we'll be getting an Epic Level Handbook again; just loaded down with more destinies, feats, powers, and monsters specifically for the tier.

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 07:19 AM
Between only 4 Epic Destinies and only 19 Epic Feats, I'm wondering if we'll be getting an Epic Level Handbook again; just loaded down with more destinies, feats, powers, and monsters specifically for the tier.

That would be my guess. WotC doesn't expect people to jump in at level 21-30, so they have time to get a book with Epic stuff out. We'll probably see some epic destiny in the forgotten realms book (Harper Master maybe?)

Inyssius Tor
2008-05-29, 08:51 AM
Just to make sure I've got this, Let's assume you don't give up your Path, and take all the Multiclass Feats. You get 1 Class Feature, and you can use one of your Encounter Powers known on your second class, you can use one of your Utility Powers known on your second class, and one of your Daily Powers known on your second class. You can retrain Multiclass powers known (So I can switch out that level 4 Encounter Power for a level 13 one, even if that level 13 one is from my multiclass)
As far as I know... yes. And if you multiclass into wizard (or several other classes, I think), that Class Feature happens to be another wizard power (which can also be retrained up, I believe). And if you play as a Half-Elf, you get to use another of their At-Wills as an Encounter power. I don't know how many rounds 4E fights will tend to be, but that is a lot of powers.
I can also take my Paragon Path from my Multiclass, yes? Yes. Or, instead of using one of your multiclass's paragon paths, you can use that Multiclass as a Paragon Path, if you want.

FinalJustice
2008-05-29, 09:04 AM
Fighter/Rogue sounds good to me. In fact, it's the first 'combo' I got for this new world. Nothing really optimized, but the /Rogue has some utility movements which fighter lacks, and there is teh damage.

Jarlax
2008-05-29, 09:05 AM
i have been saying it since the previewed the warlord and my opinion has not changed. gogo fighter/warlord (that is a fighter who has taken the student of battle feat) take the novice power feat and im done.

what do i get? a fighter who can use Diplomacy or one of the shared skills i didn't get at 1st level, the ability to heal myself or another 1/day and most importantly access to a full list of encounter powers which compliment a fighters already impressive array of melee powers.

my class role hasnt changed, i am still the party tank. its just that now the way i tank has improved. by using powers like sunder armor. which makes all attacks against my target crit on an 18-20 until the end of my next turn. then follow up with a fighter power like reckless strike, which simply deals 3[w] which is maximized on a 18+ thanks to sunder armor.

what has this cost me? two feats, total

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 09:13 AM
Fighter/Warlord will be good.

I was looking at Fighter/Cleric into Angelic Avenger paragon path, personally. Holy Warrior for the win!

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 09:13 AM
Has it been stated that you get the basic class features with the feat, like Prestidigitation, Light and Mage Hand for Wizards?

If so, I'm replacing Quick Draw with the Wizard Training feat. :smallbiggrin:

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 09:15 AM
You get a specific class feature with the feat. One trained skill and one class feature.

Rogue gets you Sneak Attack once per encounter.
Ranger gets you Hunter's Quarry once per encounter.

etc.

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 09:19 AM
But no Arcane Implement Mastery, Cantrips and Ritual Casting? Just an offensive (or I guess utility) power and arcana? That's the suck.

kamikasei
2008-05-29, 09:20 AM
Has it been stated that you get the basic class features with the feat, like Prestidigitation, Light and Mage Hand for Wizards?

If so, I'm replacing Quick Draw with the Wizard Training feat. :smallbiggrin:

What I'd like to know is, if you multiclass into Wizard and take Adept Training or whatever it is that grants daily powers, do those daily powers obey they choose-two-prepare-one spellbook rules?

Xefas
2008-05-29, 09:24 AM
What I'd like to know is, if you multiclass into Wizard and take Adept Training or whatever it is that grants daily powers, do those daily powers obey they choose-two-prepare-one spellbook rules?

I assume "Spellbook" is a class feature, which you do not have if you are not a Wizard.

I'm mainly wondering what everyone gets to balance the Wizard's free cantrips, free ritual feat, and free rituals.

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 09:26 AM
Um. Stuff like Sneak Attack, Marking, Hunter's Quarry, at-will Warlock pact bonus stuff, etc etc - every class gets a handful of goodies. I guess they didn't want me to double up on said goodies at level 1.

Xefas
2008-05-29, 09:30 AM
Um. Stuff like Sneak Attack, Marking, Hunter's Quarry, at-will Warlock pact bonus stuff, etc etc - every class gets a handful of goodies. I guess they didn't want me to double up on said goodies at level 1.

Well, Wizards get their implement power and Spellbook to balance those things.

Cantrips and Rituals just seem to me to go beyond all that. Plus, I want some kind of "Cantrip Caster" feat.

You cracked open 'Beginners Guide to Magical Groping' and spent the evening reading about cantrips.
Requirements: None
Benefit: You gain the use of 2 cantrips at will.

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 09:32 AM
Rangers also get a bonus feat based on their combat style (Defensive Mobility or Toughness)... And +1 to hit with ranged weapons if you're closer to the target than any of your allies.

That's the only one that I've read in depth so far.

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 09:32 AM
I'd just give the cantrips to someone with the Wizard multiclass feat, because all they do is affect non-combat situations.

The Mormegil
2008-05-29, 10:14 AM
Would a Wizard/Warlord be playable? Useful? I think not, but I'm gonna play one, no matter what...

Scintillatus
2008-05-29, 10:15 AM
He'd be excellent, if he was a Tactical (int-based) Warlord. Basically, all multiclasses are good, multiclasses who share a stat are better.

Indon
2008-05-29, 10:39 AM
I think that a Fighter multiclassed into Ranger could get pretty mean. I'll come back with more details later.

Yeah. I don't have access to the books, but don't Rangers get an offhand attack power? It would seem that could be potent. And while you're getting Ranger powers via multiclassing, you could grab a ranged power so that your secondary ranged weapon isn't vastly inferior to your melee.

clericwithnogod
2008-05-29, 10:47 AM
Rogue/Fighter is great, particularly if you pick up proficiency with a nonstandard weapon. Having a weapon in either hand that can do different things and/or has different benefits with powers is really nice (especially after you factor in magic items). Add in that Quick Draw is a really useful feat, you have some nifty ranged powers and that you can grab a versatile weapon with that proficiency feat and you have all kinds of options in what you do.

Paragon multiclassing is pretty nice as well - particularly to grab that extra at will if you're a human. There are pretty much two at wills that are really useful for you from your own list, getting a third that you like from somewhere else, even if not the best from a pure power standpoint, will make the character play really well in game. I wouldn't want to do it with a non-human though because picking just one at-will from a class list feels kind of limiting.

Rutee
2008-05-29, 10:48 AM
Well, Wizards get their implement power and Spellbook to balance those things.

Cantrips and Rituals just seem to me to go beyond all that. Plus, I want some kind of "Cantrip Caster" feat.
Well, not really. The Implement Powers are Encounter (Most of the abilities just mentioned are At Will), and the cantrips aren't that hot.


Yeah. I don't have access to the books, but don't Rangers get an offhand attack power? It would seem that could be potent. And while you're getting Ranger powers via multiclassing, you could grab a ranged power so that your secondary ranged weapon isn't vastly inferior to your melee.
For this, you'll want the Ranged/Melee powers, the ones that allow use of either Two Swords or a ranged weapon.

Crow
2008-05-29, 12:31 PM
Ranger/Wizard seems like it could be awesome. Pick up control powers from your wizard side. Rogue/Wizard was my initial thought, but I like to have a better selection of weapons.

Does anybody know how you can pick up more weapon proficiencies?

Cybren
2008-05-29, 12:38 PM
I am all over the Fighter/Warlord. As a second I'd probably go Wizard/Warlock, just because.

SamTheCleric
2008-05-29, 12:40 PM
Strangely... I'm tempted to do a Cleric/Warlord and doubling up on the leader powers.

Is that weird?

Rutee
2008-05-29, 12:44 PM
The Weapon Proficiency Feat might just do it :smallyuk:


Weapon Proficiency
Benefit: You gain proficiency in a single weapon of
your choice.
Special: You can take this feat more than once.
Each time you select this feat, choose another weapon.

Illiterate Scribe
2008-05-29, 12:55 PM
Well, I'm currently lovin' me some Star Pact Warlock flavour, and Shielding Shades is awesome, but what would synergistically go with all those will debuffs?

Also - any ideas of what would go well with a divine oracle cleric?

Crow
2008-05-29, 01:12 PM
The Weapon Proficiency Feat might just do it :smallyuk:

Well I don't have the books or the time to plow through dozens of threads searching.

That is a pretty weak feat...Ranger it is.

Draz74
2008-05-29, 01:41 PM
Great. Now I get to STOP feeling awkward about not owning ToB, and START feeling awkward about not owning 4E. What a wonderful change.
You can still be ashamed about ToB if you want to. :smallwink: I'd still rather have ToB, myself.


Wanna buy a second hand copy of ToB :smallwink:
Sure! If it's really cheap.
Dumb bank account's never big enough ...

Anyway ... I'm still somehow attached to my little imaginary "Party of 3" 4e characters that I came up with a while ago. Of course, since there are four character roles and only three characters in this party, multiclassing heavily will be a necessity.

We've got a Dragonborn Warlord, possibly with some Paladin multiclassed (since Paladin and Warlord just have tantalizingly good ability synergies).

We've got an Elf Fighter/Ranger (archery) or Ranger (archery)/Fighter. I'm leaning toward Ranger/Fighter, as Rangers seem to be pretty nasty.

And we've got a Halfling witch-doctor. What good is the Halflings' new Cajun flavor if you don't make a witch-doctor?

I love skills, and the Skill Training feat (being not limited to class skills) seems like an incredibly good deal. So all three characters will probably be taking it a significant amount. The Dragonborn less than the others.

So how should I build the witch-doctor? Multiclassing into Warlock doesn't give you the ability to Curse, does it? And hexing is pretty essential for a witch-doctor. But he's also supposed to be the team Controller. So, how well can a Halfling Warlock/Wizard work? What pact should he take? (Are all the Intelligence-benefited powers in one pact?)

Perhaps the Elf will be a Ranger who just dips one feat into Fighter multiclassing, then takes Swordmaster or another good Fighter PPath. But if he does that, he won't be much of a Defender. So I guess the Dragonborn, even though he's supposed to focus on being a Warlord, will have to be the de facto team Defender through his Paladin (or Fighter?) multiclassing.

Can I pull off a reasonable defender and leader in the same character? Or am I spreading myself too thin? And is it a waste to multiclass to get a bit of melee prowess on a primary Archer -- is he spreading himself too thin?

Rutee
2008-05-29, 01:47 PM
Well I don't have the books or the time to plow through dozens of threads searching.

That is a pretty weak feat...Ranger it is.

I agree, it is pretty suck. They shoulda learned and made it for a broader group of weapons this time around.

fendrin
2008-05-29, 02:05 PM
I agree, it is pretty suck. They shoulda learned and made it for a broader group of weapons this time around.

On the other hand, there are a lot less weapons now, correct? That at least mitigates the pain a little, compared to 'Oh darn, my weapon specialization in 'glaive' doesn't work with this nifty new +1 sushimaking ranseur of glowy awesomeness'.

I had initially been thinking that a warlock/ranger would be the ultimate ranged striker, until I realized that Eldritch Blast doesn't work with ranger powers by virtue of not being a weapon.

note: I'm only working off of preview material and KotS

Edea
2008-05-29, 08:21 PM
Question: do you get the warlock's curse with the multiclass feat? It doesn't explicitly call it out in the feat text, so I'm going with no, unless I see another in-text source saying otherwise...and that kinda bites, since the pacts from the feat don't really function without the curse ability. At least you get an encounter power out of it :(.