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Matthew
2008-06-02, 09:10 AM
So we have been enjoying a vigorous debate over on this thread [Generic] The Nature of Magic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81946) about impossible possible magic, but the more interesting things that were coming out of it were overshadowed by other aspects, so it wa suggested we start another thread to discuss what kind of magic is best suited for what kind of setting.

So, let's kick off discussion with Robert E. Howard's Conanstories (http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterH), as those are particularly interesting in their depiction of magic, taking dozens of different approaches.

The Phoenix on the Sword (1932) - Demon summoning, object realted magic
The Scarlet Citadel (1933) - Demonic spell caster, freaky otherworld monsters
The Tower of the Elephant (1933) - Kind of science fictiony otherwordly monster
Black Colossus (1933) - Sorcerous Magic
The Slithering Shadow (1933) - Highly technologically advanced society that appears to be magical, plus a bizarre otherworldy creature
The Pool of the Black One (1933) - A magical pool
Rogues in the House (1934) - Technological magic

I would have a hard time quantifying this sort of Swords & Sorcery magic as belonging to any particular typology. It takes place on a pre history earth, so it seems logical to assume the normal laws of physics are in play. Any thoughts about whether this is even categorisable?

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-02, 10:13 AM
What typologies are we using?

Also, you forgot People of the Black Circle (which has more sorcery than all other Conan stories by Howard put together, and explains several rules of sorcery) and Hour of the Dragon (which explains even more rules of Sorcery). It's pretty much impossible to list all the sorcery in those stories, but suffice to say that D&D's own phantom steed (mount? whatever) is from PotBC. Basically, it's the magic that most RPGs have always tried to emulate.

I don't, however, really see different types of magic in the books. It's pretty much all learned by a combination of meditative self-discipline, study of ancient lore, and pacts with demons or things from beyond the black gulfs of space (the last not being practiced by priests and the like). As far as I've noticed, deities do not grant magic directly - if they even exist - and magic-using priests are, instead, sorcerers.

It's important to note, of course, that all the magic is Lovecraftian magic, Howard being a Lovecraftian author.

D&D magic totally fails at portraying Howard's stuff, mostly because in D&D magic has no cost or risk associated to it; luckily Conan d20 has a freaking sublime magic system.

Matthew
2008-06-02, 10:33 AM
What typologies are we using?

That's what we're here to determine. Any suggestions?



Also, you forgot People of the Black Circle (which has more sorcery than all other Conan stories by Howard put together, and explains several rules of sorcery) and Hour of the Dragon (which explains even more rules of Sorcery). It's pretty much impossible to list all the sorcery in those stories, but suffice to say that D&D's own phantom steed (mount? whatever) is from PotBC. Basically, it's the magic that most RPGs have always tried to emulate.

I just listed the first half dozen or so books in publication order as a starting point (I didn't want to overwhelm). Impossible, ehy? :smallbiggrin: Let's take on that challenge!



I don't, however, really see different types of magic in the books. It's pretty much all learned by a combination of meditative self-discipline, study of ancient lore, and pacts with demons or things from beyond the black gulfs of space (the last not being practiced by priests and the like). As far as I've noticed, deities do not grant magic directly - if they even exist - and magic-using priests are, instead, sorcerers.

Indeed, me either. The deities definitely exist (well, almost definitely), as in Black Colossus one actually speaks to the princess.



It's important to note, of course, that all the magic is Lovecraftian magic, Howard being a Lovecraftian author.

Of course.



D&D magic totally fails at portraying Howard's stuff, mostly because in D&D magic has no cost or risk associated to it; luckily Conan d20 has a freaking sublime magic system.

Well, stupid old D20 D&D has no cost or risk. :smallwink: Anyway, we're going generic here, so feel free to discuss any system, including Conan D20 (which is damn good).