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View Full Version : Ganondorf with the One Ring in Fantasy worlds



DarthArminius
2008-06-02, 03:49 PM
How powerful would Ganondorf be, if he had the One Ring, and the Triforce of Power with him in many fantasy worlds, like Warhammer Fantasy, or even just Warcraft Fantasy, or D&D worlds?

EvilElitest
2008-06-02, 05:44 PM
what? I don't know what to say
from
EE

Shas aia Toriia
2008-06-02, 05:46 PM
Pretty much invincible. That's all I'm going to say.

DarthArminius
2008-06-02, 08:14 PM
Well..... I mean, doesn't Warhammer Fantasy have characters that can kill Apocalypse from Marvel Comics?

Killersquid
2008-06-02, 08:29 PM
As strong as he normally is and invisible. The One Ring only makes Sauron invincible when he wears it.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-02, 08:46 PM
As strong as he normally is and invisible. The One Ring only makes Sauron invincible when he wears it.

Isn't it heavily suggested that various other powers could, if they wished, take the ring for their own purposes(Gandalf, Galadriel), if given sufficient time? Of course, this is no guarantee that Ganondorf could do it, but it is a possibility.

Ceric
2008-06-02, 08:59 PM
Yeah, I think powerful people can use the Ring themselves. The hobbits aren't paticularly powerful, so the Ring only makes them invisible.

Obrysii
2008-06-02, 09:10 PM
As strong as he normally is and invisible. The One Ring only makes Sauron invincible when he wears it.

Tom Bombadil could turn the Ring invisible, and it held no sway over him.

archon_huskie
2008-06-02, 09:24 PM
Tom Bombadil could turn the Ring invisible, and it held no sway over him.

Yes, but what CAN'T Tom Bombadil do?

WalkingTarget
2008-06-02, 09:34 PM
Isn't it heavily suggested that various other powers could, if they wished, take the ring for their own purposes(Gandalf, Galadriel), if given sufficient time? Of course, this is no guarantee that Ganondorf could do it, but it is a possibility.

Heavily suggested in the narrative. Explicitly stated in his Letters (specifically Letter 246):

"Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master [Sauron] - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel'... it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond... If Gandalf [and theoretically any of the others] proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken for him forever."

Other detail from this section goes on about how in order to successfully defeat Sauron, one would have to become so much like him as to just set yourself up as another Dark Lord (yes, even Gandalf - actually Gandalf would be worse as at least with Sauron you could tell Good from Evil, Gandalf's rule would blur the lines). Not that Ganon has a lot to worry about there as he's already got that shtick down pretty well. I'm inclined to grant that the Triforce of Power would be enough of a bonus to allow him to claim the Ring, but that's my opinion.

The Ring has no power over Bombadil because Bombadil seeks no power over others. He doesn't have a hook for the Ring to get snag him with. From Letter 153: "He is master in a peculiar way: he has no fear, and no desire of possession or domination at all. He merely knows and understands about such things as concern him in his natural little realm... I don't think Tom needs philosophizing about, and is not improved by it... In historical fact I put him in because I had already 'invented' him independently (he first appeared in the Oxford Magazine) and wanted an 'adventure' on the way."

Obrysii
2008-06-03, 09:29 AM
Yes, but what CAN'T Tom Bombadil do?

"Power to defy our enemy is not within him, unless such powers are in the hills themselves. And yet we see him twist ..." I forget the rest of the line. But basically, Tom's an avatar of Arda, I think, so ...

Ecalsneerg
2008-06-03, 09:36 AM
Isn't it heavily suggested that various other powers could, if they wished, take the ring for their own purposes(Gandalf, Galadriel), if given sufficient time? Of course, this is no guarantee that Ganondorf could do it, but it is a possibility.

As one of the most powerful beings in his universe, I think he could. however, since he isn't a demigod like Gandalf, to use the Ring fully he'd have to get a piece of Triforce, I reckon.

DarthArminius
2008-06-03, 12:27 PM
As one of the most powerful beings in his universe, I think he could. however, since he isn't a demigod like Gandalf, to use the Ring fully he'd have to get a piece of Triforce, I reckon.


Thats why he gets his signature Triforce of Power piece in the OP.

Mr.Silver
2008-06-03, 03:04 PM
Well..... I mean, doesn't Warhammer Fantasy have characters that can kill Apocalypse from Marvel Comics?
Possibly, although it would probably depend on magically banishing into the realm of Chaos or some other shadowy void.


As for Ganondorf, I'm not entirely sure. I don't know if the full extent of the Ring's powers were ever established other than invisibility and slowed ageing. Any other powers were only vaguely hinted at. The Triforce is more of a useful tool for him really.
He'd probably be a very big threat in the Warcraft world, since the power-level there is fairly low. Warhammer though I wouldn't peg him as getting too far unless he gave himself going over to chaos. The world has a fair few beings of comparable magical strength and the very nature of Warhammer magic is going to be putting him at some risk when he's casting his own spells. I doubt he'd be able to get enough of a monster army following to establish himself as a real power.
As for D&D, if what I've heard about Epic Level characters is accurate he'd probably be getting smacked around a lot.

mentatzarkon
2008-06-03, 03:11 PM
Remember that the rings of power give power in proportion to the might of their owner. Also this seems pretty dependent on the personality of the owner. So for Gollum, for example, it gave him the power to be sneaky, nasty and uhhh schizo... For Bilbo it gave him long life and the power to play hilarious pranks on Hobbits...So for Ganondorf...I'm going to go ahead and say...Ultra death pig!

Illiterate Scribe
2008-06-03, 03:17 PM
Fantasy characters, packing rings that are fairly unusual to them normally?

I have just the ticket.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6186/greenlanternprimecf7.jpg

tyckspoon
2008-06-03, 05:26 PM
As for Ganondorf, I'm not entirely sure. I don't know if the full extent of the Ring's powers were ever established other than invisibility and slowed ageing. Any other powers were only vaguely hinted at. The Triforce is more of a useful tool for him really.
He'd probably be a very big threat in the Warcraft world, since the power-level there is fairly low. Warhammer though I wouldn't peg him as getting too far unless he gave himself going over to chaos. The world has a fair few beings of comparable magical strength and the very nature of Warhammer magic is going to be putting him at some risk when he's casting his own spells. I doubt he'd be able to get enough of a monster army following to establish himself as a real power.


This strikes me as rather weird, because of what was stated in previous threads involving Warcraft-sourced people. According to them, Warcraft is stuffed* with powerful people, especially at the top end. Ganon can compete with them (especially with an unquantifiable boost from the Ring), but it's not likely he can outright top them. Meanwhile the average level of Warhammer is much lower. Ganon would have been a Lord-level character (probably stat up something like a vampire lord.. vicious killer combat stats, relatively low magic) even before he picked up the Triforce and got his enhanced magic and demon pig thing going. Sure, there are beings like the Elf Twins and Archaon the Marty-Stu of Spikiness, but they're rare and singular. Ganon can stomp all over most any non-special character.

I think the Ring would function like it did for Sauron, btw- as a bulwark against the costs and risks of doing magic. In Warhammer, that might translate to the game rules as something like 'The Ring provides Ganon with three power dice each magic phase. These dice cannot cause a miscast.'

Frosty
2008-06-03, 05:38 PM
Now, what if Ganon had the ring AND all three Triforces instead of just the one of Power? Would might that change things?

Echowinds
2008-06-03, 05:54 PM
In that case, he would force Zelda in his own private harem and torture Link for amusement.

...

Mr.Silver
2008-06-03, 06:17 PM
This strikes me as rather weird, because of what was stated in previous threads involving Warcraft-sourced people. According to them, Warcraft is stuffed* with powerful people, especially at the top end.Ganon can compete with them (especially with an unquantifiable boost from the Ring), but it's not likely he can outright top them. Meanwhile the average level of Warhammer is much lower.
I haven't checked the versus threads on it (I think they were a bit before my time) but I have played through the games a fair few times (not WoW though). The most powerful guy in the Warcraft World is the Lich King, who is of a similar power level to the Warhammer character Nagash, magically rather than physically (it's worth noting that Warcraft is heavily influenced by Warhammer, so you will find analogous characters). Below him though the power level in Warcraft starts dropping considerably. Thrall, Jaina, Furion etc. are all fairly powerful but the Warhammer World has stronger characters and a lot of them.



Ganon would have been a Lord-level character (probably stat up something like a vampire lord.. vicious killer combat stats, relatively low magic) even before he picked up the Triforce and got his enhanced magic and demon pig thing going. Sure, there are beings like the Elf Twins and Archaon the Marty-Stu of Spikiness, but they're rare and singular. Ganon can stomp all over most any non-special character.
It's worth noting however that hardly any Lord Characters, special or otherwise, can go up against a full army, either in the game rules or in the fluff (not since Nagash's last death anyway). As for the non-special characters bear in mind that this includes the Slann. The second generation Slann. As in, the guys who, if they pull together, can shift continents. I wouldn't fancy his chances against a couple of Greater Daemons either. Then there's the whole case of items like Van Horstmann's Speculum or the Brass Orb.
Even just within special characters though there's quite a few. Lord Kroak, Malekith, Zacharias, Morghur, Orion, the Green Knight, possibly even Gringor Ironhide or Crom the Conquerer all come to mind. Unless he could get a decent force together Gannondorf wouldn't be able to be that much of a threat.

DarthArminius
2008-06-03, 06:22 PM
I haven't checked the versus threads on it (I think they were a bit before my time) but I have played through the games a fair few times (not WoW though). The most powerful guy in the Warcraft World is the Lich King, who is of a similar power level to the Warhammer character Nagash, magically rather than physically (it's worth noting that Warcraft is heavily influenced by Warhammer, so you will find analogous characters). Below him though the power level in Warcraft starts dropping considerably. Thrall, Jaina, Furion etc. are all fairly powerful but the Warhammer World has stronger characters and a lot of them.


It's worth noting however that hardly any Lord Characters, special or otherwise, can go up against a full army, either in the game rules or in the fluff (not since Nagash's last death anyway). As for the non-special characters bear in mind that this includes the Slann. The second generation Slann. As in, the guys who, if they pull together, can shift continents. I wouldn't fancy his chances against a couple of Greater Daemons either. Then there's the whole case of items like Van Horstmann's Speculum or the Brass Orb.
Even just within special characters though there's quite a few. Lord Kroak, Malekith, Zacharias, Morghur, Orion, the Green Knight, possibly even Gringor Ironhide or Crom the Conquerer all come to mind. Unless he could get a decent force together Gannondorf wouldn't be able to be that much of a threat.


He could get Moblin, Gerudos, and Stalfos together.

Mr.Silver
2008-06-03, 06:28 PM
He could get Moblin, Gerudos, and Stalfos together.

All of which are native to Hyrule, and not generally found wandering around other fantasy worlds. Not really an option.

hylian chozo
2008-06-03, 06:32 PM
He could get Moblin, Gerudos, and Stalfos together.

Those troops are pathetic compared to most warhammer armies. Maybe if his army was composed exclusively of all the bosses in the series... probably not even then.

That said, Ganondorf is still really powerful now. Likely on par with a god in other settings.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-03, 06:40 PM
Remember that the Hyrul version infiltrated the command structure of the kingdom and then subverted it for his own purposes. He might be able to do that again with a Warhammer faction(it would likely take longer, though).

Oslecamo
2008-06-03, 07:02 PM
Even just within special characters though there's quite a few. Lord Kroak, Malekith, Zacharias, Morghur, Orion, the Green Knight, possibly even Gringor Ironhide or Crom the Conquerer all come to mind. Unless he could get a decent force together Gannondorf wouldn't be able to be that much of a threat.

Countless times Gandonorf has been slain, only to reapear several years later, and rebuild his empire of evil out of nothing. He's a master corrupter by himself, and the one ring is known to greatly enanche the persuasive capacities of the wearer.

Altough he probably couldn't take an army of high level beings by himself, he could probably corrupt several nations and turn them in his pupets in no time if he had the ring.

Remember, even in LOTR the ring was specially known as a comanding tool. Sauron's greatest fear was that among his adversaries someone would take the ring and use it to rally every other faction under his/her comand.

Instead of a king, you would have a queen, not fearfull but beatifull, treacherous as the sea, stronger than the roots of the earth. For me all shall love and despair.

Being strong is good. But controling strong people is much better.

Mr.Silver
2008-06-03, 07:10 PM
Remember that the Hyrul version infiltrated the command structure of the kingdom and then subverted it for his own purposes. He might be able to do that again with a Warhammer faction(it would likely take longer, though).

Unlikely. For one thing, most civilisations in Warhammer tend to have groups dedicated to finding and brutally murdering corrupting influences. Those that don't tend to be really viciously cut-throat in their approach to power. This is even getting around the fact that the Warhammer world's inhabitants are pretty damn racist and Ganondorf isn't a member of any of them, so his chances of getting anywhere here are pretty small. As for any corrupting powers, bear in mind that the Chaos gods haven't been able to pull-this off since the Sundering and they've had millenia to work with.

DarthArminius
2008-06-03, 07:22 PM
Who's to say he couldn't just use goblins to do his work first?