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MeklorIlavator
2008-06-03, 07:13 PM
I'm making a character for an eberron game(Eyes of the Lich Queen, no spoilers please), and would like some help. Here's the character so far:Krellic (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=638)
Summary: Whisper Gnome Rogue 3/Wizard2(Taken as rogue 2/wizard 2/rogue 2)
STR 8
DEX 18
CON 10
WIS 8
INT 18
CHA 12
I have taken Penetrating strike.

Now, I'm thinking either Crossbow Sniper or Weapon Finesse is a must, but which one? And what should I take as my first level feat if I go with Weapon Finesse?

As for my spells, I'm thinking of specializing in Divination(Ban evocation), with the following spell list(2nd and 3rd are future picks), but do you have any suggestions?
0st
All(notable ones below)
Prestidigitation
Detect Magic
Arcane Mark
Message
Mage Hand
1st
Identify(Div)
Vigilant Slumber(Complete Mage, Div)
Grease
Expeditious Retreat
Ray of Enfeeblement
Charm Person
Silent Image
Obscuring Mist
Color Spray
2st
Arcane Turmoil(Comp Mage, Abj)
Detect Thoughts(Comp Mage, Div)


3st
Arcane Sight(Div)

Chronos
2008-06-03, 07:51 PM
The three biggest omissions I see in your spell list:

0: Acid Splash. The damage isn't much, but you can stack Sneak Attack on it, and it ignores armor, saves, and SR.

1: Reduce Person. Being smaller is good for rogues, it's good for wizards, and it's especially good for a combination of the two. It's +2 to Dex, which translates to +1 on AC, attacks, Ref saves, and many skills, plus another +1 to AC and attacks, plus another +4 to Hide.

2: Blur. Blur gives concealment, which means you can hide, which means that (with your insanely good Hide mod) you're unseeable. It's better than Invisibility, since it stays on if you attack, and it's lower level than Improved Invisibility.

monty
2008-06-03, 07:56 PM
How about Blur AND Mirror Image? Not only do they have a 50% miss chance, they only have a 1 in 1d4+(CL/3) chance of even attacking the right one.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-03, 08:23 PM
Blur only gives a 20% miss chance, but combine that with reduce person and I have a +24 to hide. I think I'll be all right.

monty
2008-06-03, 08:26 PM
Oh yeah, I was thinking of Displacement for some reason. Still, I've found Mirror Image to be better.

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-06-03, 09:15 PM
I only wonder why so many rogue levels? Certainly Rogue 1/Wizard 4 or 5 would get you in just as well.

And as for Weapon Finesse and Crossbow Sniper, why? That's the point of spells, so you don't have to do that. A casting of Scorching Ray is going to be far superior. Even Acid Splash is better.

Cast spells with SA on them, don't use a Crossbow, and sure as heck don't waste any feats.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-03, 09:58 PM
Ah, but what do I send my feat on? And I need the rogue levels to get the 8 ranks in Hide, Search, Spot, and 4 in Sense Motive. I could move my wizard level up one, but then what do I use my 1st level feat for?

Kurald Galain
2008-06-04, 04:54 AM
And I need the rogue levels to get the 8 ranks in Hide, Search, Spot, and 4 in Sense Motive.

Not really. According to the multiclassing rules, once you have a level in rogue (and your first level should definitely be in rogue, for the x4 skill points), your skill cap for all skills on the rogue's list remains the full "level +3" regardless of what other classes you take. And you've got plenty of intelligence to stack up the skill points.

The best lead-in for Unseen Seer is really just one rogue level.

In terms of feats, you'll definitely want Weapon Finesse, because Crossbow Sniper isn't all that great (and neither is its prereq, Weapon Focus). Besides, as an unseen seer, you'll probably want to use ranged spells rather than crossbows.

For your first-level feat, I'd suggest Craven (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Craven).

If I were you, I'd specialize in conjuration rather than divination, because that gives you an extra Acid Splash, Orb, or other ranged damage spell each level each day.

There are a few alternative class features for wizards worth looking into, particularly the martial wizard (trade Scribe Scroll for a fighter bonus feat, like Imp Initiative), and the (admittedly cheesy) Abrupt Jaunt.

Finally, in terms of spells, there's always Swift Invisibility (PHB2) for a free sneak attack whenever you want it. PHB2 has other swift spells worth considering.

Keld Denar
2008-06-04, 06:50 AM
Yea, you have no spells that qualify for SA. I'd pick up the above mentioned Acid Splash, as well as one of the Lesser Orbs. Cloud of Knives is a GREAT SA spell as well. A feat to consider would be the Reserve feat Acid Splatter. This lets you hold a spell in reserve to power an all day ranged touch attack that you qualify for SA with. That's pretty decent for a character designed to SA with spells.

bigbaddragon
2008-06-04, 12:11 PM
Hunter's eye spell from PHB 2. Divination spell that gives d6 SA per 3 CL which stacks with your existing SA. Seeking Ray from the same book is a nice choice to if you are going to focus on rays.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-04, 07:24 PM
This is the book list, so no craven.
Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook 2
Dungeon Master's Guide
Dungeon Master's Guide 2
Monster Manuel
Monster Manuel 4
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Magic of Incarnum
Tome of Magic
Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Arcane
Complete Adventurer
Complete Psionic
Complete Mage
Complete Champion
Complete Scoundrel
Races of the Wild
Races of Stone
Races of Destiny
Races of the Dragon
Races of Eberron
Eberron Campaign Setting
Dragonmarked
Sharn, City of Towers
Secrets of Xen'drik
Secrets of Sarlona
Magic of Eberron
Faiths of Eberron
Five Nations
Explorer's Handbook
Player's Guide to Eberron
Sandstorm
Frostburn
Stormwrack
Dungeonscape
Libris Mortis
Lords of Madness
Draconomicon
Heroes of Battle
Forgotton Realms Campaign Setting

But on skill points: it still costs 2 sp for skills not on your current list, which means I'd spend all the wizards skill points raising up those, leaving none for spellcraft, thus delaying the build. Plus, that would damage my skills even more heavily than they are right now. rog2 Wiz 3 could work(rogue levels at either end). And that would get me 2nd level spells, of course I would lose 1d6 sneak attack and penetrating strike. Perhaps my first level feat should be Open Minded? Extra skill points, but unfortunately at a level where the benefit is minimal.

And while Conj would give me more damage spells, it requires another lost school. Considering the character, Necromancy seems the best choice, but you do lose some nice spells with that(ray of enfeeblement for starters.)

And those are some nice spell. Adding them to the spell book shouldn't be to hard, and the DM did make things a bit easier.

Oh, and I have 4 more points: Should I go for higher dex, Con, or Str?

bigbaddragon
2008-06-05, 02:05 AM
But on skill points: it still costs 2 sp for skills not on your current list, which means I'd spend all the wizards skill points raising up those, leaving none for spellcraft, thus delaying the build. Plus, that would damage my skills even more heavily than they are right now. rog2 Wiz 3 could work(rogue levels at either end). And that would get me 2nd level spells, of course I would lose 1d6 sneak attack and penetrating strike. Perhaps my first level feat should be Open Minded? Extra skill points, but unfortunately at a level where the benefit is minimal.


To solve skill points issue you should consider going human and taking Able Learner feat from Races of Destiny which lets you buy cross class skills for one skill point instead of two. So with rogue 1/ wizard 4 you should be able to qualify for Unseen Seer with ease.

As for your school orientation my friend made an Unseen Seer a while ago and he went for Divination banning Evocation and he did pretty good. He even took a trait (can't remember its name) that raises his caster level by 1 for one school but lowers it by 1 for all other schools. Main tactics was to use Glitterdust and Grease or Improved Invisibility with (extended) Hunter's Eye to get the most of his SA. And for the occasions we faced single tough monster he made heavy use of Ray of Enfeeblement.

marjan
2008-06-05, 03:09 PM
Whisper Gnome Rogue 3/Wizard2(Taken as rogue 2/wizard 2/rogue

As others have pointed out Rogue1/Wizard4 is better. Alternatively, if you have problems with skills go with Rogue2/Wizard3, or just be a human and take Able Learner.



STR 8
DEX 18
CON 10
WIS 8
INT 18
CHA 12


I cannot help but notice that you have 10 con. Either switch it with CHA, if you rolled your stats, or reduce DEX and pump con a bit. If neither of this is possible stay out of charging distance of enemies (and forget about sneak attack).



I have taken Penetrating strike.

Now, I'm thinking either Crossbow Sniper or Weapon Finesse is a must, but which one? And what should I take as my first level feat if I go with Weapon Finesse?


Both of those suck for you. Crossbow Sniper has crapy requirements and you don't want to bring your d4 HD in melee, so Weapon Finesse sucks also.

If you leave your CON at 10 I would also forget about Penetrating Strike.



As for my spells, I'm thinking of specializing in Divination(Ban evocation), with the following spell list(2nd and 3rd are future picks), but do you have any suggestions?


As others have pointed out you should put some ranged touch spells there to get your sneak attack. As for spells level I would take Glitterdust and either Stinking Cloud or Unluck. Specializing in divination is ok, IMO, though Conjuration is still better.

Now feats:
Practiced Spellcaster is always good to make up for lost CLs.

If you take Practiced Spellcaster as your lvl3 feat you can take planar familiar at level six. This won't do much until level 7 but then you can take Lantern Archon as your familiar, which is good for the following:
- it has 2 touch-DR ignoring rays. They deal crappy d6 dmg, but if you take Hunter's Eye it will apply to them also as long as it is within 5ft of you.
- constant Magic Circle Against Evil - this might not be that good if you're not fighting evil enemies most of the time, but it doesn't hurt.
- teleport at will as Su which means it won't be that easy to kill
- at will: Aid(meaning that you can have Aid constantly on all party members), Detect Evil (bad guys are easier to find) and Continual Flame (since it ignores material components you can make these, sell them at 25gp each, earn fortune and force your DM to smack you. Alternatively just make those for personal use - more DM-friendly option)
- outsider. This mostly matters if you want to (ab)use Polymorph line of spells, which I wouldn't recommend.
- Tongues effect constantly, so it can act as party translator.
- Aura of Menace - yes it's crappy DC, but note that familiar uses your HD as his own so this will go higher as you level. And still even if it is crappy DC someone will eventually fail it.

If you plan on sniping Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are good.

Improved Initiative is good to make sure that you can unload that SA in first round for free.

Extend Spell is also option.

Chronos
2008-06-05, 03:58 PM
He even took a trait (can't remember its name) that raises his caster level by 1 for one school but lowers it by 1 for all other schools.That's a class feature of the Unseen Seer. It increases CL by 1 for divinations, and decreases it by 1 for everything else. This is especially good if you happen to have Practiced Spellcaster anyway (not a bad idea, since most Unseen Seer builds will have some non-caster levels).

marjan
2008-06-05, 04:20 PM
That's a class feature of the Unseen Seer. It increases CL by 1 for divinations, and decreases it by 1 for everything else. This is especially good if you happen to have Practiced Spellcaster anyway (not a bad idea, since most Unseen Seer builds will have some non-caster levels).

As he said also Spellgifted trait. Though I wouldn't take it if you plan to take Unseen Seer 10 since you would be few CL behind with non-divination spells even with Practiced Spellcaster.

MeklorIlavator
2008-06-05, 09:16 PM
Okay, some changes have been made(changes shown):
STR 8
DEX 18
CON 14
WIS 8
INT 18
CHA 12

Class levels: R/W/W/W/R
Feats
1st-?
Practiced Spellcaster-3rd
Specialization-Conjuration(Ban Evocation and Necro)
Take abrupt jaunt(It is really good, isn't it)

0st
All(notable ones below)
Prestidigitation
Detect Magic
Arcane Mark
Message
Mage Hand
acid splash
1st
Identify(Div)
Vigilant Slumber(Complete Mage, Div)
Grease
Expeditious Retreat
Orb of x(Cold, Sonic, or acid?)
Charm Person
Silent Image
Obscuring Mist
Color Spray
Reduce Person

2nd
Cloud of Knives(PHB2, Conj)
Arcane Turmoil(Comp Mage, Abj)
Detect Thoughts(Comp Mage, Div)
Glitterdust
Blur


3rd
Arcane Sight(Div)

Italics means I will be paying for the spell.
I still need to change the skills around, but that should be done shortly.

Kurald Galain
2008-06-06, 03:52 AM
Feats
1st-?
When in doubt, take Improved Initiative. Flat footed = free sneak attack.

Rad
2008-06-06, 04:37 AM
Any spell you cast can only have a single sneak attack made on it (CArc.) so having a bow or other conventional weapon could allow for multiple SA in a round.
On the other hand, I would consider getting a reserve feat that can be made into a SA. It's nice to have something that keeps going even for worthless mooks without picking up a rock and calling it an improvised weapon.

marjan
2008-06-06, 10:37 AM
Also don't forget that you can trade Scribe Scroll for fighter bonus feat at lvl1.