PDA

View Full Version : Cloistered Cleric Build (Total Newbie)



Sage
2008-06-04, 08:06 AM
Friend's setting up a 3.5 D & D game via IM, and asked me to play. I've never played before, though I've spent a lot of time lurking here.

I think I want to be a Cloistered Cleric. Human, deity is Boccob, Domains are Knowledge, Magic and Trickery. She's helped me set up that much, and will probably help with more. Books available are PHB, everything on the SRD, Complete Arcane and probably some other she hasn't mentioned.

I'm basically just looking for some pointers. Want to avoid being overpowered (Clericzilla?), but I'd like the option to do more than just buff/heal if things go south. Only other confirmed character so far is another newbie, going Ranger/Rogue. I'll probably be more of a buffer/healer/skillmonkey than a main damage-dealer.

From what I've seen, the Able Learner feat is suggested for Divine skillmonkeys. What book is that from?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Solo
2008-06-04, 08:09 AM
To figure out where you want to go with your character, you must first ask yourself: "What do I want to do?"

So, what is it that you want to do?

Sage
2008-06-04, 08:19 AM
Have to head to work.

But basically...heal when necessary, and be able to avoid combat if possible, either by trickery or superior planning.

Character dislikes violence and likes learning as much as he can about as much as he can. Doesn't really like hurting people. Trying to work with that a bit more.

I know it's vague, but maybe I'll come up with more stuff as I think on it more. She pitched the idea to me last night.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-04, 08:21 AM
Playing as a CC will stop you from being as effective in combat. I know this probably won't fit in with your character concept, but taking the Healing Domain and the Improved Domain feat (page 32 of http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf ) would allow you to cast Cure spells from a distance, which would be useful considering how low CC's AC is compared with normal Clerics. Looking at some other Domains would probably help if you want more damage-dealing or battlefield control spells: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Spells-ClericalDomains.pdf .

riddles
2008-06-04, 08:49 AM
it won't stop you from being effective in combat. it makes you slightly less effective.

you still have access to the CoDZilla spells - divine favour, divine power, righteous might and to extend and quicken.

you lose - heavy armour (when you're so heavily buffed it doesn't matter) and 1 hp/level

avoiding these spells is a good start

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-04, 09:02 AM
The problem with those spells is that they don't fit in with Sage's character concept, and getting them would require 3 feat slots assuming your Cha is high enough to grant enough Turnings to use Persist (also CCs lose shield proficiency while only having Wizard BAB, so they would need something cheesy like that to avoid becoming a liability on the frontline).

Ecalsneerg
2008-06-04, 11:37 AM
From what I've seen, the Able Learner feat is suggested for Divine skillmonkeys. What book is that from?

Races of Destiny, human or doppleganger only.

Basically, you pay one point for cross-class skills subject to normal skill caps, so a dip in Factotum, Rogue or Ranger from Dungeonscape grants you a great skill list. It's also a useful way to become a trapfinder, as all three classes can get it (Ranger variant in Dungeonscape, also the Factotum is from there if you're interested)

Keld Denar
2008-06-04, 11:59 AM
If you aren't planning on multiclassing out of cleric/clericy PrCs, I'd recommend against Able Learner. The important skills will be class skills throughout your whole career.

You know what sounds like a good fit for you though? Something like
Cloistered Cleric5/Divine Oracle2/Loremaster10 followed by some stuff. That gets you the whole Sagey feel. Divine Oracle is in Complete Divine. If you go human, you'd be looking at something like:

1 C Cleric1 Extend Spell, Skill Focus:Knowledge Religion
2 C Cleric2
3 C Cleric3 Craft Wonderous Item
4 C Cleric4
5 C Cleric5
6 Divine Oracle 1 Craft Magical Arms/Armor or any Metamagic Feat (sculpt?)
7 Divine Oracle 2
8 Loremaster 1
9 Loremaster 2 Divine Ward or Divine Spell Power
10 Loremaster 3
11 Loremaster 4
12 Loremaster 5

etc...

Loremaster gives you UMD as a class skill, max it out as soon as you are able to without neglecting Concentration. This gives you access to a whole bunch of fun stuff in the form of wands, scrolls, and any staves you may find. Especially a Runestave that would give you regular access to a number of neato wizard spells.

For spells, take a number of buffs and spells that remove status afflictions. You can always convert spells for cures. Powerful buffs include Shield of Faith, Conviction, and Bless/Prayer (short term) and Magic Vestaments, Greater Magic Weapon, and things like Extended Magic Circle vs Evil.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-04, 12:21 PM
This won't fit your character concept, but I've got an urge to try playing as a Kobold Cloistered Cleric with the Trickery and Kobold Domains while using the Apprentice feat to get Move Silently and Open Lock as class skills (the Kobold Domain grants Trapfinding, Search and Disable Device, so this build would be great for sealth and trap disarming).

Telonius
2008-06-04, 12:53 PM
Have to head to work.

But basically...heal when necessary, and be able to avoid combat if possible, either by trickery or superior planning.

Character dislikes violence and likes learning as much as he can about as much as he can. Doesn't really like hurting people. Trying to work with that a bit more.

I know it's vague, but maybe I'll come up with more stuff as I think on it more. She pitched the idea to me last night.

Have you considered being an Archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) instead?


The archivist is a more academic profession than the cleric or paladin but hardier and more worldly than the average cloistered wizard. Due to the exploratory and often dangerous nature of their work, archivists develop techniques for safeguarding themselves and their allies from the foul taint that so often surrounds and accompanies the lost or forbidden lore they seek. Archivists are thus exceptional support characters, bolstering the efforts of those who aid them in their scholarly pursuits.

...

Tactics: The archivist knows the general combat behaviors of creatures of that race, granting his allies a +1 bonus on attack rolls made against them. For example, an archivist confronted by corruption eaters* who succeeded on his Knowledge (dungeoneering) check would grant his allies the attack bonus against all the corruption eaters they fought in that encounter. If the archivist succeeds on his Knowledge check by 10 or more, then this bonus increases to +2. If the archivist succeeds on his Knowledge check by 20 or more, then this bonus increases to +3.

...

Archivists are not especially potent front-line fighters and will often hang back with the wizards when combat arises. They are sturdier and usually better armored than their arcane counterparts, however, and boldly stride into combat when necessary (for example, when it means defending one who is weaker or easier to hit).

...

If PCs are likely to face foes who have secret weaknesses, there can be an enormous benefit in recruiting an archivist. An archivist can often provide information about a foe's weaknesses that spells the difference between failure and success against that adversary.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-04, 12:59 PM
That is a good point, Telonius (I'd forgotten about those). The class is sometimes considered to be broken due to how many different spells they can learn, so would my fix work? (It involves limiting the Archivist to Cleric spells and spells from 2 Domains which must be chosen when the Archivist is first picking spells when they gain a new spell level while using Int for bonus spells).

Telonius
2008-06-04, 01:13 PM
Well, I'm not sure if that would unduly nerf the Archivist, relative to the Cleric. (Though Clerics do deserve a few whacks with the nerf-bat). I'd rather see a different limit; some possiblities would be only allowing non-Cleric spells up to half of the Cleric spell levels allowed. So if you have 4th-level Cleric spells, you can only have 2nd-level Wizard spells in your prayerbook. Or, require an XP cost to put non-Cleric spells into the book.

But since this is really for a newbie campaign, if you are going to play an Archivist, the simplest thing would be to use the class as-is, and not go nuts at Ye Olde Scroll Shoppe.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-04, 01:19 PM
I like those ideas (would you allow that with the "Int used for bonus spell" change as well? I don't honestly like the fluff reason for Archivists using Wis for Int, and my idea was to make it easier for them to have the same number of spells/day as a normal Specialist Wizard).

Chronos
2008-06-04, 01:38 PM
You know what sounds like a good fit for you though? Something like
Cloistered Cleric5/Divine Oracle2/Loremaster10 followed by some stuff.Much though I like Loremaster, it's not a good fit for Cloistered Cleric. The base class gets more skill points, and already has Lore, negating two of Loremaster's major benefits.

Draz74
2008-06-04, 02:48 PM
If you aren't planning on multiclassing out of cleric/clericy PrCs, I'd recommend against Able Learner. The important skills will be class skills throughout your whole career.

Depends. The Trickery Domain doesn't give you Move Silently as a class skill. So if you want to be sneaky and be able to move silently, or take other skills that aren't Cloistered Cleric class skills, Able Learner would indeed save you a lot of wasted skill points.

Even then, though, you'd have the standard cross-class limit on number of ranks in Move Silently and similar skills. So even with Able Learner, you wouldn't really be good at those skills if all of your levels are in Cloistered Cleric. To increase this cap up to the normal maximum, you would indeed have to take a multiclass level in something like Rogue. If you do so, of course, Able Learner becomes an even better option.

Oh, and I second what Chronos said: Cloistered Cleric doesn't so much need Prestige Classes added to it, especially for a new player.

Temp.
2008-06-04, 07:34 PM
Much though I like Loremaster, it's not a good fit for Cloistered Cleric. The base class gets more skill points, and already has Lore, negating two of Loremaster's major benefits. And with the Magic Domain, the UMD skill loses much of its appeal.

If you want to dedicate effort into healing and buffing, these feats are probably going to be useful*:

Healing:

Touch of Healing (CChamp):Heal allies up to half HP without spending spells. Very nice for obvious reasons.
Augment Healing (CDiv):+2 HP per spell level added to your healing spells. It's great at low levels, sort of "meh" later in your career.
Sacred Healing: (CDiv): Fast Healing 3 for 1+Cha rounds. Costs a Turn Undead attempt.


Buffing:

Extend Spell: Can reduce the number of spells you need to cast in a day.
Reach Spell (CDiv):+2 SL metamagic turns Touch spells into ranged spells.
Chain Spell (CArc):+3 SL metamagic allows ranged spells to affect your whole party.


General:

Quicken Spell is required at either 9th or 12th level. There is no getting around it.
Divine Metamagic (CDiv): Even if you don't want DMM (Persist), it works nicely with Quicken Spell, Reach Spell and Extend Spell.
Sculpt Spell (CArc): Improves your control of area-of-effect spells.

*This list basically consists of the first feats to come to my mind in each area. I'm not claiming that there are no better options available.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-05, 12:40 AM
How many times/day can Healing Touch be used? It sounds really useful.

Chronicled
2008-06-05, 10:27 AM
How many times/day can Healing Touch be used? It sounds really useful.

As long as you have a healing spell left to cast, it has no max uses per day.

marjan
2008-06-05, 10:33 AM
How many times/day can Healing Touch be used? It sounds really useful.

It's reserve feat so it can be used as long as you have healing spells available to cast, but it heals only 3hp per level of spell so it's not good for use in combat.
I'd go with Pool of Healing if you want more healing in your build. It's sort of mini-heal once per day at the cost of one 4th level spell slot. And it won't cost you a feat.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-05, 12:25 PM
Thanks for telling me. That sounds really powerful as long as you keep a CLW in stock at all times.

marjan
2008-06-05, 02:33 PM
Thanks for telling me. That sounds really powerful as long as you keep a CLW in stock at all times.

If you are implying that you can power Healing Touch with wand than I'm afraid you're wrong. You don't have spell available to cast, you have item available to activate.

And it's not really powerful feat. The most healing you can get from it is ~30 (and this is only by using Sanctum Spell, Earthen Spell or some similar feat) so it is not very good option in combat. So it just means that you don't have to spend your money on wands, or healing belts to heal between fights.

Chronos
2008-06-05, 03:12 PM
If you are implying that you can power Healing Touch with wand than I'm afraid you're wrong. You don't have spell available to cast, you have item available to activate.You do realize, do you not, that CLW comes in form other than wands?

But it requires a healing spell of at least 2nd level held in reserve, so it has to be CMW you hold onto, not CLW.


And it's not really powerful feat. The most healing you can get from it is ~30 (and this is only by using Sanctum Spell, Earthen Spell or some similar feat) so it is not very good option in combat. So it just means that you don't have to spend your money on wands, or healing belts to heal between fights.Most forms of healing aren't a very good option in combat. It's usually better to spend your in-combat actions to end the fight, anyway, and then heal afterwards.

marjan
2008-06-05, 03:24 PM
You do realize, do you not, that CLW comes in form other than wands?


Yes, now I realize that I said a few pretty dumb things.:smallredface:



Most forms of healing aren't a very good option in combat. It's usually better to spend your in-combat actions to end the fight, anyway, and then heal afterwards.

While healing isn't usually best option in combat, sometimes it is. And in those rare situations this feat sucks.

Chronos
2008-06-05, 03:42 PM
While healing isn't usually best option in combat, sometimes it is. And in those rare situations this feat sucks.No, that just means that in those situations you use some other method of healing, like a Heal spell. And the feat still helps there, since it has the side effect of giving you a +1 to caster level on all of your healing spells.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-06, 12:57 AM
I did mean Cure Light Wounds when I said CLW. I agree about it not being that good at al in combat, but if it can be used infinite times as long as you have a CMW in stock, it sounds really good outside of combat.

happyturtle
2008-06-06, 06:39 AM
If you want to be a real know-it-all, take the feat Obscure Lore. It adds +4 to your 'bardic knowledge' (which I renamed 'scholar's knowledge' for my cloistered cleric). Then max out Knowledge (history) and by 2nd level you'll get another +2 synergy bonus on the scholar's knowledge. Also, put at least one point in each knowledge skill as they can't be used untrained... basically, if it exists, you've read about it somewhere.

I freaking LOVE my cloistered cleric. With her low BAB and strength penalty, she doesn't even bother carrying a weapon anymore. She's strictly healing and party support, and definitely the knowledge monkey of the party.