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View Full Version : Adding a template to a mindless vermin



Lochar
2008-06-04, 08:08 AM
Adding the fiendish template to a mindless vermin, the template states the creature will have an Int minimum of 3. Which means that it now gains feats. So I get to assign feats at the standard 1 + 1/3 HD, right?

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-04, 08:31 AM
Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged.

By becoming a magical beast, I would say that it should gain an Intelligence score. But since I've never seen any sort of guidelines for figuring out what the ability score would be for a creature that didn't previously have it, I guess the Intelligence would just be 3 then.

But yes, since Fiendish is an inherited template, that means that your Fiendish Spiders and Centipedes or whatever should have gained their skills and feats as any magical beast would.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-04, 08:46 AM
That looks about right. They become magical beasts, get an Int score, and get feats.

It's a handy template.

its_all_ogre
2008-06-04, 08:56 AM
add half dragon template (pervert dragons) and you gain colossal scorpion half dragon. int - +2!

SoD
2008-06-04, 09:03 AM
By becoming a magical beast, I would say that it should gain an Intelligence score. But since I've never seen any sort of guidelines for figuring out what the ability score would be for a creature that didn't previously have it, I guess the Intelligence would just be 3 then.

But yes, since Fiendish is an inherited template, that means that your Fiendish Spiders and Centipedes or whatever should have gained their skills and feats as any magical beast would.

I've started a similar thread, about adding a template to a mindless vermin (only I wanted a half-dragon wasp [but said ant, in case my players saw it]). There was much debate on weather you could add +x whatever to an original score of -.

Lochar
2008-06-04, 09:55 AM
It does say:

Abilities: Same as the base creature, but Intelligence is at least 3.

So I would think that overrides the Int -. I'll go with the feats. It makes it more fun on my players.

SadisticFishing
2008-06-04, 11:34 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm

No feats.

Also, "A fiendish creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill points if its type changes."

Using the same statistics means no feats.

Lochar
2008-06-04, 11:51 AM
Oh well.

Extra

SadisticFishing
2008-06-04, 11:56 AM
Yeah I've been playing a summoner (Binder, Zceryll is the win), and I asked my DM - he flat out said "no. your centipede is NOT getting 11 feats.", so I figured out how to make him right.

Lochar
2008-06-04, 12:01 PM
Thankfully though, I'm the DM and throwing the fiendish monster at my players. So therefore, I will give it feats anyways. *cackle*

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-04, 07:32 PM
Also, "A fiendish creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill points if its type changes."

I'm failing to see the word feats on the list of things to NOT recalculate.

And lacking an Int score is a quality of the Vermin type, which it loses. I would definitely rule that it gains an Intelligence score by becoming a Magical Beast, as well as from the line "but Intelligence is at least 3" in the Fiendish template.