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NephandiMan
2008-06-06, 04:46 AM
I've two quick questions about 4e, both of which relate to charts. First, does anyone know the location of the chart for weight limits and how badly they slow you down? I assume there is such a chart, since the mechanic for being slowed by weight limits wouldn't make much sense without one - but for the life of me, I can't find it.

Second, does anyone know if there's a wealth-by-level table anywhere in the rulebooks? From what I've seen of the magic item prices, I'm guessing it would be quite a bit different than in 3.X, but either there isn't such a table (perhaps in an attempt to discourage high-level playing initially), or WotC is continuing the fine 3.X tradition of burying vital information in hard-to-find places without any indication of where it might be.

Kristoss
2008-06-06, 05:24 AM
1.
Their is no word on encumberance in the phb.
However in DMG it states "Niggling details of food supplies and encumbrance
usually aren’t fun, so don’t sweat them,".

2.
When making a character above 1st you get 1 magic item of your level - 1, 1 magic item of your level, and another of your level + 1, You also get Money worth one magic item of your level - 1 to spend on rituals, scrolls gear.

Hope that helps.

Xefas
2008-06-06, 05:50 AM
Page 222 of the Player's Handbook

Strength Score x10 is the number of pounds for the normal, unencumbered load limit

Strength Score x20 is the number of pounds for a heavy load. You need both hands for this.

Strength Score x50 is the number of pounds you can drag or push along the ground.

Kizara
2008-06-06, 06:38 AM
Page 222 of the Player's Handbook

Strength Score x10 is the number of pounds for the normal, unencumbered load limit

Strength Score x20 is the number of pounds for a heavy load. You need both hands for this.

Strength Score x50 is the number of pounds you can drag or push along the ground.

I'll grant them this: That beats an obscure table anyday.

Although does it have rules for bigger and smaller creatures? I would imagine not, as that sort of fairly important omission is somewhat typical of the system.

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-06, 08:48 AM
I would assume that bigger and smaller creatures have appropriately ranged Strength scores.

RTGoodman
2008-06-06, 11:16 AM
I would assume that bigger and smaller creatures have appropriately ranged Strength scores.

Not necessarily. Since they took away racial penalties (everyone just gets two +2s, for the most part), Halflings and Gnomes and such still have an average of 10 Str. Bigger creatures probably get bonuses to Str, but that's on a case-by-case (and race-by-race) basis.

Attilargh
2008-06-06, 01:37 PM
Although does it have rules for bigger and smaller creatures? I would imagine not, as that sort of fairly important omission is somewhat typical of the system.
If two characters are of different sizes but of equal strength, why should one be able to carry more than the other? :smallconfused:

wodan46
2008-06-06, 01:44 PM
If you were 2 inches tall but had the same strength, it would be a lot harder to balance the box you are carrying around, which would require additional energy to compensate.

Attilargh
2008-06-06, 02:01 PM
Which would, in my opinion, fall quite neatly under the paragraph that says "Your DM might rule that you can’t carry certain objects at full speed no matter what your Strength score is, just because they’re so bulky or unwieldy." I for one don't expect the carrying capacity rules to accommodate for a human carrying, say, a 1:1 scale paper model of a dragon, either.

Besides, the two-inch creature could still feasibly push or drag the object.

NephandiMan
2008-06-06, 02:55 PM
If I may stave off the catgirl-killing for a moment, it appears my questions have been answered. Thank you all.

Devils_Advocate
2008-06-06, 06:21 PM
If two characters are of different sizes but of equal strength, why should one be able to carry more than the other? :smallconfused:
Because you're using a wonky game system in which the same Strength score means different things depending on the size of who has it?

That's how 3.5 works. You'd think that, given this, they'd have worked things so that 10 is average Strength for creatures of any size category. But no. Itty bitty things have low Str, enormous thing have hella Str, and Small humanoids have an average Str of 8. (I don't think that's explicitly stated, but it's clearly implied.)

3rd Ed. had a bunch of oddities concerning differences in size, really. Some of it was just unduly complicated, but a few things just didn't make sense. Colossal creatures were rightly modeled as very easy to spot, but they all walked as softly as considerably smaller things, just to point out the dumbest example.

Hopefully they've streamlined size rules a bit in 4E.

TheOOB
2008-06-06, 06:38 PM
I've always found it's better to ad hoc weight limits. If they are loaded like a pack mule, or carrying something heavy, I'll give them the move penalty, but otherwise I'll just use their armor penalty, if any. Of course I take STR into account. A Str 10 person can carry basic adventuring gear and a few days of supplies without being loaded down, while an 18 Str person could be heavily loaded with supplies and still carry a big bag of old gold coins.

JaxGaret
2008-06-06, 06:46 PM
Hopefully they've streamlined size rules a bit in 4E.

They have. Size differences have very little effect on game mechanics, AFAICT.

For instance, this is what the PHB has to say about Being Small:


BEING SMALL
Small characters follow most of the same rules as Medium ones, with the following exceptions.
You can’t use two-handed weapons (page 215), such as greatswords and halberds.
When you use a versatile weapon (page 217), such as a longsword, you must use it two-handed, but you don’t deal additional damage for doing so.

Spiryt
2008-06-06, 07:00 PM
They have. Size differences have very little effect on game mechanics, AFAICT.

For instance, this is what the PHB has to say about Being Small:

Crap, no penalties to grapple, trip, punching, whatever?

Or even bonuses to hide? :smallsigh:

NephandiMan
2008-06-07, 02:30 AM
*smacks forehead* I just realized: Kristoss, do you (or anyone else) have the page number for the rule about magic-items-by-level? I forgot to ask for it.

Also, I see the weight limits are given in the column right next to the adventuring equipment table. Is this...useful organization? In my PHB?!

Devils_Advocate
2008-06-08, 06:31 PM
Crap, no penalties to grapple, trip, punching, whatever?
A goblin can grapple make a grab attack about as well as a minotaur, apparently. The only difference is that the minotaur can grab Large things (and use considerably bigger weapons, but that's something else). Not that the range of sizes for playable characters in 4E is much greater than a single size category allows for in 3E, in which Small and Medium creatures of the same Strength also have sort of close to the same carrying capacity, too (and exactly the same reach). But in 3E things on the high end of one category tend to have considerably higher Str than things on the low end, at least within the same type of creature, I think.

Basically, they decided that this time, instead of allowing for big differences in racial abilities, the best way to balance things was to just not have large differences between the stats of different playable races. At all. No one gets more than a +2 to anything, or any penalties. (Unless you count only having a 5 square movement rate as a penalty. Even if you do, it's a fairly minor one.) In some cases, this looks a bit silly. But it's only going to be really blatant if you build things completely against type, and then compare a weird Strength-based goblin character against a minotaur, or something like that. It's important to at least acknowledge that the goblin in question is an utter freak.

(Seriously, do NOT conceptualize the average member of a given race as having stats of 11 + racial stat bonus or whatever. The bonuses are clearly not supposed to represent that or be taken that way.)


Or even bonuses to hide? :smallsigh:
All of the Small playable races get racial bonuses to their steathlitude. That's a reasonable way to account for this, since their small size is one of the features of their race.