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AslanCross
2008-06-07, 10:41 PM
Where can I find the rules on GP limits in towns and cities? It doesn't seem to be in the SRD, yet I see it in a lot of town descriptions in adventures.

RTGoodman
2008-06-07, 10:57 PM
I believe the rules about city size, population, demographics, wealth, and stuff like that are NOT in the SRD. If you've got the DMG handy, though, they start on pg. 137. (I had the same problem about three or four days ago.)

AslanCross
2008-06-07, 11:23 PM
Ah, there we go. "GP Limit" wasn't in the index for some reason. Thanks a lot!

monty
2008-06-07, 11:29 PM
I think that's like WBL and Mind Flayers as one of the things that they don't have in the SRD for whatever reason.

drengnikrafe
2008-06-07, 11:37 PM
I think that's like WBL and Mind Flayers as one of the things that they don't have in the SRD for whatever reason.

Mind Flayers, Beholders, and a few other monsters that are completely trademarked by Wizards of the Coast (or something like that) were not allowed to be on the SRD. It's 5 or 6 monsters that aren't there, just because Wizards has such an iron fist on them.

monty
2008-06-07, 11:44 PM
Mind Flayers, Beholders, and a few other monsters that are completely trademarked by Wizards of the Coast (or something like that) were not allowed to be on the SRD. It's 5 or 6 monsters that aren't there, just because Wizards has such an iron fist on them.

I never really got that. They can't print the squid man that eats your brains, but they can print "Roll a 20-sided die, add your Strength score minus 10 divided by 2, add your BAB (which is 1/2, 3/4, or 1 times your level in each class) and compare that number to the enemy's AC to see if it hits."

Mewtarthio
2008-06-08, 01:53 AM
...Wait, so this isn't a topic about DnD litigation?

Rutee
2008-06-08, 01:57 AM
I never really got that. They can't print the squid man that eats your brains, but they can print "Roll a 20-sided die, add your Strength score minus 10 divided by 2, add your BAB (which is 1/2, 3/4, or 1 times your level in each class) and compare that number to the enemy's AC to see if it hits."

They can print the Squid Man. There's no incentive to. Legally protecting game mechanics is pretty much impossible. A trademarked piece of 'legit' Intellectual Property, though? As in, something you can defend in court? Damn straight that won't be included.

I marvel at how Dominions managed to have Aboleths and Illithids, with those names.. it's not even defensible under copyright, since the names could reasonably be associated with the concept.. Oh well.

Iudex Fatarum
2008-06-08, 01:58 AM
Part of it is to provide rules so that people can run a game with only one set of core books, because it includes all you need except experience, and certain monsters. The monsters are on there because they are from copyrighted novels or other games, this means that if they did use them they would also need permission from the original authors. since the monsters excluded are mostly setting specific it isn't too bad.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-08, 06:29 AM
I never really got that. They can't print the squid man that eats your brains, but they can print "Roll a 20-sided die, add your Strength score minus 10 divided by 2, add your BAB (which is 1/2, 3/4, or 1 times your level in each class) and compare that number to the enemy's AC to see if it hits."

You can't even copyright game mechanics. (This is nicely exemplified by how Mongoose Publishing had no trouble taking Chaosium's BRP mechanics and publishing the new RuneQuest using almost identical mechanics.) Withholding them would be pointless. You can copyright product identity stuff like monsters, and you shouldn't free it up for anyone to use.

It's not exactly hard to comprehend. It's even less difficult when you consider that WotC has a lot of incentive to get people to actually buy their products.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-08, 06:45 AM
Is it possible to use those creatures in games? If not, why did they go through the bother of designing them?

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-08, 06:51 AM
Is it possible to use those creatures in games? If not, why did they go through the bother of designing them?

... what?

I'm sorry, I don't comprehend the question. I mean, I know what the words mean, but it doesn't make a sensible question.

For what it's worth, I've personally used all product identity creatures in my D&D games, yes, thank you. They do very well, psionic illithids especially.

Can you reword your inquiry?

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-08, 06:56 AM
Sorry about that (I think I misunderstood what was said). The monsters which are Product Identity are in other source books, but they aren't in the SDR dueto the fact that that would allow them to be published for free on the internet, right? (Sorry for being confusing.)

Tsotha-lanti
2008-06-08, 10:19 AM
Yes. Product identity - like monsters which are arguably unique or original to D&D (i.e. beholder, aboleth, illithid) - isn't released freely (well, under the OGL). It's kept to actual, copyrighted books, the content of which is not free.

Technically, game mechanics like WBL and XP/level are probably not any more copyrightable than other mechanics; but keeping them out of the SRD is just a good idea because you don't want people to play a game you've put a lot of resources into without paying you something.

Somewhat related: Copyvio is often cited as the reason you can't post this stuff on the boards here, but that's not accurate; copyvio is a gray area, but the immediate reason you can't post WBL tables or other non-OGC material is because it's explicitly forbidden by the forum rules. (If a website were reprinting a lot of non-OGC material, especially word-for-word, I imagine a copyvio case could be quite viable.)

Dervag
2008-06-08, 10:24 PM
Sorry about that (I think I misunderstood what was said). The monsters which are Product Identity are in other source books, but they aren't in the SDR dueto the fact that that would allow them to be published for free on the internet, right? (Sorry for being confusing.)That's pretty much what it comes down to.

The Product Identity monsters are in common sourcebooks- I think Illithids are in Monster Manual I. It's not that they're obscure, it's that Wizards of the Coast owns them lock, stock, and barrel, the same way that Apple owns the iPod or that J. K. Rowling owns Harry Potter.

WotC can do whatever they please with those monsters and has a legal right to control how they are presented in books and other media. There are only a few cases where the owner of a copyright cannot control the copyrighted material's presentation.

Of course, this is probably true of some of the stuff that is in the SRD, too, like Lantern Archons. Wizards is smart enough to know that making some of their stuff publically available will make people more likely to use their products and buy more of their products. But for the more exotic stuff, they want to keep control over the product- and if they release it on SRD they lose control because you'll never need to buy the books to look it up in.

Tempest Fennac
2008-06-09, 12:41 AM
Thanks for the clarification (that makes much more sense).