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View Full Version : Anyone actually excited about 4e?



nobodylovesyou4
2008-06-08, 09:13 AM
I was looking through the books today at the mall, and i have to say, it looks like a lot of fun. Im definitely going to try it out for a while, and i was wondering, amidst all the hate, is there anyone excited for this edition?

Dhavaer
2008-06-08, 09:18 AM
Definately. I just wish I could buy the damn thing, does anyone know when it will be out in Australia?

Fawsto
2008-06-08, 09:23 AM
Well them, I've playtested it yesterday with a bunch of friends, but unfortunatly I can't say exactly where I found those books, do you copy me?

I have to say this: With all those at will powers, my Paladin has yet to make a strenght vs. AC attack, because I only used charisma vs. AC ones. It is so nice! MAD is Gone forever!

NorseItalian
2008-06-08, 09:29 AM
I enjoyed it a lot. I can see where some people might not like it, but my philosophy is "as long as everybody's having fun, why does it matter?" All of my group enjoys it, so we will continue to use it.

Jarlax
2008-06-08, 09:32 AM
Definately. I just wish I could buy the damn thing, does anyone know when it will be out in Australia?

got mine Friday dude, that are out now.

super happy with them so far, seems the majority of my friends are in the "gogo 4e" camp or the "i like 4e but i have the full library of 3.5" camp i can totally respect my friends decisions to decline a new edition in favor of one they have an establish connection with but the way i figure it is i wont be spending any more money on 3.5, there are no more new books, so why not pick up a new system.

i expect to jump between the two replacing my core, completes and compendiums only games with 4e and running my mid to high level "all books, setting books at DM discretion" campaigns in 3.5 still. since the objective of my restricted run games are mostly traditional dungeon crawls, that would not survive against the oozing cheeze of a "anything goes" party.

Bryn
2008-06-08, 09:34 AM
I'm extremely eager for 4e, and as soon as I have a chance I'm getting the money and ordering them from Amazon. The game looks extremely well-designed, nicely streamlined, and splatbooks will quickly sort out any lack of versatility problems (and heck, there's enough in the core books to keep me occupied until then; I'm just waiting for the psionics book). So, go 4e!

Dhavaer
2008-06-08, 09:35 AM
got mine Friday dude, that are out now.

Really? Where did you get it from?

SamTheCleric
2008-06-08, 09:44 AM
A lot of people like 4e. A lot of people don't.

Such is life.

I happen to really like it.

Skyserpent
2008-06-08, 10:06 AM
I like it, but I can't honestly say you'd have more fun playing either. Fun is subjective, I like it better than 3.5 for various reasons, and there are definitely things 3.5 does better, but I'm committed to the switch, and I think I made a good decision. For me at least.

The problem I'M encountering is the myriad of people telling me I'm a bad person or made a mistake or whatever because I made that choice.

They don't say it outright, but the implication is there: saying you're "disgusted" by a change that happened in 4e implies that you think it's stupid or... well... disgusting, and I know that's your choice, but damn, you sure don't sound very approving of other people's choice to like it.

I mean, for example: among friends, if I like a movie, and I hear someone teling all my friends that it sucks and is horrible and all manner badmouthing, well, I don't know... I just feel a bit invalidated by the whole thing... I feel like that by enjoying something I've suddenly lost your respect... and that just doesn't seem fair to me...

sorry, I guess I'm rambling... I haven't slept in a while, I finished a spectacular session of 4e a bit ago and I just got my caffeine crash...

Xyk
2008-06-08, 10:08 AM
I am very excited. I just obtained books and looked through them, but I am the DM so I'll wait until I know the rules well before I switch.

Jarlax
2008-06-08, 10:12 AM
Really? Where did you get it from?

my local gaming store, we have several here in Brisbane and as far as i am aware they all now have the books in stock.

Bryn
2008-06-08, 10:45 AM
Skyserpent, you might appreciate this:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikifriends.png (http://www.xkcd.com/185/)
I agree with your points, by the way.

The_Werebear
2008-06-08, 11:01 AM
Much to my surprise, I like it. There's some stuff that my friends and I will change, of course. For the most part though, it pegged the complaints we had about 3.x.

Moreover, something I found appreciable was that we managed to teach someone who had never played DnD in any way, shape or form how to play with the 4e books in less than two hours. It's very easy to pick up and get into, and for the most part it doesn't seem to be insulting the intelligence of the players who have been doing this for a while.

KIDS
2008-06-08, 11:05 AM
I can't wait to get over with my various obligations while my books arrive over the ocean and get a game going. My expectations are really high at the moment.

JaxGaret
2008-06-08, 11:08 AM
Much to my surprise, I like it. There's some stuff that my friends and I will change, of course. For the most part though, it pegged the complaints we had about 3.x.

That's pretty much my sentiments exactly.


Moreover, something I found appreciable was that we managed to teach someone who had never played DnD in any way, shape or form how to play with the 4e books in less than two hours. It's very easy to pick up and get into, and for the most part it doesn't seem to be insulting the intelligence of the players who have been doing this for a while.

That's good to hear. I agree that it is very simple to learn and use (which is great for gameplay), without feeling dumbed-down.

serok42
2008-06-08, 11:11 AM
Played through a couple of encounters last night. A friend got the first published adventure and we used the pregens. It was pretty fun. I am still waiting on my PHB from Amazon but I really liked what I saw.

JaxGaret
2008-06-08, 11:13 AM
I like it, but I can't honestly say you'd have more fun playing either. Fun is subjective, I like it better than 3.5 for various reasons, and there are definitely things 3.5 does better, but I'm committed to the switch, and I think I made a good decision. For me at least.

This is also precisely my experience.


The problem I'M encountering is the myriad of people telling me I'm a bad person or made a mistake or whatever because I made that choice.

They don't say it outright, but the implication is there: saying you're "disgusted" by a change that happened in 4e implies that you think it's stupid or... well... disgusting, and I know that's your choice, but damn, you sure don't sound very approving of other people's choice to like it.

I mean, for example: among friends, if I like a movie, and I hear someone teling all my friends that it sucks and is horrible and all manner badmouthing, well, I don't know... I just feel a bit invalidated by the whole thing... I feel like that by enjoying something I've suddenly lost your respect... and that just doesn't seem fair to me...

Have you met anyone like that IRL? I've only gotten anything like from internet message boards, and it is a good idea to just ignore some posts from certain "people", who might better be described as a certain type of monster who likes to live under bridges.


sorry, I guess I'm rambling... I haven't slept in a while, I finished a spectacular session of 4e a bit ago and I just got my caffeine crash...

It's okay, it was a good post, I agree with a lot of what you said about people voicing their opinions in such a way that makes others feel invalidated. Invalidation is a society-wide problem that everyone has to deal with on an individual level.

Sometimes the best posts are made when you are on that edge :smallsmile:

Jimp
2008-06-08, 11:15 AM
I'm looking forward to it. The combat rules seem much better. Roleplaying and whatnot has never followed rules in my irl group, so any changes there won't matter. My players love being able to pull of awesome moves and it looks like the powers system will facilitate that.

LurkerInPlayground
2008-06-08, 11:35 AM
I'm vaguely excited. But until I actually find a group to play with, I can't justify dropping $35 on a single book.

4e mechanics really remind me of a Trading Card Game's rules. The comparison doesn't seem entirely without merit since powers, rituals and magic items are essentially just that: cards which are played under different circumstances. You occassionally upgrade your deck by trading up for better cards as you level up or can afford the gold for some other ritual or item.

This realization really comes home when you see that most magic items are rarely going to have more than one or two abilities.

And that, is where most of my misgivings from the game comes from. That the game is essentially a very streamlined card game with roleplaying and figurines. Perhaps too streamlined. The mechanics for this streamlining is very highly visible. And it gives me a vaguely uncomfortable feeling that maybe it's "too dumbed down."

I do like that magic isn't the ultimate combat utility. I do like that non-magicians actually have tactical options that doesn't require them loading up on a bunch of magic items, feats or prestige classes to be effective.

I do sort of miss the overly-complicated list of skills for some neurotic reason. Move Silently and Hide are no longer seperate skills. Skill checks don't appear to be tied to skill points anymore either. Granted, the skill system probably didn't get a whole lot of play in 3e.

I guess I sort of miss the overly-complicated customisability that you're supposed to get in RPG's. It sort of reminds me of console games. Bioshock is streamlined and accessible, maybe even fun, but there's very little meat to satisfy a customization nut for very long.

Skyserpent
2008-06-08, 11:43 AM
Have you met anyone like that IRL? I've only gotten anything like from internet message boards, and it is a good idea to just ignore some posts from certain "people", who might better be described as a certain type of monster who likes to live under bridges

as a matter of fact... I did meet exactly the kind of people that I've deatl with on the forums at the local game-shop when we went to pick up 4e, they were rather... intense... to say the least...

I was not prepared to deal with this stuff spilling over into real life, but go figure huh? I mean, I'm not mad or anything, just kinda sad and drained...


Skyserpent, you might appreciate this:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikifriends.png (http://www.xkcd.com/185/)
I agree with your points, by the way.

haha! I love xkcd!

Inhuman Bot
2008-06-08, 11:48 AM
I was playing 4e yesterday, and I have to say combat is WAAAY Better. And also theres so many less skills, it won't take hours to level/make a charcter. THe powers are good when you get used to them, and there are a few quirks I've seen but overall it's good. And bards/rangers/half-orcs/gnomes are an exceptable loss over this.

clericwithnogod
2008-06-08, 11:55 AM
The problem I'M encountering is the myriad of people telling me I'm a bad person or made a mistake or whatever because I made that choice.

If it makes you feel any better, plenty of people who don't like 4e and aren't switching are being treated the same way. Really, anyone not blind enough in their faith that 4e is the perfect roleplaying system or committed to the belief that 4e is the work of the devil is getting treated pretty much that way as well.

Most Friendly Local Gaming Stores are anything but - if you weren't getting 4e, you would probably be treated with the same level of disdain for some other reason. And the message boards, well, just look at all the thread crapping by pro-4e and anti-4e people in this or any other gaming forum.

ghost_warlock
2008-06-08, 11:58 AM
Well them, I've playtested it yesterday with a bunch of friends, but unfortunatly I can't say exactly where I found those books, do you copy me?

I have to say this: With all those at will powers, my Paladin has yet to make a strenght vs. AC attack, because I only used charisma vs. AC ones. It is so nice! MAD is Gone forever!

Must be nice...my warlock (star pact) has to keep Con/Cha basically even and sub in Int, too. :smallfrown: Str, Dex, and Wis can shove off, though.

My homebrews (so far)
1) 28-pt character generation.
2) Frigid Darkness grants combat advantage to allies, not enemies. (sigh)

Skyserpent
2008-06-08, 12:06 PM
If it makes you feel any better, plenty of people who don't like 4e and aren't switching are being treated the same way. Really, anyone not blind enough in their faith that 4e is the perfect roleplaying system or committed to the belief that 4e is the work of the devil is getting treated pretty much that way as well.

Most Friendly Local Gaming Stores are anything but - if you weren't getting 4e, you would probably be treated with the same level of disdain for some other reason. And the message boards, well, just look at all the thread crapping by pro-4e and anti-4e people in this or any other gaming forum.

Either extreme is bad, and everyone keeps getting grouped into one or the other, this doesn't really make me feel better but I suppose I can hope that this'll all level out eventually... whoo...

Moff Chumley
2008-06-08, 12:14 PM
I lurve it. I'm pretty ticked off, however, because I just bought a guitar, and I only had enough for the PHB and the MM. Sure, I could've bought off of amazon, but everyone knows that if you don't buy from FNGSs, they become suicide bombers. But yes, 4e is quite awesome, and I can't wait to play it with more than one person... :smallsigh:

NorseItalian
2008-06-08, 01:17 PM
I lurve it. I'm pretty ticked off, however, because I just bought a guitar, and I only had enough for the PHB and the MM. Sure, I could've bought off of amazon, but everyone knows that if you don't buy from FNGSs, they become suicide bombers. But yes, 4e is quite awesome, and I can't wait to play it with more than one person... :smallsigh:

Be glad you didn't buy off Amazon. I preorder my copy a week a go and now have to wait till the 16th because AMAZON RAN OUT OF COPIES!!!

WarlockBeast
2008-06-08, 01:22 PM
I'm defiantly going to play it. The character sheets are a little confusing, where are the armor slots?! If they are on the sheet i seriousle can't find them. I also was skeptical about the magic item inventory being bigger then the normal items. It plays pretty well though, it's alot easier to learn then 3.5 to me. Spells rituals and powers work in a nice fashion. I don't use miniatures btw so it plays alot easier then 3.5 when you don't have miniatures or a battle grid.

HeirToPendragon
2008-06-08, 02:12 PM
{Scrubbed}

ghost_warlock
2008-06-08, 02:14 PM
Be glad you didn't buy off Amazon. I preorder my copy a week a go and now have to wait till the 16th because AMAZON RAN OUT OF COPIES!!!

Har Har! I pre-ordered mid-May from Barnes & Noble and, with a combination of discounts, got the PHB for $12.30...and it was delivered to my door about 1pm on the 6th.

CarpeGuitarrem
2008-06-08, 02:19 PM
One of my college friends has the books (early arrival from Amazon!), and he says that they're rather amazing, compared to 3.5...

I'm excited to try it out, and see just how it all works.

Jerthanis
2008-06-08, 02:47 PM
as a matter of fact... I did meet exactly the kind of people that I've deatl with on the forums at the local game-shop when we went to pick up 4e, they were rather... intense... to say the least...

I was not prepared to deal with this stuff spilling over into real life, but go figure huh? I mean, I'm not mad or anything, just kinda sad and drained...

I'm surprised by how vehemently people at my FLGS react to 4th edition. Now, I'm not above poking fun at things I like, so for the most part I get along with them. It's still really jarring when they hear how saving throw mechanics work (the 55/45 chance that you end ongoing effects) and they explode with, "That's a ******* awful system."

I'm stuck between having to defend it and letting our conversation descend into heated discussion about how the system is or is not the death knell of the hobby, or letting that comment go and awkwardly changing the subject.



haha! I love xkcd!

I hate xkcd.

:smalltongue:

Swordguy
2008-06-08, 03:00 PM
Be glad you didn't buy off Amazon. I preorder my copy a week a go and now have to wait till the 16th because AMAZON RAN OUT OF COPIES!!!

Wait...what's this?

AslanCross
2008-06-08, 05:50 PM
I'm going to pick up the books (or one of them) when my pay comes in. Fine time to run out of money.

NorseItalian
2008-06-08, 06:12 PM
Wait...what's this?

I kid you not. You can still buy the books individually, but they've run out of the box sets and aren't going to be restocked till the 16th.

Frackin eh!

HeirToPendragon
2008-06-08, 06:18 PM
Mine still lists June 10th.

If they push it back, I'll be calling them and asking for the books without the little holder for the same price.

Killersquid
2008-06-08, 06:24 PM
I'm not getting 4e, but I'm still excited about it. It's another step for D&D, and I may convert to it later in my days. I like many aspects of 4e, and dislike many, and in the end, I like 3.x because it suits my tastes. Now I have to balance overpowered casters...

Swordguy
2008-06-08, 07:27 PM
I kid you not. You can still buy the books individually, but they've run out of the box sets and aren't going to be restocked till the 16th.

Frackin eh!

Mine's still saying the 10th as well. I placed my order on the 28th - perhaps they're filling orders on a 1st come/1st serve, so that more recent orders will be delayed?

/deperately hopes so...

EvilElitest
2008-06-08, 07:35 PM
I was looking through the books today at the mall, and i have to say, it looks like a lot of fun. Im definitely going to try it out for a while, and i was wondering, amidst all the hate, is there anyone excited for this edition?

there seems to be more love than hate
from
EE

Bhu
2008-06-08, 07:47 PM
Cant buy it locally, but I can see it online via pdf. I guess it doesnt matter whether or not i like it, after a quick glance, and discussion with my players I'll never be able to run it. Not even if i paid them. Not even if I kidnapped their relatives. Not even if i threatened to beat them unconscious, dress them in womens clothing, and tie them to a flagpole with a sign around their necks saying "I like it when strangers play with me".

My personal feelings on it are "meh".

RagnaroksChosen
2008-06-08, 08:19 PM
Well them, I've playtested it yesterday with a bunch of friends, but unfortunatly I can't say exactly where I found those books, do you copy me?

I have to say this: With all those at will powers, my Paladin has yet to make a strenght vs. AC attack, because I only used charisma vs. AC ones. It is so nice! MAD is Gone forever!

{Scrubbed. Please don't discuss piracy options.}

Jarlax
2008-06-08, 09:42 PM
I'm going to pick up the books (or one of them) when my pay comes in. Fine time to run out of money.

that was something i want to mention. the reduced investment for players. i am a DM so i need my 3 core books to run a game. most people comment you dont need the DMG but it has all your tools for encounters and XP and modifying monsters so i disagree.

that said a player can get away with just the PHB. you don't have magic items or prestige classes in the DMG and players don't have pets or summons that need to be drawn from the MM. and i think thats a powerful thing for people who are A) new or B) reluctant to pick up a new system.

players only need one book to get going. and if they are not planning on DMing ever then they don't need a MM or DMG EVER.

Kompera
2008-06-09, 12:10 AM
I'm vaguely excited. But until I actually find a group to play with, I can't justify dropping $35 on a single book.
You can get the entire set for well under twice that from Amazon: $57.72 and free shipping. There may be other retailers with similar deals, I haven't looked around enough to know though. I'd link it for you, but I just went and read the forum rules and I found them vague on the point. I'm not an employee of Amazon or any other retailer, but whatever. So just know that you can set the search to 'books' and enter '4e D&D' in the search bar and you'll find the deal.

If my group says they like the system after I finish running KotS for them I'll be buying the set myself.

ladditude
2008-06-09, 12:32 AM
4E FTW!!!!

But seriously, it is awesome! The ranger is good, the fighter is good, the paladin is good, half elves are good, clerics and wizards don't break the game! This is madness! No, this is 4E!!!

Yeah, I'm happy about it.

RedHeadSamurai
2008-06-09, 12:42 AM
I can say that i look froward to playing 4e but i have some complaints as well. as well as some questions. from what i can tell it seems that 4e is BoNS mixed with the core classes. which is great, cause i never got to actually play with ToB *lacked a committed dm and party sadly* all though i am concerned about a few things.

1. the weapon system. eveything crits on twenty! dammit. i hate it. i understand the reason for it but dammit why. i think they should have just ruled out the confirm crit rule.

2. why are the monk, barbarian, and bard not included in the players guide.

3. and this is a question i know we have all seen the previews for the character visualizer and such! when will it be active online. do i have to buy a disk to run them or something cause im already a dnd insider and they aren't downloadable from what i can tell.

I think that it will be fin once all the kinks are worked out. but if anyone cna answer me thatd be great. i look forward to seein dnd 4th edition become jsut as fun as 3.5 was for the world.

Bhu
2008-06-09, 01:38 AM
You know of course in a year theyll be releasing 4.5.

HeirToPendragon
2008-06-09, 01:50 AM
You know of course in a year theyll be releasing 4.5.

Why? 3.5 was put back out to fix some balancing problems (never played 3.0, this is just what I assume after reading the changes).

4.0 is completely balanced as much as it probably could ever really get, so I don't really see a reason for 4.5.

I know they'll make a 5.0, I mean they are a business afterall, but 4.5 seems pointless when any real changes they need made could come from an errata or supplement book.

3E was WotC's first attempt at making a table-top. When they goofed up more than they liked to have, they put out 3.5. Well in the time that it's taken them to finally find their nitch in how to actually build these games, they've put out 4E. 4E has taken the system and ripped it down to its bones and I really don't think it will follow the same pattern of edition changes every 3 so years that 3E did.

Of course I could be dead wrong, but I don't see a 4.5 or 5E coming out for a few more years.

We will, however, be seeing a crap ton more supplement books than 3.5 ever gave out.

Jerthanis
2008-06-09, 02:23 AM
Why? 3.5 was put back out to fix some balancing problems (never played 3.0, this is just what I assume after reading the changes).

4.0 is completely balanced as much as it probably could ever really get, so I don't really see a reason for 4.5.


Every edition has put out a revised and updated version of its core rulebook a number of years after their initial release. Or at least 2nd edition did, and I'm told 1st edition AD&D did.

It's as much tidying up and revising the initial print than anything most of the time. If I were to be involved in the process of designing a 4.5, I'd probably address first and foremost the issue of powers not scaling linearly in power. That is, powers of more advanced level not always being any better than duplicates acquired a dozen levels earlier.

Also, it's a bit early to say whether the new rules system is as balanced as it can possibly be... My initial impressions were that the Paladin was a much better markist than the Fighter, and would routinely outperform him as a defender, and I've since reversed that opinion. I now wonder how a Paladin is supposed to mark enough enemies to really defend his party, and especially once 6 radiant damage stops being an effective deterrent. There have also been threads wondering why it is that it seems like the Fighter can just about keep up with Rogues in terms of damage dealing capacity (albeit spread out more than a rogue's relative ability to focus his damage)... so I think it might play out that Fighters end up being a bit overpowered in the new edition. It remains to be seen, since 90% of balance problems are discovered in play, and 4th edition still hasn't had the chance to see much play yet.

Just remember that when 3rd edition came out, it seemed like the characters were pretty balanced.

Kiara LeSabre
2008-06-09, 04:37 AM
Definitely excited. When I have more time, I intend to play in a game of it myself.

3.5e was such unplayable trash, but Saga renewed my faith in WoTC, and from what I can tell so far, I think this latest installment may show they've really hit their stride. It's generated a lot of hate from especially former Batman wizard (and probably CoDzilla) players, but give it time, and that will subside and pass. It's natural.

Helgraf
2008-06-09, 11:47 AM
I can say that i look froward to playing 4e but i have some complaints as well. as well as some questions. from what i can tell it seems that 4e is BoNS mixed with the core classes. which is great, cause i never got to actually play with ToB *lacked a committed dm and party sadly* all though i am concerned about a few things.

1. the weapon system. eveything crits on twenty! dammit. i hate it. i understand the reason for it but dammit why. i think they should have just ruled out the confirm crit rule.

Actually, it only crits on a 20 if a twenty + bonuses would have hit the defense normally. If it would not have, then it's only automatically a hit.