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Frosty
2008-06-12, 03:30 PM
If you have all of these things below in effect, assuming your attacker has already beaten your AC, what would his final chance in hitting you with a ranged arrow attack? Assume you are also in a grapple with one other creature.

Blur, Air Devotion, Entropic Shield, Displacement, Mirror Image (3 images left)

Also, do the relative size of the grapplers matter? If you were wrestling a pixie or a Baleen whale, it doesn't matter?

Chosen_of_Vecna
2008-06-12, 03:51 PM
If you have all of these things below in effect, assuming your attacker has already beaten your AC, what would his final chance in hitting you with a ranged arrow attack? Assume you are also in a grapple with one other creature.

Blur, Air Devotion, Entropic Shield, Displacement, Mirror Image (3 images left)

Also, do the relative size of the grapplers matter? If you were wrestling a pixie or a Baleen whale, it doesn't matter?

Technically, if you are grappling in 3.0. it has a 50% chance on you and a 50% chance on whatever you are grappling, if however, you are grappling in 3.5 there are no rules, and the world ceases to exist.

I'm not kidding.

That said it's just 1/50X1/50Xwhatever mirror image isXEntropic ShieldXMaybe Air Devotion, I don't know what it is.

blur and displacement, and any other concealment's don't stack of course.

You should start by rolling Mirror Image, then Grappler, then concealment, then things that divert. But honestly, I'd just say Mirror Image doesn't count because your opponent is smart enough to say, "I'm shooting the one in a grapple instead of the moving ones." Also, how likely is it to be grappled with all those things up? I mean really, displacement and images?

Temp.
2008-06-12, 03:53 PM
Before the attack was made, the attacker has to choose a target. If the attacker hits an image, it is destroyed. If the attacker goes after the caster, the later effects come into play.

Blur and Displacement don't stack, so Total Concealment gives a 50% miss chance.

After that, Entropic Shield would give a 20% miss chance (leaving the attacker a 40% chance of hitting the target).

And after that, Air Devotion would be applied. (So the attacker would have a combined 20% chance of hitting the intended target.)

marjan
2008-06-12, 04:10 PM
Not, sure exactly what all those things do, but the general rule is they don't stack. Mirror Image is, however, not a miss chance so it would work with concealment.


Concealment Miss Chance

Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack.

As for grappling, rules don't state that "size matters", so I guess it is safe to assume that it doesn't.

Frosty
2008-06-12, 04:12 PM
Don't my Images get the benefit of Displacement/Blue as well? If someone targets one of my images, they still have to roll for concealment miss chance right?

Temp.
2008-06-12, 04:14 PM
Don't my Images get the benefit of Displacement/Blue as well? If someone targets one of my images, they still have to roll for concealment miss chance right? I don't see why. Neither the Mirror Image nor the Displacement effects say anything to indicate they would interact.

monty
2008-06-12, 04:24 PM
Don't my Images get the benefit of Displacement/Blue as well? If someone targets one of my images, they still have to roll for concealment miss chance right?

If you're only considering one attack, it doesn't matter. Hitting an image is the same as missing an image, as long as it doesn't hit you.

I think it'd be 1 x .25 (Mirror Image) x .5 (grapple) x .5 (Displacement) x .5 (Air Devotion) = 3.125% = 1/32 chance of hitting you.

Displacement overlaps Blur, and I'm assuming that Air Devotion overlaps with Entropic Shield. If they stack, then it's 3.125 x .8 = 2.5% = 1/40

Frosty
2008-06-12, 04:41 PM
I don't see why. Neither the Mirror Image nor the Displacement effects say anything to indicate they would interact.

Your Mirror Images imitate your movements and your appearances exactly. If you cast Disguise Self after you have some mirror images up, the images will changes to reflect that. If you become Invisibile, your images become invisible (but they come back the moment you become visible).

Therefore, it makes sense, especially with blur, that your images woudl get those benefits as well.

Curmudgeon
2008-06-12, 05:09 PM
I have to disagree with Temp. about Blur and Displacement not stacking, because Displacement doesn't provide any actual concealment. Your image is in plain sight (not concealed), just shifted a couple of feat. The reference to concealment in the spell description is just an analogy:
Displacement
Illusion (Glamer)

The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally.

KillianHawkeye
2008-06-12, 09:44 PM
I thought you always rolled miss chances seperately for each one??

Curmudgeon
2008-06-12, 11:47 PM
I thought you always rolled miss chances seperately for each one??
You always roll miss chances of a different type separately, but only use the best of multiple miss chances of the same type. Obscuring Mist and Blur both provide a miss chance due to concealment, and you would take the higher miss chance from both spells and roll just once.

Frosty
2008-06-13, 12:14 AM
The question is whether Displacement counts as concealment.

Curmudgeon
2008-06-13, 12:33 AM
The question is whether Displacement counts as concealment. You've seen my take on this. I'll add to the case for this just being an analogy.
You canít attack an opponent that has total concealment
Displacement
Illusion (Glamer)

The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. From Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concealment#sharethis):
concealment
noun

1. the condition of being concealed or hidden [syn: privacy]
2. a covering that serves to conceal or shelter something; "a screen of trees afforded privacy"; "under cover of darkness"; "the brush provided a covert for game"; "the simplest concealment is to match perfectly the color of the background" [syn: screen]
3. the activity of keeping something secret With Displacement you're not hidden, private, or secret; your image is in plain sight, and in the same square. You do have an illusion that creates a miss chance when people attack you.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy):
Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from a particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general.
...
Specific analogical language comprises exemplification, comparisons, metaphors, similes, allegories, and parables, but not metonymy. Phrases like and so on, and the like, as if, and the very word like also rely on an analogical understanding by the receiver of a message including them.