4e Gestalt?

[mikeejimbo]

Does anyone have rules for a 4e gestalt variant yet?

I imagine it would go something like this:

You pick two classes.

Gain the armor and weapon proficiencies of both.

Gain the bonuses to defense of both; if both classes give a bonus to the same defense, you get whichever gives a higher bonus. (They do not stack)

Gain the Hit Points, Hit Points Per Level and Healing Surges Per Day of whichever class has the greater value.

Gain the trained skills of both classes, and the your class skills are all the class skills of both classes. Gain training in a number of class skills equal to whichever class grants more trained skills.

Gain the class features of both classes.

When you gain a power, gain the power from either class.

And viola! (Yes, a small stringed instrument) You have a 4E gestalt!

[Goober4473]

I would prefer gaining the powers of both classes. So you'd have twice the nunmber of powers, which is kind of the point. It's not just multiclassing, it's being both.

Otherwise, that looks right.

[mikeejimbo]

Do you think my version would be more suited to a variant multiclass rule, then? Because I could see myself allowing it in a campaign.

[Goober4473]

Well, having the class features of both classes is kinda powerful, so it'd have to be a campaign where all characters are somewhat overpowered. Or, just replace a paragon path with some or all of the class features of a class you've taken the base multiclass feat in, and get a few of their powers in place of the paragon powers.

[Zeta Kai]

Well, the whole point of Gestalt characters is to be high-powered fusion builds, so having all of the best traits of both is part of the package. Why not gain the powers of both? They're not on the same power scale as normal classes.

[Goober4473]

I mean it's overpowered as a varient multiclassing system. You should get all the best of both classes for gestalt.

[Zeta Kai]

I mean it's overpowered as a varient multiclassing system. You should get all the best of both classes for gestalt.

But it specifically says here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) that you get class features from both classes at each level. If you want to emulate that in 4E, you'd logically gain Powers from both classes at each level, as well. QED.

[mikeejimbo]

Hang on there guys, I think you two are saying the same thing.

[Yakk]

I wrote up a different approach to Gestalt.

In 4e, there are 3 power budgets.
1> Your per-combat/day power boosts, in the form of daily/encounter powers.
2> Your base per-action power.
3> Your ability to soak up damage from the other guys.

The issue with doing a traditional 3e gestalt in 4e is that it boosts 1, while leaving 2 and 3 pretty much alone.

Here is my attempt:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82574

You get about 1.5x as many HP.

Your baseline power starts out higher (class features from both classes), and scales up a bit better (at-will/basic attacks go to 2[w] and 3[w] at 11 and 31). But your main boosts past first level is in the per-combat/day powers.

You gain additional per-combat/day powers in the existing 'weak' advancement levels of 4 and 8 (+10 and +20).

The end aim is that each gestalt character is worth about 1.5 normal characters.

[Goober4473]

But it specifically says here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) that you get class features from both classes at each level. If you want to emulate that in 4E, you'd logically gain Powers from both classes at each level, as well. QED.


Hang on there guys, I think you two are saying the same thing.

Right. What I mean to say is, you're absolutely right about gestalt characters. They should have all the class features, skill selection, powers, etc. of both classes, and the best of the hit points, healing surges, skills trained, etc. of the classes.

But mikeejimbo was asking if his original proposal would work as a multiclassing system for normal characters, not gestalt. In that case, it would be overpowered to have the class features of two classes without giving up something significant, like paragon path features.

So what I was suggesting for multiclassing, not gestalt, was that after you've taken a multiclass feat, you could take a paragon path that effectively gives you the class features of your multiclass, as well as some of its key powers in place of the level 11, 12, and 20 paragon powers.

[mikeejimbo]

Right! Which is basically how 'multiclassing' (If you can call it that :P) in 4e works, but a little more powerful.

[Goober4473]

I like the idea of using paragon paths to represent more focus in another class. Like, you take the first feat, get a trained skill and an at-will power as an encounter power, then you can swap some power with more feats, but what if you really want to be two classes equally? Like say you're a warlord, but you want to be a fighter too. You multiclass fighter, swap a few powers, and then you begin taking the fighter "multiclass path," which gets you combat challenge, combat superiority, fighter weapon talent, and some extra fighter powers, like a level 7 encounter power at 11, a level 10 utility at 12, and a 19 daily at 20.

Not really necessary, but a cool idea.