[3e] Gridless DnD: How well would it work?

[Worira]

So, I've found setting up enormous grids to be a ridiculous amount of hassle, but many pre-published modules have grids in them that are many squares across. I do, however, have quite a bit of non-gridded terrain hanging about, since I also play WH40K. So what I was thinking was that I might be able to dispense with the grid and just state that 1 inch=5 feet. Any thoughts? Will this make calculating AoOs too difficult?

[Jack Zander]

Just get a string that is 1 in long and use that to see everyone's reach. It may make things slightly more difficult, but I think the realism of not using a grid will be worth it.

[xPANCAKEx]

if you play non-grided, just make sure you watch out for all the usual table top game BS (measuring from front/moving to back for extra distance etc etc), but as long as you're a fair DM, you can probably make judgement calls on the whole AoO thing

if people in your group are whingey rules laywers, then resort to using a tape measure

[Thrud]

I rarely even use miniatures at all. Most of the time we just all keep it in our heads. Works for us, and saves hassels. Though occasionally I sketch out some stuff before hand to show relative positions.

[Worira]

I don't necessarily make much of an attempt to match miniatures to what they represent (Okay, Ted, you're the Tau Fire Warrior. Bob, you're Grimgor Ironhide. Jerry, you get the spool.), but I find I have too much with range increments, flanking, and AoOs if I don't have some kind of placeholder.

Incidentally, that brings up another point: how do I work out flanking without a grid?

[Chronos]

The only reason to use a grid in the first place is that most folks find measuring strings and the like to be too much work. If you don't mind playing with strings, then it'll make for a more realistic game, and avoid some of the quirks inherent to using a grid. Go for it.

[Townopolis]

How will you measure melee range and threat? Do you get an AoO if your opponent's near edge, far edge, or center is within 1" of your figure's edge? You should also try to keep uniform bases, possibly one for each size category. This would actually add a little extra difference between being small and medium, as smaller creatures would threaten even less space, but could slip past smaller holes in enemy formations.

The melee range/threat question is the only one I haven't been really able to figure for myself. I think near edge is closest to how normal D&D rules work. if you do center or far edge it makes large enough monsters completely immune to AoOs.

Perhaps if their near edge comes within X of your center, with X being a different number for each size category. 1" works for both medium and small, and would let small creatures have the same reach as medium (but if they had smaller bases, they'd still be able to slip past easier, perhaps small and medium should have the same base). Increase for larger creatures to accurately represent their longer reach and account for their larger bases.

[Spiryt]

I rarelly use grid, unless some bigger fight, that is not easy to "keep in head ".

[Isomenes]

Playing with strings...attempting verisimilitude...

My gods, man, you're planning on a catgirl catastrophe of epic proportions!

Those poor things won't know what hit them.

[Fhaolan]

I have a lot of luck with gridless D&D. However, I've got a long history of wargaming independant of RPG playing, so I'm used to it.

Here are the tools I use:

6" steel pocket ruler: Used for those fast short-distance measures. Found at some art supply stores or some office supply stores. It's really an engineering thing, and they're not as common as they used to be, so you might have to look for it.

5' cloth tape measure: Used for longer distances. Cloth is better than metal, as you can easily go round corners and do any other strange shape measurements with it. Found at most fabric stores. I normally don't bother with the retracting kind, as I find the mechanism is just one more thing to break.

Protractor, preferably one of those that has hinged arms like a compass: 3.5 D&D doesn't need one of these, but if you do any game that involves facing, it will make your life easier.

Templates for oft-used areas of effect (like fireballs): The cheap way out of this is card-stock, but if you can get a stiff acetate or make one that's just a wire outline, it helps as you can then see through it when deciding on placement.

[Vorpalbob]

Gridless DnD does sound like it would have more realism. I am considering experimenting with this in my SWSE campaign.

[Siosilvar]

Incidentally, that brings up another point: how do I work out flanking without a grid?

Draw a line between the center of the two would-be flankers, if the length of the string going across the target's base is 3/4 or more of the diameter of the target's base, then it's flanked.

Adjust the number to suit.

[Foryn Gilnith]

It works well enough. I've done 3e combat with no visual representation, so having terrain would be workable.

[ghashxx]

If you're looking at having extremely precise measurements to accurately depict everything to scale, then gridless is very difficult. We've never used grids simply saying "Okay, he's 40' away so I'm going to move 10' forward to get within sneak attack range and shoot him with my bow." or whatever. We used a white board to give a basic idea on where everyone was and let the players remember where they were. It required more attention from the players to actually think about what was going on in the battle. But once again, this only worked because we used the idea of the grid system for flanking and the such, ie everyone had 8 slots around them, but when it came to movement it was all judgment calls by the players and the DM. It's a more relaxed way to run the game which worked for our group, but definitely isn't fore everyone.

[lesser_minion]

Incidentally, that brings up another point: how do I work out flanking without a grid?

I think the simplest method might be to use facing instead, although if you are using square based miniatures you might still be able to adjudicate it in the same way as if you had a grid.

[TelemontTanthul]

we played a game of DnD without grid, and it actually worked out pretty well. Yeah, you have to eyeball a lot of stuff, and make guesstimates, but overall, it was fun, and easier on the DM.

[oxinabox]

lots of people run without a grid.
without minitures.
Purely by desciption.

Flanking:
Rogue PC: I move to flank
DM: Ok

simple, you don't really need to know exactly what 'square' he's on.

An alternitive:
Flanking:
Rogue PC: I move to flank
DM: you can't, theres a wall on one side, and on the other, is another monster, remember.
Rogue: oh yeah i fogot. :smallredface: I tumble backward diagonal 5 foot, and move to go arround theother monster to get behind them. how far do i get?
Dm: you're now between the other monster and the wall.
next round:
rogue: I take a five foot step diagonal so i'm behind the monster, Greg the fighter attackled last turn. we're now flankiong right?
dm: yes:
Rogue: I stab the bastard in the back, for... woot crit! next attack - crit again! umm... *takes out calc* err 112pts of damage!

[dragonfan6490]

I would love to run a gridless game with terrain. I think it would be one of the greatest experiences when trying to get realism in a DnD game.

[oxinabox]

I would love to run a gridless game with terrain. I think it would be one of the greatest experiences when trying to get realism in a DnD game.

then run one...? :smallconfused:

doing a one shot is easy.
finding players is easy, finding dm's is hard.

[FMArthur]

Gridless is easy as long as you're using pieces whose bases are of a uniform scale. That much is 5ft. Now, using the enemies' size as reference for position is none too difficult. Just don't ever try to pretend there's a grid that people have to obey. In fact, don't bother trying to establish exact position, just distance to allies/enemies.

[Chrono22]

It works fine. You can still include things like props, templates and the like with no problems either.

[Tyndmyr]

So, I've found setting up enormous grids to be a ridiculous amount of hassle, but many pre-published modules have grids in them that are many squares across. I do, however, have quite a bit of non-gridded terrain hanging about, since I also play WH40K. So what I was thinking was that I might be able to dispense with the grid and just state that 1 inch=5 feet. Any thoughts? Will this make calculating AoOs too difficult?

Not at all. You get to dispense with the annoying diagonal movement rules, and if you've got a tape measure, life is good. I've got various blast templates as well, since Im also a 40kaholic, and they work great too. IIRC, the big apoc template is perfect for a fireball.