[4e sort of] Wow...I just don't care.

[Alchemistmerlin]

This isn't another 4e hate thread, I promise.


I've been designing a homebrew world for quite some time, playtesting, writing, lorecrafting, and editing. I was designing it around 3.5 and I was really into it.

I've been playing D&D regularly since 3.0 came out, through high school and right on into college. I say this because I want you to know that I love D&D, it has helped me through the roughest portions of my life and let me make some great friends.


But now I just don't care. I don't know what it is, I stopped playing 3.5 for about two semesters, and then 4th came out. I picked up the books, I've been flicking through them but I just can not get the motivation to convert everything I've done to the new system, or even to roll up a character to see how I like the new system. I barely pay attention in conversations about the hobby anymore.


I've been struck by some sort of gaming apathy and I don't know why. Anyone else experience anything similar?

To Long; Didn't Read: Gaming feels stale, stagnant, and uninteresting to me lately...any one else feeling the same?

[Daracaex]

This has happened to me before with some things. Lately, it has been reading. I used to read a ton, but despite a large amount to read, I haven't really been motivated to do it. This happened to gaming a while back as well. I think it's just something that happens in life. You do something for so long that it stops being interesting and it falls out of your life for a while, then you pick it back up again a few months down the road. If you truly enjoy gaming, you'll come back to it eventually.

[AslanCross]

It may be burnout, or that you've simply gotten tired of it. This has happened to me with many other things---my job, my other hobbies, etc. It comes and goes. I see it as an opportunity to try something else.

[Skyserpent]

I think I have the diet version of whatever-it-is-you-have.

I've been really lazy about homebrewing and doing my own stuff, though in my boredom I have been watching and reading a lot of the forum stuff... I'm just not into it like I used to be though...

However this has given me a great opportunity to go outside and breathe fresh air for once...

[Ponce]

Have you had any incidents involving gaming? Bad player or DM, maybe? Might be what's getting at you.

[Crow]

This happens to me sometimes. Just set it down for a while. Sooner or later, you'll see some movie or something else cool that reminds you of it and maybe you'll want to play then. Play semi-regularly, like once a month, to avoid burnout.

[Thrud]

Usually when this hits me or someone in my group, we take it as a sign that we are getting bored with that particular genre, and try for something different. This usually involves a couple of game nights of kicking around doing nothing much but BSing, and trying to pick a new game. Then character creation, which is one of my favorite parts. Thinking up a totally new character, new backstory, etc. Then we usually trade off on GMing. All of this seems to get us back to wanting to game again.

Are you the regular DM by any chance? If you are the only one ever running, you can suffer a lot of burnout that way. I love to DM, but I also love to play. And if I have to go for extended amounts of time forced to do just one or the other, that too can add to my burnout.

Alternately, go do something totally different for a while. Join a basketball team. Learn Tai-Chi, or judo, or anything. Sometimes it is just a matter of being too sedentary, and so you are becoming apathetic due to lack of physical exertion.

Hope something out of all of that helps.

[Alchemistmerlin]

Yeah I am generally stuck as our group's only DM, mostly because no one else wants to do the job for more than a single session.

[Halcyon_Dax]

This was happening to my whole group slowly right when 4e got announced. That helped us out of our rut to this day. However, I have experienced this before, and have some advice.

While a lot of people are saying 'take a break', and it IS good advice, I suspect that if you felt like taking a break you probably wouldn't have asked such a question on the forums.

So, here are my get back in the game quick, tips.


Switch rolls. Play as a player instead of a DM.
Do a quick version of a different style of campaign than you are used to. Hackandslash if you are used to heavy RP and vice versa. Also, if its usually kind of easy, do a crazy hard throwaway adventure.
Watch movies that have to do with different things you like about playing/DMing.


My friend and I switch of DMing duties every once in a while so neither of us will burn out too quickly.

Our last campaign was real dark, evil, morally ambiguous, light on fighting, Ebberon mystery awesomeness. Our next campaign (4e) is going to focus more on 'Classic' goodguy heroness (at least in the beginning) and will have more combat and 'adventure'.

When I'm trying to drum up feeling for a heavy RP session or campaign, I watch things like long, serious Space Operas, or shows like Death Note, that get me keyed up for intrigue.

Wheras for action and such, I like to watch action movies (duh) specifically Kung-fu movies (related: I saw Kung-fu panda with my little sister this weekend- it was awesome, and made me want to DM some asskickery). Ninja Gaiden 2 (great game) also gets my blood pumping for strategically nasty encounters.


As for a plug for 4e (which we have all been enjoying immensely) its quite easy to make rules/monsters/items/artifacts as a DM, so you might not have so much trouble in the conversion.

4e has inspired my encounter design. Just take a look at the legion devils. 8 of them, charging and teleporting to flank, with some elite controller as backup and 2 artillary? God. DAMN.


I want to play again right now.

[Kurald Galain]

But now I just don't care. I don't know what it is, I stopped playing 3.5 for about two semesters, and then 4th came out. I picked up the books, I've been flicking through them but I just can not get the motivation to convert everything I've done to the new system, or even to roll up a character to see how I like the new system. I barely pay attention in conversations about the hobby anymore.

Nobody's forcing you to convert. If you don't want to put effort into converting things and learning the new rules, there's plenty of other games to play.

[DeathQuaker]

Yeah, if all you've been is GM, a stint as a player can help. And yeah, nothing's wrong with focusing on other hobbies instead for a little while.

Also, if you feel like you're wanting to game just the books around you aren't inspiring--switch systems. Go do something COMPLETELY different, like BESM or Hero or d6 Star Wars or what have you.

Or on your gaming nights with your friends, just sit around some good board games for a little while, to break up the sometimes intense preparation needed for RPGing.

Right there with ya with the "I made a home brew world tailor made to 3.5 and therefore conversion to 4.0 would be a pain." And I think for me that is one of the reasons why I have little passion for 4.0 (system's decent, I just have trouble feeling excited about it)--I've put a lot of time and energy into this one system and it is draining to see what feels like the whole world go, "Oh, we don't want to play with your ball because we just got a NEW ball that's shinier." But so it goes. I'm just not going to run 4.0 (but I will play it if someone offers to run).

[Charity]

DQ, I just converted over a bunch of unused 3.x adventures that I had laying about, it was actually a pretty easy conversion.
I took the EL of an original encounter used it to generate an XP budget and just bought a few monsters to keep the right feel. Mostly I could use the same monsters, the only ones that caused me any grief were some Drow, they are now pretty high level, but I just used the stats for elves and eldarin from the MM and called them drow. I did have to add a bit of elbow room to the indoor maps though and the magic items I just binned off and used the packet system in the DM's guide, it took about two hours all told for a 10 level adventure (12 now) It's not as hard as they'd like you to think.
I've not tested it out yet but I think it should play through pretty well.
So don't dispair eh.

[Alchemistmerlin]

See I know every nerd says it but I always kinda hoped I'd get this thing printed some day (My homebrew setting).

So I am somewhat forced to keep it current with the editions. But thank you to everyone for the advice.

Frankly, just reading through the GitP forums after my long Hiatus has spurred be toward getting back into all this roleplay silliness after months of apathy.

Thanks!

[Tellah]

Alchemistmerlin, have you tried any other gaming systems besides D&D? Trying out a couple of different systems with wildly different settings really cured my ennui. And since you're usually the GM, your players will probably be amenable to trying out games you bring to them. May I suggest:

World of Darkness: Modern horror/supernatural fantasy with very customizable characters. Many different supplements allow you to use a wide range of supernatural elements; I'm particularly partial to Mage. If your players really love d20, Monte Cook made a d20 version of WoD, and although purists decry it, it's really good for running a hack-n-slash game.
Nobilis: A very rules-lite game, in which each player is a sort of godling with power over a particular aspect of reality. If you've read Neil Gaiman's Sandman series, this game is very similar. High roleplay, very little combat.
Call of Cthulhu: Lovecraftian horror, with an emphasis on investigation and gradual loss of sanity. Also comes in a d20 flavor, which might ease the transition for your group.
Mutants and Masterminds: Another game with a d20 system, this one's generally seen as the go-to workhorse for superhero games. Character creation is pretty open-ended, and it lends itself well to lots of combat and cinematic action.

Most people I've talked to who fell out of gaming did so because they were bored with D&D and never found another game to dip a toe into. There are tons and tons of games out there, so don't let burnout with D&D keep you from gaming!

[Jimp]

I'm on a bit of a D&D burnout myself lately. I'm trying out other systems and enjoying gaming much more. So far I've looked into GURPS and Shadowrun.

[Dan_Hemmens]

See I know every nerd says it but I always kinda hoped I'd get this thing printed some day (My homebrew setting).

So I am somewhat forced to keep it current with the editions. But thank you to everyone for the advice.

First: you'll never get anything printed if you're not motivated to finish it, so if you're more interested in 3.X than 4E, keep it in 3.X.

Secondly, as the sheer number of 4E hate threads round here must have shown you, there's going to be a huge market for 3.X compatible stuff (hell there's Pathfinder coming out pretty soon).

Thirdly: Of course, you could always go with a homebrew system.

[Alchemistmerlin]

First: you'll never get anything printed if you're not motivated to finish it, so if you're more interested in 3.X than 4E, keep it in 3.X.

Secondly, as the sheer number of 4E hate threads round here must have shown you, there's going to be a huge market for 3.X compatible stuff (hell there's Pathfinder coming out pretty soon).

Thirdly: Of course, you could always go with a homebrew system.

If I recall correctly the exact same thing happened across the internet when 3.5 came out (slightly lesser extent as people were already used to 3.0).

The only time there's a market for these things is when the company that owns the system wants there to be a market for them. There will be people who kick and scream for years on end about how much they love 3.5, but eventually most people will just give up on it.

How many people do we still have ranting about how awesome AD&D or THAC0 was? 2 or 3?

I understand where you're coming from on all accounts though.

[Dan_Hemmens]

How many people do we still have ranting about how awesome AD&D or THAC0 was? 2 or 3?


Enough to have a reasonable market for Labyrinth Lords, OSRIC and the like. Sure a lot of these things are free, but I believe LL actually has a print version you can buy.

[Jimp]

How many people do we still have ranting about how awesome AD&D or THAC0 was?

Thac0 was never awesome. Even the staunchest 2e players in my hometown who refuse to play any other rpg system admit it's terrible.

[DeathQuaker]

DQ, I just converted over a bunch of unused 3.x adventures that I had laying about, it was actually a pretty easy conversion.
(snip useful mechanics stuff for people who need it).

Thanks, Charity, but the mechanical conversion isn't as much of an issue for me (although it would still be consuming of time I am not willing to spend on the project).

I am speaking entirely for myself here, and I'm sure I'm in a minority. But oddly, it's a conversion of fluff that I am partly concerned with. Bear with me.

The point of my campaign world was (on the request of my players at the time) to take the PHB, build a world that would support everything in it, that was not "boring like Greyhawk" (to quote a player). The result would be that the campaign world would provide all kinds of interesting cultural and historical stuff, but nothing more than the PHB would be needed to generate characters for the game. (Yes, I'm sure that sounds awful to some people, that that was what was desired by us.) The one non-PHB source allowed was a new list of deities to suit the mythology of the new world.

Since core 4.0 is different from core 3.5 in terms of races and classes available, among other things, I can't directly transfer the concept of the world over to the other. I'm left with three choices:

1. Convert to 4th Ed (which some of my players don't want to do), abandon the "PHB only needed" concept (which I don't really want to do), and spend time re-converting creatures and important NPCs to the new system where core does not provide me what I need (which takes time away from my actual world development).

2. Convert to 4th Ed (which some of my players don't want to do), keep the "PHB only needed concept," and therefore then figure out why my nation of gnomes suddenly disappeared and create new cultures and histories for the suddenly-popped-into-existence Dragonborn and new Tieflings, rather than continue to develop existing history that I've already put a lot of time into (including my gnome nation which I adore).

3. Stay with 3.5 Ed (something all my players will agree upon, and I won't have to learn to run a new system), and continue pouring all my time into the existing history and geography development which I've already put a great deal of time into and have been thoroughly enjoying as is.

I hope you understand why I opt for #3 in my case. :smallsmile:

This is NOT to say at ALL that 4th Ed isn't worthwhile playing--it's just not worthwhile for me, personally, to convert my world to. But for me, 4th ed is just a whole new gaming system, one I'll happily play if someone else runs, and at least in the universe I live in, I can run 3.5 AND play 4th ed without any sort of horrible matter-antimatter explosions or being struck by lightning.

(Puts on rubber shoes just in case.)

[Starbuck_II]

1. Convert to 4th Ed (which some of my players don't want to do), abandon the "PHB only needed" concept (which I don't really want to do), and spend time re-converting creatures and important NPCs to the new system where core does not provide me what I need (which takes time away from my actual world development).



2. Convert to 4th Ed (which some of my players don't want to do), keep the "PHB only needed concept," and therefore then figure out why my nation of gnomes suddenly disappeared and create new cultures and histories for the suddenly-popped-into-existence Dragonborn and new Tieflings, rather than continue to develop existing history that I've already put a lot of time into (including my gnome nation which I adore).

I hope you understand why I opt for #3 in my case. :smallsmile:


Aren't 1 and 2 not fully mutually inclusive?
With one you don't need to figure out why gnomes are gone. Or why Dragonborn appeared (they were in 3.5) and tieflings (they always wwere there, they don't have own cities so nothing major).

[DeathQuaker]

Aren't 1 and 2 not fully mutually inclusive?

No. Because the gnomes exist (and I pull them out of the MM and make sure they still work the way I expect them to) or they don't (so I can have my "create characters solely using the PHB" rules). You can create characters solely with the PHB or you can't, and in the latter case I have to support the existing campaign material with supplementary crunch.


With one you don't need to figure out why gnomes are gone. Or why Dragonborn appeared (they were in 3.5) and tieflings (they always wwere there, they don't have own cities so nothing major).

Dragonborn were not in the 3.5 PHB. Or the SRD. In fact, I've never heard of them until 4th Ed., so whatever supplement they're from in 3.5 I've never even seen. Since they're not a core race and have never heard of them, why would I have written them into my world?

As for tieflings, I account for real, honest-to-goodness Planetouched, but not these pact-tainted whatchamacallits, and I'd have to figure out how that whole race history works into my world. I could. But again, takes time.

That's my main point: It takes time away from what I've currently been developing.. I am not going to re-divert time into converting to a system that some of my players don't even want to play.

No one needs to try to convince me to convert my campaign (unless you are suddenly all going to be my players, which would be suprising). I ain't gonna. I was just empathizing with the OP and clarifying my point to Charity. That is all. :smallsmile:

[Daracaex]

2. Convert to 4th Ed (which some of my players don't want to do), keep the "PHB only needed concept," and therefore then figure out why my nation of gnomes suddenly disappeared and create new cultures and histories for the suddenly-popped-into-existence Dragonborn and new Tieflings, rather than continue to develop existing history that I've already put a lot of time into (including my gnome nation which I adore).

I know your mind's made up about this, but gnome racial statistics are conveniently located in the back of the 4E MM. They don't have to disappear.

[marjan]

Dragonborn were not in the 3.5 PHB. Or the SRD. In fact, I've never heard of them until 4th Ed., so whatever supplement they're from in 3.5 I've never even seen. Since they're not a core race and have never heard of them, why would I have written them into my world?


Dragonborn are in 3.5 supplement MM under the code-name Half-Dragons. :smallwink:

[JaxGaret]

Yeah I am generally stuck as our group's only DM, mostly because no one else wants to do the job for more than a single session.

Not to be a mindless 4e booster, but one of the things I like the most about 4e is the ease of DMing that it imparts. Creating encounters from scratch, customizing monsters, and incorporating traps and skill challenges into encounters are all significantly easier than before. My experiences (and the experiences of others I know) with DMing in 4e have all been really positive.

[RTGoodman]

As for tieflings, I account for real, honest-to-goodness Planetouched, but not these pact-tainted whatchamacallits, and I'd have to figure out how that whole race history works into my world. I could. But again, takes time.

Wait... what?

If you've already got Planetouched in your setting, why would you have to worry about the Core 4E fluff about Tiefling and their "pact-tainted" history? Just use the 4E Tiefling stats and say they're the same, fluff- and appearance-wise, as they always have been in your setting. You can even drop the tail, horns, red skin, and glowing eyes if you want! And if you need some Aasimar counterparts, Xefas homebrewed some right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81659) that are great if you'll allow homebrew material.

[JaxGaret]

And if you need some Aasimar counterparts, Xefas homebrewed some right here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81659) that are great if you'll allow homebrew material.

As have I. Mine are closer to a strict interpretation/conversion of 3e Aasimar, whereas Xefas' are more of a 4e riff on them.

Here's mine:

Aasimar

Ability Scores: +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Darkvision

Languages: Common, Celestial
Skill Bonuses: +2 Perception
Favor of the Heavens: You have Resist 5 Acid, Cold, and Lightning.

Daylight Aasimar Racial Power
You bring light to the darkness.
Daily
Minor Action Ranged 5
Effect: You cause the target to shed bright light. The light fills the target’s square and all squares within 12 squares of it. The light lasts for 5 minutes. Putting out the light is a free action. Creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them while within the radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light. If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light-proof covering, the spell’s effects are blocked until the covering is removed. Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect. Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell.

[Hawriel]

honestly I would hold on to your 3.5 world as is. D20 will be around for awile yet. I dont think wizards would just kill the licens. If wizards wouldnt want your world, go to the other publishers of D20 content. Honestly I would not want wizards to have any thing I created.

I understand your lac of caring about 4th ed. It's not just because I dont like what I saw reading the books. Its because my friends and I have so much material sitting around for 3rd that we will never be able to use it all in are lifetimes. Thats just to much invested in 3rd ed. We like the system dispite its head akes. Hell we just put together a new gaming group that starts in two days. Dont worry about your friends leaving you because of 4th ed. A good group is there because of the peaple and the fun stories.

Glad to hear that your out of your funk too. As others have said. If you find yoursefle appathetic to gaming. Take a brake read, go outside, play sports with your friends. ok that last one is totaly lame coming from me. Tell your friends politly that your burned out and if they want to game they better GM for awile. They can take turns.

Of corse heven for bid you might find yourselfe "growing up". It happens, most of my friends who gamed dont any more.

[SoD]

Yeah I am generally stuck as our group's only DM, mostly because no one else wants to do the job for more than a single session.

Wow. My group has the opposite problem. We have, in our group:

Ducky=regular DM.
Nick=has DMed in the past, and chances are, in the future.
Captain=DMing his campaign as well.
Cat=not interested in DMing.
Me=writing my own campaign, we start in a few weeks.
Josh=wants to co-DM with someone, or be the DM's assisstant, or something.

Yeah. Our group is DM heavy.

[Ditto]

I think you should stop being a whiny little punk and get back in the DM's chair, Alchemistmerlin. :smallconfused:


The M&M game you were in was moving okay IIRC...? (Not that I really kept up.) And Mage is something different for you now, yay!

Obviously you keep building the world as-is until you're satisfied you have enough base material. Building the world is that hard part, IMO. Adapting the crunch - into any system - comes later. I know how much you love the gnomes though, so it is a sad day (per your other elf-hating thread).

[Tough_Tonka]

I've been dealing with a similar situation so I'd like to ask if you get a chance to play regularly. I've been DMing pretty much since I got into the hobby and have been the only person in any of my groups that will DM with any consistancy in both the game and real world. I recently joined a weekly D&D in a comic book shop a town over and I have to say its been pretty helpful in getting that RPG spirit back.

[Alchemistmerlin]

I think you should stop being a whiny little punk and get back in the DM's chair, Alchemistmerlin. :smallconfused:


The M&M game you were in was moving okay IIRC...? (Not that I really kept up.) And Mage is something different for you now, yay!

Obviously you keep building the world as-is until you're satisfied you have enough base material. Building the world is that hard part, IMO. Adapting the crunch - into any system - comes later. I know how much you love the gnomes though, so it is a sad day (per your other elf-hating thread).

Bite me! and stop being a god damned munchkin! :smalltongue: Also Matt's MM game died because...I have no idea, Matt stopped.

[Lord Tataraus]

I have been having the same kind of problem, no one else is willing to DM except one guy who has had trouble running an enjoyable game in the past, but has recently got one started that works well. However, I still feel burnt out, Pathfinder has invigorated me a bit, but it is starting to wear off as I start looking for non-fantasy in the D&D sense. Thankfully, some of my players have shown interest in playing a WoD werewolf game which has got me excited and I am seriously considering just running/playing WoD games for awhile to take a break from D&D. I think the main turn off for me is 4e coming out, all the arguing just makes me sick and I've been feeling out of the loop, I personally dislike 4e and it seems that most people are converting over and it makes me feel like I'm getting left behind and most of the talk on this forums will become less relevant to me, it's kind of depressing in a way, this is an amazing community.

Wow, that felt good to get off my mind, though I think it's more of the pessimist in me talking.

[Voodzik]

Bite me! and stop being a god damned munchkin! :smalltongue: Also Matt's MM game died because...I have no idea, Matt stopped.

Everyone except you stopped playing. T got a new GF, D was asleep, N just lost interest and we all know how crazy K's schedule was.

And as for your problem, Alchemistmerlin, I concurr with what was variously said above; slide back and be a player in another verse for a bit.

[OneFamiliarFace]

For the longest time in my youth, I was the only DM in my group, and then I had a stint with a really bad DM, which made me want to go back to DMing myself, so I did. Eventually what shook me up was I found and trained a new group to play, and it turned out one of them was as good, if not better, at DMing than I was.

So for those burning out who still don't want to give up the game. The best solution is to get someone else to DM. If that proves difficult, there are still many ways to shake it up. Even if you are like me and haven't tried but one system outside of d20, you can put new restrictions on yourself. Make an all dwarf campaign, or require everyone to be a certain type (members of a particular guild, etc). It let's you flesh out that part of your world and gets the juices flowing.

If you are worried about conversion, then I'd say setting it aside is the best thing. Start making something new, and I suspect you'll find yourself wanting to convert more and more later. I was (strangely) lucky enough to lose a large portion of my campaign world just before 4e was announced, and now that it is out, I am excited about restructuring that portion. Some of the places, which were more conducive to 3.5 rules, I have set aside. It just doesn't feel right to convert them right now.

Best of all, it provides a perfect chopping block to start shaving off all the things you never wanted in your world, but had there out of necessity. Bored with elves? Well, players who are looking at and accepting the new playable races may not even notice when elves quietly go the way of the Dodo, replaced by Eladrin or something of your own making.

It sounds like most of the people just need a break. And like people have been saying, eventually, you will find that ever-present DM part of you trying to figure out so-n-so's stats or class in some movie, or you will see a perfectly rolling hill with a forest and the orcs will come pouring out of it. And you'll wish you had a pencil and paper or a camera near. At least I hope so. We need all the good DMs we can get!

[Ditto]

Voodzik, you should get back in the chair too. You and AM both DM'd before and like it, so you're stuck with it forever. I decided. ::nods:: Dealing with you punks IRL gives me vast decidering powers.

You know I'd gladly step in, but I'm really not creative enough to keep a campaign going. There's plenty left in White Plume Mountain if we want to try that again and invite new folks in.