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the quinn
2008-06-29, 11:45 AM
Hello Everyone,
I have been talking to many people, many of which say that they hate 4th edition. It seem to have a prejudice against, does anyone agree?
Anyway I want to generate a good discussion about 4th:
The Pros
The Cons
The Changes (both good and bad)
What has stayed the same

Tell me if you like 4th or not!
But is do ask you if you do not like 4e then please give a good reason, It seems that 75% of people who don't like 4th, is because it is different
and the others of you, please just try a game, it is really fun
:smallsmile:thanks:smallsmile:

Yahzi
2008-06-29, 11:51 AM
There's already 8 trillion threads on this topic.

To sum them up:

Some people don't like 4e because they're smelly old groganards who haven't changed their underpants in 27 years.

And some people like 4e because they're shallow morons who just like the pretty pictures.

Ya... I think that about sums it up. :smallbiggrin:

Artanis
2008-06-29, 11:54 AM
There's already 8 trillion threads on this topic.

To sum them up:

Some people don't like 4e because they're smelly old groganards who haven't changed their underpants in 27 years.

And some people like 4e because they're shallow morons who just like the pretty pictures.

Ya... I think that about sums it up. :smallbiggrin:
Sounds about right :smallbiggrin:

JaxGaret
2008-06-29, 12:01 PM
And some people are ambivalent about 4e because they're frontrunning fence-sitting bandwagoneers, and they don't know which edition will win out yet.

:smallbiggrin:

DMfromTheAbyss
2008-06-29, 12:10 PM
Actually from my reading of the bajillion 4rth ed threads I'd say the defining point is...

If you like a really good system for making up characters, you want 3rd ed.

If you just wanna play the damn game you want 4rth ed.

In my experience a lot of the Grognards (old gamers) actually like the 4rth ed game better, becouse many of them never liked 3rd ed in the first place. (myself included):tongue:

Though milage may vary... I suggest really trying ANY system out and giving it a fair shakedown cruise before passing judgement. (except Earthdawn... don't try it, it might break you)

the quinn
2008-06-29, 12:17 PM
Yeah, ok, guess I didn't see them, any way, has anyone notice the large amount of completely broken character builds????
If you have any please post them.

JaxGaret
2008-06-29, 12:21 PM
Yeah, ok, guess I didn't see them, any way, has anyone notice the large amount of completely broken character builds????

You mean all of the builds that include Blade Cascade or Seal of Binding + Regeneration? Yes, there are a handful of broken powers and power combos in 4e, and they're all only usable at the highest levels.

It's nothing compared to the list of broken spells and combos in 3e, even 3e core, where characters can be broken almost from level 1.

Artanis
2008-06-29, 12:24 PM
Though milage may vary... I suggest really trying ANY system out and giving it a fair shakedown cruise before passing judgement. (except Earthdawn... don't try it, it might break you)
I don't know anything about Earthdawn, but there's a couple out there that even hearing about will break you. Systems that are so bad that they evoke a Lovecraftian "Things That Must Not Be Known" brand of insanity upon hearing their very names.

RebelRogue
2008-06-29, 12:53 PM
I don't know anything about Earthdawn, but there's a couple out there that even hearing about will break you. Systems that are so bad that they evoke a Lovecraftian "Things That Must Not Be Known" brand of insanity upon hearing their very names.
I played Earthdawn a bit many, many years ago. I remember somthing about rerolling dice that came up with max and re-adding plus I thought the setting was pretty cool. I don't feel all that broken. hehe.

Starbuck_II
2008-06-29, 12:55 PM
I don't know anything about Earthdawn, but there's a couple out there that even hearing about will break you. Systems that are so bad that they evoke a Lovecraftian "Things That Must Not Be Known" brand of insanity upon hearing their very names.

You referring to F.A.T.A.L.?

the quinn
2008-06-29, 01:31 PM
Maybe I should change the name of the Thread

Kyeudo
2008-06-29, 02:04 PM
Don't bother. It's too late anyway.

Kurald Galain
2008-06-29, 02:50 PM
Hello Everyone,
I have been talking to many people, many of which say that they hate 4th edition.

So, you're talking about the fourth edition of Shadowrun, no? :smallbiggrin:

Crow
2008-06-29, 03:55 PM
Ah yes, I hate 4th edition Shadowrun. Where have the shadows gone? They should have called it HippywithbluetoothatstarbucksRun.

Anyhow, I think a small number of the 4e haters don't actually like broken characters, but do like the idea of some characters being noticably stronger than others, or at least having the capability to be so. 4e has cut down on being able to do this somewhat. They feel like their class was nerfed.

Zeta Kai
2008-06-29, 04:08 PM
4e has cut down on being able to do this somewhat. They feel like their class was nerfed.

They didn't cut down on it "somewhat," they castrated almost the entire notion of it, all for the sake of balance. Now we're all members of the Gray Race, equal by mandate, unable to fail & unable to truly excel.

And they don't "feel" like their class was nerfed. They know it as a pure mathematical fact, & nobody can argue otherwise & remain credible.

Crow
2008-06-29, 04:14 PM
They didn't cut down on it "somewhat," they castrated almost the entire notion of it, all for the sake of balance. Now we're all members of the Gray Race, equal by mandate, unable to fail & unable to truly excel.

And they don't "feel" like their class was nerfed. They know it as a pure mathematical fact, & nobody can argue otherwise & remain credible.

I was trying to be a little more gentle in the way I said it. I know how it feels because I am one of those people. I actually liked being able to come up with a powerful, but not broken character if I worked at it. All our games started at level 1, so it was kindof a nice experience starting out as this scrub (maybe slightly better than average), and being able to develop into your vision of what you wanted the character to be. Mind you, you couldn't always get those neat items you wanted all the time. I also liked trying out a new concept and finding that it didn't work. In fact, some of my most memorable gaming experiences are from times when I had a "sub-par" character, but was still able to hang in there and contribute what I could. Even the completely useless ones were fun...it's all in the roleplay.

Skyserpent
2008-06-29, 04:30 PM
And some people are ambivalent about 4e because they're frontrunning fence-sitting bandwagoneers, and they don't know which edition will win out yet.

:smallbiggrin:

GET OFF THE FENCE Ambivalent people! We're at WAR!

Roland St. Jude
2008-06-29, 04:31 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: There are numerous other topics about 4e, both general and specific. Thread locked.

Saph
2008-06-29, 04:36 PM
Hmm . . . You say you want a discussion, but then you say that you think the only reason people dislike it is prejudice? Well, I'll take you at your word for the first part and ignore the second.

Anyway, I've played and watched a good few 4e games (and ten times as many 3.5 ones) so I've had a fair bit of time to form an opinion.

Ways in which 4e is better:

More balanced classes
More streamlined system
Easier to learn and prepare, both as a player and as a DM
Better for very low-level play

Ways in which 3.5 is better:

More varied classes
More options for building and advancing characters
Character powers are more significant and more versatile

From my experience so far, I'd say that 4e is better for one-offs and anything where you don't have much time to make a character, and for casual players who don't want to spend too long going through rulebook after rulebook. 3.5 is better for games where the players want to carefully tune their characters to get lots of cool abilities and are willing to spend a while doing it.

Basically, if I'm playing a one-off, I'd rather play 4e; if I'm playing a long-running campaign, I'd rather play 3.5.

- Saph

Edit: oops, posted before seeing the lock message. Sorry!