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darkzucchini
2008-06-30, 01:21 AM
This here is the beginning of a rather large project that I have been meaning to get to, namely, the overhauling of 3.5 D&D to fix some of the problems that I have observed in the system. And as almost all projects of this nature seem to start with addressing the often criticized fighter, so does mine.

Before you look at the entry below, I will tell you of what I was trying to accomplish with this fix.

First off, I have felt like many others that the fighter class is not a very good character chose for late game play and is mostly used as a dip to pick up those few extra feats that you need to meet that Prestige Class's requirements. The ToB splat book did an admirable job at trying to fix the problems of the melee class, but I feel that they did it at the expense of the down-to-earth feel of the fighter. In my opinion, a fighter shouldn't expand maneuvers, but should have a list of practiced moves that they know by heart and can use when the right situation arises. I envision the fighter as a master of battlefield tactics, able to turn landscape around them to their advantage. In crafting the fighter, I chose to increase the potency and versatility of their attacks of opportunity and to give them 'Strike' maneuvers which will hopefully increase the fighter's combat maneuverability and hopefully alleviate the drudge of making another full attack every round.

Anyway, the entry below requires a basic knowledge of my overall game fix, which I will try to educate on in a sufficient but brief manor.

Don't worry about the mental fortitude score. It is part of the point based spell casting system that I am working on and isn't really important to the fighter.

Skill groups are stolen from the Iron Heroes system, where instead of class skills characters have skill groups which they can purchase a rank in all of the skills within the skill group for one point.

If my dream of overhauling 3.5 is realized, all classes will be undergoing major changes, so if the class seems overpowered or insufficient, tell me what you perceive as wrong and I will tell you if I had planned to address that with another fix.

Here is a brief idea of what the final class make-up will look like:
Archer: Pretty much a Fighter for ranged or thrown weapons
Barbarian: A heavy damage dealing class that has some ability to defend allies.
Bard: Pretty similar to the 3.5 version, though I haven't given it much thought yet.
Cleric: Cleric takes the place of Paladin as the Holy Warrior and partial divine caster.
Druid: Haven't given them much thought, will probably be another half divine caster and focus more on their shape shifting abilities.
Fighter: Pretty much an Archer but for melee weapons, good at defending allies or dealing damage.
Mage: Wizard and Sorcerer are rolled into one class and can choose between the Hermetic or Intuitive spell casting style, full arcane caster.
Monk: Haven't given much thought to the Monk but it definitely needs an overhaul.
Priest: Full divine caster, similar to the Mage in terms of combat ability
Ranger: Rangers will loose their weapons styles and spell casting, instead focusing heavily on their Favored Enemy ability and gain the most bonus feats for customization.
Rogue: The rogues a rogue, somethings never change.

As a final statement, this is just a rough draft and a lot needs to be done to finalize this fix. I would be very grateful fixes to confusing terminology or instruction, and additions to the already present Maneuvers and Stances, and any sprucing up of the crunch to make it look more professional.

A couple of things that I have my eye on:
I would like at least one more offensive stance.
I have not decided yet how many stances/maneuvers a fighter will recieve over their 20 levels. In my opinion that depends on the number of stances and maneuvers I have to work with.
The damage for some of the offensive maneuvers seems like it could get out of hand, I'm looking at you Warrior's Gambit and Meet the Charge.
Winding and Binding is just a mess :smallyuk:

I will try to get this into one of those nifty tables at some point in the future.

Special thanks to deepblue for letting me steal Disciplined Defense from his fighter fix.

Hopefully I haven't missed anything.

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Fighter

Hit Points: 10 + Constitution at 1st, d10 + Con mod every level there after.
Mental Fortitude: 4 + Wisdom at 1st, d4 + Wis mod every level there after.
Skill Points: 4 + Int mod times 4 at 1st, 4 + Int mod every level there after.
Class Skill Groups: Athletics, Business, Equestrian
Proficiencies: Simple Weapon Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Light Armor Proficiency, Medium Armor Proficiency, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency (Except for Tower Shields)
Base Attack Bonus: High (1:1)
Saves: High Fortitude, Low Reflex, Low Will

1st: Battle Stances, Disciplined Defense
2nd: Bonus Feat, Ceaseless Vigor 1/day
3rd: Battlefield Superiority +1
4th: Improved Armor Training
5th: Bonus Feat
6th: Ceaseless Vigor 2/day
7th:
8th: Bonus Feat, Battlefield Superiority +2
9th:
10th: Ceaseless Vigor 3/day
11th: Bonus Feat
12th: Superior Armor Training
13th: Battlefield Superiority +3
14th: Bonus Feat, Ceaseless Vigor 4/day
15th:
16th:
17th: Bonus Feat
18th: Ceaseless Vigor 5/day, Battlefield Superiority +4
19th:
20th: Bonus Feat

Battle Maneuvers: There are two types of maneuvers; Counters and Strikes.
Counters are used during an opponents turn in response to an opponents action and often require certain circumstances to use. Counters use up one use of the fighter's alloted attacks of opportunity when used.
Strikes are used during the fighters turn, either as a standard action or as part of another action and often require certain circumstances to use.
All maneuver bonus damage dices are not affected by multipliers, be they from critical hits or otherwise.
A fighter must be wielding a melee weapon or using Improved Unarmed Strike, unless the description states otherwise.
A fighter must be in a stance to use a maneuver; Defensive Maneuvers cannot be used while in an Offensive Stance; Offensive Maneuvers cannot be used while in a Defensive Stance.

Defensive Maneuvers: Defensive maneuvers cannot be used while in an Offensive Stance.

Distracting Strike: Strike-Full Attack; make a single attack against an opponent. If you hit, your target suffers a -2 penalty to hit anyone but the initiating fighter until the beginning of your next turn. This penalty increases to -4 at 6th level, -6 at 11th level, and -8 at 16th level. Distracting Strike's damage increases by +1d6 at 6th level, +2d6 at 11th level, and +3d6 at 16th level.

Guardian Strike: Counter; make an attack of opportunity against a foe who has just successfully attacked an ally. Damage increases by +1d6 at 6th level, +2d6 at 11th level, and +3d6 at 16th level.

Hindering Blow: Counter; may only used against an opponent who provokes an attack of opportunity for a move attraction. Make an attack of opportunity, if the attack successfully hits, make an opposed strength check with the opponent. If you win, the opponent may not continue with their move action. An opponent may use an Escape Artist check in place of a Strength check.

Intervention: Counter, does not require weapon or Improved Unarmed Attack to perform; switch places with an adjacent ally who is under attack, is the target of a spell that requires an attack roll, or falls within the area of affect of a spell. This counter is carried out before the attack or spell is resolved and the fighter becomes the new target of the attack or spell.

Push 'Em Back: Strike-Standard Action; Make an attack against an opponent. If you hit, make an opposed Strength check against your target (affected by size, see Grappling), if successful, push your target 5 ft backwards. Attack damage increases by +1d6 at 6th level, +2d6 at 11th level, and +3d6 at 16th level.

Shield Ally: Counter; requires shield, does not require a melee weapon or Improved Unarmed Attack to use. Interrupt the attack of an adjacent opponent against an adjacent ally. The ally gains the effect of the fighter's shield instead of the fighter, as long as they remain adjacent or until the beginning of the fighter's turn. If the fighter is using a tower shield, the ally may take cover. The opponent's attack then resumes.

Sidestep and Slice: Counter; can only be used against an opponent who has initiated a charge attack against you. You must take a 5 ft. step and end adjacent to the charge initiator. Before the opponent resolves their charge make an attack of opportunity. If you hit, deal normal damage and you may make a free trip attack against the charge initiator. If your trip attack is successful, the opponent may not resolve their charge attack.

Counter or Strike-Standard Action; to use as a counter, an opponent must attack you and miss; to use as a strike, strike the opponent and forgo damage. On your opponents turn (including the initial turn) you make an opposed attack roll against your opponent. If you win, your opponent cannot attack during that round, or you may end the maneuver. If your opponent wins, the maneuver is ended and he may act as he likes. If either of character takes any other action (other than AoOs against each other), they provoke an AoO from the other. The winner of a Winding and Binding roll may make an opposed strength check to push their opponent back 5 feet and move into the square the opponent previously occupied.

Offensive Maneuvers: Offensive Maneuvers may not be used while in a Defensive Stance.

Courageous Charge: Strike-Charge Action; make a charge attack against an opponent. If you hit, deal weapon damage plus a designated amount of bonus damage no greater than +1d6/two levels (round up, a 1st level fighter can deal +1d6 bonus damage while a 7th level fighter can deal up to +4d6 bonus damage). The fighter receives a -1 penalty to AC per +1d6 bonus damage until the beginning of the fighter's next turn.

Eagle Strike: Strike-Standard Action; make an attack against an opponent. Your weapon critical hit multiplier is increased by 1 for this attack. If you hit, you deal weapon damage +1d6. Bonus damage is increased to +2d6 at 6th level (+3d6 if you use a two-handed weapon), +3d6 at 11th level (+5d6 two-handed), and +4d6 at 16th level (+8d6 two-handed). If the attack is a critical hit, you may add addition bonus damage depending on the weapons (now altered) critical multiplier. This bonus damage is +1d6 if the multiplier is x2, +2d6 if x3, +3d6 if x4, and so on. The fighter's AC is decreased by 2 until the beginning of the fighter's next turn after making an Eagle Strike.

Furious Assault: Strike-Standard Action, requires the users to wield two melee weapons; as a standard action, the fighter may attack with both his main hand and off hand weapon at his full attack bonus. At 11th level, the fighter may make a second attack with both his main hand and off hand weapons, although at a -2 attack penalty.

Hamstring: Counter or strike-Standard Action; as a counter, hamstring can only be used on an opponent who has provoked an attack of opportunity from a move action. If the fighter's attack successfully deals damage, the target's speed is reduced by 10 ft (to a 5 ft minimum). As a strike, a fighter receives a -2 penalty to their attack roll when making a Hamstring Maneuver. If the fighter's attack successfully deals damage, then the target's speed is reduced by 10 ft (to a 5 ft minimum). The strike receives +1d6 bonus damage at 6th level, +2d6 bonus damage at 11th level, and +3d6 bonus damage at 16th level. Hamstring has no affect on creatures who are immune to critical hits.

Meet the Charge: Counter, requires melee weapon or IUA, can only be used against an opponent who has initiated a charge attack against the fighter; when the target is adjacent to the fighter's threatened area, the fighter takes a 5 ft step towards the target and makes an attack of opportunity. If successful, the fighter deals weapon damage +1d6 bonus damage (+2d6 if you use a two-handed weapon). This bonus damage increases to +2d6 at 6th level (+4d6 two-handed), +3d6 at 11th level (+6d6 two-handed), and +4d6 at 16th level (+8d6 two-handed). Once the fighter's attack of opportunity is resolved, the target can resolve their charge attack. If the fighter uses a weapon that can be set against a charge attack (such as a longspear), than the damage multiplier can be applied to this counter.

Overpowering Blow: Strike-Standard Action, requires melee weapon or IUA; the fighter makes an attack against their target. If the attack is successful, the fighter may immediately make an opposed strength check against his target (size modifiers apply, see Grappling). If this strength check is successful, the target is knock prone and provokes an attack of opportunity from the fighter.

Two Cut Counter: Counter-requires the users to wield two melee weapons; in place of your standard attack of opportunity, the fighter may make an attack with both his main hand weapon and off hand weapon at his full attack bonus. Creatures that can wield more than two weapons may only only make one off hand attack.

Warrior's Gambit: Strike-Full Round Action, requires melee weapon or IUA; before making his attack, the fighter provokes an attack of opportunity from his target. If the attack of opportunity is successful, than the fighter gains no bonus damage to his attack. If the attack of opportunity misses and if the fighter's attack successfully hits the target, the fighter deals weapon damage +1d6 (+2d6 if you use a two-handed weapon). Bonus damage is increased to +3d6 at 6th level (+6d6 two-handed), +5d6 at 11th level (+10d6 two-handed), and +7d6 at 16th level (+14d6 two-handed).


Battle Stances: At first level, a fighter is knowledgeable in the martial arts of the soldier. By shifting his weight and changing the way he holds his weapon, the fighter is capable of maximizing his potential in either defending himself or attack his enemy, though such optimization does come at a cost. Stances determine what maneuvers a fighter can use during combat, and also may give the fighter different bonus and penalties towards combat. All fighters have three basic stances; Balanced Stance, Defensive Stance, and Offensive Stances. A fighter may use any maneuver he knows while in Balance Stance, but he receives no bonus or penalties from the stance. A fighter may only use Defensive Maneuvers while in Defensive Stance, but may choose to a specific Defensive Stance from the stances he knows to gain its benefits. A fighter may only use Offensive Maneuvers while in Offensive Stance, but may choose a specific Offensive Stance from the stances he knows to gain its benefit. A fighter may change from one stance to another with a move equivalent action, or as part of a move action, much like drawing a weapon. A fighter may not shift his stances more than once a round.

Defensive Stances:
Iron Bulwark Stance: While using the Iron Bulwark stance, a fighter gains DR 2/-. This damage reduction improves to DR 4/- at 5th level, DR 6/- at 10th level, DR 8/- at 15th level, and DR 10/- at 20th level. A fighter must be wearing medium or heavy armor to use this stance, and while using the Iron Bulwark stance a fighter suffers a -4 penalty to AC.

Shield Wall Stance: While using the Shield Wall stance, a fighter grants a +2 bonus to the AC of all adjacent allies, this bonus increases to +4 at 8th level and +6 at 16th level. In order to use the Shield Wall stance, a fighter must have a shield equipped. In addition, a fighter suffers a -2 penalty to all attacks made while in this stance.

Thicket of Blades Stance: While using the Thicket of Blades stance, the fighter may make attacks of opportunity against any enemy who moves from a square that he threatens, even if the move is a withdraw action or a 5 ft. step. In addition, all squares that the fighter threatens are considered difficult terrain for the purpose of movement. While using the Thicket of Blades stance, a fighter's movement speed is reduced to 5 ft.

Unmovable Mountain Stance: While using the Unmovable Mountain stance, a fighter is considered one size category larger for resisting Bull Rush, Grapple, Overrun, or Trip attempts, or to resist any other effect that would knock the fighter prone or push him into a square other than the one he currently occupies. The fighter may also add his Con modifier (if any) to any Strength checks. While using the Unmovable Mountain Stance, the fighter's movement speed is reduced by 10 ft. (to a minimum of 5 ft.).

Offensive Stances:
Berserker Stance: While using the Berserker stance, a fighter's threat range is increased by 2 and his critical multiplier by 1 for any melee weapon he wields. However, while using the Berserker stance, the fighter forgoes all defenses in seeking a decisive blow, receiving a -10 penalty to AC.

Giant's Stride Stance: While using the Giant's Stride stance, a fighter counts as 1 size category larger for initiating Bull Rush, Overrun, Trip attempts, or to initiate any other effect that would knock the fighter's target prone or push the target into a square other than the one that the target currently occupies. and for Grapple checks to maintain a hold or pin an opponent. However, while using the Giant's Stride stance, a fighter receives a penalty to Armor Class and Attack Roles as if he was one size category larger than he really is.

High Guard Stance: While using the High Guard stance, a fighter may make an attack of opportunity against a foe who enters a square that he threatens. Only one attack of opportunity can be made against an opponent for any move action taken. While in the High Guard stance, a fighter receives a -4 penalty to AC.

Disciplined Defense: At first level, the fighter is a well-trained combatant, possessing not only offensive prowess, but skill enough to deflect blows using weapons with which he is familiar. The Fighter gains a +1 competence bonus to AC when armed with a melee weapon with which he has designated a non-proficiency weapon-specific feat (i.e. Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Specialization (Longsword), and Improved Critical (Longsword) would grant a total of +3 AC to a Fighter wielding a Longsword). The competence bonus granted is also granted to the fighter when resisting disarm attempts (But not when initiating disarm attempts, himself). Wielding multiple weapons does not cause bonuses to stack.

Ceaseless Vigor: At second level, the fighter is capable gaining a second wind during combat, bolstering his strength. Once per a day, a fighter may gain 1d6/every two levels + 1/level temporary hit points (i.e. a 10th level Fighter would gain 5d6 + 10 temporary hit points). Temporary hit points last for 1 round per level. Instead of gaining temporary hit points, a fighter may use Ceaseless Vigor to reroll a Will save. At 6th level, a fighter gains a second use of Ceaseless Vigor, at 10th level a third, at 14th level a fourth, and at a 8th level a fifth. Ceaseless Vigor cannot be used more than once every 10 minutes.

Battlefield Superiority: At third level, a fighter gains an extra attack of opportunity every round. The fighter gains a second extra attack of opportunity at 8th level, a third at 13th level, and a fourth at 18th level.

Improved Armor Training: At 4th level, the fighter learns to move in his armor so well, that it becomes like a second skin to him. Maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 1, and armor check penalties are lessened by 1, for all armors he wears. The benefits of Improved Armor Training do not stack with those of using armors made of special material that also reduce armor check penalties, or improve the maximum dexterity bonus of that armor, such as Mithral. At 12th level, the Maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2 and the armor check penalty is reduced by 2.

darkzucchini
2008-06-30, 12:35 PM
What!?! No one wants to rip into the soft flesh of this half-baked fighter fix, tell me how I am completely wrong, an obvious nincompoop, a terrible person who's parents should be ashamed of, and who is obviously bound for Hell with express class tickets?

What have these forums come to?

*Shameless Bump*

AjaxTorbin
2008-06-30, 01:20 PM
no responses can be a good thing, it means no one thinks its broken cheese mongering, on teh oher hand, it means no one really thiknks its Great either.


myself, i think it's on the line to have potental, but there are a LOT of features to go through. most fighter players like "Thog smash" not "Thog make stance ready to counter little pointy things"

but, thats me.
good luck.

darkzucchini
2008-06-30, 03:24 PM
no responses can be a good thing, it means no one thinks its broken cheese mongering, on teh oher hand, it means no one really thiknks its Great either.


myself, i think it's on the line to have potental, but there are a LOT of features to go through. most fighter players like "Thog smash" not "Thog make stance ready to counter little pointy things"

but, thats me.
good luck.

Whoo!!! Feed back... sorta.

I agree that there are a fair number of people who want to play a fighter just so they can hit things and not have to worry about big choices, like the mage. This fix may not appeal to those who choose the fighter for its simplicity, and the number of choices may seem daunting to the new player, but I am not sure how else I would to make the Fighter on par with the Wizard without ruining the feel of both classes.

As for the Thog thing, I always felt that he was more of a barbarian, but I think you could build a Thog imitation through this fighter design. Start him off with Berserker Stance and give him Courageous Charge and Overpowering Blow and you have yourself a Fighter who can hit things really, really hard. Its my personal feeling and observation of people play fighting (I boffer LARP, if you know what that means), that one doesn't always need to be trained to know how to use a weapon. Its kind of like the difference between Wizards and Sorcerers, one fighter trains for years of their life to learn the ins and outs of sword play while another picks up a weapon for the first time and immediately shifts into a stance that will be effective for dishing out serious blows.

Come people, I want to hear some more feedback, I'm falling asleep over here.

Prophaniti
2008-06-30, 05:19 PM
Seems an interesting fix to me. I've seen very similar ones, and it looks like you took some notes from ToB. I do agree with Ajax, though, fighter always struck me as a class that should be simple. IMO, most of the cool things a fighter gets should be passive enhancements, rather than abilities the player must choose to utilize, and that's what my fixes have focused on. Your Battlefield Supperiority and Improved Armor Training are good examples of this. More a matter of taste than anything else, though. Don't see anything really out of line with yours.

tsuuga
2008-07-01, 07:24 AM
OK, I'll take a stab at it:


2nd: Bonus FeatIs this the same bonus feat list of the core fighter?


Battle Maneuvers:Add the line "You must be wielding a melee weapon or using Improved Unarmed Strike, unless the description lists different equipment", and you can eliminate that line from most of your maneuvers.
Defensive Maneuvers: Defensive maneuvers may not be used while in an Offensive Stance.


Distracting Strikeis missing the level 16 penalty


Hindering Blowdoesn't tell the fighter to make an attack.


Interventiondoesn't seem to work against spells requiring an attack roll - is this intentional?



Shield Ally: Can be reworded as: Counter; requires shield. Interrupt the attack of an adjacent opponent against an adjacent ally. The ally gains the effect of the fighter's shield instead of the fighter, as long as they remain adjacent or until the beginning of the fighter's turn. If the fighter is using a tower shield, the ally may take cover. The opponent's attack then resumes.

This doesn't stack with any shield bonus the ally may have, and it kind of seems like it should in some situations.


Winding and BindingGood grief that's complicated.

My attempt:Counter or Strike-Standard Action, requires melee weapon or IUA; to use as a counter, an opponent must attack you and miss; to use as a strike, strike the opponent and forgo damage. On your opponents turn (including the initial turn) you make an opposed attack roll against your opponent. If you win, your opponent cannot attack during that round, or you may end the maneuver. If your opponent wins, the maneuver is ended and he may act as he likes. If either of character takes any other action (other than AoOs against each other), they provoke an AoO from the other. The winner of a Winding and Binding roll may make an opposed strength check to push their opponent back 5 feet and move into the square the opponent previously occupied.


Courageous Charge I would remove the "Power Attack with AC" from this one.


Furious Assault: <snip>the fighter may attack with both his main hand and off hand weapon at his full attack bonus


Meet the Chargechange "before the target's charge maneuver is resolved" to "when the target is adjacent to the fighter's threatened area".


Two Cut Counter:
At what attack bonus?

Incidentally, I'm not fond of the extra bonus damage with two handers for Meet the Charge, Warrior's Gambit, and Eagle Strike - since it's multiplied by critical hits, it has some serious potential for one-hit kills. Eagle Strike with a greatsword can crit for as much as 27d6 damage, Warrior's Gambit can crit for 32d6, and the longspear you mention in Meet the Charge crits for 3d8+48d6 damage at level 16.


Shield Wall Stancechange "this turn" to "while in this stance".


Berserker StanceWith the bonus damage multiplication on crits, this one makes me cringe. Also, there's no reason not to go all-out with Courageous Charge, since your AC is already tanked.


Battlefield SuperiorityMy gut says "abusable", if it stacks with Combat Reflexes.

Sorry for tearing into this guy with such abandon:smalleek:

I like the fix overall, but I think it could use some balancing... and bonus dice shouldn't be crit-able.

darkzucchini
2008-07-01, 12:01 PM
Seems an interesting fix to me. I've seen very similar ones, and it looks like you took some notes from ToB. I do agree with Ajax, though, fighter always struck me as a class that should be simple. IMO, most of the cool things a fighter gets should be passive enhancements, rather than abilities the player must choose to utilize, and that's what my fixes have focused on. Your Battlefield Supperiority and Improved Armor Training are good examples of this. More a matter of taste than anything else, though. Don't see anything really out of line with yours.

I did take a few notes from ToB (such Thicket of Blades being ripped from there) but I felt that the ToB classes and their maneuvers felt to spectacular for a regaler old fighter, and the way that they use and regain maneuvers felt to magical to me.

I like simplicity as much as the next guy, but I am also unsure that a simple fix is what the fighter needs to be able to catch up to spell casters at high levels. I doubt the fighter will ever be able to reach the same capacity as the Wizard (due to their versatility) without significantly altering the feel of one or both of the classes.


Is this the same bonus feat list of the core fighter?

For now I would say yes, but I have a few ideas for new feats floating around in my head, such as one that allows the fighter to switch stances as a free action and another that allows the fighter to switch stances after using a Maneuver.


Add the line "You must be wielding a melee weapon or using Improved Unarmed Strike, unless the description lists different equipment", and you can eliminate that line from most of your maneuvers.

Good idea, I will do that right away.


is missing the level 16 penalty

Whoops, totally missed that. Should be a -8 penalty at 16th level, will add that right away.


doesn't tell the fighter to make an attack.

Yep, I should add that.


doesn't seem to work against spells requiring an attack roll - is this intentional?

I was just think of spells that require an attack roll as being attacks, but it is a good idea to clarify. Thank you.



Counter; requires shield. Interrupt the attack of an adjacent opponent against an adjacent ally. The ally gains the effect of the fighter's shield instead of the fighter, as long as they remain adjacent or until the beginning of the fighter's turn. If the fighter is using a tower shield, the ally may take cover. The opponent's attack then resumes.


This doesn't stack with any shield bonus the ally may have, and it kind of seems like it should in some situations.

Sounds good, I agree that its seems that the ally should receive the benefit of two shields in some situations, but I guess my argument against that is that having more than one shield guarding would be rather awkward and suffer from diminishing returns, and I really don't want to get into something complicated like that.


Good grief that's complicated.

Counter or Strike-Standard Action, requires melee weapon or IUA; to use as a counter, an opponent must attack you and miss; to use as a strike, strike the opponent and forgo damage. On your opponents turn (including the initial turn) you make an opposed attack roll against your opponent. If you win, your opponent cannot attack during that round, or you may end the maneuver. If your opponent wins, the maneuver is ended and he may act as he likes. If either of character takes any other action (other than AoOs against each other), they provoke an AoO from the other. The winner of a Winding and Binding roll may make an opposed strength check to push their opponent back 5 feet and move into the square the opponent previously occupied.

Yeah, my thought when I wrote that up was, "Man, people already feel that grappling is too complicated, they are really going to hate this".

I like the fix though I might make a few changes. I might do away with the ability to make attacks of opportunity while using Winding and Binding. Winding and Binding is supposed to represent a clash of blades where the two warriors vie to keep the other's weapon from meeting its mark, so being able to make attacks of opportunity seems a little out of place. However, the ability is already very situational in its usefulness, and doing away with attacks of opportunity might just mean that nobody uses it.


I would remove the "Power Attack with AC" from this one.

Yeah, the power attack thing doesn't really add much to the ability and requires a feat, you may be right in saying that it isn't worth including.


change "before the target's charge maneuver is resolved" to "when the target is adjacent to the fighter's threatened area".

That makes sense.


At what attack bonus?

That should be full attack bonus, good catch.


Incidentally, I'm not fond of the extra bonus damage with two handers for Meet the Charge, Warrior's Gambit, and Eagle Strike - since it's multiplied by critical hits, it has some serious potential for one-hit kills. Eagle Strike with a greatsword can crit for as much as 27d6 damage, Warrior's Gambit can crit for 32d6, and the longspear you mention in Meet the Charge crits for 3d8+48d6 damage at level 16.

Yeah, this was my concern as well. On one hand, not being able to multiply the bonus damage makes the maneuvers weaker than a full attack, especially once characters have +5 flaming greatswords. On the other hand, as you point out, multiplying the damage on maneuvers can produce some devistating damage. I guess I am going to side with you though, seeing as most high level characters are unlikely to crit with all their attacks in one round. Maybe as a compromise I will add some bonus crit damage to some of the maneuvers or stances.


change "this turn" to "while in this stance".

Oh yep, thats a mistake.


With the bonus damage multiplication on crits, this one makes me cringe. Also, there's no reason not to go all-out with Courageous Charge, since your AC is already tanked.

I actually like the idea of a fighter dumping all their AC to perform a massive attack. As the character goes up in levels, this AC penalty will become less important, but without the crit multiplier applying to bonus damage, so will the increased damage that is gained from Berserker Stance. So I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.


My gut says "abusable", if it stacks with Combat Reflexes.

Yeah, I saw the potential for getting 8 or more attacks of opportunity a round, but then I thought to myself, How often are you really going to be able to use all of those attacks in a round?

As this fighter relies heavily on AoOs for their Counter Maneuvers, I didn't want to force the fighter into purchasing a feat and having a high Dex score to be viable.


Sorry for tearing into this guy with such abandon

I like the fix overall, but I think it could use some balancing... and bonus dice shouldn't be crit-able.

Not at all, I greatly appreciate you looking over my creation and find those areas that need fixing. That was the purpose of posting it on the forums after all.

tsuuga
2008-07-01, 12:47 PM
I would be much more comfortable with adding a set number of bonus dice on a critical. I'd also like to suggest adding status effects on a crit to a few of those.

darkzucchini
2008-07-01, 01:09 PM
I'd also like to suggest adding status effects on a crit to a few of those.

Interesting idea. Care to enlighten me as to what effects you would add to which abilities?