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View Full Version : [GURPS] Houserules for an Arcanum setting



Jimp
2008-06-30, 06:16 PM
A few days ago I made a thread asking if there was an rpg system based on the computer rpg Acanum. Wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura). A few people suggested using GURPS. Since then I've reread the 3rd edition rulebook and got my hands on a copy of the Steampunk splat book. Most of what is involved in Arcanum is covered by these two books, but one or two key issues aren't.
In the setting magic and technology are at odds with each other. A character can either be skilled with magic OR technology, but not both. This works in the game using a magic-technology scale. The more points your character invested in one side, the more difficult it got to use skills from the other side.
How would you translate this into the GURPS system?
My first idea was increased point costs for opposing skills. Something along the lines of 'if you have more than X points in magic or technology skills, then the opposing skills cost double/triple points'.
Another idea is check penalties. Something similar to 'if you have more than X points in magic or technology skills, then you take a -4/-6/etc to checks made with the opposing skill'.
A third option is to use both houserules.
Do these rules seem fair or workable? Any other ideas?

Also, I haven't played very far into the game so if there is anything else important to the setting that isn't covered somewhere in the GURPS rules please let me know :smallsmile:.

JellyPooga
2008-06-30, 06:52 PM
This is a conundrum I thought about for a long while before I gave up on the grounds of it being more effort than it was worth to get a satisfactory system...however, I'll share my thoughts:

1)Magic vs. Tech for the user: The first concept to consider is the difficulty of using both Magic and Technology as a single character...i.e. if you are good at magic, technology tends not to work and vice versa...this is the aspect you have considered and either or both of your suggestions are fairly satisfactory (though they require a lot of work to implement...i.e. you have to trawl through all the skills and decide what's a 'magic', 'tech' or 'unaligned' skill and which counts for what level [e.g. having the Zombie spell skill is obviously more 'magical' than having the Thaumatology skill, though both are clearly magically aligned and should hamper 'tech' skills].

2)Magic guy vs. Tech guy: The second concept to consider is that Magic and Tech have less effect when used against/on another person strongly aligned to one end of the spectrum (i.e. casting Heal on a strongly Tech aligned person is less effective or simply doesn't work). This is not so easily adjudicated, as you have to now make comparisons between your own and others' Magic-Tech level. Conversely, casting using Magic on a Magic user is more effective, which might make the comparison scale a little more complicated (depending on how you work it).This is probably best solved by imposing positive/negative modifiers based on a sliding scale like the one in the computer game. Remember that this also applies to items as well...a Magic user had difficulty using Tech items and vice versa.

3)Magic and Tech masters: The third thing to think about is that someone with a high rating in either Tech or Magic automatically becomes a better user by virtue of having a lot of skills of that type...so someone with lots of Magic skills not only is good at magic because they have X points spent on this spell or that, but also because they have spent a total of Y points on maigic. In short, specialising in the Arcanum setting is a quick road to high powered abilities (though to balance it you're supposed to be less flexible...something that is harder to translate into as diverse a game as GURPS).

4)possible Spoiler for Arcanum:
There are hints you find later in the game that magic and technology can be combined successfully...I forget what they are 'cos it's been ages since I played it, but ther you go...possibly better used as a plot device rather than a rules implement

-------------------------------

The best suggestion I can give is to devise the Magic-Tech scale in the CRPG in GURPS (if indeed you're going to use GURPS)...you would need to assign a "Magic" and/or "Tech" level to every skill, ability and item and then decide what modifiers to apply based on those relative levels...like I said, the most satisfactory solution is probably too much effort to be worth it (it was for me anyway!).

One thing I just thought of...your suggestion about altering the points cost based on your magic-tech level is probably not ideal given that your magic-tech level can change quite quickly...e.g. I'm at +10 on the M-T scale, so pay 1 point/level for X ability. When I'm at +50 on the M-T scale I have to pay 3 points/level for X ability. If I spend 3 points on X when I'm at +10, then go up to +50 and spend a further 3 points (putting me at lvl. 4 in X), but then go back down to +10, how does it calculate? I've spent 6 points (so should have Lvl. 6 in X), bu only have lvl. 4...just a thought...

...anyway, hope I've given you some food for thought or helped in some way...

Jimp
2008-07-02, 01:19 PM
Hmm, good points.
I forgot about the diminished effects of magic on tech users. Does this apply for tech users doing things to magic users?
My first idea for dealing with this would be a % failure chance based on how far from 0 on the scale someone is. Granted this involved making a scale and bringing d10 into the GURPS game, but it could work. It seems that the game itself uses a similar mechanic.
As for a scale, it should probably be based on points spent in skills but as you said it could be hard to determine how tech or how magic skills are considered. I'll go through the skill list soon and see what I come up with. I'll probably only assign a tech or magic value to skills that are clearly one or the other, like engineering and would be tech but craft wouldn't.
The magic working better with other magic users idea might not transfer into GURPS, since it's just the standard spell with it's effect.
It looks like this might be tougher than anticipated :smallbiggrin:.

GolemsVoice
2008-07-02, 01:41 PM
Well, I'm not familiar with GURPS, but wih Arcanum.

Does this apply for tech users doing things to magic users?
Well, it's a little bit different here. So, a bullet (fired from a tech-weapon) would still harm a mage, and maybe even bypass some of the mage's protective gear and spells, while the mage's "Harm" spell would have a lesser effect on the tech-guy were it the other way round. But: technology tends to go wrong just from having magic around. So, technology has a more piercing effect, while magic has a more hampering effect., at least that's how I figured out it would be. (Note the experiments described in the original handbook)
That leads to another problem you must deal with. Of course, magic and technology conflict each other on a personal level, but especially magic will have a possibly devasting effect on machines. Just the aura of a magic-user standing near a steam-engine could cause said amchine to fail, and probably collapse. So you might want to assign a "magic aura", maybe based on the system you use for skills, which reflects the disturbance caused by a strong caster. There may also be problems vice-versa (like a fully industrialized city disturbing a caster's powers), but I'm not sure of that.

By the way: if you manage to create such a system, let me know of it, I beg you.

Jimp
2008-07-02, 01:55 PM
For magic auras interfering with machines I think that opposed checks using the normal GURPS procedure could work. If the mage wins then the machine is affected, how badly depends on how much the mage wins by. The machine could use either an attending character to make the check or have some kind of inbuilt value to check against, based on the machine's complexity. This way if you have a magic user and a tech user in the same party, the mage's aura would probably not affect the tech user since the tech user's skills would give his tech items a larger chance of resisting the aura. Naturally things would still go wrong if a stronger magic user was around.
What you actually roll against is another thing. Perhaps rolling against your position on the magic-tech scale could work.
Yet another tricky aspect to deal with :smallamused:.

Jayabalard
2008-07-02, 02:28 PM
In the setting magic and technology are at odds with each other. A character can either be skilled with magic OR technology, but not both. This works in the game using a magic-technology scale. The more points your character invested in one side, the more difficult it got to use skills from the other side.
How would you translate this into the GURPS system?The easy way: get players to be reasonable about what skills they pick so that you don't have to load up with a bunch of arbitrary rules except where you have to. This might be enough as long as you have people who are mature enough not to try and take advantage of the rules-lightness of it.

I'd say to do it with check penalties rather than increasing skill costs.

Modify the magery skill a bit: apply double the modifier negative to any tech based skills. So magery 1 would give you +1 to IQ for figuring spell skills, but -2 for figuring tech based skills.

Add a Gadgeteering advantage; have it work the same way as magery but in reverse (positive for tech, minus for magic). There were gadgeteering rules in gurps supers (2nd ed I think) but I'm not sure where else they might be.


You probably will want to read a bit on the SJ forums: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=30998 since I know that there are people who have done this in the past.