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BurnHavoc
2008-07-02, 05:20 PM
http://www.wizards.com/download.asp?filename=Dragon_364.pdf

I'm liking this method of adding content to the game, they're adding everything they publish to their online tools and hand you the PDFs as well. I think for now Dragon and Dungeon will be free downloads and eventually you'll either get them through DnDi or just a dungeon/dragon subscription for less the cost.

Nonetheless, between the Warforged race rules, Wizard Illusionist rules, extra Kobold monster stats/encounter groups, and even a small taste of Dark Sun content for the hell of it (even though it's not that much, 3 hazards :/) I'm thinking this will be a damn neat way to release game content without everyone having to go pay for another $35-40 book.

I've been on the dislike side of the fence about 4th ed up until I started reading through the Dragon magazine content. It's actually got me pumped. New game content every few days? I can live with that.

It's prompted me to run a whenever drop-in game at my house, just cobble togeather a quick character and randomly throw people at some of the scenarios and monsters that are released in the pdfs for fun. Stuff that dosn't take up more than 40-90min of peoples time. That way I can get a taste of all the content as it gets published and comment on it.

I noticed the PDFs that were released early on in the month had alot of feedback on the wizards forums (I even emailed in a correction to one of the articles) and when they released the compiled PFD they fixed all the errors people had pointed out. I'm impressed. I'm VERY impressed.

LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 05:23 PM
I did like the articles in this issue. Just curious, length-wise, how does it stack up to previous issues of Dragon? I didnt read it print format.

AKA_Bait
2008-07-02, 05:25 PM
Wait... wizards released something they aren't making a profit off... on time?

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 05:34 PM
I wonder how much it would cost to get this printed out, full color, at kinkos.

marjan
2008-07-02, 05:36 PM
Wait... wizards released something they aren't making a profit off... on time?

Apocalypse is near.

RTGoodman
2008-07-02, 05:39 PM
I don't know why, but the "landscape" format (rather than the "portait" format) makes me angry. Maybe it's because it's harder to print out and bind it into a cohesive "magazine" shape on my normal printer and stuff at home, but I just don't care for it.

I like the content, though, and I'm REALLY glad to hear that they're updating the PDFs as people make corrections and whatnot.


I wonder how much it would cost to get this printed out, full color, at kinkos.

Yeah, I just thought about that too, but with Staples instead of Kinko's (I've found that it's usually cheaper to get stuff done there).

Kurald Galain
2008-07-02, 06:15 PM
http://www.wizards.com/download.asp?filename=Dragon_364.pdf
Looks nice enough, but too bad they got rid of the comics section.

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 06:20 PM
Yeah, I just thought about that too, but with Staples instead of Kinko's (I've found that it's usually cheaper to get stuff done there).

I must suck at the internet... I couldnt find prices at either Staples or Kinko's website. I guess they price by job and not a flat rate? :smalleek:

RTGoodman
2008-07-02, 06:54 PM
I must suck at the internet... I couldnt find prices at either Staples or Kinko's website. I guess they price by job and not a flat rate? :smalleek:

Yeah, I think so. I know that one of my friends has printed out several hundreds of pages from PDFs (for a full band's worth of sheet music of a piece of music we had commissioned for my high school band) and it wasn't too expensive, but it was black-and-white and color is always a lot more. Like, I needed to make 25 copies of a four-page color handout for a presentation in my senior seminar class back in May and ended up paying $0.19 PER SHEET at Staples. (Kinko's, on the other had, was something like $0.29 to $0.34 per color copy.)

I figure that printouts would be at least a little cheaper than copies, but I'm not sure. I'll probably go check it tomorrow and report back if no one else can give any info by then.

ArmLion
2008-07-02, 07:13 PM
I think I can safely say that there is absolutely no way that printing this out at a place like Kinkos is going to be remotely worth it. It's 85 pages long, so even at 15 cents a page your looking at more than $10 dollars... and that's definitely not what it costs... for color anyway.

If you have access to a nice color printer of your own, then it's another story.

RTGoodman
2008-07-02, 07:59 PM
Alright, so I found how to look up prices online at Staples.com's Copy Center, and here's what I found.

To get this thing printed out in color, double-sided, on standard white paper, and "saddle-stitch" bound with two staples (like a real magazine), it would cost a whopping $41.90.

If you're willing to get it in black-and-white, you can get all of the above, minus the color printing, for $3.97.

You can fiddle around with paper type/quality/weight, binding type, and stuff like that and change the price a little, but as it stands it looks like a color version is WAY too expensive.

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 08:52 PM
yeah, I'm not paying that much. I wonder how Black And White would turn out.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-07-02, 09:07 PM
The Illusionist at-will power certainly seems a bit sub-par to me. Ray of Frost or Magic Missile looks to be much better choices for single-target mayhem, or is a -2 really all that good in 4e?

SamTheCleric
2008-07-02, 09:08 PM
The Illusionist at-will power certainly seems a bit sub-par to me. Ray of Frost or Magic Missile looks to be much better choices for single-target mayhem, or is a -2 really all that good in 4e?

-2 is huuuuge in 4e.

Every +1 to attack is needed... and -any- penalty you can give is like gold plated diamonds.

LoopyZebra
2008-07-02, 09:09 PM
The Optimizers argue that, since, everything's based off attacks, a -2 to that really screws with a character. On the other hand, I personally think it's on-par with the other wizard powers.

RTGoodman
2008-07-02, 09:14 PM
As the previous two posters said, it's somewhere between on-par and awesome. Considering all attacks are based on 1/2 level + ability modifier (with a few modifiers here and there), that means your decreasing an enemies attack power by 4 levels in regards to to-hit rolls.

I personally like the Illusionist stuff for the most part. I'm thinking about creating a Wizard as my 2nd 4E character (even though I haven't gotten to use my first yet :smallmad:), and I may use Illusory Ambush (At-Will 1), Grasping Shadow (Encounter 1), Phantom Chasm (Daily 1, just because it's hilarious), Maze of Mirrors (Encounter 3), and maybe Phantasmal Assailant (Daily 5) or Enemies Abound (Encounter 7).

Xyk
2008-07-02, 09:48 PM
The kobold part interests me the most actually. The little victory dances. They are so silly. I'll use those things in my current 3.5 game.

TheEmerged
2008-07-03, 04:25 PM
Darn it, I forgot to download this last night! Maybe if I mark the post I can remember it :smalltongue:

puppyavenger
2008-07-03, 06:05 PM
I actually found the Ashbound Covenant quite interesting, same with the demnomicon

FoE
2008-07-03, 06:18 PM
I actually found the Ashbound Covenant quite interesting, same with the demonomicon

Yeah, me too. A cult trying to bring about the "death of death" that seems ripe for a lot of plot hooks. Moreso than your general "blargh, let's raise zombies and kill a bunch of people" modus operandi.

Matthew
2008-07-03, 06:26 PM
Wait... wizards released something they aren't making a profit off... on time?

I am still wondering why issues 361-363 of Dragon and 151-154 of Dungeon have not been compiled into their own pdfs...

Joran
2008-07-03, 06:37 PM
As the previous two posters said, it's somewhere between on-par and awesome. Considering all attacks are based on 1/2 level + ability modifier (with a few modifiers here and there), that means your decreasing an enemies attack power by 4 levels in regards to to-hit rolls.


It's all attacks subtracted by 2, which is pretty powerful, since all attack rolls for an area spell are affected. Tack on the fact that it also works for opportunity attacks, and it's really powerful.

For instance, lance of faith, the cleric at-will only gives a +2 to only one attack roll, just one.