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Cowboy_ninja
2008-07-03, 12:47 PM
Im in a dungeon that is intended to go to lvl 20 starting at lvl 1.

My character is headed for the master transmogrifist. the thing is my DM is notorious for underestimating his challenges and getting his players killed.

the point: i need tips/tricks to get my wizard to his prestige class alive. Ninja whats his face is a guide to being batman. I need tips for being completely defensive as a wizard. So spell recommendations, feat recommendations, items, etc. geared to staying alive.

DMG, PHB, and the 4 main completes only.

thanks in advanced to all posters!

Kurald Galain
2008-07-03, 01:04 PM
There you go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500).

I'd suggest specialist (or if possible, focused specialist) to avoid running out of spells at low level. Conjurer and Transmuter are best.

Whatever you do, keep one or two spell slots reserved for emergency escape options (such as invisibility or, later on, dimdoor). These tend to get you out of a tight spot if all else fails.

Signmaker
2008-07-03, 01:11 PM
TLN's guide actually applies quite well to your discussion. Save-or(X)s, Touch Rays, probably the best tools at your survivor's disposal.

This is quite unorthodox, from what I've experienced, but it may be a good idea for your wizard to use his familiar to the maximum potential. Improved Familiar allows for a variety of monsters to serve as your familiar. Besides special qualities, some of these creatures also have the capability to UMD, and decently at that. While this borderlines on Leadership cheese, it is actually a much weaker variety, because you almost always have to provide your familiar with magic items to 'fix' certain stats (Boosting Int or Wis to be able to UMD without a second roll comes to mind).

Improved Toughness, as I've been told by a Con-whoring wizard player, is extremely useful in allowing your wizard to survive more rounds.

Not being a real fan of the wizard class (Unless I am allowed the compendium or splatbooks with spell variety, the core spells are simply too bland and boring for my taste), I'm afraid I really can't help you here. Hopefully, though, my suggestions are at least par for the course.

valadil
2008-07-03, 01:24 PM
My advice for a wizard is to not draw aggro. If you drop a save or die on the BBEG's pet cleric in the first round, all the enemies will go after you before you can do it again. Buff your team. Nobody ever got killed for casting haste.

mostlyharmful
2008-07-03, 01:41 PM
Nobody ever got killed for casting haste.

Obviously you never played in my 2nd Ed group...:smallwink:

Cowboy_ninja
2008-07-03, 01:43 PM
There you go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500).

I'd suggest specialist (or if possible, focused specialist) to avoid running out of spells at low level. Conjurer and Transmuter are best.

Whatever you do, keep one or two spell slots reserved for emergency escape options (such as invisibility or, later on, dimdoor). These tend to get you out of a tight spot if all else fails.

where is focused specialist?

marjan
2008-07-03, 02:07 PM
where is focused specialist?

Alternate class feature from Complete Mage.

LatemYvaeh
2008-07-03, 02:55 PM
I am playing a generalist wizard for my current group
Craft Magical Wand is a very useful skill for defensive mage
Summon Monster Wands at highest level available makes a great tool
1st level Celestial owls, Celestial Porposes and Celestial dogs with their smite evil and Elec DR can save your bacon now mind you it does cost exp to create but as you can see even a 1st level wand allows you to produce air ground and water defense When you get to 5th level make the Summon monster three and you can summon small armies that last 5 rounds

MammonAzrael
2008-07-03, 04:17 PM
Obviously you never played in my 2nd Ed group...:smallwink:

But you didn't really want that extra year of life, did you? Did you?

On topic, TLN's guide should work quite well for you. Just remember that Save or suck/die will be much more usefull to you than HP damage, especially if you're DM underestimates his challenges.

Oh, and if he likes Dragons, Shivering Touch is your friend...if you can convince him to let you use it.

Another_Poet
2008-07-03, 04:22 PM
Remember Mage Armr and Shield stack.

Stay at the rear.

Choose a toad for a familiar.

Be nice to your teammates and buff them whenever possible.

Hoard potions. As soon as you can buy a potion of Bear's Endurance, do so.

Don't waste a feat on Toughness, or even Improved Toughness - it's better to stick it out for a couple of levels cowering in the rear.

Try to get your DM hooked on Paizo's Pathfinder rules for D&D 3.5 - they are free on the Paizo site and the core wizard has a d6 HD.

Con is your second most important stat after Int.

ap

monty
2008-07-03, 04:30 PM
Remember Mage Armr and Shield stack.

Stay at the rear.

Choose a toad for a familiar.

Be nice to your teammates and buff them whenever possible.

Hoard potions. As soon as you can buy a potion of Bear's Endurance, do so.

Don't waste a feat on Toughness, or even Improved Toughness - it's better to stick it out for a couple of levels cowering in the rear.

Try to get your DM hooked on Paizo's Pathfinder rules for D&D 3.5 - they are free on the Paizo site and the core wizard has a d6 HD.

Con is your second most important stat after Int.

ap

Wait, get a toad but don't get Improved Toughness?

I'd think that by the time it matters, 1 hp/level would be much better than 3 hp. There's got to be a better familiar choice than that.

mostlyharmful
2008-07-03, 04:55 PM
But you didn't really want that extra year of life, did you? Did you?

well no. I am however the guy that tortured the hogtied psycho with gray hairs. Then they untied him.... then I suffered....:smallfrown: Completely unreasonable in my opinion:smallsmile:

LatemYvaeh
2008-07-03, 06:01 PM
Some people think Raven with Your Use Magical Device skill maxed is a good familiar
Give your Raven wands, it can use it while you do other things, it can even use cleric wands because it is going to have to roll to use them any way

Eldariel
2008-07-03, 06:43 PM
Focused Specialist: Conjurer, pick up Abrupt Jaunt (ACF from PHBII, replaces familiar - allows you to Immediate Action Teleport 10ft Int times per day; very useful for staying alive by teleporting from attacks, getting out of lockdown and so on - of course, this isn't an option if PHB doesn't cover PHBII), take feat Obtain Familiar to make your Prestige-levels stack for it and to get Familiar in spite of Abrupt Jaunt.

Then get Improved Familiar; an Imp is a huge tank on early levels with Alternate Form (DR and Fast Healing = good times) and all that, especially since it gets to use your HP, which tends to be a lot thanks to your huge Constitution (you do have 18 Con, right?).


On early levels, you have too low spell durations and too few slots to cast defensive spells, further enhancing Abrupt Jaunt's importance. Your spell slots should be used for offensive encounter-enders; the best way to stay alive is to stop the opponents before they get to deal damage. The most powerful first level spells would probably have to be Sleep, Color Spray and Grease, so prepare lots of those (Grease happens to be a Conjuration-spell too; if fights are condensed in time, you may be able to spare a slot even for Mage Armor as a Focused Specialist!)

Iku Rex
2008-07-03, 07:23 PM
It's too bad you can only use those 4 completes. The Spell Compendium in particular would have been useful.

Some thoughs:

Get a high Con and the Improved Toughness (CWar) feat. Hit points are important. The false life spell provides temporary hit points on top of your own.

Mage armor, shield and alter self (troglodyte) can boost your AC. Try to get hold of a deflection bonus (Ring of Protection), a natural armor bonus (Amulet of Natural Armor) and an insight bonus (Dusty Rose Ioun Stone) as well.

Mirror image can be good, as can haste, fly, heroism and blink.

If you want to risk melee pre-polymorph, wraithstrike (CAdv) and fist of stone (CArc) are helpful. Consider getting Power Attack solely to use it with wraithstrike. Wraithstrike is also good with Extend Spell. Keep in mind that the alter self trog form comes with three natural attacks and the Multiattack feat in addition to +6 AC. A reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and high Dex can make up for your low BAB a little, especially if you use enlarge person to get 20' reach.

You should have invisibility prepared or on a scroll in case you need to get away from a bad situation.

Signmaker
2008-07-03, 07:29 PM
Some people think Raven with Your Use Magical Device skill maxed is a good familiar
Give your Raven wands, it can use it while you do other things, it can even use cleric wands because it is going to have to roll to use them any way

Ice Mephit is better. As is Imp. You have to get them at a later level, but...

nargbop
2008-07-03, 07:41 PM
If you can get your DM to put a Magic Shop in the dungeon, buy Bracers of Armor.

Or, do what one of my friends did, and make a "Kralgor wants this" list. Watch your DM squirm about thinking "Where can I reasonably drop this item?" Belt of Battle? OK, you're going to have to go WAY over your appropriate difficulty for that fight.


P.S. Belt of Battle messes up the game. I will never allow it in future games that I DM.

Eldariel
2008-07-03, 08:37 PM
P.S. Belt of Battle messes up the game. I will never allow it in future games that I DM.

Huh? It's only one-two effects per day. With an average number of encounters per day, it's perfectly ok; the problem is the low price.

EndlessWrath
2008-07-04, 12:16 AM
I find some of the strongest abilities the ones that leave the most room to explore, or do ability stat damage. Touch of idiocy, level 2 spell I believe. Can be used to make a touch attack. if you succeed, the target takes 1d6points of Intel, wisdom, OR charisma damage. once the creature reaches 0 its knocked unconscious (if it were strength,dex,or con, it would be dead.) Either way is extremely effective... add that to True strike. (+20 to hit) makes it very dangerous. If you were a sorcerer and had a familiar, you could use that familiar to deliver a touch attack itself so you don't have to get into the melee

otherwise, 3.5 has a large list of spells that are quite open...although I personally like insanity...Its funny and effective :smallbiggrin:

Draz74
2008-07-04, 12:58 AM
Choose a toad rat, or maybe a weasel for a familiar.

Fixed that for you.

SoD
2008-07-04, 02:40 AM
Oh, and if he likes Dragons, Shivering Touch is your friend...if you can convince him to let you use it.

This bit's debatable, if you mean to paralyse dragons. On one hand, when a creature hits 0 dexterity, they are paralysed. On the other hand...dragons are immune to paralysation.

Draz74
2008-07-04, 02:44 AM
This bit's debatable, if you mean to paralyse dragons. On one hand, when a creature hits 0 dexterity, they are paralysed. On the other hand...dragons are immune to paralysation.

Technically, dragons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#dragonType) are immune to "paralysis effects." When we had a big debate over it, I think the general consensus was that the 0 Dex rule didn't count as an "effect," but rather as a rule, and therefore could still affect dragons.

But anything that nerfs Shivering Touch is a good houserule in my book.

Reinboom
2008-07-04, 05:05 AM
Another way is to just look at the rules compendium.
Which only states that "Dexterity 0 means that a creature canít move at all. It
stands motionless, rigid, and helpless."
And since the rules compendium has that all too important line that states that it trumps core...



Also, it can't be emphasized enough if you always will be in a dungeon: Rope Trick.

AslanCross
2008-07-04, 05:55 AM
Is any DM dumb enough to actually let the dragon sit on the ground so that it can get whacked with shivering cheese? (Yeah, Wizards can fly too, but dragons are better at it.)

Anyway, control spells like grease, stinking cloud (just make sure your friends don't get trapped in it) and Evard's black tentacles are very helpful. There's also the various save or x effects, as per the Batman guide.

marjan
2008-07-04, 06:05 AM
Yeah, Wizards can fly too, but dragons are better at it.


If you consider that maneuverability doesn't mean anything then yes, otherwise no.

TempusCCK
2008-07-04, 11:29 AM
Or you cast it as a ranged touch spell with Spectral Hand, or Reach Spell through archmage/feats....

jlousivy
2008-07-04, 12:48 PM
For survivability, take this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererWizard) and take a wolf, then take natural bond as a feat at 3rd level. BAM. you have yourself a personal meat shield, as you gain levels you can swap him out for something else as well.

Cowboy_ninja
2008-07-04, 05:16 PM
It's too bad you can only use those 4 completes. The Spell Compendium in particular would have been useful.

Some thoughs:

Get a high Con and the Improved Toughness (CWar) feat. Hit points are important. The false life spell provides temporary hit points on top of your own.

Mage armor, shield and alter self (troglodyte) can boost your AC. Try to get hold of a deflection bonus (Ring of Protection), a natural armor bonus (Amulet of Natural Armor) and an insight bonus (Dusty Rose Ioun Stone) as well.

Mirror image can be good, as can haste, fly, heroism and blink.

If you want to risk melee pre-polymorph, wraithstrike (CAdv) and fist of stone (CArc) are helpful. Consider getting Power Attack solely to use it with wraithstrike. Wraithstrike is also good with Extend Spell. Keep in mind that the alter self trog form comes with three natural attacks and the Multiattack feat in addition to +6 AC. A reach weapon, Combat Reflexes and high Dex can make up for your low BAB a little, especially if you use enlarge person to get 20' reach.

You should have invisibility prepared or on a scroll in case you need to get away from a bad situation.

by pre-ploymorph you mean alterself ?

i do intend to persue the Warrior spelcaster archtype form complete mage. but again im worried i wont make it to master transmogrifist. I really dont want to have to multiclass.

Cowboy_ninja
2008-07-04, 05:41 PM
Fixed that for you.

i really was considering toad... but can it deliver touch spells? it doesnt even have an attack in the MM?