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JohnnyArkham
2008-07-03, 06:43 PM
Any fans hereabouts?
Anyone done anything interesting with Nehwon in their personal campaigns or done any 3rd edition representations of either the 'heroes' or the various baddies?
Inquiring minds want to know....

Mark Hall
2008-07-04, 01:52 AM
Have wanted to read, never had copies available.

Dhavaer
2008-07-04, 04:45 AM
I've read two, the second and the last, I think. A very good feel, although I don't think it matches D&D's very well.

Bosh
2008-07-04, 05:35 AM
Love those books silly, but pretty inappropriate for D&D. If I was running a Nehwon game I'd probably use Wushu or Fate.

JohnnyArkham
2008-07-04, 07:33 AM
Interesting responses. I think I'd be more inclined to say, inappropriate for the 3rd and 4th edition systems, and better under previous ones.
In fact, if memory serves, Holy Gygax put a section on Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser in the original Deities and Demigods.
Nehwon is really just a setting anyway; not sure I could definitively say it doesn't work with any mechanics system. It's more a matter of style and atmosphere than anything else.
Really good series if you ever get the chance to read 'em.
I'm reliving the classics lately; rereading Howard and Leiber, and possibly moving on to Tolkein afterwards.
Good stuff

Matthew
2008-07-04, 09:01 AM
Sure, Lankhamar was an AD&D setting for a while.

Meat Shield
2008-07-04, 10:07 AM
Matthew's right. I've got Lankhmar, City of Adventure, TSR 1985. As a sourcebook, its pretty good. New monsters, characters, plot lines, good maps.

I like Lieber, but he is just about the most inconsistent writer I have ever read. I find his works to be either brilliant or written by a third grader. It's a crap shoot for what you are going to get. For everyone that had them dealing with the wererat invasion there is one like the time they were cursed by the wizards.

All that being said, however, I have the first chapter of Swords of Lankhmar in my game bag. I try to read it before every session. That to me is the best written version of what I want from D&D ever put to paper. Ever.

WhiteHarness
2008-07-04, 10:17 AM
Have wanted to read, never had copies available.You should have mentioned something years ago, Mark. I've owned copies of most of them for quite a while...

Chronos
2008-07-04, 12:46 PM
I'm in much the same situation as Mark. I've read "Ill Met in Lankhmar", which I think is the first one, in a collection of award-winning stories, but I've never been able to find any of the others. You'd think that, as popular as they are among fantasy readers, they'd have gotten a few reprintings.

Meat Shield
2008-07-04, 12:58 PM
Yep, Ill Met in Lankhmar is the first one. It's pretty good. I think overall the wererat one is the best, but the title escapes me right now.

And yes, lack of reprintings is definitely an issue. Luckily, my library has copies of everything. Check yours out.

potatocubed
2008-07-04, 02:56 PM
If you want all the Lankhmar books...

You can find the first collection here (http://www.amazon.com/First-Lankhmar-Millennium-Fantasy-Masterworks/dp/1857983270/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215201277&sr=8-2) and the second collection here (http://www.amazon.com/Second-Book-Lankhmar-Fantasy-Masterworks/dp/0575073586/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215201277&sr=8-1).

That series has reprinted a whole load of classic fantasy if you're in the market for it.

mcv
2008-07-06, 04:06 PM
Yep, Ill Met in Lankhmar is the first one.
It's not. Neither in when it was written (1970, when the first story was from 1939), nor in the lives of our heroes, although you're not far off there. There are two (or three, if you count a 2-page introduction) prequels to Ill Met In Lankhmar: Snow Women (introducing Fafhrd), and The Unholy Grail (introducing the Gray Mouser). I think they were written in the same year as "Ill Met".

All these stories (and lots of others) have been released in a couple of big collections in the '90s and again around 2000 by White Wolf. Perhaps that may help those interested to locate these stories, although it's still not easy.

shylocxs
2008-07-07, 07:09 AM
I loved Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. Leiber was inspirational for me when I was starting out with RPGs.... when I was 12. Well, I haven't played much at all in recent years, but I reread the stories, and they're definitely hit or miss. Still, worth reading, since Leiber inspired so many other people as well.

And they just got reissued by Dark Horse publishing, though they're a little bit pricey, IMHO. Just look up Fritz Leiber on Amazon.

Lapak
2008-07-07, 09:38 AM
The early stories are fantastic and the decline in quality is pretty sharp as you get further in the duo's career, in my opinion. Everything up through Lean Times in Lankhmar is excellent, with that story being the high point in the series for me.

I was actually thinking in another thread that 4e makes a true-to-the-fiction Mouser build possible for the first time. He's pretty clearly a Rogue build (sneaky high damage melee combat with throwing knives for ranged attacks) who has taken Ritual Casting and skill training in Arcana. That fits his 'dabbling in elaborate magical rituals' bit to a T. The lack of non-multiclassed spellcasting made fitting him into earlier editions hard, because he's NOT a combat caster of any sort.

Dervag
2008-07-07, 10:20 AM
It's not. Neither in when it was written (1970, when the first story was from 1939), nor in the lives of our heroes, although you're not far off there. There are two (or three, if you count a 2-page introduction) prequels to Ill Met In Lankhmar: Snow Women (introducing Fafhrd), and The Unholy Grail (introducing the Gray Mouser). I think they were written in the same year as "Ill Met".The prequels don't feature both of them. So while they may be Fafhrd or Gray Mouser stories, they are not stories about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. And therefore are not the first story about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.

Lawyering, I know, but lawyering that has precedents in the very stories we are talking about.

Scaboroth
2008-07-07, 06:48 PM
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser... ahh, some of the best times of my childhood were spent wrapped up in their books. And the great thing is, I can come back to them every 5-10 years, reread the whole lot, and still get just as much out of it as when I was a youngling.

As to this talk that they are inappropriate for D&D. Uh... what? F&GM are what classic D&D was founded on. To me, at least, the old-school feel of Dungeons and Dragons was equal parts Tolkien, Elric, Conan, and Newhon (just started reading some stuff by Jack Vance, which may very quickly need to be included in the above list). Newhon would make for a gritty, low-magic setting, true, but what a setting! So much racy adventure, the low-fantasy scoundrel-hero need look no further. I have tried to insert a Lankhmar-like city (usually thinly disguised) into just about every campaign I have ever run.

And if you're curious, I know of a D&D forum-site where someone put together some excellent builds based on many fictional characters, including Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser. Check it out here (http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=644).

nagora
2008-07-07, 06:53 PM
Essential reading for any DM or player, except for the last one (Knight and Knave). Do not ever read this book; it will take the shine off all the previous ones.