Historians in the Playground

[TwoBitWriter]

I was wondering if there were anyone else who is apart of these forums who studies history?

You don't have to have formal education to post, just have an interest in the subject. I would love to be able to talk about my passion with others.

I personally focused most of my study on Europe, specifically Central Europe. I have always been very fascinated with German culture and history. I can dive into a book about Frederick II of Prussia, or Maria Theresa of Austria. I have studied the German peoples from the classical era to the end of the 19th Century. I particularly liked learning about German rulers, the Holy Roman Empire and the countless kingdoms/duchies/principalities/etc that comprised it, Prussia, Austria, and German Unification.
I also dabbled in American History and some spots of Asian history (China's Three Kingdom era, Japan's Warring States and Meiji periods are some examples.) I wasn't able to cover too much African or Middle-Eastern history, and there weren't many available options to cover them at my University. I would love to talk to someone who has studied either of those regions

But I would like to know what everyone else may be interested in.

The Lecture Hall can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4580740#post4580740)

List of Lecture Volunteers:

1) TwoBitWriter - German History from Classical to Modern
2) Paladin29 - Ancient Mesopotamian Culture
3) CurlyKitGirl - Late Medieval/Early Rennaissance English History, the Reign of Caeser Augustus
4) LCR - Weimar Germany, 20th Century Inter-War period.
5) I'm Da Rogue! - Classical Age, Modern Greece
6) Serpentine - Classical Age Culture and History, Byzantine Empire, etc...
7) Arioch - Chinese Qin dynasty; the Tudor era; Pre-WW1 Britain; WW1, including leadup and aftermath; the world between the wars.
8) Vampiric -History of Martial Arts, World War II, Post WWII Russia, Philosophy
9) Vikingkingg - United States History
10) Gezina - Dutch History
11) Mr. Silver - 16th century Europe
12) MeklorIlavator - American History, WW1, WW2, Roman History, Early English History
13) Gwyn ap Nud - The Nature of History, History of Religion (Europe, Middle-East, and Africa)
14) Om - Social and political transformations of 19th C Europe

[Paladin29]

Hi!, I am in fourth year of History career. I am focused in Ancient History, specifically Mesopotamian history (Sumer, Akkad, Babylonian and Assirian History), but i am interested in all ancient history (Roman Empire, Greece (dark, arcaic and classical eras), Egypt, etc.). I am also interested in medieval history, but I love history and i will be glad to speak about my chosen profession with you and another playgrounder.

About your field of interest I am fascinated by Charlemagne (his ancestors and descendants too) and the duel of powers between the Pope and the Emperor too.

[TwoBitWriter]

When it comes to ancient culture, I know the basics of what occured but that is focused on cultures that were based around the Mediterranean. Most of what I know of the time comes from documentaries I watched, and Greek and Roman literature.

I would love to learn more about Mesopotamian culture because my knowledge is sorely lacking (as in I recognize the names you dropped, and can say that they are Mesopotamian, but specifics are a bit vague.)

An Charlemagne is indeed a most fascinating figure. One wonders what the Western World would be like if his Empire had survived past his lifetime!

[ForzaFiori]

I'm hugely interested in history, mainly in the medieval period and back, and any wars (mainly focused on WWII though). I'd like to make a career out of it, though I'm not sure what exactly to do with it. Teaching would be fun, but if i could find a more hands on job that would be better.

since Paladin did it, i figure i will too. About your interest, i love studying the "barbarians" from the Germanic area, specifically around the time of the fall of the Roman Empire.

[GenLee]

I've always loved history, especially military stuff. I have a B.A. degree with something of a military specialty, but I've not been able to really use it professionally. {Sigh}

I've had many period interests over the years, in no order:
- Poland (primarily the late Republic, 15th-17th centuries). This is purely a result of the 1980's RPG Twilight:2000, since the first 5 modules were set in Poland, and as I read them, I realized there was a whole nation's history here I had no clue about. So I read.
- Russia & the Soviet Union,
- World War II (especially the Pacific Theater),
- World War I is a more recent area of interest, there's a lot of recent scholarship worth reading.
- the period after the American Revolution, through the War of 1812.
- the American Civil War usually turns me off, but I've absorbed a lot about it anyway.
- my hometown of Columbus (founded 1797), since I worked for a while in the city library's history division.
- Railroads, mostly in America
- the Napoleonic Wars, a little bit, mostly the war at sea (yes, I'm a Patrick O'Brien fan).

I can blame my dad for #3 and #8, the rest I fell into myself.

[Tenadros]

I minored in western history in college. Know a good bit about the protestant reformation, western Civilisation in general. Studying the kievan rus and varangians at the moment.

Other than that have better than average knowledge of many things. With the exception of African and south east asian history.

[Vampiric]

I like discussing history, things like politics and cultural development - as well as idealogies and philosophies, such as Communism, Fascism, Socialism, and Despotism. As well as discussing things like Theocracies and Utopias, including the theoretical and practical points of the theories - like communism doesn't work, despite being a great idea.

Mainly interested in WWII, Russia (hence GCSE, AS and A2 in Russian) and general socio-cultural and religious attitudes of nations :smallsmile:

Never had any education beyond GCSE in history, though.

Anyone thought of designing a logo/banner for the group? I personally can't draw, and don't have illustrator.

[TwoBitWriter]

I'm hugely interested in history, mainly in the medieval period and back, and any wars (mainly focused on WWII though). I'd like to make a career out of it, though I'm not sure what exactly to do with it. Teaching would be fun, but if i could find a more hands on job that would be better.

You don't neccesarily have to teach. There are a few other options for those who study history. Some things to think about here (http://www.historians.org/pubs/Free/careers/index.htm)

I am hoping to go back to school soon to get my Masters in History. My ultimate goal is to teach History, eventually.

GenLee:
I'm surprised you are not that into the American Civil War with a name like "GenLee" :smallsmile: And all I know about Polish history is when they interacted with the Germans and the Russians. I knew that at one point they were one of the most powerful nations in Europe and they were basically jumped from all sides. I am glad that you mentioned your interest in the Railroad. Too often (and I am guilty of this as well, but its not neccesarily a bad thing) more focus is put on History's wars than anything else. I find early aviation to be a fascinating subject, and enjoy reading about the lives of people such as Leonardo DaVinci, Aristotle, and other inventors, thinkers, etc.

Vampiric:
If there is not already one, perhaps we can found the GitP Historical Society?
Maybe we can think of a group name, get a banner for our Sig's, etc.

[Paladin29]

I Love Mesopotamian history, if you want to know something, i am at your service :smallsmile: . About Charlemagne i do to myself the same question, but his descendants ruin it in only two generations.. Ludovico Pío (i am sorry, i don´t know how write his name in english) was a weak and a incompetent king and the grandsons of Charlemagne shatter his empire for their personal ambitions and regionalism

I am interested in WW II, recently i do a little research about it for my class of "Contemporary History". And about Napoleonic Wars i am reading the firt series of "Episodios Nacionales" (National Episodes) of Benito Perez Galdós (I am spanish).

[Arioch]

I'm not really old enough to be a "historian", but I think I know more history than most people my age, simply because of my good memory for random useless facts. Even though I'm not carrying on with history as a school subject, it's still an interest, and I'm always ready to learn something other people don't know.

I'm most interested in ancient history (Roman and pre-Roman) and recent history (20th century) - the stuff in the middle is less interesting for me.

That said, does anyone know any good books on the Assyrian empire. I was looking at the Egyptian exhibits in the British Museum a little while ago, went into the Assyrian section, which is big, and realised I knew absolutely nothing about it. I mean, I know quite a bit about ancient Egypt, but ancient Assyria was something I'd never touched upon. I'm especially interested in its mythology and even more so its language - I'd never seen anything like it - they had a language made of arrows.

If anyone can reccommend any good books on this topic that aren't completely impenetrable (as many history books are) I'd be grateful.

[RTGoodman]

Well, I just got my BA in History, so I guess that makes me a historian! :smalltongue:

As I said, my major was History, and my minor Medieval & Renaissance Studies. My favorite topics include Celtic and Scandinavian history and mythology (which is what I'm going to try to study in grad school), medieval historians and historiography (Bede, Gregory of Tours, etc.), Church history, the Crusades, and general Western European medieval history. Basically, I like anything that involves the smashing of heads or cutting off of heads, but not much after gunpowder showed up.

Outside of that, though, I do love studying modern(ish) US history (basically, the end of WWII to the '80s), and especially the Vietnam War era. Basically, if I weren't looking to go to grad school for mythology or medieval something-or-other, I'd be going to Texas Tech to study the Vietnam War (since my professor for my "Vietnam at War" and "US Since 1945" classes went there and it looks pretty amazing for that sort of thing, what with their Virtual Vietnam Archive and whatnot).

I like Roman Empire stuff (and I'm pretty fluent in Latin, like a good medievalist should be), but I don't know that much about it. I did do a seminar on Roman North Africa this past semester and that was cool. I'm slightly interested in naval history, but that's mostly because one of my mentors and like half of my friends in college were with our Maritime Studies MA program and a lot of the games we played in our Historical Gaming Simulations Group were naval based (including Axis & Allies: War at Sea, Brawling Battleships of Steel or something like that, and a game our adviser/professor created). :smalltongue:


For those of you that have degrees in History (and not History Ed), what are you looking at getting into with the degree? I'm just looking for any sort of job now (to pay off student loans) before I head back to grad school, but I'm still trying to figure out what I'd like to really do. I mean, there's teaching, but it seems like I could do something else cool.

[TwoBitWriter]

Arioch, I'm sure that Paladin29 would be able to lecture you a bit on the Assyrians. Heck, I would very much like to see that myself.

Perhaps we could arrange something similar to that. Each of us takes a point that we are particularly knowledgeable in, and post a lecture on the subject. Some interesting points in history, a war, a civilization, and so on.

Someone could cover ancient Rome, someone else could lecture on Mesopotamia, or Germany, or France, or the USA. There are tons of civil wars, the US, Spain, England, and so on. World Wars. I do say that we try to keep things from getting to contemporary, to avoid infractions. I think World War II would be a safe place to stop.

I am seeing a lot of learning potential here. We can share what we know and have learned for the benefit of those who haven't learned and wish to.

[Paladin29]

Arioch: This type of writing is called cunneiform (I hope it writes like that in english, i apologize if not, in spanish is "cuneiforme"). It is a writing developed in the early third millenium B.C. probably in a temple of one of the sumerian cities, the tradition says in the Eanna in Uruk ("House of Heaven" or "House of An", temple of An, lord of the sumerian gods, and Innana, lady of fertility and war, she can be identified with the semite Isthar), initially for administrative and accounting means. About a book about Assyrians, i read spanish authors in the great part (secondary sources, i know.. my mistake), but try with Italian (Pettinato) and german authors (Falkenstein).

rtg: You can try to work for a university or musseum, I think tha in U.S.A. investigation and research is better paid than in europe (or at least in my country). However I´d love teach history.

Edit: It´s a great idea TwoBitWriter!!, count on me (I could get the Mesopotamian history and spanish history) :smallsmile:

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I am currently working my way through the first volume of The Civil War: a Narrative, by Shelby Foote. I'm only on page 124 of the nearly 3000 pages of material, and I don't expect to remember many details. Still, there's something about this war that fascinates me.

On a three-day weekend, my Dad and I too a trip to Gettysburg, as well as a few museums in Washington DC. (This was back when I was in my mid-20's.) The town has been thoroughly converted into a tourist attraction, which is more sad than thrilling. I found myself fascinated by seemingly simple things, like a pockmarked building with a tiny window toward the top. A confederate sniper had been purched there, and the Union soldiers running past had made an effort o fire back. From the scars on the building, you can tell that no one really paused to take aim at the sniper; chips in the brick seem to be as far as 20 feet away from the window.

Then there was the moment Dad and I stood on Little Round Top, where the 22nd Maine defended the left flank of the Union army on July 2, 1863. I pointed in various dierctions, explaining to my father how Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain set his defenses under some of the most dire circumstances, and miraculously saved his side of the dispute from complete ruin. And my Dad looked at me in wonder and asked how I'd come to know all this. My answer was along the lines of, "I became a much better student once I was out of school." :smallsmile:

[RTGoodman]

I am currently working my way through the first volume of The Civil War: a Narrative, by Shelby Foote. I'm only on page 124 of the nearly 3000 pages of material, and I don't expect to remember many details. Still, there's something about this war that fascinates me.

I'm not a big US history buff, but I did take a class on American Military History to 1900, so I know a bit about the Civil War. Foote's book is considered one of the best, but another one that might even be more popular (though I haven't read it, despite owning a copy) is James McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom. I actually got a chance to hear McPherson speak at my university last Fall (on the relationship between Lincoln and McClellan) and, as a Phi Alpha Theta member and usher for the event, got to talk to him and get my (as-yet-unread :smallredface:) copy signed.


I found myself fascinated by seemingly simple things, like a pockmarked building with a tiny window toward the top. A confederate sniper had been purched there, and the Union soldiers running past had made an effort o fire back. From the scars on the building, you can tell that no one really paused to take aim at the sniper; chips in the brick seem to be as far as 20 feet away from the window.

Apparently, that's not as simple a thing as you might think. I know several people, including one of my best friends from college (for the record, he was the only other History/Medieval Studies student there), that went to that same building where the sniper was. I think we even mentioned it in my Am. Military History class.

@TwoBitWriter: The "lecture" thing seems like a great idea, but one thing to be wary of is the forum rule against discussing Religion and Politics. I know that cuneiform or Byzantium or whatever isn't going to be a problem, but I doubt I'd feel comfortable talking about either of my Senior Seminar term paper topics from this last semester (one on St. Augustine as a philosophical descendant of pagan religion, and one on the music of the Vietnam era and its relationship to the politics of the time). It's a good idea, but people just need to be careful about topics if they do it.

[TwoBitWriter]

Honestly, rtg, that was a big concern of mine.

I think that if we stick to whats almost universally accepted, don't go into recent or new theories, we should be okay. Maybe we could consult with a moderator before posting a lecture to double-check. I have been re-reading the forum rules to make sure that we don't violate anything.

Thats why I think we shouldn't go for anything more recent than World War II (maybe Vietnam if you stay rather broad.)

And I think thats they key, sticking to relatively broad topics and universally-accepted facts. I think that would cover us. Also, since the thread itself is specifically geared for historial interests with the intent to share and educate, I think that will help as well.

But yes, I do think we need to be careful to avoid contemporary issues, or issues within the last generation or two that have a larger impact today.

[Vampiric]

TBW: I think that the title is pretty good for the group name = HitP.

oh, and I also like anything about Mesopotamia, Scandinavia and almost anything Celtic. Though I don't know much about any of them, I'm really interested in learning about them :smallsmile:.

I'm also up for the lecture style stuff - not sure what I could contribute, though...

[Paladin29]

I agree, but remember that religion issues, specially abrahamic ones (Jewish (wich at least have 3200 years), christian (2000 years) and muslim (1386 years if i am not mistake about the time of the hegira)) are dangerous items, we must attach to the facts in these topics.

[Mercenary Pen]

I've only been able to really study history as far as A-level. I have, however, had the misfortune of continually going over the same periods time and again.

This means, I can tell you a little about the Romans, Tudors and Stuarts and the industrial revolution into the victorian era (plus one or two other minor areas). But my main areas of study have been early C20th Germany, Russia and England (and a little bit on the Easter Rising in Ireland).

Beyond that, I've had the Sharpe novels (and others by the same author) and the Cadfael novels, and various programs by Tony Robinson to broaden my knowledge of history- as well as the Barbarians series by Terry Jones.

Beyond that, I'll readily profess my ignorance.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Umm, hi. Curly here, I've got a GCSE in Modern World History - specifically focusing on the Somme and Haig, the British Front (WWI), Germany inter-war period, America in the Depression and WOmen's Suffrage.
I've got (soon) an AS in Mediaeval History (and doing the A2 obviously) and know England from 1450 to pretty much the end of Henry VIIIs reign. For the A2 I'll be covering Edward, Mary and Elizabeth as well as the first Four Crusades.
I've got a more than passing interest in history up to very literally 1914. I don't care for post - 1914.
I can give a pretty fair run down of English History; some of the Roman Empire; Egypt; Ancient Greece and a lot of ancient civilisations. I'd love to know more about Mesopotamia (although I know a lot about the origin of math in Mesopotamia thanks to some special college course I took in Y9); SUmeria and the cultures around there.
Oh, and I can do a very good history of languages if anyone's interested. Main speciality: English Language and French Language.

And I'm very seriously considering taking Mediaeval History in Uni.
These mini-lectures sound extremely interesting though. However; we'd need to add a bibliography just in case. Or at least notes for good websites.

EDIT:
@^: I saw Terry Jones' Barabarians series too. And read the Cadfael books. I also recommend reading the books by C. J. Sansom as all the stuff which isn't the main plot is based very much in history.

[Castaras]

Doing history GCSE, and not liking it.

I much prefer history pre-medieval. Romans and such. Don't like the 1900s, which is what we're focusing on. And even doing the boring stuff inbetween the world wars. -_-

I like history though. The older stuff though. The stuff with swords and shields and roman emporers and norman invaders and celtic warriors and egyptian pharoahs and and and and you get the picture.

<.<

[Exachix]

I don't have any sort of history qualification.

But I like History. I'm mostly fond of the ancient history, and the Castly history, and medieval stuff. Not really modern history.

Sort of Like Cas.

[Zombie pixe]

GCSE History sutdent here too!

Hmmmm, apart from the 4 major topics we coverd (Cold War, WW1, Deppresion and the new deal [america 1929-39] and the New Frontier [america 1946-72]. I Enjoy gerogian history, and Middle age history. So basicly the reign of Edward Longshanks and the French Revolution.

Squid Bones Exist Curly!

[CurlyKitGirl]

Oh yeah; Celtic history too.

@Cassie: It's a crying shame GCSE History tends to focus (without exception) on the wars.

Ancient and Mediaeval history rock.

[TwoBitWriter]

As I said, you don't have to be an expert. This is a place for experts, scholars, hobbyists, and laymen alike.

There are a lot of people expressing interest in Mesopotamia, Paladin. I think you just may your work cut out for you! I guess its a good thing that you have always wanted to teach! :smallsmile:

Historians in the Playground... it does have a nice ring to it!
Anyone willing to design a banner? I don't have the artistic chops, but hopefully someone will.

[Gaelbert]

I love history. Especially WW 2 onwards. I have literally been reading about WW II since I learned to read (12 years or so), and I try to do all my projects and reports on WW II. It's gotten so that I can write an essay on Patton off the top of my head, granted, not a particularly specific or even good one, but still.
However, I know a good deal about the American Civil War, and I've been to several reenactments, I've been to Gettysburg and hiked through pretty much the entire place (I actually got e. coli on a 9 mile hike there), and I've been to Antietam and explored it thoroughly as well.
I'm in my second year of high school, and my formal education about history has been terrible so far, so not much to say about that. I have some knowledge of the Greeks and Romans, but I mainly stick with modern history.
I'm also interested in various politics and ideologies, but those aren't really suitable for board discussion I don't believe.

[Paladin29]

I see it TBW :smallsmile:, now i´m reading a book about the Epic of Gilgamesh, id anyone is interested...

I see that there is much interest in WW II, i like world war history, but i focused myself more in its causes and the rise of the NSDAP in the Weimar Republic..

[Em Blackleaf]

I know a lot about Ulysses S. Grant.
To the point where I could tell you what age he was when he bought his first horse. :smalltongue:
I did my Civil war report on him, and I used his autobiography as my main source. And, while it was a group project, I (voluntarily) typed the written part of the report. So, I remember a lot of stuff from it.

I also like learning about Greek and Roman history, medieval stuff, and the early colonization of America.

I think I like history because I'm good at remembering details.

[Hoggy]

The only area of history I consider myself to know enough about to be called knowledgeable in would be the Later Han/Three Kingdoms era of China, about 180-280 A.D. fascinating stuff, really. I know a reasonable amount about Ancient Greece, which I also love. From then on, it's bits and bobs, perhaps knowing a little more than the common man on Sengouku Japan and the Qin era of Chinese history (about 200 B.C.).

[Paladin29]

I am a truly ignorant of Chinesse history, I would be very grateful if you instruct me about that :smallsmile:

[Hoggy]

On which era? RoTK? I could tell you everything I know, but it'd take... years. If you've any specific questions I can possibly answer I'd be glad to do so, or if you want more general knowledge, I can dig up some very useful links (mainly that DeCrespingy chap).

[Paladin29]

Despite I know that there is emperors in China since the fourth or third (i never remember) century B.C., some people tell to me that there is no a true united China until after the Three Kingdoms era... it makes sense to me because some countries need a civil war to supress the regional differences becoming one cultural element in the hegemonic one.

[Vampiric]

Yeah, that's kinda true. Except the Three Kings (Three Sovereigns) time is mythological - though has been attributed to around 2852 BC to 2205 BC. I think you mean the seven regions ruled by different guys before the Warring States Period (when Sun Tzu wrote Art of War), and the state of Qin eventually took all the other states over.

[TwoBitWriter]

Didn't the Manchurians eventually conquer China at some point?
I seem to recall a Manchu dynasty or something to that effect.
Beyond the Han, Shu, Wei, Wu, Jin, and Ming, I know little of the rulers of China.

Does anyone know of various African kingdoms. I know about the Mali Empire and that it was a big deal for a long time (and extremely wealthy in gold) and know a little of the Zulu, and of course Egypt. Does anyone have any sort of knowledge of that?

[CurlyKitGirl]

*raises hand*
Egypt here. I can probably tell you about the origins of it, a fair bit of Ramses II, the building of the pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. I can talk about the pharoah who created a new religion under one god and created a new city away from Thebes as well as the Ptolemiac dynasty.

Oh, I can also do a wee bit on the Nubian Empire and a fair bit about the Carthaginian one.
ALso, if anyone's interested the history surrounding the Iliad and Aenaid.

ANd wasn't Manchuria during the 1930s what with Japan invading China and all?

[Paladin29]

Except Egypt, Carthage and the african provinces of Roman Empire, I can´t help you :smallfrown:

[Dragonrider]

Curly just told me to get over here. Hi! How can I contribute to your discussion today? :smallsmile:

(/kidding)

Seriously, I love history. American, European, Asian, whatever, if I can read about it I'm happy. Most recently I have done a lot of reading on a) the Black Death and b) the American Civil War. Also Greek mythology, which sort of falls into the historical category.

And when I go to college next year, I will probably major in history, and/or linguistics, or if I'm feeling ambitious, double-major in both...that would be pretty awesome. :smallbiggrin:


Edit: I just realized something...when people start talking about something I'm really passionate about, I get all possessive over it: "Hey! That era's my specialty! What are you doing knowing so much about it too?" Then, of course, common sense reasserts itself and I just get really excited because there's someone I can talk to sensibly about it.

[CurlyKitGirl]

NO idea what a double - major is, but do it anyway. 'Cause you're awesome and can. And should.

[GenLee]

@TwoBitWriter: The nickname came first, my parents started calling me Lee when I was small. The history came later. At about age 7, I was pleased to hear about a famous general named Lee! Then I found out he fought for the bad guys. :smallannoyed: I've since found a US Navy Admiral W.A. "Ching" Lee whom I admire more, but most people would recognize a Gen.Lee handle.
Since then, I've not developed into an R.E. Lee fan, I think he had tremendous luck with opponents and subordinates, as a key element of his fame.

In Poland's Golden Age, they were a huge country, with a functioning republic (not a democracy, or a democratic republic, but an aristocratic one). Things broke down (obviously), and they have had rotten luck ever since. There's some great quote about having the Germans for neighbors, but I've forgotten it now.

I forgot an era or two:
- I'm also a fan of the Victorian era British Empire, and to a lesser extent, the French. This is also from an RPG, good ol' Space:1889!
- From reading Colleen McCullough's "First man in Rome" series and watchin "I, Claudius," I like to look in on the late Republic/early Empire on occasion. These got my wife hooked on this period, too.
- I read a lot of Vietnam War from time to time, mostly when I was in high school in the '80s, trying to figure out how to beat an insurgency.

@CurlyKitGirl: IIRC, the Manchu Dynasty fell in China in the 1911 Revolution (the move "The Last Emperor" covers the surviving last heir, Henry Pu-yi). Manchuria the province was taken over by the Japanese in 1931, they grabbed this heir and put him on a puppet throne ("Manchukuo"). From there, the Japanese invaded the rest of China in '37.

[Dragonrider]

Robert E. Lee was a pretty noble guy, though. The only reason he sided with the south was state loyalty - yes, it was the wrong side, but in some ways I understand his motivations (even if I don't agree with them).

@Curly: I don't know how it works there, but in the U.S. we call your focus at university your "major" and you can major in two things at once if you're that kind of a person. I, being that kind of a person (and also indecisive sometimes!) might choose to double-major if the school I go to offers both history and linguistics. If there's a college I really, really like that doesn't have enough of a linguistics program for a proper major, I'll go there anyway and just major in history (but take whatever linguistics classes they might offer).

[GenLee]

Robert E. Lee was a pretty noble guy, though. The only reason he sided with the south was state loyalty - yes, it was the wrong side, but in some ways I understand his motivations (even if I don't agree with them).

I disagree on "noble," and "loyalty," but hey, that's the way of the world.


in the U.S. we call your focus at university your "major" and you can major in two things at once if you're that kind of a person.

Or you can double-major, by taking classes in two subjects that link. And if you're REALLY insane, like a friend of mine, you can take two majors, with one of them being a double major! He majored in Philosophy and Psychology-Chemistry. Which meant he thought about thinking, and how one thinks, and what happens when one thinks, and what all that thinking meant. I think it took him 6+ years to graduate?

I have a major in military history, and a minor in National Security Policy Studies, with some Russian language thrown in. I obviously hoped to get work in the CIA or NSA or Defense Department. I graduated... one month after the Berlin Wall came down...

Wait for it....

D'Oh!

Shoulda taken up Arabic or Mandarin.

[RTGoodman]

The history came later. At about age 7, I was pleased to hear about a famous general named Lee! Then I found out he fought for the bad guys. :smallannoyed:

You better not come to the South talkin' like that. That's liable to get you in trouble 'round these parts. :smalltongue: I don't really know too much about the Civil War (that was when I did worst in my US Military History class, but that could be because of the focus on naval aspects I didn't bothering studying), but I kinda like Lee if only for the romanticized mythology around him (and many of the other Confederates). Also, I'd love to have one of those cool old-school Virginia accents a-la "Gone With the Wind." :smallwink:

@DragonRider: You don't really have to double-major in college to get a good sampling of foreign languages and linguistics. I majored in History with a minor in Medieval Studies and still managed to take 5 semesters of Latin (I only missed out on Latin 3002, the sixth semester and last undergraduate Latin routinely offered), two semesters of German, and several classes that dabbled in linguistics and languages - we talked a bit about Old English and had to memorize Chaucer in Middle English for Medieval Lit, did a little Spanish in my Medieval Spanish Culture and Don Quixote classes, and learned about Proto-Indo-European, Latin, Greek, and Semetic linguistics in my Roman North Africa class. The option to double-major is there, but depending on what your school of choice offers, you can probably get all you want in as a minor or even just through electives. Also, most History programs in the country make you take at least 4 semesters of a foreign language to get your degree, so you'll have that at minimum.

Regarding Terry Jones - if you can find a copy of his Medieval Lives, it's a pretty interesting read. I managed to get a copy cheap at B&N and then lucked out when my friend Steve went to the International Congress on Medieval Studies (in Kalamazoo) and he actually got Jones to autograph it for me!

[TwoBitWriter]

Well, after the Civil War, there was this phenomenon with the Romanticism of the so-called Southern "Lost Cause." Much of the mythology built upon the Confederate generals still holds today, particularly Robert E. Lee who has practically been canonized in American lore. There is usually such an aura that develops upon the loser of a conflict, particularly conflicts born out of ideals. Many may scoff, but there are plenty of people in this country who do take the issue very seriously.
It is certainly not something that can be lumped into good or bad or black and white. But that topic could easily degenerate and get this forum locked, so I request that personal opinions such as what is good or bad be left out.

Anyhow, does anyone have any other questions? Or should we start figuring out a way to organize things...

For the lectures, I was picturing maybe a lecture thread being created around the sole topic, the main thread being created by the person who is covering it. This could be followed by something of a Q&A section afterward where people can voice their curiosities.

We could set up a schedule, and set Q&A to last for three days after the original post. That should cover most relevant questions yet keep the subject matter moving along. If a consensus is reached, a topic can be revisited. This thread itself (and hopefully, its sequels) can act as a sort of OOC and Recruitment thread.

All in all, to avoid potentially offending anyone, opinions must be kept to a minimum. Topics should try to stay as close to the well-established facts as possible without venturing into theoretical territory. Religious matters are a very dangerous ground as well, only approach them when you must (Conversion of Rome to Christianity, the growth of Islam in the Arab and African world, etc.) It is probably a good idea to completely leave religious figures and prophets alone as well.
When venturing closer to contemporary history, such as within the last fifty years or so, one must be especially careful. We don't want to cause trouble in the Historians in the Playground pursuit to share the love and knowledge of the past.

If others are serious about this, it may be a good idea to write up a set of rules for the HitP, akin to the last paragraph.

Is there anything else I may have missed? Does anyone wish to be apart of HitP? I really like the idea of making a join-able group. Banners, 'sig entries, and everything.

[Catskin]

ANd wasn't Manchuria during the 1930s what with Japan invading China and all?

I used to be big into modern Chinese history. School kind of burned me out on it though. The simplified textbook story follows. The people that ruled China during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) were Manchus. They were an ethnic minority. The last emperor in China's long history was Manchurian. In 1911 China became a republic. Then, yeah, in 1931 Japan set up a country called Manchuria with the old emperor of China as its ruler. But it didn't last through the war (basically WWII).

I'd definitely be interested in lecture type things on history (as a student, not lecturer).

[BardicDuelist]

Recently I've been doing research on the late Hunnic peoples (from just before Atilla until his death). I find the sparse records of how their society functioned and even the ethnic oragins fascinating.

[TwoBitWriter]

@BardicDuelist,
Would you care to share what you know? We can set up a lecture thread for you, where you can give a general talk about the subject, recommend some reading material for those interested in learning more, and answer some more specific questions someone may have.

[RTGoodman]

One thing I might suggest is just to create one Historians in the Playground Lecture Thread, and then I believe whoever created the thread can edit the thread title to change the subject and lecturer whenever it changes. That way we don't have to fill up the subforum with a different lecture every three days or every week or whatever, and people can just look through the rest of thread and see old topics.

[Paladin29]

Well, after the Civil War, there was this phenomenon with the Romanticism of the so-called Southern "Lost Cause." Much of the mythology built upon the Confederate generals still holds today, particularly Robert E. Lee who has practically been canonized in American lore. There is usually such an aura that develops upon the loser of a conflict, particularly conflicts born out of ideals. Many may scoff, but there are plenty of people in this country who do take the issue very seriously.
It is certainly not something that can be lumped into good or bad or black and white. But that topic could easily degenerate and get this forum locked, so I request that personal opinions such as what is good or bad be left out.

I don´t know much about American Civil War, but it´s dangerous to call one side of a civil war "bad guys", no matter if they were the losers or the winners, usually there are bad guys and good guys in both sides. Here in Spain we have very serious problems yet because politicians twist the history of our civil war (1936-1939) for their interest, and don´t let the historians make their job. I agree with TBW, try to don´t give personal opinions, only facts or well developed theories.



Anyhow, does anyone have any other questions? Or should we start figuring out a way to organize things...

For the lectures, I was picturing maybe a lecture thread being created around the sole topic, the main thread being created by the person who is covering it. This could be followed by something of a Q&A section afterward where people can voice their curiosities.

We could set up a schedule, and set Q&A to last for three days after the original post. That should cover most relevant questions yet keep the subject matter moving along. If a consensus is reached, a topic can be revisited. This thread itself (and hopefully, its sequels) can act as a sort of OOC and Recruitment thread.

The problem is that we can create too thread traffic and the mods would scold us. I recomend that there are only two lecture threads active at the same time.


All in all, to avoid potentially offending anyone, opinions must be kept to a minimum. Topics should try to stay as close to the well-established facts as possible without venturing into theoretical territory. Religious matters are a very dangerous ground as well, only approach them when you must (Conversion of Rome to Christianity, the growth of Islam in the Arab and African world, etc.) It is probably a good idea to completely religious figures and prophets alone as well.
When venturing closer to contemporary history, such as within the last fifty years or so, one must be especially careful. We don't want to cause trouble in the Historians in the Playground pursuit to share the love and knowledge of the past.

If others are serious about this, it may be a good idea to write up a set of rules for the HitP, akin to the last paragraph.

Is there anything else I may have missed? Does anyone wish to be apart of HitP? I really like the idea of making a join-able group. Banners, 'sig entries, and everything.

I agree with TBW in all.:smallsmile:

[Ishmael]

Hey,

I'm majoring in History, and plan to concentrate specifically on (Early?) Modern European History, though recently I've become really interested in both the Renaissance and the Unification of Italy. I have a bunch of interests pulling me in different directions, really. The philosophy of history, really, is ultra-intriguing to me--historiography, the objectivity of history, the purpose of it, its inductive/deductive use of primary sources, etc.

One day, I want to get a PhD in History and become a Professor.

[dish]

Chinese history, in a nutshell:

The Empire for long divided must unite,
The Empire for long united must divide.

(Don't kill me Hoggy! :smalleek: Though I'm sure you know where I paraphrased that from.)

A slight clarification about the Japanese invasion of China.
As already noted, the last dynasty of Chinese emperors - known as the 'Qing' - were Manchus and came from Manchuria (northern China).
The 12th Qing emperor (Puyi) was deposed by the 1911 revolution lead by Dr Sun Yat Sen.
In 1931 the Japanese invaded northern China (Manchuria), renamed it 'Manchuko' and set Puyi up as the puppet emperor.
Having consolidated their hold on the north, the Japanese began their invasion of the larger portion of China in 1937. Thus, in China WWII officially began in 1937. That's caught me out a few times.

[Vampiric]

NO idea what a double - major is, but do it anyway. 'Cause you're awesome and can. And should.

I believe it's the equivalent of our Joint Honours at Uni, CKG.

@TBW: I'm definitely up for putting a HitP banner and sig in my sig :smallsmile:

[BugFix]

Robert E. Lee was a pretty noble guy, though. The only reason he sided with the south was state loyalty - yes, it was the wrong side, but in some ways I understand his motivations

This is oversimplified. Sure, Lee was "noble" by most definitions, but then so was pretty much everyone in the general staff of both armies. He also personally held slaves, and made an affirmative decision to support a secession that he knew a priori would cause a terrible war. No one's a boy scout in this story, and Lee has as much to answer for as anyone.

And conversely, be very careful of throwing "wrong side" around. Wars in the real world don't have clean "good" and "bad" distinctions. Lots of folks in the confederacy felt, for reasons having nothing to do with slavery, that the secession was justified; and lots of folks in the union had the opportunity to choose a different path to freedom than war.

History sucks, basically. But we're stuck with the one we have.

[Serpentine]

I'm doing a double Arts and Science degree, most of my Arts (which I've now finished) being History and Ancient History followed by Ancient Literature. A quick run-down of what I've covered, in units and/or general field:
Greece and Rome.
Byzantium.
Traditional China and Japan.
Medieval Europe.
Early Modern Europe.
Vikings (awesome).
Social history of early modern England.
Greek and Roman erotic poetry and epic.
Some South America (something I'd really like to know more about).
Archaeology.
The Origins of Modern Warfare (aka. Great Greek and Roman Battles, and Why Their Macho Attitudes Has Us All Boned).

I'm pretty terrible at remembering details, facts, names, etc., but damn if I'm not good at finding out anything you want to know.
On lecturing... I don't know how confident I'd be actually lecturing on something, but I've got a couple of assignments I'd be okay with posting... (my most recent I liked was on whether ancient Romans had a concept of childhood. Got 90% for it :smallwink:).

[TwoBitWriter]

I agree with what has been said. We don't want to constantly create new threads and annoy the other fine people on these forums. I think we could get away with one thread at a time for lectures right now, as there aren't too many people interested at the moment.

What I'm going to do is compile a list of people willing to conduct a lecture and Q&A. Please post if you are willing to do so and the subject on which you will discuss. If someone has already posted on a topic, please try something else. However, when it comes to broad topics (Ancient Rome, China, the World Wars, etc) please try to limit your topic to something slightly more specific (The Three Kingdom Era of China, The Fall of Rome, the Fall of Byzantium, von Moltke's tactics during the Prussian-Austrian war, and so on.) That way a single topic can be returned to multiple times.

I, myself, know quite a lot of German history and am willing to conduct a lecture on such. Lecturers will take turns, and will take as much time as they need to properly write a brief entry for their lecture. Try to include a list of sources that can be accessed for those wishing to learn more. This isn't a term paper, but do not plagiarize, that is always a serious no-no. If you are just talking about general-knowledge type things, you probably don't need too many sources as this is nothing official. But the more related information we can have, the merrier.

Remember, avoid personal opinions (no good or bad guy distinctions) and debate is discouraged in the lecture thread. Q&A can be used to address perceived inconsistencies in the lecture post, but please remember to continue following the rules of these forums.
The ultimate goal of the HitP is to encourage the sharing of knowledge and the love of history and to provide a place for those who wish to learn, can. We are not here to debate if someone or if some event was right or wrong, but only what happened and how certain events played out.

Lecture List


1) TwoBitWriter - German History from Classical to Modern
2) Paladin29 - Ancient Mesopotamian Culture
3) CurlyKitGirl - Late Medieval/Early Rennaissance English History, the Reign of Caeser Augustus

[CurlyKitGirl]

I'm doing a double Arts and Science degree, most of my Arts (which I've now finished) being History and Ancient History followed by Ancient Literature. A quick run-down of what I've covered, in units and/or general field:
Greece and Rome.
Byzantium.
Traditional China and Japan.
Medieval Europe.
Early Modern Europe.
Vikings (awesome).
Social history of early modern England.
Greek and Roman erotic poetry and epic.
Some South America (something I'd really like to know more about).
Archaeology.
The Origins of Modern Warfare (aka. Great Greek and Roman Battles, and Why Their Macho Attitudes Has Us All Boned).

I'm pretty terrible at remembering details, facts, names, etc., but damn if I'm not good at finding out anything you want to know.
On lecturing... I don't know how confident I'd be actually lecturing on something, but I've got a couple of assignments I'd be okay with posting... (my most recent I liked was on whether ancient Romans had a concept of childhood. Got 90% for it :smallwink:).

WANT!
Now sign up for giving lectures/posting essay or I shall cry. And whenever people see your posts they'll think 'You made Curly cry. You horrible horrible person.'
[/blackmail]
But those're amazing topics.

You can sign me up for giving lectures if you want. My speciality is England from 1450 - 1540 at the moment. As I said I can also talk about Augustus' reign and some other stuff.
For the lectures: should it be chronological in progression or Most Wanted at the time?

[LCR]

I've always found the Weimar Republic and the interwar period to be especially interesting. I'm also quite fond of everything ancient (like, Roman empire, Greek city-states, Carthago).
I've never gotten beyond A-levels in history, though.

[I'm da Rogue!]

I guess I can help with ancient Greece, classical times, byzantium and modern greek history.

[Ethrael]

I'm really interested in Ancient History, bordering on Anthropology, mostly Norse, Celtic and Viking cultures, but none of that is in any History course available to me, so instead I have fun on wikipedia. :smalltongue:

Oh but I do know a little Ancient Greek history which was compulsory at my old school. (It was a half-greek school and it was all about how great the Greeks were, how brave the greeks were...)

[Serpentine]

WANT!
Now sign up for giving lectures/posting essay or I shall cry. And whenever people see your posts they'll think 'You made Curly cry. You horrible horrible person.'
[/blackmail]
But those're amazing topics.Awww. With a plea like that, how can I say no :smallredface: What would you like it on? And would an assignment suffice, at least in the short-term? Too bad I can't post slide shows, or I'd do the one on Roman gods in which I said Margaret Thatcher had the face of a jackal...
A quick look in my uni folder comes up with assignments on the following:
Roman male sexuality.
Roman childhood.
Chinese Feudalism.
Chinese and Japanese women.
Aristotle
Plato
Odyssey
Tibullus
Ovid
Aeneas
Jason (think I did particularly well in that one)
Julius Caesar
Pharaohs.
Egyptian pyramids (enjoyed that one)
Barbarians vs. Romans
Perikles
Roman gods
Greek magic
Popular recreations in England
Superstition in England


Hmm... I seem to be missing a fair few from my computer... For example, where's all the Viking ones? :smallconfused: Ah well, they're around. At the very least, I have the hard copies.

My Arts credentials, if'n it please m'lords an' m'ladies :smallwink:
(P: Pass, C: Credit, D: Distinction, HD: High Distinction
Unit Code Unit Name Grade
ALIT111 Myth and Ancient Greek Literature C
ARPA104 Archaeology: Studying the Human Past D
ANCH111 Introduction to Roman History: The Punic Wars to the Death of Caesar D
HIST112 Early Modern Europe HD
WGCO389 Celluloid Heroes: Men, Movies and Social Change C
HIST304 The Age of the Vikings D
ALIT322 Greek and Roman Erotic Poetry D
ANCH351 The Origins of Western Warfare D
HIST111 Medieval Europe D
ANCH324 Egypt in the Age of the Pyramids C
HIST305 Byzantine History AD 330-1025 D
ALIT321 Greek and Roman Epic D
HIST319 Custom and Community: Popular Culture in Britain c.1650-c.1850 D
HIST388 The Pagan Religions of Ancient Greece and Rome D
ANCH314 Citizens and Society in Ancient Rome ** **
HIST141 Traditional China and Japan ** **

[Arioch]

I know some stuff about the Tudor era (which I hate as a subject, but we did so often in school it's sorta burned in), the British civil war (and to a lesser extent the French) and the first few crusades.

I think I know a decent amount about the Warring States period and the Qin dynasty up until the death of the Qin Shi Huangdi (which admittedly only amounts to about 20 years, but those 20 years are some of the most important in Chinese history). The British Museum exhibit on the First Emperor and the books I got along with it have been very informative.

Plus, the subjects I studied for GCSE. In no particular order: Britain before and during WW1; the origins of WW1; the Flanders campaign; the Treaty of Versailles and related treaties; USA between the wars, inc. the New Deal; Germany between the wars, inc. the rise of Hitler; the League of Nations and the Collapse of World peace.

Plus various bits and bobs of information that just sort of linger for use when out-trivia-ing other people.

It's not really history, but I also know a lot about ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian and Norse mythology.

[Vampiric]

Oooo... I know a tad about Norse Mythology, and any info on the Norse in general is greatly appreciated :smallsmile:

I can possibly do a bit, or collaberate, on a WWII thingy, or the inter-war period. Also, I could do something on Russia, though that would mainly be Post-war communism and the culture therein.

Erm... philosophical history, too, including a discussion on the actual philosophy, if anyone is interested in discussing it or having a 'lecture' on it?

Also, a general history of Martial Arts, though mostly it'll be rooted in the spread of Gung Fu from China to other countries, even though most people agree that not long after Gung Fu was invented, other countries began to develop their own Martial Arts.

[Ascension]

I have a bit of an unhealthy obsession with lost causes and underdogs, particularly when it seems to me that the losing side had better leaders and the victors won only due to strength in numbers or technology. I can wax eloquent about the Second Punic War and the American Civil War, and consider Hannibal and General Lee personal heroes.

Also, if you want to get recent, my parents have told me enough about the seventies I sometimes feel like I lived it. :smallbiggrin:

I don't want to start a big argument or anything, but really, the main issue of the Civil War was States' Rights. The Union supported a strong central government with weak state governments, while the Confederacy supported a loose union of strong state governments. Everything else was a secondary concern. Also, anyone who affirms the principles of the Declaration of Independence should theoretically have supported the South's secession, whether or not they supported their politics or principles. A peaceful withdrawal would theoretically have been possible.

EDIT: @Vampiric: I'm a bit of a amateur philosopher myself, though I admit most of my reading has A.) been by John Stuart Mill, B.) been by an anarchist, or C.) been by a communist, so I've got a bit of a skewed look at things. Maybe there should be a separate "Philosophers in the Playground" thread?

[Arioch]

Oooo... I know a tad about Norse Mythology, and any info on the Norse in general is greatly appreciated :smallsmile:

The Norse had one of the wierdest mythologies I've ever encountered. I mean, most are fairly nonsensical, but the Norse one just takes the cake. Half the stories rely on Loki being less sexually disciminate than Captain Jack Harkness. I suppose as a god of fire and chaos it's to be expected, but still. Fenrir, the wolf that eats the sun to herald Ragnarok? Loki's son. Jörmungandr, the world serpent, who's wrapped around Yggdrasil and torments Loki in his prison by dripping venom on his face? Also Loki's son. Hel, half-human, half-corpse goddess of death? Loki's daughter.

Anyway, I'd like to request info on Mesopotamia and pre-Republican Rome.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Me = bolded.



Roman male sexuality. Ooh
Roman childhood. Oooh.
Chinese Feudalism. Extremely want.
Chinese and Japanese women. Extremely want.
Aristotle Extremely really really want.
Plato Extremely really really want.
Odyssey See above.
Tibullus Who? Interest peaked.
Ovid Ooh.
Aeneas Extremely really really want. Especially as I'm doing that this year in college.
Jason (think I did particularly well in that one) As in the Argonauts? Oooh.
Julius Caesar Extremely want.
Pharaohs. Extremely really really really want.
Egyptian pyramids (enjoyed that one) D: Want so much it may make a star implode.
Barbarians vs. Romans Extremely really really want.
Perikles
Roman gods Want so much it may make a star implode.
Greek magic See above.
Popular recreations in England Ooh.
Superstition in England Ooh.


Hmm... I seem to be missing a fair few from my computer... For example, where's all the Viking ones? :smallconfused: Ah well, they're around. At the very least, I have the hard copies.

My Arts credentials, if'n it please m'lords an' m'ladies :smallwink:
(P: Pass, C: Credit, D: Distinction, HD: High Distinction
Unit Code Unit Name Grade
ALIT111 Myth and Ancient Greek Literature C Extremely really really want.
ARPA104 Archaeology: Studying the Human Past D See above.
ANCH111 Introduction to Roman History: The Punic Wars to the Death of Caesar D See above.
HIST112 Early Modern Europe HD [Extremely really want
WGCO389 Celluloid Heroes: Men, Movies and Social Change C Buh?
HIST304 The Age of the Vikings D Ever so extremely want.
ALIT322 Greek and Roman Erotic Poetry D Want.
ANCH351 The Origins of Western Warfare D Ooooh.
HIST111 Medieval Europe D Extremely really want
ANCH324 Egypt in the Age of the Pyramids C Want so much a star imploded
HIST305 Byzantine History AD 330-1025 D Want so much a star imploded
ALIT321 Greek and Roman Epic D Star imploded
HIST319 Custom and Community: Popular Culture in Britain c.1650-c.1850 D
HIST388 The Pagan Religions of Ancient Greece and Rome D Implosion of star
ANCH314 Citizens and Society in Ancient Rome ** ** Really want
HIST141 Traditional China and Japan ** ** Implosion of star

Wow. I'm wishing I could take the course you did. Except the Science! stuff.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I don´t know much about American Civil War, but it´s dangerous to call one side of a civil war "bad guys", no matter if they were the losers or the winners, usually there are bad guys and good guys in both sides. Here in Spain we have very serious problems yet because politicians twist the history of our civil war (1936-1939) for their interest, and don´t let the historians make their job. I agree with TBW, try to don´t give personal opinions, only facts or well developed theories.

I must say, you are quite correct when it comes to declaring who are the heroes and villains, specifically during the American Civil War. In point of fact, the South didn't see it as a civil war at all, but the Second American Revolution. And they weren't alone in this view, as Abraham Lincoln also saw it as such (as per Mr. Foote's writing.) To this day, there are folks in the deep South who hold a grudge against the North.

The most common difficulty in many such instances is that "history is written by the victors." These books that I'm reading right now are as close to a neutral view as one can get. That is, Shelby Foote shows the perspective of BOTH sides of the war.

For example, Jefferson Davis was initially seen as almost royalty when he was elected President of the South. The people could see and hear nobility in his presence, and deemed him the very best choice they could make for a leader. But as the strain of war began, their perspective changed, and they started to see him as more of a petulant, angst-filled man that would bury friends and opponents alike while he held power. (Mind you, There's a lot that happens per page of these books, and I've only made it to page 130 at this time.)

On the other side of the line, Abe Lincoln was viewed as some kind of bizarre aberration of politics. He was a powerful speaker, but his physical appearance had people making various simian references. And for those who don't/didn't play close attention to history, he waged war without Congressional consent and suspended habeus corpus (which was the right to be set free if unlawfully imprisoned). These things, according to the American Constitution, were crimes! That phrase, however..."history is written by the victors"...often tends to find such things overlooked in the classrooms.

And as long as I'm lecturing, the greatest misconception about this particular war is that it was all about slavery. Wow, did I learn differently when I grew up! Slavery was only an underlying issue of the war. The true initial cause was about States' Rights, and slavery at that time was one of the things they argued. "If we want slaves, we should be allowed slaves." Alternatively, they also said, "If we don't like the man chosen to lead the country, we should be permitted to leave the Union." When the Confederate States formed a new Union, their opening battle cry was, "Please, just leave us alone." That changed within months as the "90-day war" concept many people had in their minds became a realization that this would take much longer to resolve.

And to the world, the United States was viewed as a grand political experiment. The States were seen as tiny countries that had come together under one flag. Could they survive as such? Just over 80 years after its formation, Europe looked across the sea and said, "So ends the great experiment."

What appeared to be the end of an experiment, however, was more like a secondary test of the initial experiment. Could and would the results be the same? And as a side-test, could secession be a possibility?

Unbeknownst to many, secession was tested again in 1988 in New York, when Staten Island contemplated seceding from New York City.

*sigh* I must end here, as I am growing perilously close to discussing current politics. I think it important to make it clear, specifically in this thread, where it's safe to discuss such things. Fascinating as history is, it walks a fine line along the "real world politics" rule of these forums. Might I suggest we have a mod drop in and define how near or far we should get to that line? We don't want to get ourselves in trouble for discussing a past that affects our present. :smallsmile:

[BugFix]

I don't want to start a big argument or anything, but really, the main issue of the Civil War was States' Rights.

No. This, too, is grossly oversimplified. Huge chunks of the union voting base and legislatures felt that entering a war to preserve the union was justified for abolition alone. And a whole lot of the "states rights" argument was more about maintaining and supporting an existing economy based on slave labor than it was a principled argument of constitutional law.

Be very, very wary when anyone tries to tell you "the REAL reason" for some piece of history. They're 100% guaranteed to be wrong. The real world is much more complicated.

[Vikingkingq]

I'm a PhD student in the history of U.S public policy, but I'm well versed in U.S history 18th-20th century, and fairly well versed in European history.

[InaVegt]

And to the world, the United States was viewed as a grand political experiment. The States were seen as tiny countries that had come together under one flag. Could they survive as such? Just over 80 years after its formation, Europe looked across the sea and said, "So ends the great experiment."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US was not the first union of countries.

The first I am aware of (and there might be earlier) was The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (or Dutch Republic), founded on July 26th, 1581. Our war of independence was slightly longer than yours (Called the 80 year war in the NL, and the Dutch Revolt pretty much everywhere else), while the Netherlands currently are no longer the Federation they once where, they did sustain this until January 19, 1795 (This is when we became the Batavian Republic, under French rule, after the French left, we became a (united) kingdom)

While it is not widely accepted, there is strong evidence that the Dutch Republic was a huge influence on the founding fathers, and the general layout of the US governmental structure.

I have read both the Act of Abjuration (AKA, the Dutch declaration of independence) and the Declaration of Independence, and the similarities are remarkable. They both start out with declaring a king only deserves to be a king if he takes care of the rights of the people, then showing the crimes the king has committed, then the many appeals the population has made, and finally coming to the conclusion that they have no choice but to secede. And in the Dutch case, before the era of liberalism.

---

Sorry for the rant without prior warning, I just like babbling about my country's history.

Any questions you have should be asked (if you wish), my specialization is Dutch history from the Dutch Revolt till modern times. (So, basically, all of the Dutch history since it's founding)

I also find that July 26th should become a Dutch National Holiday, but, that's a debate for another time.

[TwoBitWriter]

Okay, updated list of lecture volunteers:


1) TwoBitWriter - German History from Classical to Modern
2) Paladin29 - Ancient Mesopotamian Culture
3) CurlyKitGirl - Late Medieval/Early Rennaissance English History, the Reign of Caeser Augustus
4) LCR - Weimar Germany, 20th Century Inter-War period.
5) I'm Da Rogue! - Classical Age, Modern Greece
6) Serpentine - Classical Age Culture and History, Byzantine Empire,
7) Arioch - Tudor England, English Civil War, World War I, the world Post WWI
8) Vampiric -History of Martial Arts, World War II, Post WWII Russia, Philosophy
9) Bor - The American Civil War (I trust you with this one if you are willing)
10) Vikingkingg - United States History
11) Gezina - Dutch History


This is the best I could compile, based on what has been said and volunteered so far. If you would like me to add something to what you wish to talk about, please do so. I tried to keep the subjects as broad as possible and not include too many people on the same subject. I also tried to include only what someone says they have considerable knowledge in. I only put down German history for myself even though I am familiar with and probably know more than the average joe about other historical subjects.

If you are comfortable with what I have you down for, we can begin. If you would like, I can roll a speaker randomly or we can have a group consensus on what subject they would like to hear about first.
Again, this is not necessarily meant to be a discussion thread as that can potentially lead to trouble. If a discussion is to be held it shouldn't be over matters such as motivation, right/wrong, good/bad, and should be avoided when it comes to potentially sensitive subjects. For example, you are far more likely to offend someone when talking about the causes of the American Civil War and the motivations of people who fought it then you are when discussing whether or not Julius Caesar was right in assuming dictatorship over Rome.
Be considerate, and keep all questions and discussions as academic as possible.
Depending on this group's consensus over the matter of selecting a lecture order, I will get the ball rolling hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

Note, if you are putting a lecture together you are more than welcome to pick out a couple of other members to assist you. This can be helpful if you want to expedite the posting by breaking the subject into smaller parts.
Please do not post questions until the lecturer notes that their lecture is concluded.

[Ascension]

No. This, too, is grossly oversimplified. Huge chunks of the union voting base and legislatures felt that entering a war to preserve the union was justified for abolition alone. And a whole lot of the "states rights" argument was more about maintaining and supporting an existing economy based on slave labor than it was a principled argument of constitutional law.

Be very, very wary when anyone tries to tell you "the REAL reason" for some piece of history. They're 100% guaranteed to be wrong. The real world is much more complicated.

100% wrong, eh? So are you saying there is no real reason for anything, or are you saying there's no single cause for anything? I agree that what I said was a simplification, thus why I said the main cause, not the only cause. And Bor pretty much said the same thing I said about the initial cause of the war, albeit in a much nicer sounding way.

I agree the world is a mighty complicated place, but I'd like to think it's within the grasp of human knowledge to understand something, every now and then.

Really, I shouldn't have brought it up. The Second Punic War is a much safer topic, seeing as how there aren't many Romans and/or Carthaginians around to offend anymore.

Hannibal should have pressed on to the gates of Rome itself immediately after the Battle of Cannae. As long as the Romans were still scared to death of him, he might have had a chance to bring a quick end to the conflict. Instead, he dawdled too long in the midst of enemy territory and paid for it.

I wonder what the modern world would look like if there had never been any grand Roman Empire...

[Gygaxphobia]

The Norse had one of the wierdest mythologies I've ever encountered. I mean, most are fairly nonsensical, but the Norse one just takes the cake.

I always thought the serious sexual issues in the psyche of Greek myth had the best claim there. Try Zeus turning into a swan and raping someone... or turning someone else into a bull to rape someone. Not to mention the original Oedipus.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but the US was not the first union of countries.

The first I am aware of (and there might be earlier) was The Republic of the Seven United Netherlands (or Dutch Republic), founded on July 26th, 1581.

It might be the first union of countries by act of law, but I doubt it. I'd expect parts of todays China to hold that claim.
Also: Laws in Wales Acts 1535-1542, annexing Wales to England, the first British Act of Union. (though I could claim the original one was when the Principality was created in C13th)

[TwoBitWriter]

I am editing my first post to include the list of potential lecturers. I will update that post as people are added or dropped.

I was aware of the Dutch Republic, but didn't know that much about it. Is there anyway you could link to the Dutch's Act of Abjuration? I would very much like to read that document and see what it was about. The founding fathers were very learned and enlightened individuals (for the most part) and I would love to learn more about what inspired them to create my country!

[RTGoodman]

Man, I'm pretty disappointed now. Looking through the old History term papers I've got saved on this computer, there probably aren't really any I'd feel comfortable discussing here.


-Music and Politics of the Vietnam War
-St. Augustine of Hippo - The Pagan Saint?
-The Easter Rising and Irish Rebel Music
-The McCarthy Era
-The Interactions between Muslims, Christians, and Jews in Crusades-Era Antioch
-War and Revolutions in Early and Medieval Islam

I guess I could go back through my notes and find a fun topic that I know a lot about but haven't actually written on. Probably something Classical or Medieval. I've got an old term paper on the Mabinogion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabinogion) that I actually presented at the University of St. Francis English Language conference a couple of years ago (up in Chicago/Joliet, Ill.). It's more focused on the literature than the history, though, but if people want to hear about that I can discuss it. I was also thinking about talking about Phoenician, Carthaginian, African (Berber), and Roman religion, but I see the board rules say no religion at all, so I don't know if even discussing extinct ones is okay and don't want to do so unless a mod gives permission.

What I'm saying is, you can go ahead and put me down for wanting to do this, but I don't know the exact topic yet.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Ina: No bubble to burst. :smalltongue: If anything, I've learned something I was simply unaware of. To burst a bubble, I would have to declare my knowledge superior, and I'm only wise enough to understand that I'm not very wise. :smallwink: (The wisdom of ignorance. Gotta love it.)

TBW While I appreciate the nomination for Cival War Rep itP, I am, for the most part, parroting the work of Mr. Foote...just simplified. It would arrogant of me to think I could properly represent the topic based on one key source of information. I'll still contribute, but I really don't want to be held accountable when I fail to leap in whatever I continue to learn. :smalleek:

[InaVegt]

It might be the first union of countries by act of law, but I doubt it. I'd expect parts of todays China to hold that claim.
Also: Laws in Wales Acts 1535-1542, annexing Wales to England, the first British Act of Union. (though I could claim the original one was when the Principality was created in C13th)

Like I said, first I'm aware off. If there's one thing that I've learned when talking about history is that claiming something is the first of something is a risky statement at best.

TBW: Ask, and ye shall recieve (http://www.let.rug.nl/~usa/D/1501-1600/plakkaat/plakkaaten.htm)

[Paladin29]

Here we go, I´ll put here some specific themes of my area, if anyone of you like one of these post it and I´ll begin to prepare the lecture.

Sumerian Mithology
Cunneiform writing
Akkadian empire (Sargon and his descendants)
Gilgamesh ¿real king or myth?
Hammurabi:rise and fall of the ancient Babylonian
Gudea, symbol of the sumerian rebirth

If anyone wants another issue of Messopotamian history, you only need to post it :smallsmile:

I could help too in spanish history (Gezina, I supposse that the spanish have no good reputation there :smallfrown:, sorry, our Habsburg kings were more interested in their familiar inheritance than in our country interest... I think that William of Orange was a reasonable person, but our king Philipp II didn´t have the enough political vision).

[Serpentine]

TwoBitWriter: Just so's you know, I cover Ancient, Classical, Medieval and Early Modern. Not very well, but I do :smallwink:

Curly, you can choose what I put up - and I think for now I will just use my assignments, possibly with extra notes/comments/discussion.

"Compare the status of women in traditional China and Japan. What were the principal factors determining the status of women in these two societies? How and why did women's status change throughout the history of China and Japan?" Mark: D+ (80-84%)
"Did the Romans have a concept of childhood?" Mark: 90%
"Examine the decline of "feudalism" and the development of a centralised bureaucratic state in traditional China. When did "feudalism" end in China, and why?" Mark: D (75-80%)
""The sexuality of the Roman male (in perfect agreement with his political ethics) was that of an aggressive dominator." (Cantarella) Does your reading of sexual relations in Rome bear out this assertion?" Mark: 86%
"What were the benefits and drawbacks of feudalism from the point of view of both the lord and the vassal?" Mark: 91%
"What role did empresses and eunuchs play in Byzantine government and society in the reigns of Arcadius and Theodosius II?" Mark: 19/20
"Is Thucydides correct to claim that the Athenians lost the Peloponnesian War because Perikles' successors abandoned his strategy?" Mark: 92%
"What factors influenced Psellus in his account of the reign of Basil II the Bulgar-slayer (976-1025)? To what extent is his portrait of this emperor biased and why?" Mark: 17/20
"How does mythology aid our understanding of Tibullus' elegies?" Mark: 87% (Just so you know, Tibullus was a very nice erotic poet. Lots of pastural scenes, if I recall correctly)
"How convincingly does Ovid convey the force of being in love by appeal to mythological precedent in the Amores?" Mark: 97% (woooo, go me!)
"Discuss the function of the mythological reference in Plato's Apology". Mark: 55% (not great =/ To be fair, it's from my first year)
"What are the main uses of mythology in Aristophanes' Clouds?" Mark: 86%
"The laudatio Turiae is a beautiful monument set up by a husband for his deceased wife. What does the laudatio Turiae reveal about the roles elite women could play in Republican Rome? Which of his wife's virtues did the laudatory choose to praise? Why? Is the inscription reliable evidence for the attitudes of the Romans towards their women?" Mark: 14.75/20 (or 73.75%)
"How does Caesar portray himself in his Civil Wars? How does he portray his opponents? Is his Civil Wars truthful? Is it history?" Mark: 18/20
"What caused Scandinavian expansion from the late eighth century till the early eleventh?" Mark: 85%
"Compare and evaluate the strategy and tactics used by the Romans against the Alamanni and Goths in AD 354-8 and 376-82." Mark: 75%
"Who better represents the spirit of late fifteenth and early sixteenth-century humanism, Erasmus or Machiavelli?" Mark: 86%
"What "Religious Options" were open to a Roman living in second century AD Rome?" Mark: Indecipherable. No really. I think it might be 75%?
"How and why did the Greeks employ the magic arts?" Mark: 16.5/20
"In what ways is Jason a different type of hero from those found in the Iliad?" Mark: 20/20 and "very likely to be the best essay I read this semester" ^_^
"How important were popular recreations in creating and reinforcing a sense of community in eighteenth century England?" Mark: 80%
"Why did so many labouring people in eighteenth and early nineteenth century Britain believe in magic, superstitions, omens and rituals?" Mark: 90%
"Discuss the ideology of Egyptian kingship in the Old and Middle Kingdoms: What was the relationship of the pharaohs to the gods and what was expected of the pharaoh by his subjects?" Mark: 14/20
"Examine various "alternative" explanations for the construction of the pyramids." Mark: 13.5/20 (disappointed :smallfrown:)

Annnnnd that's all the Arts assignments I have to hand - hopefully it's all the ones I've done, but I forget. I'm sure I got 98% in one, from a really harsh marker... Wonder what's happened to it :smallfrown: I'm afraid the archaeology assignments are really really dull =/ Same with the Odyssey assignment - just a structural analysis. So, is posting a copy of one of these okay? And which one would you want, Curly?

Oh, and I'm quite interested in the Scorpion King of Egypt. There's not exactly much known about him, but if I were to start anything from scratch, it'd probably be about him.

[InaVegt]

Paladin: That's history, our relationships with Spain are pretty good now. Even though Spaniards are one of the two European ethnicities to have a slur associated with them over here, it is too long ago for most people to care. Even Germany (The other to have received a slur) has mostly been forgiven.

As for stuff I think I could give a lecture about:

The rise of Dutch economy during the Dutch revolt.
The post VOC colonial influences on Dutch India/Indonesia.
The influences of WW-I on the Netherlands (a Neutral country).
The recovery of the Netherlands after WW-II.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Curly, you can choose what I put up - and I think for now I will just use my assignments, possibly with extra notes/comments/discussion.



"What caused Scandinavian expansion from the late eighth century till the early eleventh?" Mark: 85%
"Discuss the ideology of Egyptian kingship in the Old and Middle Kingdoms: What was the relationship of the pharaohs to the gods and what was expected of the pharaoh by his subjects?" Mark: 14/20
"What role did empresses and eunuchs play in Byzantine government and society in the reigns of Arcadius and Theodosius II?" Mark: 19/20

You ebil ebil person! So hard to choose and I'd want them all to be presented in an ideal world.
Here's my process of eradication: anything more literature/poetry related was removed first as this is primarily (sadly) focussing on history. Then I removed anything to do with Greece as we have a lecturer on that.
Why I have the shortlist is because we have one broad chronology (choice one) and its in a unique topic (volunteer wise); choice three is specific and a unique perspective/take on the Byzantine rule. But Roguey would know the detail of the empire methinks. Maybe this would be best as a supplementary topic when the Byzantine Empire is covered?
Choice two is choice two as it covers a broad spectrum but focuses a lot on a certain structure. If possible to have combined experts on this I'd say this would be best there.
Go with SCandinavian one. Lots of interest in that area.



(("In what ways is Jason a different type of hero from those found in the Iliad?" Mark: 20/20 and "very likely to be the best essay I read this semester" ^_^***))
(("What are the main uses of mythology in Aristophanes' Clouds?" Mark: 86%***
"The laudatio Turiae is a beautiful monument set up by a husband for his deceased wife. What does the laudatio Turiae reveal about the roles elite women could play in Republican Rome? Which of his wife's virtues did the laudatory choose to praise? Why? Is the inscription reliable evidence for the attitudes of the Romans towards their women?" Mark: 14.75/20 (or 73.75%)***))
Same with the Odyssey assignment*** - just a structural analysis. So, is posting a copy of one of these okay? And which one would you want, Curly?

***
If it's okay with you could you maybe PM me a copy of these as I did the Laudatia Turiae for my exam this year and I just love the Odyssey. Aristophanes is the comedic writer right? Although I'm doing some tragedy plays it'd also be nice to find out some stuff about the comedys.
Honestly, I'd love to read any of these essays.

[GenLee]

I'd volunteer for just about any of the topics I hit before, I'm most recently informed on the Pacific & Western parts of WW2. I'd just need some warning time.

Quite a few of the listed volunteered topics are interesting.

Those of you that posted actual grades and classes: wow. Most of my small amount of college history (undergrad) was lectures, followed by my writing a book review. They didn't let us do real research, with one exception.

Re: Netherlands as a model for the US: a fair idea, I haven't seen much to back it up. Most of my (superficial) reading has been that the Roman Republic and Greek states are most obvious models-- most of the education of the Founding Fathers was Greek-Roman classics. I've seen people who try to claim that the Iroqouis Confederacy is "the" model for the US constituion. I would have liked to have researched any connection between the Polish Republic and the US, too.

Re: R.E.Lee and the "bad guys"-- note, I was 7 when I heard that, and I was obviously not living in the South, nor learning from a teacher who bought into the Lost Cause. I'm not going to go farther into the States Rights vs. Slavery thing, except to say that IMO, Slavery was the core argument. Without it, there would have been far less friction between north & south.

[Mx.Silver]

I'll be starting studying it at university this autumn. My own range of the subject is broad but shallow. 16th century Europe is probably my best area of it (Reformation and Tudor England mostly) although not the areas that I'm all that fascinated about. Sadly, the things I'm most curious about (Middle East 7th-14th centuries, civilizations of central America, India etc.) tend to be those I know very little of. This probably isn't coincidence, given how my mind works.

[MeklorIlavator]

I would also be interested in this. My best topics would be American History(especially colonization, revolutionary, pre civil war through reconstruction, Mckinley and Roosevelt Presidency, and the early cold war periods), WW1, WW2, Roman History(focus on fall of republic, especially the political causes), Early English History(up to 1066), and assorted random times(I know the basics of major events, but not much more). I also know a bit about Ancient Greek, Japanese, Chinese, and Indian culture.

Of course, what I "know" is pretty much from whatever books I happen to read, so much of it falls neatly into the Amateur Historian area.

[RTGoodman]

...Middle East 7th-14th centuries...

I actually just took a class basically this same topic this past semester. I really only did so because I needed another "World History" class to graduate (since I already had enough European and American history classes) and I didn't think I'd like most of it, but it was actually rather interesting. We started with the life of Muhammad and went through around 1500 and covered not only the history (when things happened, the various Caliphs, the different dynasties) but also the culture of each group and cool stuff like that. For instance, we had a "Nowruz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawruz) party" and ate traditional foods, listened to music, and stuff like that.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I am interested in, and study in my spare time, the overarching chronology and cause and effect of great nations and empires.

Yuh-huh.

I am also interested in the history of Religion in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, as well as the Napoleonic Era in specific.
I am also very interested in historical politics.

I am most interested in doing a lecture on the religion, which is risky. I'm not too sure if it's a good idea, but I'm darn good at being impartial, and if kept at least 100 years away, it shouldn't be too much trouble?
Right?
Actually, we could get a mod in here and ask any limitations...

[MeklorIlavator]

I am most interested in doing a lecture on the religion, which is risky. I'm not too sure if it's a good idea, but I'm darn good at being impartial, and if kept at least 100 years away, it shouldn't be too much trouble?
Right?
Actually, we could get a mod in here and ask any limitations...

Considering that the mods have repeatedly said no real world religon at all, I doubt it. Though we really should get a Mod in here and run the idea by them, because I think the politics and religon rules could prove troublesome. This might not be the right forum for this kinda discussion.

[Arioch]

TwoBitWriter, I don't think I'd be that good on WW1 itself - mainly the direct aftermath. Also, my knowledge of the world after WW2 is limited to general knowledge, rather than historical education. The world between the wars is what I know best - specifically, Germany and the USA.

You could also add the Chinese Qin dynasty.

With regards to the religion and politics issue, how about these guidelines:

Express no moral opinion whatsoever on anything.
Do your best to give both sides of the story.

[Serpentine]

Go with SCandinavian one. Lots of interest in that area.Typically, this is one of those that isn't on my computer for some annoying reason :smallsigh: This means it'll take longer, but it may be neatened up somewhat and maybe have additional notes, as I'll have to type it out. Regarding the others: Check your email.

[Paladin29]

TwoBitWriter, I don't think I'd be that good on WW1 itself - mainly the direct aftermath. Also, my knowledge of the world after WW2 is limited to general knowledge, rather than historical education. The world between the wars is what I know best - specifically, Germany and the USA.

You could also add the Chinese Qin dynasty.

With regards to the religion and politics issue, how about these guidelines:

Express no moral opinion whatsoever on anything.
Do your best to give both sides of the story.


I agree, I will add this: attach to the facts that you can prove with verificable historical data.

[Om]

And as long as I'm lecturing, the greatest misconception about this particular war is that it was all about slavery. Wow, did I learn differently when I grew up! Slavery was only an underlying issue of the warUnderlying issue? From what I've read on the ACW, admittedly not a huge amount, there were a whole range of causes but slavery was pretty much the big and public one. The southern states may well have framed their right to secede in terms of states' rights... but it was the right to keep slaves that most held dear. This can be seen most obviously in the many declarations of secession (for example Georgia (http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Georgia) and Mississippi (http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Mississippi)) where the institution of slavery itself is vigorously defended

Of course that's what makes history so interesting - every generation another revisionist school comes along and insists that its interpretation is correct :smallcool:

Anyways, as for myself, I'm pretty sorry that I didn't do history during uni. Its always been a passion of mine and now I find myself devouring book after book on the subject. In the past year I've really settled on the amazing social and political transformations of 19th C Europe (a period I had previously dismissed as boring) and how regimes either adopted (a la France and Britain) or fell (see Russia and Austria-Hungary). After a few general histories I've now started working my way through the world nation by nation and am currently reading up on Germany - the rise of the Prussian state, the fall of Vienna, and the German Revolution - having just finished a few books on post-Independence Mexico. Its a fairly scatter gun approach but I do like sampling the different histories.

I'm thinking about where to go next - both the Ottoman Empire and French Second Empire are candidates - but the one area where I have gone fairly in-depth, devouring over half a dozen books on the subject, is the always fascinating Russian Revolution. Now there's a topic that never ceases to provoke debate and speculation

[CurlyKitGirl]

Before the forums dissolved into strange technical confusion and miscommunication I had a well thought out post re: religion/other controversial topics.
Frankly, for certain areas (I really couldn't cover my area of expertise without touching very heavily on the split in the Church - seriously, it affected everything from pretty much 1525 onwards) you've got to cover some aspects of religion.
I think that for any areas that'll pose a problem (like Late Medieval/Early Rennaissance English History) it may be best to create Extra Rules concerning their portion of the thread and trying to always give an unbiased opinion or give on cited by a well-known historian. Or attitudes at the time. And definitely avoiding anything that could turn into a flame war come Q&A time.
If you're really concerned then PMing a Mod to ask specifics for your own case couldn't hurt.

[TwoBitWriter]

*yawns, stretches* what a lovely nap!

Anyhow, I am awaiting a reply from the powers that be.

Its good to be back. And it is quite easy to discuss the Church's involvement in European History without fear of risking offense.

The main problem, as I am seeing with the slavery discussion, is that people are trying to argue motive. If such an issue is debatable, it should probably be disregarded entirely. As such, I feel it best to snuff discussion of the Causes of the American Civil War. The Events and actions of the ACW itself is fair game though.

[Om]

The main problem, as I am seeing with the slavery discussion, is that people are trying to argue motive. If such an issue is debatable, it should probably be disregarded entirely. As such, I feel it best to snuff discussion of the Causes of the American Civil War. The Events and actions of the ACW itself is fair game though.Well by divorcing (is anyone's religious sensibilities offended by my use of that term?) 'motive' from 'events' you're no longer discussing history. Just kings, dates, and battles :smallwink:

For example, I could chronicle, in detail, the various battles of the Franco-Prussian but it would be of interest to no one but the grognards in the Real World Weapons thread. Any discussion of that war that does not touch on the political motivation for war and the resulting reconfiguration of the European balance of power is simply not worth having

So the question is whether a) we can discuss politics and religion within the narrow scope of history or b) can anyone recommend a good history forum where we can talk freely about these (again, solely from a historical perspective)? Because cutting these topics out of the discussion leaves very little left - how on earth are you going to discuss the post-WWI environment without mentioning politics?

[Arioch]

Because cutting these topics out of the discussion leaves very little left - how on earth are you going to discuss the post-WWI environment without mentioning politics?

That...would be difficult, yes, especially since very little happens in that period but politics.

[Serpentine]

Well, I'm happy enough to throw in my essay on the causes of the Scandinavian expansion, but for some reason I think it's not on my computer so I'll have to physically type it up. Though I suppose I could just scan it... maybe... Could make it too hard to read, though.

[Mx.Silver]

I agree, I will add this: attach to the facts that you can prove with verificable historical data.

Aren't all three of those the mark of a good historian anyway?:smallwink:


On a more general note: does anyone know of any good books/sources on civilian life in late 16th and early 17th century Europe?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It's not what your looking for, but

One interesting read, is

London: The Novel.

I follows one London family from Roman Times, through to the present

[Matthew]

For example, I could chronicle, in detail, the various battles of the Franco-Prussian but it would be of interest to no one but the grognards in the Real World Weapons thread.

Phffft! Grognards.

[Paladin29]

I am baaaaack, BWAHAHAHA!!!

I think that we must begin to move, so let´s specify the first lectures. ¿popular vote?

[Serpentine]

I could spend some time tomorrow writing up/scanning that assignment. If I scan it, the trouble is Photobucket's size limit, but I'll see what I can do.

[CurlyKitGirl]

I am baaaaack, BWAHAHAHA!!!

I think that we must begin to move, so let´s specify the first lectures. ¿popular vote?

The way I see it you could either go chronological so Mesopotamia to Modern, reverse chronology or popular vote.
I also recall a suggestion for two threads at once for extra fun or whatever. If this happens then have one for Pre-500 AD/CE (whichever) and one for post-500 AD/CE (whichever date system).

If we go by popular vote I nominate Mesopotamia lectures!

[Catskin]

Aren't all three of those the mark of a good historian anyway?:smallwink:


On a more general note: does anyone know of any good books/sources on civilian life in late 16th and early 17th century Europe?

I recently read Will in the World, which covers the dates you're looking for. Yes, it's central focus is Shakespeare, so if that turns you off, then so be it. Otherwise, I'll recommend it for late 16th and early 17th c. English life, as it describes several general facets of civilian life, including the complex relation between Protestantism and Catholicism, land ownership, wills and deeds, urban businesses, education, and, obtaining royal titles. It gives glimpses of the patronage system and things like tavern atmospheres and local holidays too. It has an index you could scan.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I can start with a shortish lecture on the nature of history? Sort-of an introduction.

[TwoBitWriter]

I can start with a shortish lecture on the nature of history? Sort-of an introduction.

That's actually not a bad idea...

What does everyone else think of this?

[Paladin29]

It´s a common way to begin, I agree :smallsmile:

[Vampiric]

Sounds good to me! :smallsmile:

[Dallas-Dakota]

Sounds good.
I´l begin with the beginning of everything.


BOOM.

[WalkingTarget]

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...
The Earth began to cool,
The autotrophs began to drool,
Neanderthals developed tools,
We built a wall (we built the pyramids),
Math, science, history, unraveling the mysteries,
That all started with the big bang!

"Since the dawn of man" is really not that long,
As every galaxy was formed in less time than it takes to sing this song.
A fraction of a second and the elements were made.
The bipeds stood up straight,
The dinosaurs all met their fate,
They tried to leap but they were late
And they all died (they froze their asses off)
The oceans and pangea
See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya
Set in motion by the same big bang!

It all started with the big BANG!

It's expanding ever outward but one day
It will cause the stars to go the other way,
Collapsing ever inward, we won't be here, it wont be hurt
Our best and brightest figure that it'll make an even bigger bang!

Australopithecus would really have been sick of us
Debating out while here they're catching deer (we're catching viruses)
Religion or astronomy, Encarta, Deuteronomy
It all started with the big bang!

Music and mythology, Einstein and astrology
It all started with the big bang!
It all started with the big BANG!


¬.¬

...I'll show myself out.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

...
I have a sudden urge to begin the lecture with that song.

The beginning of history, in WalkingTarget's words...

Edit: I'll start writing it tomorrow evening. I should be done Thursday evening, at least. I really don't have much time this week, so it won't be too long. I really have no time right now, or tomorrow to write. After the introduction, which order shall we go in?

Another edit: I just realised that there was a link. Is that the theme song to the show?

[Paladin29]

It´d be useful that we put before the title of our thread-lectures, this: "[HitP]", this way everyone can easy identify our threads :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

Sounds good.
I´l begin with the beginning of everything.


BOOM.No no no, silly. It goes like this:

In the beginning, there was nothing.
And then it exploded.

[WalkingTarget]

Another edit: I just realised that there was a link. Is that the theme song to the show?

The first verse is the theme to the show. I think Barenaked Ladies released the "full" version a few months after the show began.

Ooo, found a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aym8_S3BXKw) somebody put together as well.

[Vampiric]

No no no, silly. It goes like this:

In the beginning, there was nothing.
And then it exploded.

No no no....

It's:

In the beginning, there was nothing. And the Lord said 'Let there be Light'. There was still nothing, but you could see it better.

[TwoBitWriter]

*Nudges away from Big Bang*

Anyhow, I have tried to update the volunteer lecture list to the best of my ability. Many people may have been simply listing their interests rather than what they are particularly knowledgable in (which tend to go hand-in-hand anyway.) The updated list is in the very first post of this thread.

I think that we should start the HitP lecture series with a lecture followed by discussion on the nature of history by Gwyn ap Nud. He says that he can have his lecture ready probably by tomorrow evening.

I am actually leaving town tomorrow night to attend a friend's wedding in another state and whether or not I will have access to a computer is unknown. Whenever Gwyn is ready for his lecture, he will post in HitP Lecture Hall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4580740#post4580740)

When it comes to lectures, please wait until the "speaker" states that their lecture is concluded before asking questions, making comments, etc. This will help prevent confusion on everybody's part and is simply considerate of the person taking the time to write out a lecture. I recommend that the speaker list some reference material (books, movies, etc) that anyone can access if they are interested in learning more about the particular subject.

As for multiple threads. I am afraid of adding to the overloading of the forums and upsetting those that run this place, so I feel it would be safer to avoid making two (though I really do like the idea of a pre-500 AD/BCE and a post-500 AD/CE thread.)

However, if someone can recommend a good Historically-based Forums where we can transfer our lecture activities, please post such a link and we can keep this thread open for general history-related discussion. In either case, this thread will remain open for the same such history discussions.

We have already mentioned and stressed multiple times the importance of being as objective and courteous as possible.

I think it would be wise to set a lecture schedule (similar to Better Know a Playgrounder) so that people will know when to "tune in" to a topic of particular interest. Each lecture will have three days for Q&A and discussion. Afterwards, I will announce the closure of the current topic and introduce the next speaker and their topic.

Does that sound structured enough?

Gwyn said that he will likely be finished writing his lecture the evening of Thursday, July 17. So I say that his first lecture and Q&A will commence on Friday, July 18th and will run until Sunday July 20th.
Afterwards, I guess its up to whoever's willing to go next, or to whatever the group consensus holds.
I think there is strong support for Paladin29 to discuss Mesopotamian culture/history at the moment, and might be a fine place to continue the HitP Lecture Series.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Because of a dying Great Grandmother, it will take me longer, but not overly so.

[TwoBitWriter]

Take all the time you need! We can have someone else start if you wish. Some things are priorities, you know.

Edit: I went ahead and created the Lecture Hall thread, so you can start as soon as you're ready!

[Serpentine]

I think just having a thread on here - I was going to say this one, but it seems you've already made a new one - should be fine.

[TwoBitWriter]

I think it would be alright. Though I already had people post in it when I asked people not to in my first post... *sigh* oh well... such is life.

[Tormsskull]

Very interesting. I have always had a deep love for history. I know a little bit about a lot of places, but I have quite a bit of knowledge about Genghis Khan & The Mongol Empire (including some about his heirs).

For overtly-specific history, I took a class in Michigan history (for all non-USAers (and maybe some USAers :smalltongue:) Michigan is a northern state in USA on the border with Canada, has an upper and lower peninsula, and quite a bit of history behind it.

Either way, I look forward to reading a lot of these lectures.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I have an idea: When someone actually has a lecture up, maybe change the title to something like:

HitP Lecture Hall: Gwyn on the Nature of History, or the equivalent, like
HitP Lecture Hall: Tormsskull on the Personal Life of Genghis Khan.

[TwoBitWriter]

Very interesting. I have always had a deep love for history. I know a little bit about a lot of places, but I have quite a bit of knowledge about Ghenghis Khan & The Mongol Empire (including some about his heirs).

For overtly-specific history, I took a class in Michigan history (for all non-USAers (and maybe some USAers :smalltongue:) Michigan is a northern state in USA on the border with Canada, has an upper and lower peninsula, and quite a bit of history behind it.

Either way, I look forward to reading a lot of these lectures.

Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald always brings a tear to the eye...

Anyhow, Gwyn, I was planning on doing just that. Lemme know by PM when you are ready to post and I will do just that!

[Vampiric]

Good idea, but stops working after page 6, apparently...

[EvilElitest]

I am a truly ignorant of Chinesse history, I would be very grateful if you instruct me about that :smallsmile:

i know some chinese, but i'm unfamiliar with the history of the chinesse


Generally speaking i'm a history nut, but i prefer western sadly
from
EE

[TwoBitWriter]

Gwyn, when you are able to post, I recommend you also post a reply so that people can find the thread easier, since you are simply going to edit your placeholder post.

[Paladin29]

Damn it!!, it looks that we must to make thread necromancy to our lecture hall. :smallfrown:

I´ll be out one week in Germany, I´ll be back in 4th of August, don´t close Gwyn´s lecture before i can participate please.

[13_CBS]

Hmm...I did a 6 month project on Western European maille and shields. I'd like to sign up for a date where I can post most (if not all) of my final paper.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Lectures :
HitP Lecture Hall: Gwyn on the Nature of History, or the equivalent, like
HitP Lecture Hall: Tormsskull on the Personal Life of Genghis Khan.
HitP Lecture Hall: 13_CBS on Western European Maille and Shields

Requested Lectures:
Requested by Paladin29 on Chinese History.

-------------

Suggested idea by me : If somebody is willing to do a Requested Lecture, it moves up the list to after the current one. That way, any demand and questions are easily solved.

Criticism, improvements or approval of the suggestion?

[TwoBitWriter]

Actually, I have finally gotten word back from the Admin. The mods are discussing the validity of this thread and the idea of lectures. I am hoping to get their decision on the matter soon.

So its probably a good thing Gwyn hasn't posted just yet...

[Dallas-Dakota]

Ah ok then.
*Awaits response*

[13_CBS]

Aw, poo.

Perhaps the mods will let us discuss non-controversial historical stuff, like hardware? Surely they will let us discuss the merits behind maille and plate harnesses, or how swords were an important tool of warfare throughout history.

[Purple Cloak]

I've studied Some european history, some English history, the roman period and Medical history. (Not sure why that was chosen at school though.)

I also Will be getting my Results for my archeology within a month, if thats relevent in any way.

[TwoBitWriter]

Aw, poo.

Perhaps the mods will let us discuss non-controversial historical stuff, like hardware? Surely they will let us discuss the merits behind maille and plate harnesses, or how swords were an important tool of warfare throughout history.

That might be a fine lecture in and of itself.

[13_CBS]

Yay! That means I'm still up! :smallbiggrin:

[TwoBitWriter]

Swords may be particularly interesting, such a discussion on how stronger metals and more advanced metallurgy led to longer and stronger swords.

Also, a comparison and contrast of the merits of Eastern Asian swords versus the straight-bladed swords or the West and the Scimitars and such of the Middle East.

Same for armor. Different regions had different styles and materials.

Edit: I'm still waiting on someone who has studied African and Middle-Eastern history!

[Tragic_Comedian]

Swords may be particularly interesting, such a discussion on how stronger metals and more advanced metallurgy led to longer and stronger swords.

Also, a comparison and contrast of the merits of Eastern Asian swords versus the straight-bladed swords or the West and the Scimitars and such of the Middle East.

Same for armor. Different regions had different styles and materials.

Edit: I'm still waiting on someone who has studied African and Middle-Eastern history!

For a second I thought that said Middle-EARTH history. I might be able to help you there. :smallbiggrin: How's a lecture on early Elf culture sound?

[TwoBitWriter]

Haha, I have read The Silmarillion, so I think I have the 1st Age covered. Thats where most of the coolest stuff happened anyhow (Sauron has nothing on Melkor!)

[Dallas-Dakota]

Seconded and seconded.(Both Tragic and Twobit´s posts)

Or I might teach y´all some lessons about the dwarves.

[13_CBS]

Eh...could we keep this thread as non-fictional as possible? We could make a new thread devoted to lectures on fictional history.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Hmm, I´l try and its possible....

[Fri]

Anyway, I want to ask for an opinion from you guys. Do you think that generally, people think other culture's history is 'cooler' than their own? I have this feeling because, well, a lot of people (not all, of course) around me seems more interested in others history. It's because people got saturated with their own history. What do you think?

[WalkingTarget]

Anyway, I want to ask for an opinion from you guys. Do you think that generally, people think other culture's history is 'cooler' than their own? I have this feeling because, well, a lot of people (not all, of course) around me seems more interested in others history. It's because people got saturated with their own history. What do you think?

I agree that there's a tendency to view other cultures as "cooler". I think this might be due to the fact that it's all new. People have at least a basic background understanding of their own culture's history (or I would hope that they do, even if only in a kind of back-handed way) so they don't really look into the fine details or find it boring since they think they already know it all. Other cultures are new and different right away and are therefore more interesting.

I think that people would cease to find their own stuff as boring if they were to look into the minutiae.

[Felixaar]

Yo, History Dork here. Not formally educated - yet - but considering it, among other things. Specifically Military history and battle tactics.

[Paladin29]

There is a tendency to admire cultures diferent of our own, but subjective opinions or preferences are not the historian ground.

[RTGoodman]

Edit: I'm still waiting on someone who has studied African and Middle-Eastern history!

Wow, I had completely forgotten about this... :smallredface:

An idea that I've just had, with your statement about Africa and the Middle East, is that I could do a lecture on "Carthage: Hybrid History, Hybrid Empire" or something like that. It wouldn't focus on religion (might mention it in passing, but not actually "discuss" it) and I don't think the politics would be a problem unless someone want to try to compare the Carthaginian empire to modern day nations or something.

You can add that to the list if you'd like and if anyone's interested.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Er, you realize I only gave Tormsskull as another example?

[Tormsskull]

Er, you realize I only gave Tormsskull as another example?

lol. I was wondering how I got signed up so quickly. If need be I can fill that spot though, but it will probably take me at least a week or two to put my lecture up. 1st being that I want to make sure I use as many sources as possible (never can really go by 1 source). And 2nd because time is tight right now.

If the mods decide that they do not like the idea of the lectures here, or even if we just want to be able to discuss things with a bit more meat on them (such as religious/political aspects of a particular group/people/person), I could always fire up the forums that come with my website.

I used to use them but they got spammed real bad by bots. But if I make it where you have to be authorized to post, then I think it could serve our purposes for HITP.

Let me know what you all think.

[13_CBS]

2 questions:

1) What is the character limit per post on this forum?

2) Fri, could you tell me when my appointed lecture date is?

[Serpentine]

1) What is the character limit per post on this forum?The first post in the Hall of Fame is pretty close to full - at least, I can't fit another contest in it. And considering how far behind the very first one is, I think it'll be a bit of a stretch to get any reliable date for later lectures...

[13_CBS]

Aw, poo. I really wanted to share my paper on maille and shields, too :smallfrown:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Damn.

It always works this way. Whenever I start an online project, RL has to mess up and get in the way. Due to a computer crash, I lost all of the rest of the lecture, which I had just spent several hours on, and now I'm being called away, so I can't rewrite it...

[Dallas-Dakota]

Damn.

It always works this way. Whenever I start an online project, RL has to mess up and get in the way. Due to a computer crash, I lost all of the rest of the lecture, which I had just spent several hours on, and now I'm being called away, so I can't rewrite it...
That sucks.

And that´s why I have word autosafe if I have something open for logner then ten minutes....

[Om]

Anyway, I want to ask for an opinion from you guys. Do you think that generally, people think other culture's history is 'cooler' than their own? I have this feeling because, well, a lot of people (not all, of course) around me seems more interested in others history. It's because people got saturated with their own history. What do you think?I don't think so. Within certain subcultures there might be a tendency to look abroad (I'd imagine that the ratio of Japanophiles on this board is somewhat higher than average) but, by and large, people tend to look within their own nations. For example, most Europeans will inevitably have a Euro-centric view of history and relatively few will study Asian or African history

[TwoBitWriter]

The problem with that, particularly with Americans, is that our history runs so short compared to the rest of the world. Most Americans, I think, have a rather Euro-centric view as well since our origins lie mostly with Europe.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Americans as in from The U.S.A. or Americans as in from North America? Or Americans as in from North + South America?

Doesn´t really matter.

Doesn´t really matter, there are some wide histories, like the aztecs, the apaches and the Incas and such!

I might do one on the Aztecs if I feel up to it....

[TwoBitWriter]

USA Americans, sorry. We commonly refer to ourselves as Americans. I think it flows nicer than United Statesians or USAliens. :smallsmile:

[Om]

Doesn´t really matter, there are some wide histories, like the aztecs, the apaches and the Incas and such!Even then it depends. I know that in decades past, and perhaps still today, a lot of Mexicans regarded their country's history as dating back to colonial times with everything before written off as primitive and almost embarrassing. I wouldn't be surprised if the same attitude was once common north of the border with regards the various native civilisations

[Serpentine]

Technically, history is about times when there's written records. Thus, unless you count rock paintings (which they generally don't), Australia's history literally begins a few centuries ago. Thus, I suspect that native North American nations wouldn't have history until European settlement, whereas the Aztec, Inca and Mayan do. Oral history is a whole other bag o' beans...
Incidentally, I haven't done much on it but I am really interested in South American ancient history.

[Dallas-Dakota]

haven't done much on it but I am really interested in South American ancient history.
Neither have I, but I do know some cool Inca facts....

[Arioch]

The problem with that, particularly with Americans, is that our history runs so short compared to the rest of the world. Most Americans, I think, have a rather Euro-centric view as well since our origins lie mostly with Europe.

This reminds me of an anecdote from my holiday in the US a couple of years ago. We were at Zion Canyon, and our American tour guide was getting very excited about a couple of wooden buildings which were apparently just over a hundred years old. Everyone in the tour, being British, was less excited. Eventually one of the others turned to the guide and said "Not to take the wind out of your sails or anything, but my house is older than this."

How does the saying go? "An American thinks a hundred years is a long time while an Englishman thinks a hundred miles is a long way."

[13_CBS]

Well, still waiting for the first lecture to finish...

[Mx.Silver]

Anyway, I want to ask for an opinion from you guys. Do you think that generally, people think other culture's history is 'cooler' than their own? I have this feeling because, well, a lot of people (not all, of course) around me seems more interested in others history. It's because people got saturated with their own history. What do you think?

I wouldn't say I found the history of other cultures 'cooler' but I am more curious about it. The reason is, I know about my own culture, and I know about my own country's history. I know little about the history of cultures outside of Europe which just makes me more curious.

On the lecture topic, I suppose I could do something on the European
Reformation, or possible some aspects of Tudor England if the former is considered a bit too religious in tone for the forum's rules.

[ForzaFiori]

I wouldn't say I found the history of other cultures 'cooler' but I am more curious about it. The reason is, I know about my own culture, and I know about my own country's history. I know little about the history of cultures outside of Europe which just makes me more curious.


I agree. I've been taught my culture, and the history of my state/country since like 2nd, 3rd grade. Only this year, my 11th grade year, am I offered a World History course. So it is rather obvious that I will be rather curious about the history of places that I dont know about, since I've been studying the battle of King's Mountain every year for nearly 7 years now, but the only time we've mentioned the Aztec is to say that Cortez wiped them out.

[TwoBitWriter]

I am currently working out a way to better organize the Lecture concept... I anyone has a recommendation I would happily take any advice.

[Paladin29]

Perhaps we can make a poll before the theme of the lecture is decided. The ones who votes for one lecture must get involved in the Q&A time.

[darkzucchini]

Just saw this so I figured I would post my historical expertise. While I am not a History major, I consistently had the highest grades in History/Social Studies throughout high school, acing the Social Studies Regents (thats the big state test for you non-New Yorkers), so I would say that I know significantly more about history than the average American (probably more than the average person in general as far as ancient history goes). At college I spent a lot of time studying genocide (the Holocaust, Armenian genocide, Rwandan genocide, genocide and ethnic cleansing of indigenous populations, ect.), including learning under a prominent professor of Comparative Genocide, so I figure I a pretty learned in that area. College background is Sociology/Government, so, while not precisely a history major, I have a fair understanding of historical connections and a large repertoire of facts to back them up.

[Otempora]

Right now I'm still in high school, but I've always been interested in history, and next year I'm taking higher history in the IB (comprable to an AP class or an A-level). I'm thinking about studying it at university. I'm interested in almost all types of history. I really like ancient and modern history in particular, though.

[Moody the Wise]

Well, it looks like this is a pretty dead thread, but if anybody is still checking this and interested, I present the following:


Gauging interest in a game concept I just had ...

The basic gist of it is that it will be a World War I simulation in which I, the GM, play most of the historically significant powers in the conflict, and you, the players, play as smaller powers trying to achieve your own goals. For example, someone might play the Irish Nationalists trying to use the war to achieve independence from Britain, or Brazil, entering the war to relieve domestic pressures. The emphasis will be on diplomacy and on roleplaying with a respect for the historical context. At the least, I'd expect players to have read a few relevant Wikipedia articles about the time period and the history of the their country.


The Gauging Interest Thread is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95244).