Anyone with GURPS or starwars knowledge will become my new deity

[Wraithy]

I'd been planning on using this (http://members.chello.nl/l.deckers3/sw_gurps.html) ruleset for a starwars GURPS campaign, but after looking at all the rule books I'd need to buy it soon became clear that playing this campaign properly would be as difficult and expensive as a law degree.
So instead of buying all the books and learning several thousand pages of rules, I've decided to adapt GURPS lite and the info in the above link, with plenty of rubber bands, string, and sticky tape, to create a passable and easy way of playing Jedi.

I was thinking that instead of using the powers rules (which I don't have), I'd create a new attribute called force, and a new skill with the same name.
This way I could just make a table with all the force abilities, and make my players roll the skill for each attempt. (I actually think this is closer to starwars than using powers rules because most Jedi can do the same basic tricks)

The main problem is that my knowledge of both starwars and GURPS is limited, I've watched the films and read GURPS lite and some of the pdf's inthe link, thats about it. Could anyone with knowledge in either of these areas please help me?

[mikeejimbo]

Bow before me!

Tell me, what books can you access? Just GURPS Lite? If you had at least the Basic Set you could probably cobble together something decently. Otherwise, I would suggest you base your skills off of the different Force powers present in the book.

I actually rather like your idea of making a Force attribute. It would cost 20 points/level? And all Force skills would be Force/Very Hard? That would be the closest way to balance it.

Also it would let you make characters who weren't necessarily smart or high-willed still be powerful in the Force.

Not edit: Ninja'd

Edit: NOT ninja'd, amazing!

[Wraithy]

Actually I do own the basic set, but can't quite see a difference between it and the lite yet (I've only flicked through it so far)

[mikeejimbo]

Oh good! Let me grab my book.

For one thing, the Basic Set has a lot more advantages outlined in it. It's not as cool as Powers, but it should provide you a basis of Force-based stuff.

One of the ways, and in fact the suggested way, to handle the Force-based stuff is to make the Advantages, with the modifier "Force-based, -10%" (Because things that interfere with the Force will interfere with using that Advantage) I'll list some Advantages that I think could be explained as 'using the Force' and thus are options for Jedi characters.

360 Vision
Absolute Direction
Absolute Timing
Acute Senses
Affliction (If you dress it up correctly)
Altered Time Rate
Animal Empathy
Binding
Blessed
Breath-Holding
Catfall
Chameleon
Channeling (Depending on if you want to be able to Channel Force spirits)
Clairsentience (Big one!)
Constriction Attack
Danger Sense
...

And that's just up to the D's.

Under this paradigm, you wouldn't need a Force attribute at all, but you could create a Force Talent, which would give you a +1/level to any roll involved with a Force Advantage (Though many of these don't require rolls, some, like Affliction, do.)

Edit:

Oh yeah, I wanted to mention spells, too. Some spells are Force-like, and since spells are treated like skills, the Force Talent would improve them too. (Of course by now, Force Talent is getting pretty awesome! It might cost 20pts/level itself, as though it were one of the 'powerful' base attributes.)

Good "Force-like" spells include Lightning (obviously!), most of the Body Control and Communication/Empathy school, some of the Fire school, most of the Healing school, some of the Knowledge school, some of the Light/Dark school, the Meta school, the Mind Control school, the Movement school, and maybe some of the Necromantic school.

If you're going to allow spells as Force abilities, you'll want to make the players take 'Magery' but call it something else, like "Force Sensitivity." It comes in three levels, and having a certain level is a prerequisite for certain spells.

[Wraithy]

erm, thats weird, my basic set doesn't have anything to do with character building in it, just stuff about world building

[mikeejimbo]

erm, thats weird, my basic set doesn't have anything to do with character building in it, just stuff about world building

Ooh, you have the Basic Set Campaigns section? Everything I've mentioned is in the Characters book.

There are two books to the Basic Set - Characters and Campaigns. It's kind of like how there's a PHB and DMG for D&D.

[Wraithy]

well I suppose that means this version of the rules will have to work without the basic set.

I thought that maybe the force attribute could give bonuses to things like attack and defense based rolls, as well as governing the force skill, and then keep skills like parry beam weapons from the link.

My main problem at the moment is working out the difficulty classes for using the force skill, with that as a base we could then go on to make rules along these lines: a force jump of xx feet requires a force roll of xx, for every xx feet above this add xx to the difficulty. or something along those lines.

Another thing I need help with from someone with starwars knowledge is what exactly you can do with the force and how high level is that considered by the Jedi.
So far all I know is force Jump, Push, that mind control thingy, lightning (is that sith only?) and the strangling one (I'm pretty sure that is sith only)

[Hawriel]

Are you trying to addapt D20 star wars into GURPS or the D6 star wars? If its D20 scrap it. It will give you problems trying to retool it into a skill based game. Go with D6. Its already a skill based game. That system had three atributes for using the force. They are sence, controle and alter. You rased these skill as if they where attributes like Strength or dex. Being force sensative is a yes or no question. All force powers where linked to at least one force attribute. More complex powers would use two or all three. Learning force powers in D6 is also a yes or no question. You would learn a power then use the corpisponding attribute. All powers have two prerequisets for learning them. The level of a coresponding attribute(s) and previosly learned power. Kinda like how power attack is needed to learn cleave.

The force powers had a loose dectription on what the power could do. Like Telekanices. The player would tell the GM how they wanted to use it. Like forcepunching a storm trooper. The GM would tell the player to roll a controll and alteration attibute. If the player wanted to squeeze the stormtroopers heart there would need to be a sence check. Or possibly a knowledge bioligy or medic check befor. To see if the PC new whare the heart is.

D20 took old force power and split hairs to make them 3 or 4 narrowly defined powers. D6 had powers with a little room for creative use. They still had a butt load of powers. I recomend, if you can, to look at the varios GURPS books with powers with out buying them and see if its somthing you can addapt to the force. It would be easyer because most of the work would be done for you.

[mikeejimbo]

I would make more than one Force skill. At least three - Alter, Control, and Sense. Alter includes things like Force lightning (which is only used by the Sith- it can be used by others but it is evil), and telekinesis (I think). Control is an inner sort of effect, and includes Body-Control stuff. Sense is telepathy and clairvoyance and the sort (again, I think).

They would all be Force/Very Hard skills, under this paradigm.

[Wraithy]

ah, hadn't thought of different skills, though it sounds more balanced now that you mention it.
That way you could give players the option of substituting a defense roll for a sense roll.

@Hawriel: I've decided against D20 starwars because if its anything like DnD, then hitpoints would scale to massive levels, where in starwars it is generally accepted that when you get hit you get injured if you are lucky.
I'm not entirely sure what D6 starwars is, and the problem I had with GURPS was the reliance on multiple books, if possible I'd like to homebrew a relatively simple (hopefully skills based) system for using the force which coould be combined with the GURPS lite rules and the ones in the link to form a relatively easy to grasp system.

[Hawriel]

D6 star wars. Or More porperly known as Star Wars 2nd edition by West End Games. Is a Skill based game that uses D6s. Thats it. A character has 6 stats, Dex, Str, perseption, knowledge, Technical, mechanical. The stat is the base for all skill invalved with that stat. example A score of 4D6, wich is max for a human is very good. Firearms (blasters) is a dex skill. If you add 1D6 to the skill you have 5D6 to roll when using a firearm. There are no levels just stat and skill raiting. 2nd ed star wars went out of print over 10 years ago. If you want to use GURPS thats cool its your thing it will work for star wars. I mentioned the older game to give you an example of a skill based star wars game.

Here is a link to West End Games D6 Space. Its the same game with the star wars taken out. The rules are for any type of space setting you want.
http://www.westendgames.com/d6_space.asp

Take a look at there sample pages and see how it is. I recomending getting it or looking for old star wars books on line. But you want to use GURPS. use google to look it up so you can see how it works. Converting a level based system into skill based system is hard and doesnt always work out. Or the other way around. Thats why I hate D20 star wars.

Its D20 star wars that makes BS rulings that force lightning is "Sith only". Thats crap. Any force user who bothers to learn on their own, from a book, or from a teacher, can use force lightning. If using a lightsaber to kill some one does not push you to the dark side neither will cushing their skull with the force. The force is used in BOTH casess. Its intent of the user what makes things evil. Drain energy is a "dark side" power according to D20. There example in how it's used is to drain the energy from a persons blaster. How is that evil? If you literaly disarmed them with a light saber you don't go dark, but if you suck the battery dry making a weapon that can kill some one useless, does.

Ok off topic. But keep that in mind. Its the entent and actions of a character wich makes them good or evil. Not an arbitrary labeling of an ability.

If you want to know about D6 star wars in how it uses the force let me know. the books are on my shelf I post how it works. That way you have an idea of what to do or not to do for GURPS. However the easiest thing to do is look at the GURPS books that have magic or mental powers in them. Take what looks Jedi rename it and use that.

[Wraithy]

At the moment my vision of the system is a new stat (probably called force), which gives you a certain amount of points that you can spend each time you use one of the 3 force skills over a certain difficulty level (this way, easy stuff like picking up your lightsaber with the force won't cost you any points, but picking up a spaceship would cost quite a lot of points)

In my campaign my players will be relatively experienced padawans, so for now I need to know what techniques padawans can do.

[mikeejimbo]

At the moment my vision of the system is a new stat (probably called force), which gives you a certain amount of points that you can spend each time you use one of the 3 force skills over a certain difficulty level (this way, easy stuff like picking up your lightsaber with the force won't cost you any points, but picking up a spaceship would cost quite a lot of points)

In my campaign my players will be relatively experienced padawans, so for now I need to know what techniques padawans can do.

That sounds like a good plan, actually, similar to the GURPS style of magic use.