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Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 06:33 PM
So I'm making a Warblade 18//Psion 18 for a game on these boards and I've never made a Warblade before (and haven't played very many melee characters at all) and could use some help.

My attributes (unassigned) are: 18,18,18, 14, 12, 10
My race is Grey Elf. One of those 18's will be in Int. I have the feat Faerie Mysteries Initiate which lets me use Int instead of Con for HP (meaning Con will probable get the 12).
I'm allowed 2 flaws and I can Chaos Shuffle my 4 racial bonus feats into other feats.

So I'm open to suggestions for feats, maneuvers, and items (I can handle the Psion side just fine).

Djinn_in_Tonic
2008-07-30, 06:47 PM
If I were you, I'd do the following:

Str: 18
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

For maneuvers, Diamond Mind would synergize well, as you'll have Concentration up high for manifesting powers and it's a very "smart" discipline. Aside from that, Iron Heart is good, and Stone Dragon can be useful...White Raven doesn't really sound like it would do well here.

For feats, I'm really not sure...take pretty much anything you want. Anything that allows you to quicken powers easier would be a good bet though, since at that level you can combo some devastating things...powers that make you hit more reliably and, say, Avalanche of Blades, or hitting someone with Mountain Tombstone Strike and then a disabling power that requires a Fortitude save.

Actually...that last idea is a REALLY good one. I'd recommend it.

AmberVael
2008-07-30, 06:59 PM
While you can handle the psion side just fine, it's still important for there to be synergy between that side and the warblade side, so it may be a good idea for you to either list what you're doing with the psion side, or take some suggestions on it anyways.

And the Faerie Mysteries Initiate feat? Int to HP? I remember that ritual.... kinky. :smalltongue:

Well anywho. Since you're not a Swordsage, you're going to be unable to focus your build around dexterity unless you sink a large number of feats into doing so, which would likely be a poor choice. As such, your main warblade stat (other than Intelligence, which you should rightfully place as chief stat) will be Strength. So probably an 18 into that, and you should probably just put the other 18 into dexterity anyways because armor and dodging capabilities are helpful to both of your classes.
That leaves the 14 for wisdom and 10 for charisma. 12 can go into Con, yeah, you've got that feat, so you're good there (Fort saves are taken care of by the Warblade class).

Typically I'd recommend focusing on a lot of the Diamond Mind manuevers, but with Psion on the other half of gestalt it just looks a lot less appealing. You've got a good will save, so it won't help much there, a massive intelligence bonus along with really good dex make your reflex saves good too, and the other stuff is either about damage dealing or minor things that can be replicated easily with psionic powers that I very much hope you'll be taking (like Touchsight, for one example.)

^: He may have concentration up high, but what use will that really be? His saving throws will likely be good enough already, which is a lot of what Diamond mind does with concentration.

MammonAzrael
2008-07-30, 07:01 PM
I'd say part of the decision is deciding which half you want to take center stage, and which to be the support/utility. what type of Psion brokenness are you looking to concoct?

The only thing I can say off the top of my head is Diamond Defense is a fantastic manuever to pick up, don't miss it. Time Stands still is also great.

EDIT: Super ninja'd

The_Snark
2008-07-30, 07:03 PM
I highly, highly recommend Robilar's Gambit for almost any high-level warblade. Combat Reflexes is a warblade bonus feat, you'll probably have solid dexterity since you're an elf and aren't proficient with heavy armor, and you'll get to add your Int bonus to attack and damage on each attack of opportunity.

Stormguard Warrior is also a good feat in a lot of situations, but beware mixing it with Robilar's Gambit- it can get cheesy pretty fast. Despite being the Iron Heart signature tactical feat, it works best with Diamond Mind strikes—Avalanche of Blades used for Combat Rhythm, followed by Time Stands Still, for example.

But really, there are a lot of options here; it's probably best to pick a style (heavy two-handed weapon, duelisty, two-weapon fighting, whatever you like) and then build around that.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-07-30, 07:14 PM
IIRC, there are a bunch of good feats for ToB that require burning your Psionic Focus. Take a couple of those, and use either boosts+powers, or quickened powers+strikes, both in combination with self-buffing when you have time.

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 07:15 PM
Hmm, any PrC advice? The only ones that looks semi interesting is Eternal Blade, and possibly Slayer (thrallhead isn't an option).

As for what type, that is a good question. As I said, I've never played a warblade before and outside of swordsages I have played exactly 3 melee characters.

AmberVael
2008-07-30, 07:20 PM
Though I'm mostly repeating what I've heard others say (as I've not managed to play this particular class myself), I have heard that Master of Nine is a good pick. Maybe if you take a swordsage dip it could be worthwhile.

MammonAzrael
2008-07-30, 07:21 PM
Eternal Blade is pretty good, and there's a decent going over of it here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14400541&postcount=6) Honestly though, the ToB classes don't really need a PrC, and the base classes are good in and of themselves. And the Warblade's capstone is quite nice.

I can't help you with the psionic PrCs, as I have yet to run a psionic character myself.

Chronicled
2008-07-30, 07:45 PM
What discipline are you planning for the Psion side?

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-07-30, 07:47 PM
Master of Nine is good, but you need to spend a lot of feats. I do recommend being a Swordsage for that one.

Secondly, where is this "Faerie Mysteries Initiate" feat? Do you need to be a Fey or Elf to take it?

AmberVael
2008-07-30, 07:49 PM
Master of Nine is good, but you need to spend a lot of feats. I do recommend being a Swordsage for that one.

Secondly, where is this "Faerie Mysteries Initiate" feat? Do you need to be a Fey or Elf to take it?
You can see the feat here. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Faerie_Mysteries_Initiate,all)

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 07:56 PM
What discipline are you planning for the Psion side?

Most likely Telepath.


Secondly, where is this "Faerie Mysteries Initiate" feat? Do you need to be a Fey or Elf to take it?

Dragon #319.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2008-07-30, 07:56 PM
Most Helpful, Vael, tyvm! :smallsmile:

For the Maneuvers and stats like that, and if you are sticking with Warblade, White Raven would be you and your party's best benefit, IMO. After that, I would choose Iron Heart (almost solely based on Iron Heart Surge).

Ecalsneerg
2008-07-30, 07:59 PM
Hmm, any PrC advice? The only ones that looks semi interesting is Eternal Blade, and possibly Slayer (thrallhead isn't an option).

Lords of Madness has a full-BAB 5-level psionic or divine PrC which gives power resistance as its capstone ability. Fairly easy to enter too.

I think it's called Sanctified Mind.

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 08:13 PM
Does it increase your manifesting at every level? Or at least 4/5. I would take metamind but I don't want to loose out on 5 levels of powers.

Well here are my feats so far, feel free to make suggestions. I want the Psicrystal for the extra Psionic Focus so it would take a really good reason for me to get rid of it (especially as I have 6 feats left).

Feats:
Level 1: Faerie Mysteries Initiate
Level 3: Power Attack
Level 6: Psionic Weapon
Level 9: Stormguard Warrior
Level 12: Robilar's Gambit
Level 15: Deep Impact
Level 18:

Racial Feats (Chaos Shuffled):
1:
2:
3:
4:

Warblade Bonus Feats:
Level 5: Combat Reflex's
Level 9: Ironheart Aura
Level 13: Improved Initiative
Level 17: Blind-Fight

Psion Bonus Feats:
Level 1: Psionic Meditation
Level 5: Psicrystal Affinity
Level 10: Psicrystal Containment
Level 15:

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-07-30, 09:16 PM
Slayer is an okay PrC, but better for PsiWars. Requires Track as a feat. Effectively permanent Mind Blank is pretty handy, though.

Uncarnate is fun, but you loose too many manifester levels.

Elocater would be an option, but pretty feat intensive. Dimension Spring Attack is fun to combine with Tombstone Strike.

If you don't care about manifester levels, you can try Pyrokeneticist. Greater Weapon Afire means effectively having Desert Wind without having to blow feats and maneuvers to get it. Plus the sheer awsome in walking around in a nimbus of fire with a flame whip in one hand and a sword in the other, like some kind of humanoid Balor.

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 09:30 PM
If you don't care about manifester levels, you can try Pyrokeneticist. Greater Weapon Afire means effectively having Desert Wind without having to blow feats and maneuvers to get it. Plus the sheer awsome in walking around in a nimbus of fire with a flame whip in one hand and a sword in the other, like some kind of humanoid Balor.

Yeah, except I care about manifestor levels.:smallwink: If I didn't I would take Metamind

Gralamin
2008-07-30, 09:45 PM
Yeah, except I care about manifestor levels.:smallwink: If I didn't I would take Metamind

Be a Kineticist, take Uncarnate. You are incorporeal and can carry weapons. Make a null Psionics zone around you. Since your incorporeal as a (Ex), you stay incorporeal, you have a physical weapon, and nothing can harm you. (Would need a (Ex) ability to attack incorporeal creatures).
But that might be too much cheese.

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 10:00 PM
Be a Kineticist, take Uncarnate. You are incorporeal and can carry weapons. Make a null Psionics zone around you. Since your incorporeal as a (Ex), you stay incorporeal, you have a physical weapon, and nothing can harm you. (Would need a (Ex) ability to attack incorporeal creatures).
But that might be too much cheese.

Except I am also a Warblade. I would negate half of my own class features as well.

Gralamin
2008-07-30, 10:03 PM
Except I am also a Warblade. I would negate half of my own class features as well.

You still have the ability to do fancy maneuvers while invincible, since most of your warblade abilities are (Ex) abilities.

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-30, 11:21 PM
You still have the ability to do fancy maneuvers while invincible, since most of your warblade abilities are (Ex) abilities.

I couldn't hold my weapon though.

Oh, anyone have any suggestions on what weapon I should use? I was thinking either a longsword or a bastard sword.

NEO|Phyte
2008-07-30, 11:23 PM
I couldn't hold my weapon though.

Ghostly Grasp, from Libris Mortis.

...or did that feat not work in AMFs either *wanders off to check*
:edit: Hmm, don't see anything to indicate that the feat is considered a supernatural ability.

ArmorArmadillo
2008-07-31, 01:01 AM
An interesting combo I found with a gestalt psion/warblade. It requires the Stormguard Warrior feat and the Egoist discipline.

First, you use your vast multitude of buffs.

You start with a 2 turn temporal acceleration. On the first TA turn, use fission to double yourself and then use a swift action to White Raven Tactics your clone. On your second TA turn, both you and your clone metamorphose into 12-headed hydra, and use White Raven Tactics on your clone. Once your actual turn starts, use a swift action to recover maneuvers and make a full attack action to Channel the Storm, making 12 touch attacks to gain a +60 to damage. Then, your clone takes it's turn, it should make it's own 12 touch attacks to gain a +60 on damage, and use a swift action to White Raven tactics you.
Use Time Stands Still to make two full attacks, for a total of 24 at full base attack, each dealing +60 damage on your base. Use your now recovered White Raven Tactics again on your clone.
On it's new turn, have it use Time Stands Still to also make 24 attacks at +60 damage, and it can throw in a Raging Mongoose for 4 more.

End Result: 52 Hydra Bite attacks at +60 Damage.


Oh, and take Planar Touchstone Oxyrhncus to get an extra 2 attacks whenever you can make multiple attacks.

If you're willing to splash in a level of monk, and tashalatora, you can do even more.

It's abusive, but it's level 18 Gestalt. You're going to have to be.

Emperor Tippy
2008-07-31, 02:06 AM
Well I can already recover all of my power points in under 14 minutes.

Actually quicker.

M=Me
MM=Fission Me

M 1: Manifest schism, Schism Manifests Fission, give MM my Torc of Power Preservation.
MM 1: Manifest Schism, Use White Raven Tactics on M, give back my Torc of Power Preservation.
M 1: Use White Raven Tactics on MM, Manifest Affinity Field, give MM my Torc of Power Preservation.
MM 1: Use Adaptive Style to recover WRT, Use WRT on M, Schism Manifest's Bestow Power on M.
M 1: Use Adaptive Style to recover WRT, Use WRT on MM.
MM 1: Use Adaptive Style to recover WRT, Use WRT on M, Schism Manifest's Bestow Power on M.
M 1: Use Adaptive Style to recover WRT, Use WRT on MM.

Repeat the last 2 steps until your PP are full.

Eskil
2008-07-31, 07:08 AM
I couldn't hold my weapon though.


Shed Body (Su)
Starting at 2nd level, a psion uncarnate can become incorporeal (or “uncarnate”) once per day as a standard action. The character can remain uncarnate for up to 1 minute. During this time, the character’s body fades into an immaterial form that retains the character’s basic likeness. While uncarnate, the character gains the incorporeal subtype (see below). He gains a fly speed equal to his land speed (perfect maneuverability). His material armor remains in place and continues to provide its armor bonus to AC (see Uncarnate Armor, above). His material weapons also remain corporeal. Losing his physical form allows the character to more easily access his mental abilities, and he gains a +1 bonus on all save DCs for powers he manifests while uncarnate.
He can use equipment normally, deriving benefits from items that enhance his capabilities; however, all his equipment remains material even when the character is uncarnate (but see the assume equipment ability, described below). ....


Boldening mine, on the part that says that, yes, you can in fact hold your weapon.

NEO|Phyte
2008-07-31, 09:40 AM
Boldening mine, on the part that says that, yes, you can in fact hold your weapon.

Note the (Su) part. They're talking about playing in an AMF/Null Psionics Field.

Eskil
2008-07-31, 12:56 PM
Note the (Su) part. They're talking about playing in an AMF/Null Psionics Field.



Be a Kineticist, take Uncarnate. You are incorporeal and can carry weapons. Make a null Psionics zone around you. Since your incorporeal as a (Ex), you stay incorporeal, you have a physical weapon, and nothing can harm you. (Would need a (Ex) ability to attack incorporeal creatures).
But that might be too much cheese.


Uncarnate (Ex)At 10th level, a psion uncarnate becomes a being of pure psionic consciousness. This ability is similar to shed body, except the character is permanently incorporeal (and gains that subtype). If the character desires, he can become corporeal once per day for up to 1 minute, but he spends the rest of his time as an entity of mind untethered by the physical world.


I assumed they were talking about the level 10 ability and that what separated it from Shed Body was the (Ex) and the permanent duration, with all else unchanged.

NEO|Phyte
2008-07-31, 01:05 PM
I assumed they were talking about the level 10 ability and that what separated it from Shed Body was the (Ex) and the permanent duration, with all else unchanged.

Don't worry, I assumed you were talking about Assume Equipment, even though the name of the ability was right next to the (Su) I pointed out.