Defense in Erfworld - Impossible?

[Occasional Sage]

From Parson's fourth Klog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html):

With a warlord... the group can choose to not initiate a fight.

So other than protecting cities, how does one go about setting up a defense in Erfworld? Normally you can find defensible choke points and load them with tough units, forcing attackers to spend beau coup resources to get through and hopefully causing enough delay that you can mobilize your backfield (or whatever). Instead, all that the attacker needs to do is stick a warlord in the stack and waltz right on through.

The only option I see Erfworld providing is an active defense, where you attack any stack that gets close; waiting to see if they are indeed an aggressor lets them essentially declare their intentions when they lay siege to your capitol.

Presumably there is another mechanism at work here, regarding territory or the designation of defensive units or... what? What prevents warlords from completely rewriting strategy as we know it?

[SteveMB]

From Parson's fourth Klog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html):


So other than protecting cities, how does one go about setting up a defense in Erfworld? Normally you can find defensible choke points and load them with tough units, forcing attackers to spend beau coup resources to get through and hopefully causing enough delay that you can mobilize your backfield (or whatever). Instead, all that the attacker needs to do is stick a warlord in the stack and waltz right on through.

The fact that a led stack can choose to not fight on contact with a non-allied stack doesn't necessarily give the ability to just continue on through. The dwagon raids could do that, but they were flyers against non-flyers -- if they'd encountered enemy flyers (as they normally would have if Ansom's air force wasn't off rescuing Jillian), things might have been different.

[Yogi]

Perhaps you need to fight for a bit before you can push on through. When discussing the "breakout" option for the Dwagon Doughnut, Ansom and Vinne mentioned sending tons of Bats at the Dwagons, meaning that while they can pass through, they can't do so without a fight.

With these kinds of rules, defenses would probably be centered more on the city itself, and in preemptive strikes to take out as much of the enemy as possible before he reaches the fortress.

[Occasional Sage]

The fact that a led stack can choose to not fight on contact with a non-allied stack doesn't necessarily give the ability to just continue on through. The dwagon raids could do that, but they were flyers against non-flyers -- if they'd encountered enemy flyers (as they normally would have if Ansom's air force wasn't off rescuing Jillian), things might have been different.

The problem with that answer is that a warlord-lead stack which chooses to not engage would then have to end its turn in the same hex as a non-allied stack. I don't think I've seen a game in which that is allowed, and Erf (while idiosyncratic) follows turn-based conventions in its design.

ETA: Klog 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html) suggests that enemy stacks can exist in the same hex, under some conditions, without interacting. Hmm. So if you can't pass freely, is the Warlord-lead stack then stuck in place? Can it only leave by returning to the hex from which it came, unless it engages? The suggestion for dealing with the Donut of Doom was to attack a stack of dwagons and then pass through to the other side and join Ansom....

[Ramien]

From Parson's fourth Klog (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html):


So other than protecting cities, how does one go about setting up a defense in Erfworld? Normally you can find defensible choke points and load them with tough units, forcing attackers to spend beau coup resources to get through and hopefully causing enough delay that you can mobilize your backfield (or whatever). Instead, all that the attacker needs to do is stick a warlord in the stack and waltz right on through.

The only option I see Erfworld providing is an active defense, where you attack any stack that gets close; waiting to see if they are indeed an aggressor lets them essentially declare their intentions when they lay siege to your capitol.

Presumably there is another mechanism at work here, regarding territory or the designation of defensive units or... what? What prevents warlords from completely rewriting strategy as we know it?
You missed the word 'adjacent' in your quote. A unled stack will attack any non-allies that will come adjacent to it. Any warlord that moves his stack into an enemy stack WILL start combat, which is where chokepoints come into play.

[Occasional Sage]

You missed the word 'adjacent' in your quote. A unled stack will attack any non-allies that will come adjacent to it. Any warlord that moves his stack into an enemy stack WILL start combat, which is where chokepoints come into play.

No; see for example Jillian et al finding the injured dwagons over the lake. They move into the hex and hang out, even touch an uncroaked warlord (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0073.html), without initiating combat.

[Zolem]

The problem with that answer is that a warlord-lead stack which chooses to not engage would then have to end its turn in the same hex as a non-allied stack. I don't think I've seen a game in which that is allowed, and Erf (while idiosyncratic) follows turn-based conventions in its design.

ETA: Klog 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html) suggests that enemy stacks can exist in the same hex, under some conditions, without interacting. Hmm. So if you can't pass freely, is the Warlord-lead stack then stuck in place? Can it only leave by returning to the hex from which it came, unless it engages? The suggestion for dealing with the Donut of Doom was to attack a stack of dwagons and then pass through to the other side and join Ansom....

Makes since. As long as you have flyers to block flyers (or some other unit with Block Flyers bility or something), they can't bypass your chokepoints, so they either retreat or engage.

[OnDroid]

No; see for example Jillian et al finding the injured dwagons over the lake. They move into the hex and hang out, even touch an uncroaked warlord (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0073.html), without initiating combat.

Maybe because both side HAD warlord that choose/was ordered not to attack. ( Jillian not willing to attack and uncroaked warlords ordered by Parson not to attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0072.html). )

[Occasional Sage]

Maybe because both side HAD warlord that choose/was ordered not to attack. ( Jillian not willing to attack and uncroaked warlords ordered by Parson not to attack (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0072.html). )

Ah, I'd forgotten Parson's order to hold back; that might account for it.

[Ben]

You missed the word 'adjacent' in your quote. A unled stack will attack any non-allies that will come adjacent to it. Any warlord that moves his stack into an enemy stack WILL start combat, which is where chokepoints come into play.

Actually, it says "Stacks without a leader are forced to autoattack when in contact with units from non-allied capitals." This doesn't matter much, unless a valid tactic later on is to send a single expendable unit (doombat, perhaps) next to a powerful but unled enemy stack to draw them out of position. Don't think that'd work, though, since as we've learned, units cannot move when it's not their turn.
Therefore, when a stack moves onto the same square as an enemy stack, each side, if it has a warlord, has the option not to initiate combat (otherwise, it just happens). The only way to move "through" without combat is for both sides to have a warlord who elects not to fight.

[OverWilliam]

How does the 'Garrison' mechanic come into play here? Under Bogroll's stats, it says his Move is (effectively) 0 because he is Garrisoned. Considering how so many different rulesets deal with garrisoning this could mean anything, and we're not likely to figure it out without being expressly told how it works, but could that have something to do with defense?

[SteveMB]

Therefore, when a stack moves onto the same square as an enemy stack, each side, if it has a warlord, has the option not to initiate combat (otherwise, it just happens). The only way to move "through" without combat is for both sides to have a warlord who elects not to fight.

Or, apparently, if the non-moving side lacks the ability to engage the moving side for some other reason (e.g. a flying stack versus non-archery ground units (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0052.html)).