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View Full Version : Feats/items that help Wizards be "spontaneous"



Thurbane
2008-08-06, 10:25 PM
Hi all,

I know of two feats (Alacritous Cogitation from CM, and Uncanny Forethought from EE) that allow a Wizard to keep spell slots open to cast spells spontaneously - does anyone know of other ways to allow a wizard to do similar?

Ponce
2008-08-06, 11:06 PM
Spontaneous Divination from Complete Champion. Lets a wizard sacrifice spell slots to cast any divination spell he knows of equal level. Actually, it is an alternate class feature, but it is taken in place of any one of the wizard bonus feats (at level 5, 10, 15, or 20). Great feat for all those situational divinations you've accumulated.

Frosty
2008-08-06, 11:11 PM
Best/most powerful ACF ever, that Spontaenous Divination.

Jack Mann
2008-08-06, 11:54 PM
Spontaneous Divination from Complete Champion. Lets a wizard sacrifice spell slots to cast any divination spell he knows of equal level. Actually, it is an alternate class feature, but it is taken in place of any one of the wizard bonus feats (at level 5, 10, 15, or 20). Great feat for all those situational divinations you've accumulated.

As written, he doesn't need to know the spell. Hell, as written, it doesn't even need to be a wizard spell. Extremely poorly worded.

Waspinator
2008-08-07, 12:15 AM
Well, one idea that I am a fan of is Pathfinder's change of making orisions and cantrips at-will abilities. Honestly, unlimited Prestidigitations is not going to ruin the game.

arguskos
2008-08-07, 12:18 AM
Well, one idea that I am a fan of is Pathfinder's change of making orisions and cantrips at-will abilities. Honestly, unlimited Prestidigitations is not going to ruin the game.
I run my D&D games with this as a houserule, and found out that Cure Minor Wounds is annoying. Sure, it's 1 HP at a time, so it doesn't come up when pressed for time, but if you like a game where wounds don't auto-regrow rapidly, then you will be annoyed with CMW. My suggestion? Go with at-will 0th levels, but scratch Cure Minor.

-argus

Waspinator
2008-08-07, 12:32 AM
Pathfinder actually has a fix for that. They replaced Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds with a spell that stops death by bleeding at negative HP (Stabilize) and one that causes a stable person at negative HP to start bleeding again (Bleed).

Also, you still "prepare" a limited number of 0-level spells as a wizard or cleric, but anything that's currently prepared has unlimited uses. So, if you have Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mage Hand, and Prestidigitation prepared, you can use any of those unlimited times per day at-will. If you want Disrupt Undead or something, you need to swap it in next time you prepare spells and then it gains unlimited use per day.

The other problem though is Psionics. It doesn't have 0-level powers and not all 1 PP powers are equivalent to a cantrip. You might have to just go through the list manually and choose one-by-one a few to make free to use, like Detect Psionics.

Tempest Fennac
2008-08-07, 02:05 AM
If you limit Spontaneous Divination to Wizard spells, is it that bad? Also, is it that broken if you allow other spells as well to be cast using it?

Dhavaer
2008-08-07, 05:11 AM
Signature Spell allows you to lose a prepared spell in exchange for a particular mastered spell. The Magelord prestige class applies this feat to all your mastered spells.

Telonius
2008-08-07, 07:55 AM
Hmm. "Greater Anyspell" is a 6th-level Spell Domain spell from Forgotten Realms. UMD a Scroll of that. If you can get a Wizard to somehow have access to casting it normally, you've got it made.

EDIT: And, that feat would be: Alternative Spell Source, from Dragon325, p. 61. It's even a Metamagic feat, so you could use one of your Wizard bonus feats to get it. Only requirement is that you would need one level of Cleric, Druid, or some other divine full-casting class. (Ranger and Paladin won't cut it, you need to actually be able to cast divine spells). The wording of the feat is a little fuzzy about whether or not you have to actually be able to cast the divine or arcane spell in question, in order to prepare it.

Jack Mann
2008-08-07, 09:27 AM
If you limit Spontaneous Divination to Wizard spells, is it that bad? Also, is it that broken if you allow other spells as well to be cast using it?

At the least, it needs to be limited to spells the character knows. Even then it's really good.

John Campbell
2008-08-07, 10:44 AM
There's always the straightforward method of just using wands and scrolls to expand your available spell selection. Wizards even get free feats for making them.

Ashdate
2008-08-07, 08:59 PM
The Mage of the Arcane Order prestige class is kind of like casting spontaneously. Sure you require a full round to actually 'get' the spell, but you also can pick from well, anything the GM will let you pick from. Plus uh, bonus languages?

- Eddie

ZekeArgo
2008-08-07, 09:03 PM
MiC = Runestaves. Get em, use em, love em.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-08, 01:03 PM
The "Spell Pool" for a MotAO or a Guild Wizard of Waterdeep. Two PRCs should allow double pool access.

An extra feat for the Nexus Method feat or Arcane Disiple feat for the Summoning domain to summon creatures with Spell like abilities.

Ring of Theurgy from Complete Arcane.

L17+ Arcane Disiple Luck Domain with Arch Mage High Arcana to cast No Experience Arcane Miracles 2/day in addition to the bonus domain Miracle.

The Great Elixir from FRCS Shining South.

Edit: Some of the Specialist Variants: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm

Abjurer spontaneous Dispel and Conjurer Summoning.

Feats like Magical Training which can provide some limited cantrip casting.

Elemental Adept feat.

Additional Magic Items feat (Rings) for Rings of Theurgy.

Waspinator
2008-08-10, 05:20 PM
MiC = Runestaves. Get em, use em, love em.

Yeah, those are awesome. Those and Eternal Wands.

Greg
2008-08-10, 05:53 PM
Spell mastery allows some spells to be cast at will. Can you select spells for spell mastery that are modified by metamagic feats?

monty
2008-08-10, 05:57 PM
Spell mastery allows some spells to be cast at will. Can you select spells for spell mastery that are modified by metamagic feats?

Spell mastery lets you prepare spells without using a book, not cast them at will.

If you want spontaneity, pick up Signature Spell (Silent Image) and Heighten Spell and go into Shadowcraft Mage. Basically lets you cast Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spontaneously at the level of your choice.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-10, 08:02 PM
Spell mastery lets you prepare spells without using a book, not cast them at will.

If you want spontaneity, pick up Signature Spell (Silent Image) and Heighten Spell and go into Shadowcraft Mage. Basically lets you cast Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spontaneously at the level of your choice.Guide is here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556) IIRC, it ends up with 150% real "illusions" of 9th-level spells cast out of 7th level slots, if you try hard enough. It's great for a Beguiler, who gets the Illusion school, Enchantment school, Evocation school, and the Conjuration school spontaneously with that, as well as casting in armor, more HP, and a bunch of skill points. Sorcerer, eat your heart out.

Maerok
2008-08-10, 09:42 PM
As written, he doesn't need to know the spell. Hell, as written, it doesn't even need to be a wizard spell. Extremely poorly worded.

CChamp is like that. Never really liked it. At any given point it seems: a) overpowered, b)badly written, or c)some combination thereof.

Curmudgeon
2008-08-10, 10:57 PM
Well, one idea that I am a fan of is Pathfinder's change of making orisions and cantrips at-will abilities. Honestly, unlimited Prestidigitations is not going to ruin the game.
Maybe it is, if the mage just sets up shop in the town square to clean things for cash. Or look at Purify Food and Drink for a Cleric:
Target: 1 cu. ft./level of contaminated food and water

This spell makes spoiled, rotten, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated food and water pure and suitable for eating and drinking.
With common meals going for 1 sp each, a single casting will crank out maybe 10 meals/level. That's 1 gp/round every single round at first level, which is plenty of money to hire laborers to fetch garbage by the wagonload, collect money, and serve the purified former garbage. With unlimited orisons, there's just no need to ever go adventuring when you can become wealthy in a hurry, making 4,800 gp each day (minus less than 100 gp for labor and overhead) just casting a single spell for 8 hours.

Tempest Fennac
2008-08-13, 08:22 AM
Just thinking about spontaneous cantrips: wouldn't infinite Ghost Sound potentially be as much of a problem as infinite Cure Minor Wounds?

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-13, 05:14 PM
Just thinking about spontaneous cantrips: wouldn't infinite Ghost Sound potentially be as much of a problem as infinite Cure Minor Wounds?

Paizo doesn't let you have infinite Cure Minor Wounds as a cantrip. ((A nice fix might have been to increase the casting time to an hour).

Waspinator
2008-08-13, 05:37 PM
Maybe it is, if the mage just sets up shop in the town square to clean things for cash. Or look at Purify Food and Drink for a Cleric:
With common meals going for 1 sp each, a single casting will crank out maybe 10 meals/level. That's 1 gp/round every single round at first level, which is plenty of money to hire laborers to fetch garbage by the wagonload, collect money, and serve the purified former garbage. With unlimited orisons, there's just no need to ever go adventuring when you can become wealthy in a hurry, making 4,800 gp each day (minus less than 100 gp for labor and overhead) just casting a single spell for 8 hours.

Of course, if enough clerics do that long enough, they're logically going to have an impact on the economy and lower the value of the meals they're serving.

Jack_Simth
2008-08-13, 05:38 PM
Paizo doesn't let you have infinite Cure Minor Wounds as a cantrip. ((A nice fix might have been to increase the casting time to an hour).
Curiously, Infinite Cure Minor Wounds doesn't actually break the game.

Seriously - the biggest current limit on party endurance in 3.5 (past about 3rd or 4th level, anyway) is spell slots. With a Wand of Cure Minor Wounds (or better, Lesser Vigor) marketing at a mere 750 gp, it's not usually the Rogue or Fighter that call a halt to rest - it's the Wizard or Cleric. Limitless Cure Minor Wounds... doesn't change much in actual play.


Of course, if enough clerics do that long enough, they're logically going to have an impact on the economy and lower the value of the meals they're serving.
Or increase the value of the garbage they're buying.

Kaihaku
2008-08-13, 06:14 PM
Among the Specialist Wizard Variants in Unearthed Arcana, the Adjurer gets spontaneous dispel magic.

Someone already mentioned the Spell Mastery, Signature Spell, waw waw.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-13, 06:37 PM
Curiously, Infinite Cure Minor Wounds doesn't actually break the game.


I agree the concern was that Infinite Cure Minor meant the party could always be at 100% with a little time. The designers don't have a problem with taking a dip for Fast Healing 1 to 50% like with a Dragon Shaman but No Freebie Healing after that.:smallcool:

Jack_Simth
2008-08-13, 06:59 PM
I agree the concern was that Infinite Cure Minor meant the party could always be at 100% with a little time. The designers don't have a problem with taking a dip for Fast Healing 1 to 50% like with a Dragon Shaman but No Freebie Healing after that.:smallcool:
There are ways to get it - they're just not Core.

Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell) Mass Lesser Vigor can give the entire party fast healing 1 for 24 hours, repeatable daily - at 5th level, if the Cleric invests in it that heavily.

A few levels in Warshaper grants some fast healing while in a form other than your natural one - great for a changeling meatshield, who's basically never in a natural form (it's not so good for casters, though, as it doesn't advance spellcasting).

The Vampiric weapon property (Magic item compendium) does actual healing for the attacker on every successful hit. A +1 Vampiric Dagger, passed around the party, and a full caster with the Summon Elemental Reserve feat (Complete Arcane) means you can slaughter poor summoned elementals at whim, and use them for self-healing - with no limit other than time and DM wrath.

CASTLEMIKE
2008-08-13, 07:29 PM
My guess is the designer concern was 100% full hit point healing should have a cost besides time and a Cleric - 1+.

Curmudgeon
2008-08-14, 04:53 AM
Curiously, Infinite Cure Minor Wounds doesn't actually break the game.
Essentially free anything will break any system in which it appears. Right now we've got essentially free e-mail, and about 87% of all the e-mail sent now is easily identifiable as spam/viruses/other badness -- and that's just the percentage filtered out along the way. End users still grumble about the amount of junk that slips through those filters.

I played in a single game in which the DM allowed infinite cantrips and orisons. My low-level Cleric flooded an underground burrow with thousands of castings of Create Water, forcing the inhabitants to flee from drowning to where we ambushed them. It turned a scary dungeon into an easy win. I actually made that DM cry! (And we never had infinite level 0 spells after that.)

Caewil
2008-08-14, 06:07 AM
A thousand castings would have taken 1000 rounds. Approximately one and a half hours. Assuming the burrow was watertight. How did the damn monsters not notice?

Jack_Simth
2008-08-14, 06:24 AM
Essentially free anything will break any system in which it appears. Right now we've got essentially free e-mail, and about 87% of all the e-mail sent now is easily identifiable as spam/viruses/other badness -- and that's just the percentage filtered out along the way. End users still grumble about the amount of junk that slips through those filters.

I played in a single game in which the DM allowed infinite cantrips and orisons. My low-level Cleric flooded an underground burrow with thousands of castings of Create Water, forcing the inhabitants to flee from drowning to where we ambushed them. It turned a scary dungeon into an easy win. I actually made that DM cry! (And we never had infinite level 0 spells after that.)

... There's about 7.5 gallons per cubic foot. Assuming you were 5th level, that's ten gallons per casting. A single five-foot cube of dungeon space (5*5*5) is 125 cubic feet, or about 937.5 gallons. One five-foot cube will require approximately 93.75 castings to fill. A 20x20 room with a ten-foot ceiling has 32 five-foot cubes in it, requiring 3,000 castings to fill. If you have ten such rooms in the dungeon, you need 30,000 castings, requiring 50 hours of continuous casting. Oh yeah - that's ignoring hallways, and assuming the dungeon is water-tight - and the dungeon will not generally be water-tight, as water-tight dungeons get flooded and stay that way from mundane rain. Quite bluntly, your DM only cried because he a) can't do the math for how incredibly long it would take, and b) didn't realize most dungeons must have a lot of drainage just due to normal rain.

Besides - you can do this without infinite cantrips, as a Decanter of Endless Water can spit out 30 gallons a round, equivalent to a 15th level caster with Create Water at will.

Waspinator
2008-08-14, 08:31 PM
A few solutions for the DM:

1: The dungeon may not be watertight. The water could flow into underground streams and not flood the place.

2: The enemies would notice the water before it reached "Run away! We're drowning!" levels. If they're at all smart, they'll form up into a big group and go kill the jerk trying to kill them.

3: Change the environment. The real enemies, it turns out, were not in that dungeon but were in a tower or something else that you can't flood from the bottom.

4: Change the type of enemies. If the players don't know ahead of time what's supposed to be in there, just change it to something aquatic. If they do know, it just so happens that the lair of this group of goblins was recently taken over by murlocs. They were having trouble filling their new swimming pool and they're so happy that you helped them that they're making you dinner. As in, they're going to eat you for dinner and then go swimming.

FMArthur
2008-08-14, 10:31 PM
I don't know... unlimited Prestidigitation would be DM hell for PCs in a town, wouldn't it? They'd soil everyone's pants, put graffiti everywhere, make all water and food taste like awful to start brawls over food quality, and basically be pains in the ass. It kind of reinforces my feeling that in a D&D world, every town should be blanketed in anti-magic fields at all times. Like, you can't even think about starting an establishment if you don't have access to AMFs.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-08-14, 10:35 PM
Even that's not necessary. Prestidigitation lasts an hour, so they can do that as much as they want even without it at-will.

arguskos
2008-08-14, 10:38 PM
Even that's not necessary. Prestidigitation lasts an hour, so they can do that as much as they want even without it at-will.
Besides, any NPC Wizard 1 in that town could just use his Prestidigtation at-will to clean up the PC, creating a cantrip-war.

-argus

FMArthur
2008-08-14, 10:53 PM
Oops. I forgot about its lasting time. The rarity of AMFs probably means that magic would be illegal in most cities without special permits.

Jack_Simth
2008-08-14, 11:10 PM
It kind of reinforces my feeling that in a D&D world, every town should be blanketed in anti-magic fields at all times. Like, you can't even think about starting an establishment if you don't have access to AMFs.Slight problem: Then you have very little in the way of defense against melee brutes with meaningful DR.

Irreverent Fool
2008-08-15, 01:13 AM
Slight problem: Then you have very little in the way of defense against melee brutes with meaningful DR.

And this detracts from a fantasy atmosphere how?

Jack_Simth
2008-08-15, 06:09 AM
And this detracts from a fantasy atmosphere how?
Because then it doesn't make much sense at all to still have a town in areas where wild melee brutes exist.